Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

biko

Fuinseog wrote: »

These young people seem to be full of energy we need more people in our national parliament wearing t-shirts and looking as if they just got out of the scratcher.

Don't try belittling OG again, re-read OP.

lobes

This was filmed in Galway recently by http://www.notourdebt.ie/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyiHS555A5Y

http://youtu.be/kyiHS555A5Y

biko

To show youtube vids it must look like this

[noparse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyiHS555A5Y

[/noparse]

kyiHS555A5Y being the unique video identifier number, usually after "v="

Irishgoatman

Deleted User wrote: »

Because protesters will get more attention and support shouting "Burn the bondholders" than they would shouting "Burn the bondholders and depositors to the same degree"

Being unsecured doesn't mean anything really in this case - it just means there are no specific assets that can be seized in the event of a default. Depositors are equally unsecured.

An example in consumer finance is that a mortgage is secured against the underlying building and the building can be seized in the event of a default, credit card debt is unsecured as it doesn't have a right to seize anything if it isn't repaid.

edit: article calling for depositors to rank ahead of bondholders:
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/law-must-mind-depositors-not-bondholders-2382109.html[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this but just 2 points:
The people that I referred to as raising the subject were not protesters but politicians and TV news reporters and presenters.
Second point is that you say depositors are unsecured but, surely they are covered up to a certain amount, 100,000 I think? might be wrong on the amount, by the government?.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

The people that I referred to as raising the subject were not protesters but politicians and TV news reporters and presenters.

All of whom rely on people that may not have the relevant experience in financial matters, who knows what qualifications and/or experience any of these people have (or if they listen to anything they say)

The convenient omission of something at odds with one's position is an old public speaking trick, journos & presenters have products to sell (papers or shows) and politicians usually try to spin things to their own advantage - do you believe everything anything you read in the daily mail?

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Second point is that you say depositors are unsecured but, surely they are covered up to a certain amount, 100,000 I think? might be wrong on the amount, by the government?.

That's true - it used to be only 10k/20k (can't remember which) before the banking guarantee was introduced - but you're potentially screwed if you've got more than that. This is part of the reason why pension funds and the like buy bonds in the first place.

Edit: any chance you can fix the quotes please, it makes it a bit hard to figure out where your bit begins.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Thanks for this but just 2 points:
The people that I referred to as raising the subject were not protesters but politicians and TV news reporters and presenters.
Second point is that you say depositors are unsecured but, surely they are covered up to a certain amount, 100,000 I think? might be wrong on the amount, by the government?.

The same selective reasoning can apply to those people as to protesters - they are (generally) not in power so it is easy to use slogans like burn the bondholders. If they were brutally honest and said depositors could lose out along with the bondholders their support would probably move on to whoever else gave the easy answer.

It is true that the state guaranteed deposits (and senior bonds at the same time). The reference to unsecured relates to the amounts being covered by the bank itself.

If anglo Irish was liquidated and could only collect 50c in every €1 it was owed then the depositors and senior bondholders would only have gotten whatever was raised from that split between themselves. Any difference between what was recovered from the bank and what was guaranteed by the government would then have been paid out of the public purse.

Even with hindsight it is hard to see which would have been better - a liquidation and firesale of the Anglo assets or the drawn out winddown we are seeing now. [assuming the government 100% guarantee was in place in each case - liquidating Anglo without the guarantee would be another very different outcome - any deposits over the maximum guarantee could have been lost with no extra money coming from anywhere]

lobes

lobes wrote: »

youtube vid

That woman with red hair seems to pop up all over the place.

Fuinseog

biko wrote: »

Don't try belittling OG again, re-read OP.

who says I am belittling them? just because you are on their side does mean I cannot have a different opinion to yours.

Fuinseog

lobes wrote: »

This was filmed in Galway recently by http://www.notourdebt.ie/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyiHS555A5Y

http://youtu.be/kyiHS555A5Y

who is the dude with dreadlocks. he was around the college for years.

thesandeman

Im not usually a fan of Vincent Browne but he sounds like he should be in the camp. He has some Fine Gael dude cowering in a corner at the moment.

biko

Fuinseog wrote: »

who says I am belittling them? just because you are on their side does mean I cannot have a different opinion to yours.

I am.
"we need more people in our national parliament wearing t-shirts and looking as if they just got out of the scratcher" is belittling the people you are talking about.
Who's to say they would not be better dressers, work harder and/or be better at politics than me or you? That remains to be seen I guess if they manage to organise a party.

I'm not on their side per se but someone needs to make sure the comments like yours isn't just let go.
Both sides are occasionally slyly digging at each other and without heavy moderation this thread would have been locked months ago.

Wompa1

lobes wrote: »

This was filmed in Galway recently by http://www.notourdebt.ie/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyiHS555A5Y

http://youtu.be/kyiHS555A5Y

They all seem pretty anti Anglo but very Pro littering. Not sure I can get behind that. Nice to see the guy who's always cutting a rug in the Roisin in a video featuring Galway. More of this I say!

biko

They use the same signs and most of them seem to just hand the signs over to someone offscreen.
I videos taken in Galway, like historical documents.

muppetkiller

So the Occupy Dublin Crowd are chaining themselves to the Banks this morning Just as a matter of interest what are the Galway group doing ?

Given the weather outside I hope they are somewhere warm and dry.

