Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

Hello world

Saw a group of them walking down Eyre square this morning with signs saying "not our debt" *sigh* any idea what that's about
Also should you be paying taxes on donations? (I'm not sure about the rules with regard donations and tax)

biko

I see that the donations is the latest anti-protesters angle, but I hope we can keep from implying something untoward is going on.

Sure, I understand you think there should be more donation transparency but tbh if you give to Santa Strike Force (boards own charity) do you know where the money is going?
Or if you give to Concern etc do you know how much of your money actually makes it to Africa?
If you give to a political party they don't have to declare anything below 5K. Do you know how the money is put to use?

No, because you believe in the idea and let the people in charge decide how to spend it.

antoobrien

biko wrote: »

Sure, I understand you think there should be more donation transparency but tbh if you give to Santa Strike Force (boards own charity) do you know where the money is going?
Or if you give to Concern etc do you know how much of your money actually makes it to Africa?
If you give to a political party they don't have to declare anything below 5K. Do you know how the money is put to use?

No, because you believe in the idea and let the people in charge decide how to spend it.

Well, biko, I'm not speaking for anybody else but there are very few charities that I gave money to because of this very issue.

In 2009, Irish charities were donated a total of €5.75 billion - a laudable total. However there's a second figure in that article which distubs me greatly - the €4 billion wage spend among 4,400 charities and non-profit organizations.

Hello world

biko wrote: »

I see that the donations is the latest anti-protesters angle, but I hope we can keep from implying something untoward is going on.

Sure, I understand you think there should be more donation transparency but tbh if you give to Santa Strike Force (boards own charity) do you know where the money is going?
Or if you give to Concern etc do you know how much of your money actually makes it to Africa?
If you give to a political party they don't have to declare anything below 5K. Do you know how the money is put to use?

No, because you believe in the idea and let the people in charge decide how to spend it.

Well I just would hav thought if they were getting money it would have gone towards raising awareness by printing signs and leaflets. They shouldn't need donations so try can eat, all of them have some source of income job/dole and if there was no occupy movement they would all have to pay for food and heat. So why should the donations go to feeding/eating them just so they can save a few pound of their own income?

biko

biko wrote: »

I see that the donations is the latest anti-protesters angle, but I hope we can keep from implying something untoward is going on.

Sure, I understand you think there should be more donation transparency but tbh if you give to Santa Strike Force (boards own charity) do you know where the money is going?
Or if you give to Concern etc do you know how much of your money actually makes it to Africa?
If you give to a political party they don't have to declare anything below 5K. Do you know how the money is put to use?

No, because you believe in the idea and let the people in charge decide how to spend it.

The problem is that it seems that every member of the group has access to the donations. It's been already said that members have spent donations on items others deem unnecessary. What's to stop a member grabbing 20 euro and heading off for pints or for someone to just pocket the donation?

At the end of the day if the protesters are reliant upon the generosity of others in order to eat and keep warm they should head home. Must be pretty easy to save the majority of your dole/wages if you can head to the camp 4 or 5 nights a week and eat for free. Also save on the cost of heating your home as you aren't there. If I donate money to a charity or SSF I expect that money to go to helping others, I do not expect the owners if boards to use it to hear their offices. It's for that very reason I won't donate to any charity that hires chuggers or pays their CEO a quarter of a million a year or owns multimillion dollar premises. I expect the money to go to the cause not those running it.

Let OG put the donations toward raising awareness, why can't they print a newsletter and distribute it around Galway?

From the Galway Advertiser Facebook page.

A Citizen’s Assembly is now taking place outside the offices of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation at Forster Street, Galway. This event was called by Occupy Galway to mark the payment of a one billion euro bond in favour of the now defunct Anglo-Irish Bank.

