Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

The rumors are regarding a number of the groups works wide, not just the Galway one.

I think the comparison is fair, if the Wall St. one raised close to half a million in its first month is it really that hard to believe that the Galway group could earn a few hundred each week.

I love how asking simple questions or voicing an opinion which doesn't cirrespond with those of the group is considered trolling. But I guess that fits in nicely with the way some members posting here repeatedly respond with insults when challenged.

You think a protest in Eyre Square in Galway is relevant to Wall St.?

I agree the protest is largely pointless and ill informed but these attacks on donations are just petty, juvenile nonsense. Reflects badly on the accusers.

ben.schlomo

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Firstly, how did I insult you?.
I, personally, take no notice of rumours because that's exactly what they are. Rumours.
Go by facts not rumours.
It always appears to ME that people who talk about and spread rumours are just trying to stir things up.

Secondly, do you really believe that Galway has as much spare money floating around as Wall St.?.

Finally, why do you follow the trend of other posters and assume that anyone who disagrees with you is a member of the group, as you put it ?.

Read a few of my earlier postings before you make this mistake again please.

Sorry, I forgot to say good noght before switching my comp. off.

Good night

He clearly doesnt as he made a clear distinction between the hundreds of thousand and the possible hundreds. And he is also right about the usual tetchy responses from OG members and their supporters such as yourself when questioned or challenged on anything.

ben.schlomo

K-9 wrote: »

You think a protest in Eyre Square in Galway is relevant to Wall St.?

I agree the protest is largely pointless and ill informed but these attacks on donations are just petty, juvenile nonsense. Reflects badly on the accusers.

They are part of the Occupy movement and its a worldwide group as we are told here everyday by the members, so to answer you yes of course its relevant.

FreudianSlippers

hippygran wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally I don't think that the group should accept any donations of money. Supplies, food, etc are slightly more acceptable bevenly by much. If those involved can afford to give up so much time to protest then they should not expect others to provide necessities of living for them.

when people offer money I think that it should be refused and under no circumstances should it be accepted. Bit ironic that one of the groups main issue for protesting is the bank guarantee where our government essentially gave hand outs to the banks, yet the group is quite happy to accept handouts,

The people involved have made the choice to spend their time at the camp and as such any financial burden should be shouldered by the individuals of the group. They should not be reliant on the generosity of others to pay for gas to keep the group warm.

Your objection has been noted and when we feel that we need your permission to do anything we will be sure to contact you. If you want to raise this as a matter for discussion you are welcome to come along to a General Assembly and put the matter on the agenda. That is how decisions are made. The donations are offered, we don't solicit them. The first few times it happened took us all by surprise, to be honest, we hadn't expected it. This is the same in every camp and it is something that people do completely voluntarily, with or without your permission.

I really want to like you. You seem like a very genuine person.

However, if you do not see the hypocrisy in a group that is protesting greed and mismanagement if funds and touting transparency; while at the same time accepting donations and refusing to share records (that have been admitted to exist) with the public (us) who are asking to see them then I have no hope for you at all.

That's always been my problem with hippies actually, they seem to completely miss irony.


Mod note: FreudianSlippers banned.

FreudianSlippers

K-9 wrote: »

The last few pages about donations of a few Euro or a pack of Lyons Tea Bags seems extremely petty.

You're missing the point. This is a group that is protesting greed and promoting transparent. When accusations of misuse of donations arise within the camp they go on the defensive and refuse to share their records. Odd?

We've been repeatedly told that the Galway movement is just one part of a worldwide movement yet each group seems to have their own separate agenda. Surely if such a movement is to be successful then a policy if inter group communication and a single agenda must be implemented.

The funds issue is one that has to be carefully managed and be transparent as its do easy for people to abuse it. There seems to be nothing in place to ensure its properly managed. One person should be responsible for the collection and distribution of all funds and a detailed reviewed of all incoming and outgoings should be kept. While I don't agree with accepting cash donations and thr argument that they pay for essentials does not move me I think that for the group to attempt to justify accepting cash they must be able show where every cent is being spent.

It seems that at the minute any member has access to the money do what's to stop someone taking a twenty and heading for a few pints. By giving the responsibility to one individual possible abuse of the donations can be put to rest.

