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Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)
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Dave Joyce wrote: »SO, its cool to let Shell take everything we have and get NOTHING in return. And our politicans regardless of whatever party got NOTHING for providing the resources.......yea right :rolleyes:
So Shell are going to take everything we have! That is the kind of crap talk which is the reason why so many people don't believe in this protest.
You sound like a raving looney spouting that nonsense, are Shell going to take my bike, I must stop them.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »lol @ the figures
5 * 20% + 1% = 101%
You do know that if you're in the top 1% you're also part of the top 20%, right?0 -
I don't normally do replies to say "+1" ... but I think this point needs some magnification:
"There was a general election in February with a 70% turnout. If it didn't return who you wanted then it means you don't represent 'the people'."
Recent observations from the Eyre Square halting site:
Tents are now secured to the ground with sandbags and/or large lumps of rock/concrete. Several are now mounted on wooden racks, with spare racks beside some others. I presume that this is to aid in drainage. At about 10:30pm, they were trying to tie a large tarpaulin over several of the tents. I'm not sure that this will stand up to much wind, though.
Just Mary,
As a Mod you should know better than to use large and obnoxious caps, especially when you are trying to prove a rather silly point!!
Yes, we had an election and those we elected have lied and backpedaled on almost all they promised, so because they lied you are saying those that are objecting don't represent a majority!?!
Face it, the country is in bad shape and many people are suffering, but some pseudo yuppies think it's not Cool to protest so you want to belittle the protestors, I think your behaviour is disgraceful!
As for someone who thinks the pathetic Christmas market we had last year is more important that protesting our social rights, then maybe the country is just getting what it deserves, unfortunately it many cases the wrong people are suffering the pain!
Remember, people have the right to voice their opinions, as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others while they are doing it! These protests are only the beginning, maybe nothing will come out of it, then at least they tried, but as previously pointed out, from a small acorn comes a mighty Oak! So why are you people so bent on putting down the protestors other than your fear you may not be able to buy a small German pancake for €25 at the Christmas market in two months time!!0 -
To hell with the pancakes - I want a kangaroo burger.0
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Eyre Square looks like a dump0
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Dave Joyce wrote: »My God, talk about some people not having a clue! Have you any idea how much the Galway developers ALONE owe to NAMA??
Yes some people on here don't have a clue.
As it happens (for developments in Galway)...the developers owe f*ck all to Nama.
There are 29 entries for the city and county (roughly 50/50 split) - which is not enough for one page - out of the 24 pages in the Nama properties enforced list. Given the vast size of Co Galway that's f*ck all in comparison to the other counties.
Yes a Galway based developer (treasury holdings) is one of the biggest entire sin Nama. It's also one of the few that is likely to be able to make it out at break even or better (due to the location of one of the properties - the Battersea Power station in London).0 -
Recent observations from the Eyre Square halting site:
Tents are now secured to the ground with sandbags and/or large lumps of rock/concrete. Several are now mounted on wooden racks, with spare racks beside some others. I presume that this is to aid in drainage. At about 10:30pm, they were trying to tie a large tarpaulin over several of the tents. I'm not sure that this will stand up to much wind, though.
Similar standards to much of the lego-land estates that sprung up throughout "boom time" Galway so.
All the protesters require is a safepass.0 -
Yes, we had an election and those we elected have lied and backpedaled on almost all they promised, so because they lied you are saying those that are objecting don't represent a majority!?!
They, in theory, have 5 years to bring their manifesto to fruition - do you want to give them a chance or go back to the 70's & 80's style politics?
Do you remember the results of that mess? It saw a 5 general elections in the space of 8 years & 4 days (June 11th 1981 to June 15th 1989). It was only at the end of all that with some stability of policy that the economy started to grow.
Personally I think they're doing about as well as they can have been reasonably expected to do. And no, not for a second did i believe half of the crap they were pedaling - it has been the same crap they were pedaling at every election since the one where they lost power (way back in 98). The difference now - they had a recession to get rid of the government.
