Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

antoobrien

eire.man wrote: »

the level of public support for what we're doing is huge!!

Really - every time i pass it there's nobody around (usually a Saturday afternoon).

Maybe we can test the theory with a poll: do you support the o.g. movement and their aims.

We'll even give o.g. another chance to publish its aims (something that's been asked for dozens of times on this thread, but strangely not answered).

eire.man

antoobrien wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

the level of public support for what we're doing is huge!!

Really - every time i pass it there's nobody around (usually a Saturday afternoon).

Maybe we can test the theory with a poll: do you support the o.g. movement and their aims.

We'll even give o.g. another chance to publish its aims (something that's been asked for dozens of times on this thread, but strangely not answered).

poll already ran on galwaynews.ie and occupy won that one, sure why dont we do another but here doesnt represent the full public

it always makes me lol when i hear people say i walk by regularly amd what i see in those few seconds is the way the camp is 24 hours a day 7 days a week!! dont make me sick

prech101

One thing the OWS movement has done

income inequality - is now back on the lips of most! Not so b4 OWS.

Wompa1

prech101 wrote: »

One thing the OWS movement has done

income inequality - is now back on the lips of most! Not so b4 OWS.

That's true. That's the part I thought was important and then it got muddied

eire.man

Wompa1 wrote: »

prech101 wrote: »

One thing the OWS movement has done

income inequality - is now back on the lips of most! Not so b4 OWS.

That's true. That's the part I thought was important and then it got muddied

ya, once people start to wake up they see this **** goes deeper and farther than we still even know, the elite are running around setting us all up and all the while they're enjoying perk after major perk at the tax payers expense!!

there's flipping bonuses paid for stupidity and failure these days!! Come on, I'd like to think if i tried pulling stunts like our politicians, big business, big pharma, banks, investment banks, etc that I would recieve a swift smack in the jaw and was told to cop on, at which point it would be great if i did and then we'd have no more of it,

it could really be that simple if we all literally ganged up on the powers that be, they won't change until we fcuking well force it upon them!!

I'm ****ed for work for since 2009 because of their bull$hit!!

I've had enough

antoobrien

eire.man wrote: »

poll already ran on galwaynews.ie and occupy won that one, sure why dont we do another but here doesnt represent the full public

Funny, that's the first I heard of galway news doing polls, however when I looked, there it is way at the bottom part of the page where I never look.


Funny though, when I see there are 46% of the people that voted who think that the camp should be removed, the support isn't as overwhalming as you seem to beleive.

eire.man wrote: »

it always makes me lol when i hear people say i walk by regularly amd what i see in those few seconds is the way the camp is 24 hours a day 7 days a week!! dont make me sick

It makes me lol I come on here to see this crap but I never, ever hear anybody say anything good about the camp.

Wompa1

eire.man wrote: »

ya, once people start to wake up they see this **** goes deeper and farther than we still even know, the elite are running around setting us all up and all the while they're enjoying perk after major perk at the tax payers expense!!

there's flipping bonuses paid for stupidity and failure these days!! Come on, I'd like to think if i tried pulling stunts like our politicians, big business, big pharma, banks, investment banks, etc that I would recieve a swift smack in the jaw and was told to cop on, at which point it would be great if i did and then we'd have no more of it,

it could really be that simple if we all literally ganged up on the powers that be, they won't change until we fcuking well force it upon them!!

I'm ****ed for work for since 2009 because of their bull$hit!!

I've had enough

From what I can tell and I'm no expert. The recession in this country has been caused by incompetent bankers, corrupt politicians, careless public spending (including welfare) and foolish citizens living beyond their means.

Also, I think our bubble was going to burst regardless. Maybe not as quickly as it did but we were living on borrowed time. The cost of living, expected salary and operation costs were going up in this country and cheaper places with equally qualified resources were entering the euro zone. Why would companies keep jobs like manufacturing in Ireland when they could move it to Hungary or Poland for a fraction of the price?

Is it the governments fault the living costs went up so dramatically here? I'd say only partly. They did pass legislation to increase minimum wage and introduce some unpopular measures like that bogus parking charges but overall it's just the way things go. The better the standard of living here, the more people that will want to move here, the more people that want to move here, the more demand for goods and services, then all of a sudden there's demand for houses, house and rent prices go up, insurance goes up, Then the government has to increase minimum wage to offset the increase in living costs etc. etc.