What I can't understand is how the groups which are receiving millions (if nearly half a million was raised in a month by Wall Street group it's not hard to imagine that figure is now much larger) in donations are not pooling all them and distributing it amongst all the groups world wide. There have been numerous rumours/allegations that funds have been mismanaged and abused by those with access.

As for the insulting me part, I was not as is obvious from the wording implying that I was indeed but rather how members of the movement have repeatedly attacked posters in this thread when asked to answer questions.

Irishgoatman

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

You're missing the point. This is a group that is protesting greed and promoting transparent. When accusations of misuse of donations arise within the camp they go on the defensive and refuse to share their records. Odd?

I, personally, see no reason why they should publish any sort of accounts on this thread.

If anyone who is donating money has a question to ask about how it's being used they could always ask at the time of giving.

I seriously doubt that this applies to anyone posting here.

Please remember that I am not a member of the group so this is only my opinion.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

You're missing the point. This is a group that is protesting greed and promoting transparent. When accusations of misuse of donations arise within the camp they go on the defensive and refuse to share their records. Odd?

I, personally, see no reason why they should publish any sort of accounts on this thread.

If anyone who is donating money has a question to ask about how it's being used they could always ask at the time of giving.

I seriously doubt that this applies to anyone posting here.

Please remember that I am not a member of the group so this is only my opinion.

No one has suggested they publish accounts here but rather that they keep detailed records of all incoming and outgoing cash which people can be made available to thise who ask. I take it that they have nothing to hide about where and how the money is being spent.

From people involved on the movement both on here and in person there seems to little effort put into keeping detailed records. Sure they enter it in the books mist nughtd but random members should not be accepting money from passerbys.

When I asked at the camp about how much on average they get and where it goes, who had access I got evasive answers and blank stares.

Irishgoatman

I've been told that a record of incoming and outgoings is kept.

I understand that Hippygran will be in the camp tonight for a few days, I suggest you ask for her if you're down that way.

Were you donating anything when you asked the last time?.
I only ask this because, imo as I said in my previous post, if you don't donate you have no AUTOMATIC right to know where the money goes.
There are many charities and causes that I don't donate to and it is none of my business what they do with their money.

lobes

Speaking of charities:

Tonight Occupy Galway are holding a fund raising gig
in aid of the Simon Community
at Fibber Magees, Eyre Square

Great night in store!

Line up:
Seamus Ruttledge
The Rye
Liminal
Dj G.....& guests!

MC:
Sean Maguire

There will also be a Raffle on the night.

Admission is free, donations will be appreciated.

WallyGUFC

Absolutely bizarre. Why would Occupy hold a gig for Galway Simon? I mean, I know it's a good cause. But what has this got to do with their protest?

Irishgoatman

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Absolutely bizarre. Why would Occupy hold a gig for Galway Simon? I mean, I know it's a good cause. But what has this got to do with their protest?

Incredible!

They can't do right for doing wrong can they.

Fuinseog

A sign on the door of the shack that folks can pop in for a cuppa and the people within do not bite. A friend went in and everything was going grand until he said he disagreed with them on one or two points. The mood changed automatically. I think he was expecting to be able to hold some kind of civilised debate. Instead he fled.

This is often the way it is with extremists. they like people to listen to them but woe betide anyone who disagrees with them. you are labelled either friend or foe.

Fuinseog

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Incredible!

They can't do right for doing wrong can they.

well, what is their purpose, a protest group or a charity group?

thesandeman

In fairness, if they held the gig as a fundraiser for themselves it would only give more ammunition to the few anti OG posters here.
This way they can have a night out themselves and support a good cause at the same time.

Irishgoatman

There are a lot of narrow minded people around.

The O.G. group are not there for their own benefit but to help other people. This is just one way of showing it.

I hope that they raise a lot of money for the Simon charity.

Why do some posters have a problem with this?.
If it doesn't affect you why not leave them alone?.

ben.schlomo

Irishgoatman wrote: »

There are a lot of narrow minded people around.

The O.G. group are not there for their own benefit but to help other people. This is just one way of showing it.

I hope that they raise a lot of money for the Simon charity.

Why do some posters have a problem with this?.
If it doesn't affect you why not leave them alone?.

Hope ye/they raise lots too. Id guess people were just a bit confused as to why and whether the donations are going to Simon or OG. Given the talk of donations in the last couple of pages i can see where the confusion might come in.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I've been told that a record of incoming and outgoings is kept.