If you think we have it bad now go back to the 80s and take a really hard look at just how hard things were. We were effectively bankrupt in 1987 when Charlie made his infamous (hypocritical) speech saying "as a nation we are living way beyond our means". Well guess what, as a nation history has repeated itself. Before anyone says well I didn't do this or that - if you spent money in this country of the past 15 years you contributed to supporting the economic bubble (especially if you had a credit card, mortgage, car loan or just paid rent), so spare me the self righteous denials.
Anyhow back to the 80s - we were shut out of the bond markets, sound familiar? The big difference now is that we didn't have the trioka to loan us money to keep the country operating (yes that is the reason for it, out current spending is in a massive deficit - before we started spending money on the banks).
Our national debt was several multiples of the size of the economy. Debts stood at about €80 billion. GDP was about €25 billion. Middle income & higher (pretty much anyone in the tax net at the time, the tax bands were ridiculously small) were paying 60% tax.
I wonder does anybody in this group realize what the alternative is to the budget cuts etc?
Let me put it out very starkly: an immediate €12 billion adjustment.
If you think that the hospital, education, public service & social welfare problems are big now imagine the results of an immediate 25% budget cut for each department.0 -
I think part of the problem with all the protestors protesting the protestors is because they are kids who aren't living in the real world. Head The wall is just worried about his bike, so he apparently doesn't own a car and lives in either student digs paid by Mammy and Daddy or he still lives with Mammy and Daddy. Wait until you are out in the real world and you have to fend for yourself, you'll understand then, but until then don't give out about things you don't understand!!Head The Wall wrote: »So Shell are going to take everything we have! That is the kind of crap talk which is the reason why so many people don't believe in this protest.
You sound like a raving looney spouting that nonsense, are Shell going to take my bike, I must stop them.
In an earlier post another person was bragging about how he lives so well and is saving on a salary of €30K per year. Unfortunately in this day and age 30K won't get you far even if you were lucky enough to buy a house after the crash or way before the boom. I'd bet the one who was bragging about living well on 30K is either living with Mammy & Daddy or is living with a partner who makes at least as much and they have no kids. Just try to pay a mortgage and support a family on 30K, it's a joke! Now some arm-chair boards genius is going to tell me I must be living beyond my means or maybe I bought a house that was too expensive. Please walk in my shoes before you can say that!! Well I'm living below most means, but yes my house was too expensive, although it's a dirty little 3 BR semi for myself a wife and 3 kids. I knew it too expensive and I didn't want to buy it, but after paying dead-money rent and getting screwed by landlords we eventually decided we had to buy and about a year later the market crashed and I lost my job because my company moved my job to India. After being out of work for 9 months I was lucky enough to find another job, but at less pay.
So what are my complaints:
Why did the FF government continue to pump up the over inflated housing bubble when they should have been trying to stabilise it or slowly deflate it? Everyone said buy-buy and no one was protecting renters in a run away market. Now that the market has crashed, they all act shocked and say no one could have predicted it. Well I don't have a degree in economics but I did see it coming and I told many people a crash was coming, despite my best advice I needed a place for myself and my young family to live.
Now I'm a victim of the property market like many other tax payers, so why are the tax payers paying for the losses of the gamblers? Why has no one gone to jail yet? I read yesterday that they are selling Drumm's $4 million house in Cape Cod to pay off debts, but not before his wife gets a cut. I don't want to begrudge anyone a basic home and I'm sure she'll end up in a place a lot nicer than mine, but why does she deserve any of the stolen money? If Drumm robbed a bank and got caught would his wife be entitled to half of the stolen money?
The company I previously worked for was making record profits and the crash was a good excuse for them to move jobs to a country with a cheaper work force, not that they were paying me that much to start with. Yes, companies are in business to make money, but this is pure greed, millions for a select few and buttons for the rest. This is not right, I thought this was a modern civilised society? As previously stated, this is the same society that enables such wealth and protects it, they should also play by the rules. But I guess the rules only apply to the peons.