Irishgoatman

antoobrien wrote: »

All of whom rely on people that may not have the relevant experience in financial matters, who knows what qualifications and/or experience any of these people have (or if they listen to anything they say)

The convenient omission of something at odds with one's position is an old public speaking trick, journos & presenters have products to sell (papers or shows) and politicians usually try to spin things to their own advantage - do you believe everything anything you read in the daily mail?



That's true - it used to be only 10k/20k (can't remember which) before the banking guarantee was introduced - but you're potentially screwed if you've got more than that. This is part of the reason why pension funds and the like buy bonds in the first place.

Edit: any chance you can fix the quotes please, it makes it a bit hard to figure out where your bit begins.

Re asking me to fix the quotes: As I've said before, all I do is click on the "quote" button then add my piece at the bottom.

What else do you want me to do?.

Irishgoatman

O.K. antoobrien, I think I see what you're getting at. Sometimes the quote appears in a shaded box and others it doesn't.
Don't know what I can do about that as I always do the same thing when quoting!.

If anyone has some technical advice please help but try to keep it simple!.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Re asking me to fix the quotes: As I've said before, all I do is click on the "quote" button then add my piece at the bottom.

What else do you want me to do?.

Just to be clear I'm not being critical, but despite the fact that it's easy to break the quote functionality is so easy to use messing it up seems lazy.

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Don't know what I can do about that as I always do the same thing when quoting!.

If anyone has some technical advice please help but try to keep it simple!.

When using the quote leave this bit "[/QUOTE]" intact at the end of the post you're quoting from. You might also find the the preview post option useful - you'll see how it looks and get a chance to edit before posting.

Irishgoatman

antoobrien wrote: »

Just to be clear I'm not being critical, but despite the fact that it's easy to break the quote functionality is so easy to use messing it up seems lazy.



When using the quote leave this bit "

" intact at the end of the post you're quoting from. You might also find the the preview post option useful - you'll see how it looks and get a chance to edit before posting.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate that you're not being critical.
I always quote the whole post. I don't try to take/highlight individual pieces. As I said, and as I'm doing now, I just add my piece to the bottom.

Irishgoatman

O.K. antoobrien, what the hell happened now?. The reply I just posted is odd.

biko

Let's not get too much into the technical stuff here. PM me IG and we'll try to sort your issue quoting.

Irishgoatman

biko wrote: »

Let's not get too much into the technical stuff here. PM me IG and we'll try to sort your issue quoting.

Thanks biko, I was hoping for PM's on this and am sorting it with help from Antoobrien.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

text text text

Your quote should look like this: (I put a space in the word quote)
[QU OTE=Irishgoatman;76718904]text text text[/QU OTE]

Sponge Bob

The Grassroots by 'The Insider' column in the Advertiser today commented on the vituperation in this thread. No link yet, may show up here

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Grassroots by 'The Insider' column in the Advertiser today commented on the vituperation in this thread. No link yet, may show up here

For anybody who hasn't got a copy lying around, go to page 36 of the digital edition

It was this continual inflation of social welfare payments in multiples of the cost of living and similar reckless largesse that resulted in the massive chasm between revenue and expenditure that now has to be bridged.

This was the cause of the crash. The subsequent bailout was merely the result. To put it in context, the €63 billion cost of bailing out the banks since the economic downturn falls considerably short of the €79.7 billion cost of social welfare payments during the same period.

This has been pointed out a few times here, nice to see somebody put it in print even if nobody will read it.

padraig47

Can I as a longstanding PAYE worker and one of the 99% say that I object to these people protesting in my name and messing up Eyre Square.

They have no chance of achieving anything but annoying the ordinary people and making themselves feel important. Just go home and do some work folks and stop destroying one of the few amenities that we have in this city.

I will not engage with any discussion and I am probably wasting my time, but feel that I am entitled to say the above !

Predalien

antoobrien wrote: »

For anybody who hasn't got a copy lying around, go to page 36 of the digital edition



This has been pointed out a few times here, nice to see somebody put it in print even if nobody will read it.

Except that the figure for social welfare payments is misleading, only about €4.4b are dole payments, much of it is just funding a bloated, inefficient government department. Also spending on social welfare ballooned because of the trebling in unemployment figures, not massive increases in payments. Plus the lack of means testing for children's benefit means millionaires get a social welfare payment.

Fuinseog

antoobrien wrote: »

For anybody who hasn't got a copy lying around, go to page 36 of the digital edition



This has been pointed out a few times here, nice to see somebody put it in print even if nobody will read it.

thanks for throwing that up. makes for interesting reading. I am sure the letters to the ed will attack said article.

skelliser

That column is absolute rubbish.

He is saying that social welfare spending is the reason for our economic collapse!!

This is the sole reason for the crash



Blaming it on people who are on the dole is a typical haunt of neoliberal nutters.

Of course the Advertiser wouldnt dare print the above graph, why?
Cause they made a killing during the bubble years.
all you have to do is look at any copy of the advertiser from those years to see that the property section was bigger then the rest of the paper!

thesandeman

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Grassroots by 'The Insider' column in the Advertiser today commented on the vituperation in this thread. No link yet, may show up here

Just had a read. Very unresearched article.
No mention that some of the Anti OG people were actually the same person posting under different names.
No mention of the threats to burn the campers out or the hope that one of them would die if there was a frost over the winter.
Also they are using photographs of the original camp (which I admit I didnt really like) as opposed to the current one which is in nobodys way.

I did have a giggle at the description of Padraig Conneely though :-D

Edit: I forgot to mention that 'THROWING CHAIRS' has now been reduced to 'had moved chairs'.