Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

Someone_Else

I have been following this thread from the beginning with (mostly) great interest and definitely most (sad) amusement.

True, there are a lot of people in difficulty. True, the country is in deep s**t. True, the politicians in the recent history have chosen the wrong “methods”. The new government in place has a lot on its plate – most of the issues we are experiencing are due to previous mismanagement. But, they are so alike the previous crowd … it’s not funny!

I am sure that 99% of the population is disgruntled at what is happening and I am undoubtedly one of them. Every day, I nearly find myself screaming in frustration at the television when I hear about more taxes, more charges and today a way of lightening tax for high earners (under the pretence of attracting employment by making it easier for empowered executives to move to Ireland whereas I suspect this measure would be to protect themselves!) amongst others.

However, I just cannot believe how ridiculous this Occupy Galway (OG) group come through all along this thread.
If they were serious about “marketing” their ideas and making themselves popular, they would have grabbed the opportunity of promoting their reason-to-be on boards.ie as this thread is getting quite a lot of exposure (even cited in one of the local free papers!).
The only interface the boards.ie readers are getting with OG at the moment is through the father of one of the protestors! (no offense Irishgoatman).

I will admit here that I have never been to see them on their camp and, with what I have read so far, the enthusiasm is lacking!

From what I can gather, their agenda is : to protest – full stop.
There is no programme, just a drumbeat of dissatisfactions. What are they doing about it? Raising funds for charities??? Whilst honourable, it has got nothing to do with what they claim they stand for and it certainly doesn’t show any determination to make things better.

From my observing position, what I suspect is happening is … a group of people sets up in the USA and elsewhere to protest against the crisis that it touching them with slogans that remind me strangely of the basis of Communist ethics. (Of course, they cannot claim this openly as they would risk major problems).
I was told one day about Communism and Communists : they are ready to share everything, including what they haven’t got.

And, again from what I have read here, the latter is pretty much what OG are now grasping on, looking for an even distribution of wealth, that “they” have is better than what we have ….
To me, it just sounds like children throwing a tantrum because they cannot get the toy they want, like naïve followers who are living in the hope of brainwashing the rest of the population though they do not have the argument to succeed.
Their Facebook page is just a collection of articles published by other Occupy Groups from somewhere in the world, of pictures with captions that sound intelligent, etc … Their website consists of anything but substance. Nothing really constructive anywhere, is it?

Why do they not latch on a few specific issues that are affecting us and concentrate on this? – we have got to start somewhere. Why do they not establish themselves as a working group (political party?) with the view to make/negotiate improvements? What do they not have a 'leader' or someone with a bigger picture express him/herself on this thread and elsewhere? It would be so much more credible.

In conclusion : OG - quit moaning - do something !

Apologies for the long post. I have been churning on this for a while now … I just had to say it!

Irishgoatman

Hi Someone Else,

I would just like to say that it was a pleasure to read a post that did not contain swearing (even wrongly spelt swear words) and abuse, and I admit that a lot of what you have said makes sense.

Everyone has to remember tho, that the O.G. are just a group of ordinary people who have, to put it one way, wandered into the camp.

My only contact with them is through my Daughter, and I have never been to the camp which is why I have never commented on how it looks.

You sound as though you would make a good leader for them, how about it?.

antoobrien

wearytraveller wrote: »

that smells like someone has been getting some brown envelopes, which is surely exactly what Occupy is about?

Sorry but it has absolutely nothing to do with the layabouts in the square arguing about bank debt, who seem to latch onto the latest bandwagon.

It's called inertia and it's a curse that's been a problem in Ireland since the Brehon times. If you don't like sarcasm skip the sarky bit (just for you hippygran) .

<really_sarky_bit>
Well there is the formal approach taken by any decent Irish civil servant - better known as the Irish approach - spend the budget (preferably more than you have) so you'll get more in the next cycle or lose the existing budget. That would result in loss of face, which is a fate worse than death for a civil servant.
</really_sarky_bit>

Lest see, there's the problem of initiative, the civil service is totally lacking in it, so unless and until they get told to change it by the EPA nothing will change.