I have many other complaints and questions, but I'm not going to waste my time preaching here, many of you have your minds made up and you are all just too cool and look down and ridicule anyone who complains or protests calling them crusties, hippies and begrudgers. Before you look down on anyone, be thankful for what you have - maybe rich parents or good timing, I unfortunately had neither and I'm not asking for anything either, just accountability to those that caused the problems and things to be fairer.0 -
surprised at the number of haters in this thread.0
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First of all I am not unsuccessful and I clearly make a lot more than you. I am not broke and never said I was nor did I say I had the answers to all the financial problems. That being said I had some answers before the crash, since I predicted the crash, although I had expected it to come a few years earlier but I suspect the only reason the crash didn't come earlier was because the property bubble was propped up by Fianna Fail. Despite my predictions, unfortunately my personal situation and my timing being a little off didn't allow me to prepare adequately for the subsequent crash.
It sounds to me like you didn't predict the crash, if you really did you would have done something about it.
You actually look a bit foolish coming on here saying it when you are now caught up in the thick of this mess the country is in. You stated also that you have a mortgage so you are effectively part of the problem and had you really predicted the crash you would have sold your house near the top of the market and made contingency plans, so I call BSI think part of the problem with all the protestors protesting the protestors is because they are kids who aren't living in the real world. Head The wall is just worried about his bike, so he apparently doesn't own a car and lives in either student digs paid by Mammy and Daddy or he still lives with Mammy and Daddy. Wait until you are out in the real world and you have to fend for yourself, you'll understand then, but until then don't give out about things you don't understand!!
Read my post properly before ranting, the bike comment was in relation to Dave Joyce claiming Shell will take "everything" we have. You couldn't be further form the truth about me either, I came back from USA 5 years ago, houses in my college town had increased in price 8 times from 1996 to 2006, it didn't take a genius to see there was something wrong, also people camping outside estates trying to buy a house off the plans. I understood the market, it looks like you that hasn't.In an earlier post another person was bragging about how he lives so well and is saving on a salary of €30K per year. Unfortunately in this day and age 30K won't get you far even if you were lucky enough to buy a house after the crash or way before the boom. I'd bet the one who was bragging about living well on 30K is either living with Mammy & Daddy or is living with a partner who makes at least as much and they have no kids. Just try to pay a mortgage and support a family on 30K, it's a joke! Now some arm-chair boards genius is going to tell me I must be living beyond my means or maybe I bought a house that was too expensive. Please walk in my shoes before you can say that!! Well I'm living below most means, but yes my house was too expensive, although it's a dirty little 3 BR semi for myself a wife and 3 kids. I knew it too expensive and I didn't want to buy it, but after paying dead-money rent and getting screwed by landlords we eventually decided we had to buy and about a year later the market crashed and I lost my job because my company moved my job to India. After being out of work for 9 months I was lucky enough to find another job, but at less pay.
No one has a right to buy a house, someone should think of their current and future financial circumstance in relation to kids etc before having them. Maybe then we wouldn't have the likes of yourself come on whining because they can't afford their lifestyle. I wouldn't expect to be able to support a family of 3 kids and pay a mortgage on 30k but obviously some people felt they would/should be able to. I would like to believe that my choice is the correct one
I mean, you don't like the situation you are in, but I especially don't like it because I was sensible and prudent but I am being asked to contribute also. I'm not against supporting our country but we all have limits
Anyway I am off to London next month with the OH, I'm not waiting around for the next budget and this country is heading nowhere good soon regardless of all the so called good reports from the IMF/Troika.0 -
In an earlier post another person was bragging about how he lives so well and is saving on a salary of €30K per year. Unfortunately in this day and age 30K won't get you far even if you were lucky enough to buy a house after the crash or way before the boom. I'd bet the one who was bragging about living well on 30K is either living with Mammy & Daddy or is living with a partner who makes at least as much and they have no kids.