If you are after a job in this country any more I would say try a course in IT, Mechanical Engineering or BioMed. Those jobs have so far survived...so far

Testament1

eire.man wrote: »

I'm ****ed for work for since 2009 because of their bull$hit!!

What line of work were you in if you don't mind me asking?

eire.man

antoobrien wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

poll already ran on galwaynews.ie and occupy won that one, sure why dont we do another but here doesnt represent the full public

Funny though, when I see there are 46% of the people that voted who think that the camp should be removed, the support isn't as overwhalming as you seem to beleive.

its far more than some people on here would give us credit for...

im delighted to know half the people are with us in a poll, that's a lot of people clued in )

hippygran

antoobrien wrote: »

But then:




So the original terms have expired (and did so in 2004), so why wouldn't they apply to Corrib?


Can you actually point me to the terms you claim are active are will you just waffle on, making it clear(er) that you don't know what you're talking about?

No, I won't point you to anything. It doesn't matter what I say because you will counter everything with arguments and sarcastic comments regardless, as you have with everything and anything for the couple of months that I have been following this thread. This is not something that I, personally, have just pulled out of thin air. It is something that has been said repeatedly by various TD's, journalists, protest groups and authors of books on the subject. I don't know all the ins and outs, if you want to know, look it up.

eire.man

Testament1 wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

I'm ****ed for work for since 2009 because of their bull$hit!!

What line of work were you in if you don't mind me asking?

I'm not going to divulge what i was doing exactly but what i will say is i was very very busy from mid 2005 up until mar 2009, which in hindsight was just 2 months b4 the country was officially in recession

most businesses drying up directly relates to the collapse of the global ponzi scheme that the banks, governments were directly involved in and the gains from these schemes/scams filtered right down the food chain and the lower to medium paid working person got cheap credit to buy inflated properties, deadly!!

yes massa, thank you massa

these bubbles and crashes have been shown to be well orchestrated since the wall st crash in the early 1900's amd that some are so well organised and privy to insider info that they'll make money no matter which way the wind blows

I'm convinced they all knew well what they were doing each and every step along the way, and if they want us to believe they never seen this coming then they really should never have been in any position of power in the first place

eire.man

Wompa1 wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

ya, once people start to wake up they see this **** goes deeper and farther than we still even know, the elite are running around setting us all up and all the while they're enjoying perk after major perk at the tax payers expense!!

there's flipping bonuses paid for stupidity and failure these days!! Come on, I'd like to think if i tried pulling stunts like our politicians, big business, big pharma, banks, investment banks, etc that I would recieve a swift smack in the jaw and was told to cop on, at which point it would be great if i did and then we'd have no more of it,

it could really be that simple if we all literally ganged up on the powers that be, they won't change until we fcuking well force it upon them!!

I'm ****ed for work for since 2009 because of their bull$hit!!

I've had enough

From what I can tell and I'm no expert. The recession in this country has been caused by incompetent bankers, corrupt politicians, careless public spending (including welfare) and foolish citizens living beyond their means.

Also, I think our bubble was going to burst regardless. Maybe not as quickly as it did but we were living on borrowed time. The cost of living, expected salary and operation costs were going up in this country and cheaper places with equally qualified resources were entering the euro zone. Why would companies keep jobs like manufacturing in Ireland when they could move it to Hungary or Poland for a fraction of the price?

Is it the governments fault the living costs went up so dramatically here? I'd say only partly. They did pass legislation to increase minimum wage and introduce some unpopular measures like that bogus parking charges but overall it's just the way things go. The better the standard of living here, the more people that will want to move here, the more people that want to move here, the more demand for goods and services, then all of a sudden there's demand for houses, house and rent prices go up, insurance goes up, Then the government has to increase minimum wage to offset the increase in living costs etc. etc.

If you are after a job in this country any more I would say try a course in IT, Mechanical Engineering or BioMed. Those jobs have so far survived...so far

i couldn't agree more with your first paragraph but then you seem to be overcome with severe stockholm syndrome after that,

please note i am in no way trying to insult you by saying so because I often find myself going the same way, thinking "they can't be that fcuking evil to actually have done this, (denied cervical cancer jabs that cost 20m but a few weeks later they had 50m for dodgy pig!!) said that (bertie telling those non-believers to hang themselves or frank fahy still trying to tell people there's never been a better time to buy properties while we were in recession!!) or try to completely pull the wool over our eyes" (we are not talking to the IMF, we've turned a corner etc) and they really did!, so,

why should I be standing up for or sharing the blame for blatantly corrupt fcukers who leeched and cut down anyone who stood in their way instead of leading and playing fair.