So what do we need to do?

We need to fire the incompetents in charge of the nuthouse and put the right people in place.

But taking any action here would be tantamount to cutting a public service, as well as p.s. jobs for the people that no longer have to manage the fluoridation process.

The own goal o.g. group are opposed to cuts, so they (as usual) contradicting themselves with their support of this issue.

K-9

I can remember huge protests in the 80's over tax, rates that would make peoples eyes water now, but there is no tradition of militant opposition, like say the Miners in England in the 80's.

wearytraveller

wearytraveller wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Now what does any of that have to do with the Occupy movement? I take it that they have realized that the majority of the population have grown sick and tired of them sitting around doing nothing and are now branching out in order to gather some new followers. They're been camped out there got months and have yet to come up with a single workable idea to help get the country back on track.

If you have a read through these two links, you will see that there is little doubt that fluoride in the water is a bad thing, with no redeeming aspects. You will see that it is not used across pretty much all of Europe. Yet Ireland continues to fluoridate at a rate of around 70% of the water. I, personally, would assume that someone, somewhere is making some serious money out of this practice. Fluorosillic acid (fluoride) is a toxic waste that is produced as a by-product of industry (can't remember what type), that has to be disposed of, that is considered too toxic to be put just anywhere. And Ireland is the only country in Europe to be fluoridating most of the water...to me, that smells like someone has been getting some brown envelopes, which is surely exactly what Occupy is about?
http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=4381

We're all well aware of the issues surrounding the subject but what exactly dies it ha e to do with what Occupy Galway wishes to accomplish? This talk is just another in their long line of pointless endeavors that accomplish nothing other than getting them a few lines in the local free paper.

I find it funny that the group is opposed to the septic tank change but wants to see debate over this issue. Surely the group should be behind the septic tank charge as faulty septic tanks are one of the biggest polluters of our drinking water.

Occupy Galway need to take a good long look at what it is they wish to accomplish and as a group get together and come up with some workable ideas. They tell us that they ate just one cog in an organization that stretches the world over yet the groups all seem to have different demands which are often at odds with the other groups.

lobes

Ninety Nine Percent for Art
new work by Carol Anne Connolly and Jim Ricks @ The Shed Galway,
February 10 – 19th, 2012

Opening reception 7pm Thursday February 9th 2012

http://theshedgalway.blogspot.com/2012/01/ninety-nine-percent-for-art-new-work-by.html

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

lobes

lobes wrote: »

Ninety Nine Percent for Art
new work by Carol Anne Connolly and Jim Ricks @ The Shed Galway,
February 10 – 19th, 2012

Opening reception 7pm Thursday February 9th 2012

http://theshedgalway.blogspot.com/2012/01/ninety-nine-percent-for-art-new-work-by.html

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

:rolleyes:

This is just getting silly now

Fuinseog

It there an Occupy Dublin group? if so, you do not hear much from or about them. maybe because they are not on the main thoroughfare.

Predalien

Fuinseog wrote: »

It there an Occupy Dublin group? if so, you do not hear much from or about them. maybe because they are not on the main thoroughfare.

they're on dame street

Irishgoatman

Antoobrien,

I thought people had got away from name calling! but here you go again.

In your latest post, number 1744, you refer to the protesters as "layabouts". This is highly derogatory. Have you spoken to them all and found out what their circumstances are? I very much doubt it.

You do yourself, and this thread, no good by starting this up again.

Also please don't bother adding "sarky bits" for hippygran, she doesn't bother reading boards postings any more and I don't tell her what's being said. Her reason? lack of respect by so many posters for other people. Can't argue with that.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Antoobrien,

I thought people had got away from name calling! but here you go again.

In your latest post, number 1744, you refer to the protesters as "layabouts". This is highly derogatory. Have you spoken to them all and found out what their circumstances are? I very much doubt it.

You do yourself, and this thread, no good by starting this up again.

Also please don't bother adding "sarky bits" for hippygran, she doesn't bother reading boards postings any more and I don't tell her what's being said. Her reason? lack of respect by so many posters for other people. Can't argue with that.