I wasn't bragging, i too am a victim of the crash and used to earn more but in those days i saved rather than spending so that if the rainy days came i'd have something to fall back on. Most people here have a victim mentality because they did not exercise a more prudent approach to personal finance. I genuinely feel for people who are struggling but people are culipible for their own decisions too, it's not just the government's fault. I've house shared and had apartments too for over 14 years as well as moving out of home at 17 and paying my own way through college so please don't condescend to me with "Mammy & Daddy" nonsense.Now I'm a victim of the property market like many other tax payers, so why are the tax payers paying for the losses of the gamblers?
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Again we have the victim mentality. If someone told me a horse was a sure thing at Cheltenham at 5/1 and i took out a bank loan to fund the gamble and the horse fell at the 3rd fence, is it the banks fault that i lost everything or am i mainly to blame? The fact is that you had a job that wasn't secure and you then speculated by buying what you yourself called a below standard 3 bed semi at the height of the boom and then watched in horror as your "sure thing" crashed. I was always subject to the same peer pressure about houses but didn't cave in as i always believed the market was hyper inflated. I was told i was a fool and that eventually i'd be priced out of the market if i didn't get on fast. Now those same peers are facing financial ruin and blaming banks/governments etc for their own choices. I respect people voicing their concerns through peaceful protest and agree that their is a lot of corruption too that brought this ruin upon us and that their must be accountability from those in the higher echelons that brought this ruin to our nation but the accountability extends also to people like you and me. I cannot respect the hypocracy of those who want others to be held accountable for poor financial choices and yet at the same time deny personal accountability for their own decisions, all the time crying "i'm a victim"
My taxes are already paying for the gamblers, both the bankers and home owners, because both sets gambled and both sets lost. I made a prudent choice not to get a mortgage but yet my taxes go towards subsidies of banks holding negative equity assets of the mortgage gamblers so who really is the victim here! :mad:0 -
I couldn't agree with you more Zarquon, but we are to be labelled as haters and begrudgers probably by the very same people who derided us for not getting on the market.
I was also on the dole for a few months and now earn half of what I was earning before that but I don't blame anyone for that. I will also point out that I was able to get out and socialise more when on the Dole and run a car than I am now when working. I didn't live at home either, get rent allowance or support from my OH (it wasn't needed) and I had SKY and paid all my bills. My lifestyle didn't really change much at all bar no sun holiday that year. It was a simple as living within my means and because I had no loans, mortgage etc.0 -
I don't normally do replies to say "+1" ... but I think this point needs some magnification:
"There was a general election in February with a 70% turnout. If it didn't return who you wanted then it means you don't represent 'the people'."
Recent observations from the Eyre Square halting site:
Tents are now secured to the ground with sandbags and/or large lumps of rock/concrete. Several are now mounted on wooden racks, with spare racks beside some others. I presume that this is to aid in drainage. At about 10:30pm, they were trying to tie a large tarpaulin over several of the tents. I'm not sure that this will stand up to much wind, though.
I commented earlier on the mentality of some of the posters but justmary really does take the biscuit!
"..halting site"? "...aid in drainage"? and SHOUTING.
Other posters have been rebuked for shouting but not her. Why? maybe because she's a moderator? I hope not.
These people (not crusties or hippies) are trying to show that they care about the country and are unhappy with the way it is being run. Yes they are living rough, what would you suggest justmary, that they book into a hotel every night?.
Try to see other peoples' point view. Criticize by all means but don't insult.0 -
Hello Head The Wall, Please remember attack the post not the poster!! Please don't get personal with me and I won't get personal with you!!Head The Wall wrote: »It sounds to me like you didn't predict the crash, if you really did you would have done something about it.