This was also shared on the Occupy Galway Facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/events/201773016585634/

We need our supporters to join us whenever they can from 7am on Monday 23 Jan until 6pm on Wednesday the 25th of Jan and help us maintain a blockade on Anglo Irish Bank HQ. A 'Carnival of Resistance' is being planned and will continue throughout each of these days. Anglo (Now IBRC) plan to make a payment of 1.25 Billion Euro to senior unsecured bondholders during the course of Wednesday the 25th and we want to play a part in mobilising people to stop them.

Below is a statement we released to the media tonight.

Occupy Dame Street Statement: 20th January 2012 : Planned Actions against ANGLO/IBRC bond payments.

In the coming twelve months the government will be handing over 6.3 billion euros to pay for erroneous banking debts incurred by Anglo Irish bank. On the 25th of January the single largest of these bond payments will take place, a total of 1.25 billon euro. Even within the terms of the bank bailout, the Irish people are not obliged to make these unjust payments. These unsecured bonds should not be burdened upon the people of Ireland in order to perpetuate an already failing financal system.

Occupy Dame St. will be proactive in its resistance to the cuts and austerity imposed upon the Irish people. We are committed to active non-violent acts of civil disobedience in order to prevent any actions which infringe on the rights of the Irish people. All actions taken by ODS and other groups will be of a non-violent nature and within peoples constitutional right to protest, so we ask members of An Garda Siochána to respect and uphold these rights, and also for all participants to respect both the Gardaí and the workers of Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (Formally Anglo Irish Bank). We call on all those affected by this economic crisis we face to leave their political differences aside and stand together to fight for real concrete change.

Unified efforts are being made to call for the Government of Ireland to back down on making these payments. Every effort will be made to ensure that these debts are repudiated and this will be the first of many actions. There will be pickets and non-violent acts of civil disobedience outside IBRC headquarters on the 23rd -25th January. We ask for as much support and participation in this from members of the public as they can offer and also would ask for IBRC workers not to cross these pickets.

There will also be music, teach ins, talk,open forum debate and a carnival.

Over the course of the 3 days there will be live music with performances by (among others) The Barley Mob, members of Kila and the Fibbs.
Occupy University will be hosting a series of lectures over the course of the 3 days at 1.30 and 5.30. Among those speaking are John Bissett, Conor McCabe and Michael Taft.

* This is a family-friendly protest and we encourage members of the public to bring their children and enjoy the Carnival atmosphere.

Hello world

pg633 wrote: »

From the Galway Advertiser Facebook page.

A Citizen’s Assembly is now taking place outside the offices of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation at Forster Street, Galway. This event was called by Occupy Galway to mark the payment of a one billion euro bond in favour of the now defunct Anglo-Irish Bank.

This was also shared on the Occupy Galway Facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/events/201773016585634/

We need our supporters to join us whenever they can from 7am on Monday 23 Jan until 6pm on Wednesday the 25th of Jan and help us maintain a blockade on Anglo Irish Bank HQ. A 'Carnival of Resistance' is being planned and will continue throughout each of these days. Anglo (Now IBRC) plan to make a payment of 1.25 Billion Euro to senior unsecured bondholders during the course of Wednesday the 25th and we want to play a part in mobilising people to stop them.

Below is a statement we released to the media tonight.

Occupy Dame Street Statement: 20th January 2012 : Planned Actions against ANGLO/IBRC bond payments.

In the coming twelve months the government will be handing over 6.3 billion euros to pay for erroneous banking debts incurred by Anglo Irish bank. On the 25th of January the single largest of these bond payments will take place, a total of 1.25 billon euro. Even within the terms of the bank bailout, the Irish people are not obliged to make these unjust payments. These unsecured bonds should not be burdened upon the people of Ireland in order to perpetuate an already failing financal system.

Occupy Dame St. will be proactive in its resistance to the cuts and austerity imposed upon the Irish people. We are committed to active non-violent acts of civil disobedience in order to prevent any actions which infringe on the rights of the Irish people. All actions taken by ODS and other groups will be of a non-violent nature and within peoples constitutional right to protest, so we ask members of An Garda Siochána to respect and uphold these rights, and also for all participants to respect both the Gardaí and the workers of Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (Formally Anglo Irish Bank). We call on all those affected by this economic crisis we face to leave their political differences aside and stand together to fight for real concrete change.