I mean how much evidence do we need b4 we hold these people to account?? The streets are ours you know, if we want change we have to take to our streets and they'll soon listen when they see numbers, either that or put these "elitists" on minimum/average wages and see how quick things turn around for everyone*

* by everyone I mean 100% of us, nobody left behind anymore!!

if you want answers then come on down to camp and we'll all try come up with them together

Wompa1

eire.man wrote: »

i couldn't agree more with your first paragraph but then you seem to be overcome with severe stockholm syndrome after that,

please note i am in no way trying to insult you by saying so because I often find myself going the same way, thinking "they can't be that fcuking evil to actually have done this, (denied cervical cancer jabs that cost 20m but a few weeks later they had 50m for dodgy pig!!) said that (bertie telling those non-believers to hang themselves or frank fahy still trying to tell people there's never been a better time to buy properties while we were in recession!!) or try to completely pull the wool over our eyes" (we are not talking to the IMF, we've turned a corner etc) and they really did!, so,

why should I be standing up for or sharing the blame for blatantly corrupt fcukers who leeched and cut down anyone who stood in their way instead of leading and playing fair.

I mean how much evidence do we need b4 we hold these people to account?? The streets are ours you know, if we want change we have to take to our streets and they'll soon listen when they see numbers, either that or put these "elitists" on minimum/average wages and see how quick things turn around for everyone*

* by everyone I mean 100% of us, nobody left behind anymore!!

if you want answers then come on down to camp and we'll all try come up with them together

It's a democracy. We vote, we contact our representatives, run for office ourselves etc. Who should we hold to account right now? The majority of offenders were in the past couple of governments regimes.

The new regime is in it's first year of power and seem to be trying to make changes. Are the changes they are trying to make not dramatic enough or too dramatic. I'm confused as to what it is you think should be changed?

A lot of people seem to think the government needs to cut spending but once they try to cut social welfare, research funding etc. People get up in arms about that. Does the Occupy Galway camp have their own manifesto or anything with a list of changes they would bring in which would still cut the expenditure and maintain a good quality of life for the people? I'd love to see it.

Reillyman

eire.man wrote: »

I mean how much evidence do we need b4 we hold these people to account?? The streets are ours you know, if we want change we have to take to our streets and they'll soon listen when they see numbers, either that or put these "elitists" on minimum/average wages and see how quick things turn around for everyone*

* by everyone I mean 100% of us, nobody left behind anymore!!

I just can't understand why OG can't understand this point. What would happen if you put high-ranking civil servants on minimum wage? I'll tell you, they'll say "f*ck off! I'll just go and work for a private company," except the wealthy who could afford to work for minimum wage, so then what you'd have is all the top jobs occupied by the wealthy. Understand?

eire.man

Reillyman wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

I mean how much evidence do we need b4 we hold these people to account?? The streets are ours you know, if we want change we have to take to our streets and they'll soon listen when they see numbers, either that or put these "elitists" on minimum/average wages and see how quick things turn around for everyone*

* by everyone I mean 100% of us, nobody left behind anymore!!

I just can't understand why OG can't understand this point. What would happen if you put high-ranking civil servants on minimum wage? I'll tell you, they'll say "f*ck off! I'll just go and work for a private company," except the wealthy who could afford to work for minimum wage, so then what you'd have is all the top jobs occupied by the wealthy. Understand?

yes cos there's so many private companies hiring at the minute you could just walk out of one job and right into another?

if they did leave maybe someone more qualified and who's currently unemployed may get the job for more competitive pay

eire.man

Wompa1 wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

i couldn't agree more with your first paragraph but then you seem to be overcome with severe stockholm syndrome after that,

please note i am in no way trying to insult you by saying so because I often find myself going the same way, thinking "they can't be that fcuking evil to actually have done this, (denied cervical cancer jabs that cost 20m but a few weeks later they had 50m for dodgy pig!!) said that (bertie telling those non-believers to hang themselves or frank fahy still trying to tell people there's never been a better time to buy properties while we were in recession!!) or try to completely pull the wool over our eyes" (we are not talking to the IMF, we've turned a corner etc) and they really did!, so,

why should I be standing up for or sharing the blame for blatantly corrupt fcukers who leeched and cut down anyone who stood in their way instead of leading and playing fair.