You actually look a bit foolish coming on here saying it when you are now caught up in the thick of this mess the country is in. You stated also that you have a mortgage so you are effectively part of the problem and had you really predicted the crash you would have sold your house near the top of the market and made contingency plans, so I call BS
Thanks for calling me foolish, but once again you are one of these BOARD EXPERTS that knows all!! If you were to walk in my shoes you would understand. I could tell you my life story, but obviously it wouldn't matter to you since you already know everything.
Yes, I have a mortgage, but despite my negative equity I continue to pay it, how in the world does that make me part of the problem???
Yes, I predicted the crash over 10 years ago and maybe foolishly now didn't buy. I kept on calling a crash but the FF gov continued to prop up the housing market and things continued to spiral. I was renting a house getting screwed over by greedy landlords with a family and all kept telling us to BUY, BUY, BUT!! I was eventually forced to buy. Yes, I called it and didn't take my own advice, maybe stupid, maybe poor timing, call it what you will, I have to live with it. I didn't buy anything special, very basic and it was just barely within my means, but at that point even 1 bedroom apartments were out of range for most first time buyers. Despite the fact my house has negative equity and I have a big mortgage I still continue to pay my mortgage and I even did so when I was out of work for a while, unlike many others who got a lot more than I did!!
You say you don't have a mortgage, so I assume you don't own a house or was one given to you? If you don't own and don't live with Mammy then you either have your head in a hole or you are renting. If you're single than maybe you're renting a room, if you're in your 20's fair enough, but if a bit older and you work hard and have a half way decent job then you deserve more. Try renting a house with a family, maybe you got lucky and found a nice landlord, although most aren't too nice. You say "No one has a right to buy a house", maybe not, but I find that poor in a country where most do own a house and many own several. Also with a government that never protected renters from greedy landlords, but was more interested in protecting the property bubble! Maybe we don't have a God given right to own a house, but I think we do have a God given right to have children!! I'm not asking anyone to pay for my kids. So what I'm reading from you, no one should own a house or have kids! I'm not on social welfare and I am supporting my family, but i don't want to help support banks and developers too!!
Finally I'm not asking for anything, on the contrary I'm tired of everyone sticking their hand out to me. I didn't see any of the OWS people begging either. So while I struggle to get by on my frugal lifestyle and I have never lived beyond my means, when the country is struggling, they are raising our taxes, reducing teachers and SNAs, reducing our pensions, raising the price of many things and bailing out the gobshytes that caused all the problems in the first place. Yes, I'm not asking for anything, but in return they shouldn't ask anything more of me and we should not be responsible to bailout the developers and banks!
I'm confused, you don't own a house, you live in a hole in the wall and you probably have to leave the country because of the mess and you are not angry at any government, developers or banks and you see nothing wrong with the current laws, taxes and policies and you get angry at people peacefully protesting trying to fix things. Maybe their fight is futile, but at least they are trying not running away!!!
You obviously have a real chip on your shoulder and if you feel people have no right to a house or kids and you want to leave the country, maybe you should go to China, I hear there are plenty of jobs there!!0 -
Irishgoatman wrote: »I commented earlier on the mentality of some of the posters but justmary really does take the biscuit!
"..halting site"? "...aid in drainage"? and SHOUTING.
Other posters have been rebuked for shouting but not her. Why? maybe because she's a moderator? I hope not.
These people (not crusties or hippies) are trying to show that they care about the country and are unhappy with the way it is being run. Yes they are living rough, what would you suggest justmary, that they book into a hotel every night?.
Try to see other peoples' point view. Criticize by all means but don't insult.
If you have a problem with my post, please use the report button in the left hand bar.
fyi, in standard netiquette, THIS IS SHOUTING, not this isn't.
It's very, very rare that I use fonts like that, and when I do it's for a very definite purpose.
I'd have no problems with the protestors if they were were acting within the law, and campaigning for a major overall of public morality in Ireland, for example:- the way people bribed their way into things - both taking AND giving "brown envelopes"
- the way small / medium businesses treated their suppliers even back in the good times.