Unified efforts are being made to call for the Government of Ireland to back down on making these payments. Every effort will be made to ensure that these debts are repudiated and this will be the first of many actions. There will be pickets and non-violent acts of civil disobedience outside IBRC headquarters on the 23rd -25th January. We ask for as much support and participation in this from members of the public as they can offer and also would ask for IBRC workers not to cross these pickets.

There will also be music, teach ins, talk,open forum debate and a carnival.

Over the course of the 3 days there will be live music with performances by (among others) The Barley Mob, members of Kila and the Fibbs.
Occupy University will be hosting a series of lectures over the course of the 3 days at 1.30 and 5.30. Among those speaking are John Bissett, Conor McCabe and Michael Taft.

* This is a family-friendly protest and we encourage members of the public to bring their children and enjoy the Carnival atmosphere.

Music performances!! Someone remove them unless they have a licence!!

Irishgoatman

I'll just make one more comment with regard to donations that the O.G. receive. And I'm going to repeat myself.

In my opinion, if you donate then yes I believe you have a right to know where the money is going.
They, as far as I know, are not a club or registered organisation so there is no legal reason why they should give out this information to the general public.
If you don't donate then it is none of your business unless the people at the camp want to tell you.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I'll just make one more comment with regard to donations that the O.G. receive. And I'm going to repeat myself.

In my opinion, if you donate then yes I believe you have a right to know where the money is going.
They, as far as I know, are not a club or registered organisation so there is no legal reason why they should give out this information to the general public.

That would be fair enough - if they didn't claim to represent the general public (i.e. we are the 99%). In claiming to represent the public, they lose face when members of the general public are refused information as to how their donations are used.

Irishgoatman wrote: »

They, as far as I know, are not a club or registered organisation so there is no legal reason why they should give out this information to the general public.

This bit brings up an interesting point - if they're not registered as a club/non-profit organization then they are not registered as exempt from taxation on any donations.

Fuinseog

Deleted User wrote: »

Just because we question the movement does not mean that we don't agree with the basic ideals of the movement.

The problem is that occupy Galway really don't seem to have a clue what they are doing. Take a walk down to the camp and you'll hear numerous conflicting ideologies. They have a lot of anger and ill thought out arguments aimed at the government and other organizations but they have no answers.

We're constantly told by those involved that this is a worldwide movement and that each group is connected. If that's the case why is there no manifesto of demands/ideas to save economy which each group will behind.

Members of the group in Galway told me that OG wants the IMF out of Ireland and all payments to the banks and bond holders stopped. When I asked them how the government would pay the massive social welfare bill I was told that the rich should be taxed at a higher rate.

Someone compared this movement to the civil rights movement in the US and I had to laugh. The civil rights movement affected real change for the better, they had a common goal and actively worked toward implementing their ideals. Every group involved shared and fought for the same ideals which is in direct contrast to the Occupy movement whose different groups all seem to be after different things. Some want the rich (1%) taxed at a higher rate, some want IMF out of Ireland, some want better benefits for those on social welfare. I have heard various members tell me of the different things they all want, the ones I mentioned are just a few of the demands I've heard at the camp.

As much as I agree with the motives behind each the Occupy movement it is a poorly conceived one which asks a lot of questions but doesn't have a single answer to give. Do people really think that by sitting around in Eyre Square that they will be able to change the world or in any way affect change in the government? If they want to change the world then the movement should be looking at setting up a political party and actively working to change the world from the ground up.

I think some of these people are professional protesters. They are very focused on their ideology and do tolerate people who disagree with them. some of them are openly xenophobic and despise all Germans, which is not really beneficial for a town so heavily dependent on tourism.
the problem with the rich in this country is that apart from being perceived to pay very little tax they also created jobs. Quinn for example employed 5,000.

these protesters want to live in some kind of socialist paradise where they provide nothing and the state provides everything.
its the real people of Ireland, for whom they protest, that are making he best of a bad situation and getting on with their lives.