It's a shame that members of Occupy Galway who posted here didn't show others the respect that they themselves seem to demand. Members of OG routinely used abusive language and name calling when replying to members here. Numerous posters on here have commented upon the lack of respect and intimidation they felt at the camp when they challenged OG over any of their beliefs or actions.

While I think that people should be able to engage in civilized debate I don't think calling the group layabouts is highly derogatory. To be honest it's pretty apt considering that many of them spend all day sitting around the camp.

WallyGUFC

I found some posts by a now banned poster highly derogatory and offensive, and also barely legible. 5 months and still no plans. A pathetic farce of a protest that is now seemingly turning into a charitable organisation. And they represent the 99% LOL!

thesandeman

Fuinseog wrote: »

It there an Occupy Dublin group? if so, you do not hear much from or about them. maybe because they are not on the main thoroughfare.

They are called Occupy Dame Street. They are camped on Central Bank property.
They have been mentioned at least 5 times in the last week on television (probably more but Ive only seen 5) including in a statement from one of the main men in the Central Bank saying that they were not intending to move them from their property at the moment.

I really do think you need to do more research and reading before you hit the 'send' button. You have already quoted a post and then asked a question to which the answer was in the first couple of sentences of the post you quoted and now you seem to have missed everything thats in the media are regards the Occupy Movement.


@antoobrien & @darko If you read back you will see that some of the 'numerous' people were actually the same person posting under a different Username.
I do agree that one of the Occupy people didnt do them any favours with the language/insults etc but that has gone both ways in the pro/anti debate.
I cant go back checking but I think there are only 4or5 Anti posters on here, 2or3 members of Occupy, a couple of supporters, a few neutral (including myself) and various people trying to stir the manure.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Antoobrien,

I thought people had got away from name calling! but here you go again.

In your latest post, number 1744, you refer to the protesters as "layabouts". This is highly derogatory. Have you spoken to them all and found out what their circumstances are? I very much doubt it.

What are they actually doing all day?

As far as I'm concerned there's nothing derogatory about using an accurate description. Oh wait we're p.c. now, so we can't, we have to protect peoples feelings.

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Also please don't bother adding "sarky bits" for hippygran, she doesn't bother reading boards postings any more and I don't tell her what's being said.

Well she described what were, in my view, accurate views of what's going on a sarcastic. So if people are reading sarcasm in my posts (apparently there is more than one person out there that thinks my opinions are sarcastic), it's only fair to warn them.

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Her reason? lack of respect by so many posters for other people. Can't argue with that.

toys pram. Typical o.g., show an opinion they don't agree with and you're being disrespectful, arrogant or aggressive. hg got special attention for annoying me over that a few weeks ago, while refusing to give a straight answer, so any insult (aimed or perceived) is warranted.

Irishgoatman

Antoobrien.

Oh dear,your defensive post, number 1755, doesn't really hold water does it?.

1/ Following your line of thought, anyone who spends a day or two sitting by the river bank with a fishing rod but no sign of fish could be accused of being a layabout. Regardless of whether that person is unemployed or has a few days off work. Would you go up to that person and ask them if they had a job or not? I don't think so.

2/ I wasn't saying that you should not be sarky. If you re-read my post I was saying that you are wasting your time adding pieces for the benefit of hippygran as she won't see it. I'm surprised though, that you feel that the use of sarcasm helps in anyway.

3/ As far as I recall, hippygran gave quite a few straight answers as she saw things, not as a spokesperson for the camp. Do you really expect everyone at the camp to be able to answer any question thrown at them? of course not. Even experts only answer questions relating to their particular field.
She then became fed up with the attitude of many of the posters and said that she would be happy to speak to anyone if they came to the camp and made themselves known to her. So far I haven't heard of that happening.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Antoobrien.

Oh dear,your defensive post, number 1755, doesn't really hold water does it?.