I understand that Hippygran will be in the camp tonight for a few days, I suggest you ask for her if you're down that way.

Were you donating anything when you asked the last time?.
I only ask this because, imo as I said in my previous post, if you don't donate you have no AUTOMATIC right to know where the money goes.
There are many charities and causes that I don't donate to and it is none of my business what they do with their money.

Do you not think it's a bit hypocritical that a group calling for transparency & accountability for financial organisations think that they should be exempted from said measures?

Irishgoatman

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Hope ye/they raise lots too. Id guess people were just a bit confused as to why and whether the donations are going to Simon or OG. Given the talk of donations in the last couple of pages i can see where the confusion might come in.

The notice about the event said that money was being raised for the Simon charity.
People can either take that at face value or call them liars.

I don't see why there should be any confusion.

Irishgoatman

antoobrien wrote: »

Do you not think it's a bit hypocritical that a group calling for transparency & accountability for financial organisations think that they should be exempted from said measures?

No.
They are not a financial organisation by the way.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

No.
They are not a financial organisation by the way.

Really, I wasn't aware of that, how silly of me.

Funnily enough clubs are not financial organisations and they have to account for their incomings and outgoings - and make them available to various people.

If o.g. claims to be here for the benefit of the people, then it's not unreasonable for the an accounting of much is being taken in and spent to be made available.

Personally I think it's a bit hypocritical for a group claiming to represent the overwhelmingly vast majority of the people to want others to be held up to standards that they refuse to be held to themselves.

I personally find it suspect that any group tells people they should "Do what I say not what I do"

WallyGUFC

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Incredible!

They can't do right for doing wrong can they.

It's not incredible. I was merely asking what relevance this has to the protest? I appreciate that it's for a good cause and fair play to them for that. But tbh, would time not be better spent coming up with alternatives to austerity than hosting gigs? Honest question. "Protest" is seemingly becoming more pointless by the day, that's how I see it.

thesandeman

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Hope ye/they raise lots too. Id guess people were just a bit confused as to why and whether the donations are going to Simon or OG. Given the talk of donations in the last couple of pages i can see where the confusion might come in.

I cant see how the words 'in aid of the Simon Community' could cause confusion as to where the money was going.
Also it wasnt exactly 'talk' of donations over the last couple of pages. It was more like the anti OG people clutching at straws because they couldnt think of anything else to accuse OG of.

ben.schlomo

thesandeman wrote: »

I cant see how the words 'in aid of the Simon Community' could cause confusion as to where the money was going.
Also it wasnt exactly 'talk' of donations over the last couple of pages. It was more like the anti OG people clutching at straws because they couldnt think of anything else to accuse OG of.

Perfectly fair to ask them where the money is going, or should we just stop asking them questions as we never get answers anyway :rolleyes:. Im not the one that got confused i simply said i understand how someone could. And by the way what are they accused of(paranoid much), apart from the obvious of making the Square look a 'shtate'. People simply want to ask questions and discuss with them here but it never goes anywhere as they just get tetchy and childish when they cant answer or are challenged on their not so clear aims etc and it descends into pointlessness, much like the protest.

Just because we question the movement does not mean that we don't agree with the basic ideals of the movement.

The problem is that occupy Galway really don't seem to have a clue what they are doing. Take a walk down to the camp and you'll hear numerous conflicting ideologies. They have a lot of anger and ill thought out arguments aimed at the government and other organizations but they have no answers.

We're constantly told by those involved that this is a worldwide movement and that each group is connected. If that's the case why is there no manifesto of demands/ideas to save economy which each group will behind.

Members of the group in Galway told me that OG wants the IMF out of Ireland and all payments to the banks and bond holders stopped. When I asked them how the government would pay the massive social welfare bill I was told that the rich should be taxed at a higher rate.

Someone compared this movement to the civil rights movement in the US and I had to laugh. The civil rights movement affected real change for the better, they had a common goal and actively worked toward implementing their ideals. Every group involved shared and fought for the same ideals which is in direct contrast to the Occupy movement whose different groups all seem to be after different things. Some want the rich (1%) taxed at a higher rate, some want IMF out of Ireland, some want better benefits for those on social welfare. I have heard various members tell me of the different things they all want, the ones I mentioned are just a few of the demands I've heard at the camp.