Fuinseog

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I'll just make one more comment with regard to donations that the O.G. receive. And I'm going to repeat myself.

In my opinion, if you donate then yes I believe you have a right to know where the money is going.
They, as far as I know, are not a club or registered organisation so there is no legal reason why they should give out this information to the general public.
If you don't donate then it is none of your business unless the people at the camp want to tell you.

Does Simon want donations from a group of troublemakers?


I have have to say the camp is becoming a grotty eyesore that will affect Galways image. Though to their credit crime in the square is said to have diminished since they moved in.

Irishgoatman

antoobrien wrote: »

That would be fair enough - if they didn't claim to represent the general public (i.e. we are the 99%). In claiming to represent the public, they lose face when members of the general public are refused information as to how their donations are used.



This bit brings up an interesting point - if they're not registered as a club/non-profit organization then they are not registered as exempt from taxation on any donations.

Yes, I know I wasn't going to comment on this anymore but I would just like to know who at the camp would be taxed?.
If, for tax purposes the money was, on paper, divided between all the people that are there I'm sure it would be below any tax free limit.

Hello world

Irishgoatman wrote: »

antoobrien wrote: »

That would be fair enough - if they didn't claim to represent the general public (i.e. we are the 99%). In claiming to represent the public, they lose face when members of the general public are refused information as to how their donations are used.



This bit brings up an interesting point - if they're not registered as a club/non-profit organization then they are not registered as exempt from taxation on any donations.

Yes, I know I wasn't going to comment on this anymore but I would just like to know who at the camp would be taxed?.
If, for tax purposes the money was, on paper, divided between all the people that are there I'm sure it would be below any tax free limit.

It should all be lodged into a bank account and taxed from there also it would be a way to keep track of how much is donated

Irishgoatman

Fuinseog wrote: »

I think some of these people are professional protesters. They are very focused on their ideology and do tolerate people who disagree with them. some of them are openly xenophobic and despise all Germans, which is not really beneficial for a town so heavily dependent on tourism.
the problem with the rich in this country is that apart from being perceived to pay very little tax they also created jobs. Quinn for example employed 5,000.

these protesters want to live in some kind of socialist paradise where they provide nothing and the state provides everything.
its the real people of Ireland, for whom they protest, that are making he best of a bad situation and getting on with their lives.

An interesting post.
Can you tell us where the "openly xenophobic" and "despise all Germans" comes from? Did you get this from being there and talking with someone?

Yes Quinn employed lots of people but he did it by borrowing money which is now being paid back by us.

Irishgoatman

Hello world wrote: »

It should all be lodged into a bank account and taxed from there also it would be a way to keep track of how much is donated

The answer to this is so obvious that it doesn't need posting!

Hello world

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Hello world wrote: »

It should all be lodged into a bank account and taxed from there also it would be a way to keep track of how much is donated

The answer to this is so obvious that it doesn't need posting!

I thought u were not reason my posts anymore?
Anyways I should have added that perhaps the founder of the og group sets up the account or the guy who set up the website or the fb page.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5202435_set-donation-fund-through-bank.html

Fuinseog

Irishgoatman wrote: »

An interesting post.
Can you tell us where the "openly xenophobic" and "despise all Germans" comes from? Did you get this from being there and talking with someone?

Yes Quinn employed lots of people but he did it by borrowing money which is now being paid back by us.

I know these people of old. They are very warm if you agree with them, but hostile if you dare think for yourself and have different opinion.
I experienced the xenophobia when I was with a German friend talking to a guy from socialist Workers Party, which supports the OG group and probably has members within.

there is a certain type of person who will lives in a tent in the middle of a city for several months. they are as representative of the general population as the RIRA.

the protesters are bitching that they have pay money to the banks, but I have the feeling that many of them do not actually work, are therefore not taxpayers so the whole thing does not really concern them.

as regards donations to the group there should be a sign outside the encampment with a break down of how the money is spent.