1/ Following your line of thought, anyone who spends a day or two sitting by the river bank with a fishing rod but no sign of fish could be accused of being a layabout. Regardless of whether that person is unemployed or has a few days off work. Would you go up to that person and ask them if they had a job or not? I don't think so.

2/ I wasn't saying that you should not be sarky. If you re-read my post I was saying that you are wasting your time adding pieces for the benefit of hippygran as she won't see it. I'm surprised though, that you feel that the use of sarcasm helps in anyway.

3/ As far as I recall, hippygran gave quite a few straight answers as she saw things, not as a spokesperson for the camp. Do you really expect everyone at the camp to be able to answer any question thrown at them? of course not. Even experts only answer questions relating to their particular field.
She then became fed up with the attitude of many of the posters and said that she would be happy to speak to anyone if they came to the camp and made themselves known to her. So far I haven't heard of that happening.

What are o.g. actually doing in the square? I can't see any evidence of them even being outside the camp any time I've passed recently (usually a Saturday afternoon).

I wasn't aware that hg had thrown her toys all the way out of the pram until you pointed it out (must have missed that post), so aiming the comment at her was (still is) fair game.

About her posts, she was always evasive in answering questions I asked and was not appeciative when challenged. I don't apprecaite being told to google something by someone telling me I'm wrong and don't have the facts. If you're telling somebody you're wrong you'd better have the facts lined up.

As I said to hg I was treated rather badly the only time I stopped there to discuss the issues, so never again.

Fuinseog

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Antoobrien.

Oh dear,your defensive post, number 1755, doesn't really hold water does it?.

1/ Following your line of thought, anyone who spends a day or two sitting by the river bank with a fishing rod but no sign of fish could be accused of being a layabout. Regardless of whether that person is unemployed or has a few days off work. Would you go up to that person and ask them if they had a job or not? I don't think so.

2/ I wasn't saying that you should not be sarky. If you re-read my post I was saying that you are wasting your time adding pieces for the benefit of hippygran as she won't see it. I'm surprised though, that you feel that the use of sarcasm helps in anyway.

3/ As far as I recall, hippygran gave quite a few straight answers as she saw things, not as a spokesperson for the camp. Do you really expect everyone at the camp to be able to answer any question thrown at them? of course not. Even experts only answer questions relating to their particular field.
She then became fed up with the attitude of many of the posters and said that she would be happy to speak to anyone if they came to the camp and made themselves known to her. So far I haven't heard of that happening.

as I pointed out in several posts the occupiers who represent 99% of the population are regarded by regarded by many as extremists who welcome you with open arms if you agree with them but turn on you quite viciously if you do not. therefore dropping by for a cuppa is not really an option.

according to crowe in a letter to the advertiser these people are aggressive and abusive. extra Garda man power is required to protect public representatives from assault. garda man power that should be used elsewhere.

Nok1a

antoobrien wrote: »

<really_sarky_bit>
Well there is the formal approach taken by any decent Irish civil servant - better known as the Irish approach - spend the budget (preferably more than you have) so you'll get more in the next cycle or lose the existing budget. That would result in loss of face, which is a fate worse than death for a civil servant.
</really_sarky_bit>

.

The midset that you describe in relation to spend it or lose it exists across most spectrums of business not just the Irish civil service because thats how most budgets in their nature work. Ive worked in finance departments of many hugely successful multinational companies and where you have many cost centres and departments to control its impossible to construct a budget without using prior periods data. Its the easiest and most cost effective way to budget operating expenses unless you throw loads of man hours and resources at the budget process and do a zero based budget and justify ever cent in the budget, and even if you do how do you justify your proposed expenses in a zero based budget, yes you compare to your actual expenses so you will still have the same problem.

Its also very evident from a sales point of view, check out a companies sales at the end of a month/quarter, there is always a peak where customers are spending their periods budgets or they lose it.

Its a well recognised deficiency of budgeting, its just not possible to justify every single cent of a budget so you have to rely on past data.