I mean how much evidence do we need b4 we hold these people to account?? The streets are ours you know, if we want change we have to take to our streets and they'll soon listen when they see numbers, either that or put these "elitists" on minimum/average wages and see how quick things turn around for everyone*

* by everyone I mean 100% of us, nobody left behind anymore!!

if you want answers then come on down to camp and we'll all try come up with them together

It's a democracy. We vote, we contact our representatives, run for office ourselves etc. Who should we hold to account right now? The majority of offenders were in the past couple of governments regimes.

The new regime is in it's first year of power and seem to be trying to make changes. Are the changes they are trying to make not dramatic enough or too dramatic. I'm confused as to what it is you think should be changed?

A lot of people seem to think the government needs to cut spending but once they try to cut social welfare, research funding etc. People get up in arms about that. Does the Occupy Galway camp have their own manifesto or anything with a list of changes they would bring in which would still cut the expenditure and maintain a good quality of life for the people? I'd love to see it.

there's plenty of examples of the current government looking after themselves and their friends, we voted them in and they're cheatin us right in front of our eyes

Reillyman

eire.man wrote: »

yes cos there's so many private companies hiring at the minute you could just walk out of one job and right into another?

if they did leave maybe someone more qualified and who's currently unemployed may get the job for more competitive pay

So you only want the current employees to work for the min wage, anyone replacing them can get a competitive wage?

eire.man

Reillyman wrote: »

eire.man wrote: »

yes cos there's so many private companies hiring at the minute you could just walk out of one job and right into another?

if they did leave maybe someone more qualified and who's currently unemployed may get the job for more competitive pay

So you only want the current employees to work for the min wage, anyone replacing them can get a competitive wage?

no, but some of the pay deals are a bit ott and even some newly appointed examples where the pay cap has been pushed aside for the lads

prech101

Wompa. "It's a democracy. We vote, we contact our representatives, run for office ourselves etc. Who should we hold to account right now? The majority of offenders were in the past couple of governments regimes."

Agreed it is a democracy and we should vote! (I always do, people lost their lives for your right to vote). Hares the problem though, there is no difference between the main political parties in Ireland. As long as they keep on taking money from the big businesses in Ireland and in return representing their interests above the people. Who do you think lobbied for dereg of builders industry, banks, look what happened there?
We Need money out of politics!!

Reillyman – why do you leap to putting them on min wage. We are a small nation trying to hold our own in big world. Question, why do we pay our civil servants more than the Germans do, are our guys doing a better job. I also don’t buy the line that if you reduce some of the higher earners they well up tents (pardon the pun) and leave. This is scare mongering with no proof to back up these claims. Plus, what’s wrong with getting some new blood in, at lower costs; offer me 80K to run a section in govt, no probs!!
We need investment in infrastructure, energy, which reminds me, “The Spirit of Ireland project” This seemed like a complete no brainer to me, why is this stalled, and why is Govt no behind this driving it on!! Can’t be that much red tape for that amount of time!!

biko

eire.man has been given a timeout for uncivil posting.
It is my intention to have this thread open for the duration of the protest. That can change.

For Forks Sake

eire.man wrote: »

yes cos there's so many private companies hiring at the minute you could just walk out of one job and right into another?

I know 5 people who've changed company this month of their own volition. (IT sales + marketing sector)

prech101

biko wrote: »

eire.man has been given a timeout for uncivil posting.
It is my intention to have this thread open for the duration of the protest. That can change.

He did tend to get a bit hot under the collar :)

But at least he shows some passion about a subject which affects all.
eire.man, use this time to calm down and put your points across in a calm logical manner, you are just going to have to accept not everybody agrees with you and some may disagree with the same amount of vigour you show for it.

People need to be educated with he big picture in mind not just Irelands current probs as all these(most) spawn from international practices/pressure and pure greed.

check out this doc (made by RTE!!, don't think it was ever shown due to anit american claims made so soon after 9/11) BOTTLED IT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c&feature=share

people power does work!!

Robbo

prech101 wrote: »

We need investment in infrastructure, energy, which reminds me, “The Spirit of Ireland project” This seemed like a complete no brainer to me, why is this stalled, and why is Govt no behind this driving it on!! Can’t be that much red tape for that amount of time!!

The same Spirit of Ireland project that involved flooding many valleys in order to create reservoirs? We're not China so therefore there might be a little red tape involved given that you're going to be dicking with a lot of countryfolks constitutional rights. That's before the ecological effects are thought about.