Fuinseog

Irishgoatman wrote: »

The answer to this is so obvious that it doesn't need posting!

well a Credit Union then.
Not everyone needs a bank account. Bertie Ahern for example.

Predalien

Fuinseog wrote: »

the protesters are bitching that they have pay money to the banks, but I have the feeling that many of them do not actually work, are therefore not taxpayers so the whole thing does not really concern them.

So anyone who doesn't pay income tax shouldn't have a say? Low earners? Disabled people? What an idiotic stance, especially considering there are many other forms of tax apart from income taxes.

squonk

Fuinseog wrote: »

well a Credit Union then.
Not everyone needs a bank account. Bertie Ahern for example.

That's a fair point. Seeing as we are all only human, there is bound to be some abuse of donations going on over time. I think if you are accepting donations from the public, who you claim to represent, then the best thing you could do is be very transparent and at least put up a note at the camp saying, this week we received €200 donations. €65 went on gas, €60 went on food etc. Some receipt photocopies would help too. Nobody there is an accountant I'd guess and it'd be hard to account for things down to the cent but a general broad view isn't a bad thing if you're going to take in money. It's the best way to stop perceptions forming like those in previous posts.

The alternative is to not take in money but post a sign asking for donations of items required. I personally like that approach as it's pretty transparent and the items are of immediate benefit to the camp.

In any case, as protesting isn't a job and I'd deem it as an extra-curricular activity, I'd be expecting to fund myself for such activities so for instance, before I left home to head for the camp, I'd pack a bag with things like pasta, milk, bread and a bit of spending money for emergencies. It'd be the same as if I was heading off camping for the weekend or whatever.

Either you're a protest group or you're a charity. You can't be both.

squonk

Predalien wrote: »

So anyone who doesn't pay income tax shouldn't have a say? Low earners? Disabled people? What an idiotic stance, especially considering there are many other forms of tax apart from income taxes.

Those who don't pay tax because they are disabled or on a low wage deserve their say. Those who are sitting in tents with unclear agendas for the foreseeable future using their time to not work and not look for a job need to ask themselves some questions.

Hello world

Predalien wrote: »

Fuinseog wrote: »

the protesters are bitching that they have pay money to the banks, but I have the feeling that many of them do not actually work, are therefore not taxpayers so the whole thing does not really concern them.

So anyone who doesn't pay income tax shouldn't have a say? Low earners? Disabled people? What an idiotic stance, especially considering there are many other forms of tax apart from income taxes.

No but if you go back through the pages many people have talked to the protestors and some of them admit to never have worked in their lives before, they shouldn't have a say

Predalien

Hello world wrote: »

No but if you go back through the pages many people have talked to the protestors and some of them admit to never have worked in their lives before, they shouldn't have a say

Okay, I wish that everyone that can work, will, but realistically in any society that won't happen. But we still live in a democracy and there is absolutely no way anyone should be removed from the democratic process, you may as well give more votes to those that earn more. It's that ridiculous a suggestion.

Irishgoatman

Fuinseog wrote: »

I know these people of old. They are very warm if you agree with them, but hostile if you dare think for yourself and have different opinion.
I experienced the xenophobia when I was with a German friend talking to a guy from socialist Workers Party, which supports the OG group and probably has members within.

there is a certain type of person who will lives in a tent in the middle of a city for several months. they are as representative of the general population as the RIRA.

the protesters are bitching that they have pay money to the banks, but I have the feeling that many of them do not actually work, are therefore not taxpayers so the whole thing does not really concern them.

as regards donations to the group there should be a sign outside the encampment with a break down of how the money is spent.

Do you really think that you have answered my post?.
What people do you know of old?.
Hippygran, for example, has never been on a protest before.
You have the "feeling" that many of them do not actually work, that sounds as though you haven't been down talking with them.
I dont see how you have answered the anti German question. Did this conversation you mention take place at the camp?.