- the almost non-existant behavioural standards expected of politicians: eg the Galway Co Councillor who topped the poll at the last elections despite having been convicted and serving a prison term for fraud - against the council.
And as a mod of Work and Jobs, I'm well aware of employers taking the p*ss with their staff.
But there's no way its only the "1%" who are at fault. Sure their mid-deeds make a big difference - but it's the top 20% who pay most of the tax, too.
Focussing on "the 1%" is lettting the rest of us off scott free, and frankly we're ALL guilty to some extent. (Hands up who voted FF at the national election-before-last? .. I wasn't here then, but a lot of ye must have.)
And I'm certain that there are bye-laws about overnight camping in Eyre Square, unless you are the sheep of a free-man of the city.0 -
@ Bozacke - you are unhappy with the current situation and that is fine and understandable.
What are your solutions? Local, national, high level or specific examples of what you would like done or changed.
The main reason I dismiss these protests is that they seem to be just complaining about the position we as a nation got ourselves in, about cuts in spending and about tax rises but they are ignoring the very substantial budget deficit and not offering any realistic alternatives to balancing our books.0 -
If you have a problem with my post, please use the report button in the left hand bar.
That would not point out to the other posters just how wrong I believe your post to be.
My daughter has just left the camp for a few hours and here are a few things that she told me that will dispell some of the myths that have appeared here.
They are getting great support from the general public with very few negative remarks being made.
For example:
One member of the public appeared with a brand new tent and sleeping bag in case any of the tents were getting overcrowded. Without being asked.
Another appeared with two large bowls of curry, and large bowl of rice. Without being asked.
Another gave them 50 euro to get anything they needed. Without being asked.
They have had so many offers that they have had to make a list of things needed which is why a list appeared on facebook.
They have not asked for anything from the public but the public are offering.
They are camping on the hard concrete in order not to ruin the grass.
They have drawn up a list of rules for themselves which include not to make or leave any mess.
They are being as considerate as is possible yet still showing how they feel, in the same way as is happening in many countries around the world.0 -
Must say I'm happy that people that can't/won't camp out at least are showing support in other ways.0
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Must say I'm happy that people that can't/won't camp out at least are showing support in other ways.
Yes, I should have added that this was almost all that I heard about from my Daughter.
She is so impressed and, on her behalf, I would like to give a big thank you to all the general public supporters.
If my health were better I would be there even though I'm in my mid 60's.0 -
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Yes, I have a mortgage, but despite my negative equity I continue to pay it, how in the world does that make me part of the problem???
Your having the mortgage makes you part of the problem. Your participation in the economy for the past 15 years makes you part of the problem.
I don't (directly) have a mortgage. I pay rent. That makes me part of the problem.
Why?
We both helped to prop things up at a time when it was obvious to those that could see (and you claim to be one of them) that things should be going down the tubes.0 -
Hello Head The Wall, Please remember attack the post not the poster!! Please don't get personal with me and I won't get personal with you!!
Thanks for calling me foolish, but once again you are one of these BOARD EXPERTS that knows all!! If you were to walk in my shoes you would understand. I could tell you my life story, but obviously it wouldn't matter to you since you already know everything.
You "supposedly" predicted the crash and still fell for all that went with the boom, sorry that is foolish and I'm being kind using that word.Yes, I have a mortgage, but despite my negative equity I continue to pay it, how in the world does that make me part of the problem???