I'd put my money on that Steorn crowd with the perpetual motion machine, that seems a safer bet.

prech101 wrote: »

check out this doc (made by RTE!!, don't think it was ever shown due to anit american claims made so soon after 9/11) BOTTLED IT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c&feature=share

people power does work!!

Television
Chávez: Inside the Coup aired on RTÉ One on 18 February 2003, as an installment of the channel's True Lives documentary series. The broadcast prompted a passionate public and critical response, and "lively debate" on radio and in newspapers; RTÉ soon arranged for a repeat broadcast.[16]

Wompa1

prech101 wrote: »

Wompa. "It's a democracy. We vote, we contact our representatives, run for office ourselves etc. Who should we hold to account right now? The majority of offenders were in the past couple of governments regimes."

Agreed it is a democracy and we should vote! (I always do, people lost their lives for your right to vote). Hares the problem though, there is no difference between the main political parties in Ireland. As long as they keep on taking money from the big businesses in Ireland and in return representing their interests above the people. Who do you think lobbied for dereg of builders industry, banks, look what happened there?
We Need money out of politics!!

Reillyman – why do you leap to putting them on min wage. We are a small nation trying to hold our own in big world. Question, why do we pay our civil servants more than the Germans do, are our guys doing a better job. I also don’t buy the line that if you reduce some of the higher earners they well up tents (pardon the pun) and leave. This is scare mongering with no proof to back up these claims. Plus, what’s wrong with getting some new blood in, at lower costs; offer me 80K to run a section in govt, no probs!!
We need investment in infrastructure, energy, which reminds me, “The Spirit of Ireland project” This seemed like a complete no brainer to me, why is this stalled, and why is Govt no behind this driving it on!! Can’t be that much red tape for that amount of time!!

Then wouldn't it seem like as a democracy if anybody had the character to run on the basis that they would eliminate money from politics they could and we'd vote for them? Does that person exist right now? Is there possibly a figurehead in the Occupy Camp who could run for power? Or does everybody have skeletons in their closet? Or is it possible that even if such a person existed the current shower of sh!ts would still win because the majority of voters have received some sort of kick back from their local representatives. I don't mean money. I mean we'll sort you out with trying sort you out with an drink license, Here's that planning permission you were turned down, here's your cushy civil servant job for your brat son....it's not what you know, it's who you know. I remember growing up and hearing snide remarks about planning permission being granted to some because of their political alliance and the local council workers and the like all having their sons working with them when they are 16 to get the foot in the door knowing it's a soft job for life. But if that were true then the whole 99% concept is shot to sh!t

Wompa1

prech101 wrote: »

He did tend to get a bit hot under the collar :)

But at least he shows some passion about a subject which affects all.
eire.man, use this time to calm down and put your points across in a calm logical manner, you are just going to have to accept not everybody agrees with you and some may disagree with the same amount of vigour you show for it.

People need to be educated with he big picture in mind not just Irelands current probs as all these(most) spawn from international practices/pressure and pure greed.

check out this doc (made by RTE!!, don't think it was ever shown due to anit american claims made so soon after 9/11) BOTTLED IT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c&feature=share

people power does work!!

It was pulled for being Anti-American or just inaccurate? I can't remember them saying it was pulled for being Anti-American...I can remember when it came out and there was backlash on both sides between each other (Chavez and the TV Company) but that's all I remember.

Just read the Wikipedia link provided above. Looks like the documentary was heavily discredited and by the sounds of things was possibly even a form of propaganda itself. I've also thought people who make documentaries should have to release the unedited videos from them too, it sounds like the two guys involved got very creative with editing. That's Ironic considering the reason for the film in the first place. Kind of embarrassing that some of the funding for that movie may have come from our TV License...I think we should be the one's signing a petition

prech101

Robbo wrote: »

The same Spirit of Ireland project that involved flooding many valleys in order to create reservoirs? We're not China so therefore there might be a little red tape involved given that you're going to be dicking with a lot of countryfolks constitutional rights. That's before the ecological effects are thought about.

I'd put my money on that Steorn crowd with the perpetual motion machine, that seems a safer bet.