Hello world

Predalien wrote: »

Hello world wrote: »

No but if you go back through the pages many people have talked to the protestors and some of them admit to never have worked in their lives before, they shouldn't have a say

Okay, I wish that everyone that can work, will, but realistically in any society that won't happen. But we still live in a democracy and there is absolutely no way anyone should be removed from the democratic process, you may as well give more votes to those that earn more. It's that ridiculous a suggestion.

No but why should these people who were to lazy to find a job back in the years where anyone could find a job complain about paying taxes when all that will happen to them is their weekly pocket money might be reduced by a few euro

Hello world

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Do you really think that you have answered my post?.
What people do you know of old?.
Hippygran, for example, has never been on a protest before.
You have the "feeling" that many of them do not actually work, that sounds as though you haven't been down talking with them.
I dont see how you have answered the anti German question. Did this conversation you mention take place at the camp?.

If you go back through the thread people who said they went to the camp and some of the protestors admitted they never worked before. So as it turns out his feeling was right

Fuinseog

Predalien wrote: »

Okay, I wish that everyone that can work, will, but realistically in any society that won't happen. But we still live in a democracy and there is absolutely no way anyone should be removed from the democratic process, you may as well give more votes to those that earn more. It's that ridiculous a suggestion.

they cannot work or they will not work? Our benefits are very generous. in a lot of countries they reduce them after a year. some folks want to live comfortable lives on social welfare which is not really the point of it. Galway seems to be Mecca for those who just want to chill. Sadly you can get more on welfare than some poorly paid jobs, but personally I would have self respect working that not working.

BTW how does it work with toilets and showers at the encampment?

I'm finding the whole idea that unless you donate you have now right to ask where the money will be spent. If I am at the camp and thinking of donating but want to know where he money will be spent do I have to first show my ten euro before someone will answer.

What I have been suggesting in regard to money donated is that one person should be responsible for it. They should be the only member of the group allowed to accept cash donations. In fact a sealed box which only one member of the group should have access to should left out for people to leave their donations. That person should be responsible for counting the money each day and deposition it in a bank account. There should be a record record of each days donations aswell as of all outgoing costs. Receipts for all purchases should be kept. One person whose responsibility it is for donations would make life a lot easier for the group as a whole. They should be the only one able to dole out money for essential supplies, all of which should be agreed up by the group and not by one or two individuals. After all to some people a bottle of vodka and chocolate may be thought of as essentials.

As already stated, I agree with the fundamental ideals of the movement but recognize that widespread social change can only be accomplished by a united front where each group works toward a common goal. As it stands the separate movements seem to be chasing different goals with members of the same group often at odds about what they want. I have been told the protest is about protecting the poor, that it's about getting the IMF out of the country, that it's about wrestling our independence back front the Germans and French, that it's about making the 1% take responsibility, that it's about higher tax rates for the rich, etc, etc.

Anytime anyone voices an opinion which isn't in line with the movement they are instantly branded as being anti OG. The hypocrisy that we cannot question the groups motives and workings is ludicrous especially when you consider that the group is demanding the same from our government.

Fuinseog

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Do you really think that you have answered my post?.
What people do you know of old?.
Hippygran, for example, has never been on a protest before.
You have the "feeling" that many of them do not actually work, that sounds as though you haven't been down talking with them.
I dont see how you have answered the anti German question. Did this conversation you mention take place at the camp?.

yes it did. my friend and I went in for a cuppa because we were curious and wanted to learn more, though it was kind of grotty within. Once the atmosphere became aggressive we left.
I can have a civilised debate with the Muslims or hare krishnas without feeling threatened. somehow with SWP, Free Palestine and other professional protesters this is not possible.

Fuinseog

Predalien wrote: »

So anyone who doesn't pay income tax shouldn't have a say? Low earners? Disabled people? What an idiotic stance, especially considering there are many other forms of tax apart from income taxes.

there are people out there who protest for a living. They got tired of shell to sea, where Shell created about two thousand local jobs, now they are here. Next year they will be elsewhere.