Your post seems to have a very know it all attitude with the solution being X, but I dont think that you know what you are really talking about(maybe you read about it but you have no practical experience). The main point that you are missing, is that in times of difficulty private companies will cut their cloth to measure, whereas in the civil service unions will not allow them to cut their cloth. Ive been involved in budgeting processes where we were told cut X%, we dont care how you do it, these involved redundancies and wage cuts which are not possible in the civil service.

Irishgoatman

Fuinseog wrote: »

as I pointed out in several posts the occupiers who represent 99% of the population are regarded by regarded by many as extremists who welcome you with open arms if you agree with them but turn on you quite viciously if you do not. therefore dropping by for a cuppa is not really an option.

according to crowe in a letter to the advertiser these people are aggressive and abusive. extra Garda man power is required to protect public representatives from assault. garda man power that should be used elsewhere.

Do you have any solid facts to back up your second paragraph re Garda man power? A statement from the local Superintendant for example, other than a letter from Crowe to the Advertiser.
I have understood that the opposite is true and there is less trouble in the square now.

I won't comment on your first paragraph as it is so puerile.

Predalien

Fuinseog wrote: »

as I pointed out in several posts the occupiers who represent 99% of the population are regarded by regarded by many as extremists who welcome you with open arms if you agree with them but turn on you quite viciously if you do not. therefore dropping by for a cuppa is not really an option.

according to crowe in a letter to the advertiser these people are aggressive and abusive. extra Garda man power is required to protect public representatives from assault. garda man power that should be used elsewhere.

What! According to Crowe!? Crowe is not a source approaching any level of reliability, Gardai have actually stated that Eyre Sq is now a much safer place because of the camp, particularly at weekends, there has been a noticeable drop in incidents because of the camp.

Irishgoatman

antoobrien wrote: »

What are o.g. actually doing in the square? I can't see any evidence of them even being outside the camp any time I've passed recently (usually a Saturday afternoon).

I wasn't aware that hg had thrown her toys all the way out of the pram until you pointed it out (must have missed that post), so aiming the comment at her was (still is) fair game.

About her posts, she was always evasive in answering questions I asked and was not appeciative when challenged. I don't apprecaite being told to google something by someone telling me I'm wrong and don't have the facts. If you're telling somebody you're wrong you'd better have the facts lined up.

As I said to hg I was treated rather badly the only time I stopped there to discuss the issues, so never again.

I will only comment on your third paragraph because you still seem to be missing the point.
I believe the type of mining known as "Fracking" is dangerous. Why? because I went on Google and read of the countries (and a county here in Ireland) that have banned the use of it. I read their reasons why and I read about the way it is done. I also read reports from those in favour of it.
Now if we were on the street talking about this and you asked me for facts to support my views, I would refer you to Google. Why? because I can't remember all the details and I don't print a hard copy to carry around with me. An expert on the subject, whatever the subject is, would be expected to be able to quote off the top of his/her head. Members of the general public, which is what the protesters are, would not.

If you can remember references to support your beliefs, at the drop of a hat, then good for you. Most of us can't.

You obviously use a search engine so what is wrong in her suggesting that you use it to check on her points/statements?.

Predalien

Predalien wrote: »

What! According to Crowe!? Crowe is not a source approaching any level of reliability, Gardai have actually stated that Eyre Sq is now a much safer place because of the camp, particularly at weekends, there has been a noticeable drop in incidents because of the camp.

Speaking of reliability of sources do you have any Garda source/quote on that?

The only media reports I'm aware of are quotes from OG themselves:
Gardai say we’ve made Eyre Square safer, says Occupy Galway

lobes

lobes wrote: »

Ninety Nine Percent for Art
new work by Carol Anne Connolly and Jim Ricks @ The Shed Galway,
February 10 – 19th, 2012
Opening reception 7pm Thursday February 9th 2012
http://theshedgalway.blogspot.com/2012/01/ninety-nine-percent-for-art-new-work-by.html

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

99 Percent For Art - Opening Talk by Dr. Patrick Collins, NUIG:

http://soundcloud.com/occupygalway/99-percent-for-art-opening

Predalien

Deleted User wrote: »

Speaking of reliability of sources do you have any Garda source/quote on that?