Television
Chávez: Inside the Coup aired on RTÉ One on 18 February 2003, as an installment of the channel's True Lives documentary series. The broadcast prompted a passionate public and critical response, and "lively debate" on radio and in newspapers; RTÉ soon arranged for a repeat broadcast.[16]

Robbo - that’s not how understand the project. From what I researched it seems Ireland is suited to such a endeavour plus population is extremely low in these areas and land itself is not (which are not confirmed so prejudgements will have to be put on hold) “the needs of the many out way the needs of the few” B4 people go mental, once done in a fair honest and open process. But a harnessing of wind/sea power seems a good idea for Ireland; we do have lots of both!!
Energy and Energy security is the life blood of any Economy.
So I’m not asking for China approach, how about pros v cons, open discussion, at least it would give impression we are trying to think outside the box to get energy independence.
I stand corrected on the screening of the programme.

prech101

Wompa1 wrote: »

It was pulled for being Anti-American or just inaccurate? I can't remember them saying it was pulled for being Anti-American...I can remember when it came out and there was backlash on both sides between each other (Chavez and the TV Company) but that's all I remember.

Just read the Wikipedia link provided above. Looks like the documentary was heavily discredited and by the sounds of things was possibly even a form of propaganda itself. I've also thought people who make documentaries should have to release the unedited videos from them too, it sounds like the two guys involved got very creative with editing. That's Ironic considering the reason for the film in the first place. Kind of embarrassing that some of the funding for that movie may have come from our TV License...I think we should be the one's signing a petition

Wompa1
Have you watched it in full?. There is always going to claims and counter claims. (Propaganda war!)
Wikipedia is not something I would use to base my opinion on though.
There was clear evidence of media manipulation in regards to the shootings and the immediate coordinated approach from the media, strange it took so long for them to get a clear picture of what was happening in New Orleans after the storm, but US media had the full story of a dictator removed by his “People”
A couple of things caught my eye though; clearly showed use of private media to manipulate a story and force feed it to the people. (Iraq WMD’s spring to mind), example: the new little turn of phrase going around the states mainstream media at the moment “Bomb Iran or let Iran get the Bomb” (wonder whats coming down the line there in 2013, not 2012 hey it’s an election year!!)
And in this case the poor people were having none of it, why, because they wanted Chavez leading them, why because he took on the oil companies/big corps and they did what they do, it’s not new they have toppled numerous democratically elected leaders in numerous other countries to suit their needs, IRAN, Iraq, Afghanistan most of south America!, the list could go and on....
“you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all the people all the time”
Also it’s not a question of “is there one good man/woman out there that can lead us”,, makes no difference, firstly the main stream media will simply ignore them or if they do start to get popular character assassinate them in eyes of the public, doesn’t matter if its true or not, keep saying the same thing and eventually people will believe you (no smoke without fire) and second until we have a far equal system with no controlling parties/whips outside influence (money) the little guy stands no chance against the system. Its designed that way! If you would like evidence of this check out CBS recent coverage of Republican nominations in New Hampshire, Ron Paul was left out of all coverage, even when they were showing the stats of % votes received, nothing no name no picture of him (still think nobody is pulling the strings with a grand plan. (ref Keiseer report 16/17 Jan 2012)
Rant over!!!

antoobrien

hippygran wrote: »

No, I won't point you to anything. It doesn't matter what I say because you will counter everything with arguments and sarcastic comments regardless, as you have with everything and anything for the couple of months that I have been following this thread. This is not something that I, personally, have just pulled out of thin air. It is something that has been said repeatedly by various TD's, journalists, protest groups and authors of books on the subject. I don't know all the ins and outs, if you want to know, look it up.

I found a couple of sources of information to back up my view. Care to cite me some of yours so tat I can try to see where you came to your opinion?

Btw, if you think that "various TD's, journalists, protest groups and authors of books" aren't above twisting "facts" to suit their arguments then I really do pity you and the o.g. group.

biko

Just a great music piece to lighten the mood - The Original O.G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWbMEK419OA

hippygran

antoobrien wrote: »

hippygran wrote: »

No, I won't point you to anything. It doesn't matter what I say because you will counter everything with arguments and sarcastic comments regardless, as you have with everything and anything for the couple of months that I have been following this thread. This is not something that I, personally, have just pulled out of thin air. It is something that has been said repeatedly by various TD's, journalists, protest groups and authors of books on the subject. I don't know all the ins and outs, if you want to know, look it up.

I found a couple of sources of information to back up my view. Care to cite me some of yours so tat I can try to see where you came to your opinion?

Btw, if you think that "various TD's, journalists, protest groups and authors of books" aren't above twisting "facts" to suit their arguments then I really do pity you and the o.g. group.

And if you think that msm, oil companies and governments aren't above twisting facts to suit their arguments then I pity you. You will argue with any point I make and I find you very tiresome. I have said several times that I am not an expert on this matter so I shall waste no more time on it. We shall have to agree to disagree.