As much as I agree with the motives behind each the Occupy movement it is a poorly conceived one which asks a lot of questions but doesn't have a single answer to give. Do people really think that by sitting around in Eyre Square that they will be able to change the world or in any way affect change in the government? If they want to change the world then the movement should be looking at setting up a political party and actively working to change the world from the ground up.

ben.schlomo

Deleted User wrote: »

Just because we question the movement does not mean that we don't agree with the basic ideals of the movement.

The problem is that occupy Galway really don't seem to have a clue what they are doing. Take a walk down to the camp and you'll hear numerous conflicting ideologies. They have a lot of anger and ill thought out arguments aimed at the government and other organizations but they have no answers.

We're constantly told by those involved that this is a worldwide movement and that each group is connected. If that's the case why is there no manifesto of demands/ideas to save economy which each group will behind.

Members of the group in Galway told me that OG wants the IMF out of Ireland and all payments to the banks and bond holders stopped. When I asked them how the government would pay the massive social welfare bill I was told that the rich should be taxed at a higher rate.

Someone compared this movement to the civil rights movement in the US and I had to laugh. The civil rights movement affected real change for the better, they had a common goal and actively worked toward implementing their ideals. Every group involved shared and fought for the same ideals which is in direct contrast to the Occupy movement whose different groups all seem to be after different things. Some want the rich (1%) taxed at a higher rate, some want IMF out of Ireland, some want better benefits for those on social welfare. I have heard various members tell me of the different things they all want, the ones I mentioned are just a few of the demands I've heard at the camp.

As much as I agree with the motives behind each the Occupy movement it is a poorly conceived one which asks a lot of questions but doesn't have a single answer to give. Do people really think that by sitting around in Eyre Square that they will be able to change the world or in any way affect change in the government? If they want to change the world then the movement should be looking at setting up a political party and actively working to change the world from the ground up.

I said something very similar over a month ago here and as always not one of the OG'ers had anything to say.

thesandeman

From my reading of things if people want to see the incomings/outgoings they are welcome to go down and have a look.
I do agree it seems a bit disorganised but I would prefer to see that than seeing a group being under the 'party whip' like most of our TDs are. If the people we are paying to look after our interests were allowed free speech maybe we would not be in our current situation.

And as I said in another post I dont think the camp looks like sh...

ben.schlomo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I said something very similar over a month ago here and as always not one of the OG'ers had anything to say.

Sitting around in a tent all day drinking tea and chatting to people passing by is a hell of a lot easier than actually working to affect change. The movement will die out eventually after accomplishing nothing and it's a shame as it has so much promise.

Hello world

hippygran wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I've asked those at the camp on numerous occasions about the donations and have yet to get a satisfactory answer. I wanted to know how much they have received, is there a record of donations, where the money is being spent and who has control. I was told that it was none of my business what they did with donationa by one member. when I brought up the many accusations concerning donations and how they being spent I get nothing but blank stares and half assed excuses from others.

If there are suspicions about the donations from inside the camp, surely these should be being brought up at camp meetings, not by some anonymous person online?
Why exactly is this becoming such an issue on here..we don't get hundreds you know..gas for the heater costs €32 and lasts 3 or 4 nights, we also have a gas bottle for the single ring cooker, this lasts about a week I think. We buy milk, we put credit on the camp phone, the odd bag of pasta for our dinner...what exactly do you expect to find? None of us are accountants, we haven't been using a double entry bookkeeping system or anything, they are written in a book at the end of most days. There has been the odd occasion when someone has bought something that others have thought unnecessary, but we are talking a few euro not squandering hundreds!

Shouldn't you have some sort of income that keeps you feed during the week? I would assume if people were donating money that it would go towards making leaflets of signs so as to raid awareness not just so ye dont have to pay for food?

Hello world

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I've been told that a record of incoming and outgoings is kept.

I understand that Hippygran will be in the camp tonight for a few days, I suggest you ask for her if you're down that way.

Were you donating anything when you asked the last time?.
I only ask this because, imo as I said in my previous post, if you don't donate you have no AUTOMATIC right to know where the money goes.
There are many charities and causes that I don't donate to and it is none of my business what they do with their money.

Well shouldn't people know what sort of things the donations is being spent on before they donate? They should have their little book attached to the outside wall of the cabin along side a donation tin so people know that when they donate all they are doing is feeding the group and keeping them warm (two thing they should be able to do themselves without donations)