Developers can only charge what people were willing to pay, you were one of these people that were willing to pay stupid money for a house. As you can see from todays house prices there is less people willing to pay stupid money so we have cheaper houses. BTW unless you are in the process of selling your house negative equity means nothingYes, I predicted the crash over 10 years ago and maybe foolishly now didn't buy. I kept on calling a crash but the FF gov continued to prop up the housing market and things continued to spiral. I was renting a house getting screwed over by greedy landlords with a family and all kept telling us to BUY, BUY, BUT!! I was eventually forced to buy. Yes, I called it and didn't take my own advice, maybe stupid, maybe poor timing, call it what you will, I have to live with it. I didn't buy anything special, very basic and it was just barely within my means, but at that point even 1 bedroom apartments were out of range for most first time buyers. Despite the fact my house has negative equity and I have a big mortgage I still continue to pay my mortgage and I even did so when I was out of work for a while, unlike many others who got a lot more than I did!!
Stop digging a holeYou say you don't have a mortgage, so I assume you don't own a house or was one given to you? If you don't own and don't live with Mammy then you either have your head in a hole or you are renting. If you're single than maybe you're renting a room, if you're in your 20's fair enough, but if a bit older and you work hard and have a half way decent job then you deserve more. Try renting a house with a family, maybe you got lucky and found a nice landlord, although most aren't too nice. You say "No one has a right to buy a house", maybe not, but I find that poor in a country where most do own a house and many own several. Also with a government that never protected renters from greedy landlords, but was more interested in protecting the property bubble! Maybe we don't have a God given right to own a house, but I think we do have a God given right to have children!! I'm not asking anyone to pay for my kids. So what I'm reading from you, no one should own a house or have kids! I'm not on social welfare and I am supporting my family, but i don't want to help support banks and developers too!!
I have been renting since 1994 so I know plenty about the market. I have never had any issues or problems. I have always paid what I considered a fair affordable price for my wage level even during the boom when I was here, I have never been homeless or lived in a crappy rental not even as a student and I wasn't raised with a silver spoon in my mouth either.
I never said people don't have the right to have kids or a house, it's when people can't afford them that an issue arises.I'm confused, you don't own a house, you live in a hole in the wall and you probably have to leave the country because of the mess and you are not angry at any government, developers or banks and you see nothing wrong with the current laws, taxes and policies and you get angry at people peacefully protesting trying to fix things. Maybe their fight is futile, but at least they are trying not running away!!!
You obviously have a real chip on your shoulder and if you feel people have no right to a house or kids and you want to leave the country, maybe you should go to China, I hear there are plenty of jobs there!!
I have no chip on my shoulder at all, I'm actually leaving a job here to go to the UK as the OH is going over there to finish college. Due to the fact that I don't have a house I can just up and leave, previous decisions that I have made allow me to do that.
Yes the govt are a shower of muppets, but I never have and never will expect too much of politicians, they are like most salespeople i.e liars. It's up to ourselves to make the most of our lives and try to avoid the pitfalls that come along in life.
I also didn't say that I am angry at the protesters, I go along with some of the posters here that say they are demands are futile and don't really get to the root of the problems in our country which have led Ireland to this sorry juncture in its existence0 -
Antoobrien your logic is flawed. So you are saying everyone is part of the problem. I spoke out and complained about the prices of houses at the time and all acted like I was crazy and I was even called a begrudger 10 years ago for not buying a house. I remember when they had initially stopped landlords from getting mortgage relief and house prices and rents started to stabilise and the landlords protested and FF backed down and gave it back to them, now myself and many others are in negative equity with no mortgage relief. I felt I had no choice because of my family situation and I had to buy a house, just like you had no choice and had to rent. How could people that were backed into a corner be part of the problem? What were our options other than camping out in Eyre Square??antoobrien wrote: »Your having the mortgage makes you part of the problem. Your participation in the economy for the past 15 years makes you part of the problem.
I don't (directly) have a mortgage. I pay rent. That makes me part of the problem.
Why?
We both helped to prop things up at a time when it was obvious to those that could see (and you claim to be one of them) that things should be going down the tubes.0 -
Head The Wall wrote: »
I'm actually leaving a job here to go to the UK ....
demands are futile
So just give up and run away!!!!0 -
I felt I had no choice because of my family situation and I had to buy a house, just like you had no choice and had to rent. How could people that were backed into a corner be part of the problem? What were our options other than camping out in Eyre Square??