The only media reports I'm aware of are quotes from OG themselves:
Gardai say we’ve made Eyre Square safer, says Occupy Galway

Fair enough, although a letter to the paper refers to an apparent confirmation of this by Gardai. The Gardai certainly haven't issued any denial of the claim. It would logically follow that such a presence in the square would act as a deterrent to certain criminal acts.

I'd like to reiterate that I am not an outright supporter of Occupy Galway and do have reservations about the muddled nature of their overall goal, what I am in favour of however is a freedom to protest peacefully. So far this is what they have done, if nothing else they have encouraged debate on the realities of the economic situation in the country, which is very welcome. It is remarkable folly to dismiss the Occupy Galway movement because of their attachment to other issues which are often protested by the same groups of people in Galway. Just because it's the same people does not automatically make them wrong on every issue because you disagreed with them in the past on a different issue.

What has occurred in Ireland over the last few years (particularly in regard to the Anglo bail-out) has been the socialization of private debt. This is a complete denial of allowing capitalism to take it's course. We have not allowed normal market and business rules to apply, but have only done this in relation to banks, protecting the vested interests of very few, at the same time successive governments have looked to find not the cuts required as a solution but the ones with least political damage, protecting their interest at a future election.

Irish people seem to have some sort of damaged relationship with the notion of protest, in 1916 we rejected the desperate attempt of a few hundred men to free us from imperialism, only recognising them as heroes in the years and decades that followed. Our country is and continues to be a place where the alternative is rejected purely because it is not what we're used to, politics of fear seems ingrained in our society. But sure lets keep on this route, pile another 20 billion of bank debt onto our national debt this year, and more every year for the next few decades, hopefully it'll work out, but if there ever was a time to protest it is now, and those that decide to engage in protest should not be subjected to constant attempts to undermine and deny them that right.

I know there are some that will still argue that this is what we voted for but it is not, I voted Labour last time based on the constant posturing that no more would be poured into Anglo, they have backtracked spectacularly on this and have denied and manipulated the democratic process.

Red_Wake

Predalien wrote: »

Irish people seem to have some sort of damaged relationship with the notion of protest, in 1916 we rejected the desperate attempt of a few hundred men to free us from imperialism, only recognising them as heroes in the years and decades that follows.

OG is hardly a rebellion, though it is similiar to 1916 in that both claimed to represent the people, and neither had popular support.

c_man

Predalien wrote: »

What! According to Crowe!? Crowe is not a source approaching any level of reliability, Gardai have actually stated that Eyre Sq is now a much safer place because of the camp, particularly at weekends, there has been a noticeable drop in incidents because of the camp.

Good ol' causation correlation, by gar it's been a while.

Let's be honest here, OG are never going to answer any of the questions that people have for them. We make a point and tell them that a simple google search will confirm it and they go on a rant about his it's up to us to prove not for them to have to go searching. They tell us we can google it ourself and when we ask for the proof they get defensive and insulting.

I agree with the basis principles of the Occupy movement but do far it's been nothing but a shambles. In the months they have been there what have OG accomplished? Have they brought attention to thr many issues involving our government or the banks? No, they haven't as they themselves can't seem to agree in the issues.

Irishgoatman

Red_Wake wrote: »

OG is hardly a rebellion, though it is similiar to 1916 in that both claimed to represent the people, and neither had popular support.

And now, as Predalien said, those few hundred from 1916 are now heroes to the vast majority of people.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Red_Wake wrote: »

OG is hardly a rebellion, though it is similiar to 1916 in that both claimed to represent the people, and neither had popular support.

And now, as Predalien said, those few hundred from 1916 are now heroes to the vast majority of people.

you can't even consider putting OG and those involved in the 1916 rising in the same sentence. Jesus but they have an already inflated ego, no need to go implying to them that future generations will upon them as heroes.

Predalien

Did any of you actually read my post? I was not making a comparison, I was making a point about Irish attitude to protest (disregarding the merits of a protest, my concern is the freedom to protest is being attacked). Seems most are in fact still fumbling in the greasy till.