Lying to yourself won't solve anything, you did have a choice - 1) stay renting or 2) Buy a house.
Plenty of people chose option number 10 -
At least I can read the posts, something you seem unable to do0
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Antoobrien your logic is flawed. So you are saying everyone is part of the problem.
Everyone was greedy.
Everyone wanted more and were willing to pay through the nose for it (you with your now negative equity mortgage are a prime example).
Everyone that spent money fueled the cycle.
The more money that went into the system the more the banks saw was available.
The banks offered more money in loans than was prudent.
We borrowed more than was prudent.
Many people didn't save/save enough.
We mistook borrowings for wealth.
We didn't realize that they (borrowings) had to be paid back
No my logic is not flawed, yes everybody was responsible. Nobody forced us to borrow, we did it because we wanted to have something we couldn't afford with out of pocket spending.
No, there is no way one person could say stop.
That doesn't relieve us of collective responsibility for the mess we are in.
By the way why should I subsidize your mortgage (through taxes to prop up the banks, bank fees etc)? Rhetorical question don't answer.
It's a macro economic issue, one that many people are too small minded to see.
You saw the ripple effect of the collapse of Lehman brothers through the worldwide economy. They had about €560 billion in debt. Ireland's banks were guaranteed to the tune of €400 billion.
Lehmans gave the world economy a hell of a beating.
We would give it another good kick. Maybe strong enough to put us back in the 30s.
Why? We, as a nation, mistook borrowings for earnings.0 -
Bozacke, saying you had no choice but to buy a home you call a dirty semi is beyond ridiculous, unless you were forced at gunpoint to take out a mortgage then you had a choice. Of course you knew the future as you have clearly stated and was sure that the house you bought was going to depreciate significantly in value as you say you forsaw the burst but you went ahead an bought it anyway because "you were forced too". I'd wager that you guessed based on your circumstances at the time that you'd be better off financially with the house and wasn't quite so convinced that the burst would come so soon or so greatly and so made the jump into a mortgage hoping you'd come out well on the deal. It backfired on you and now you are bitter. If the bubble hadn't burst and house prices had doubled again in value from 2007 to 2011 and those protesting now in 2011 were the renters who couldn't afford houses due to escalating value you would be the one on here criticising the renters for not getting on board like you did back in the day and thus missing the gravy train.
You gambled, you lost, deal with it. If you won, you would not be bitter, nor would you be so interested in ecomomic protests.
And YES, i have a serious problem with my taxes propping up banks that gave the likes of you over inflated mortgages. Maybe the renters should have their own protests against the banks and the irresponsible mortgage holders or do you believe in a socialist viewpoint that the prudent should pay for the mistakes of those who make unwise financial choices. I wonder how the Germans feel about the Greeks and the Irish, probably the same as i feel towards those who over borrowed and thus over inflated the economy.0 -
Head The Wall / Bozacke. Either you two chill the jets or I will ban you.
There's a line between discussing and thread fighting and you are now on the wrong side.0 -
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I'm sorry, but I beg to differ, not everyone was greedy. Some like myself just needed a place to live. I rented for years and had many problems and I reached a point in my life and that of my family that I had to buy. I wasn't greedy and I had no plans on trying to make a few bob, just looking for a house! I didn't buy something I "couldn't afford", although I paid too much for it.antoobrien wrote: »Everyone was greedy.
Everyone wanted more and were willing to pay through the nose for it (you with your now negative equity mortgage are a prime example).
Everyone that spent money fueled the cycle.
The more money that went into the system the more the banks saw was available.
The banks offered more money in loans than was prudent.
We borrowed more than was prudent.
Many people didn't save/save enough.
We mistook borrowings for wealth.
We didn't realize that they (borrowings) had to be paid back
Yes, the banks giving 100% mortgages and FF modifying the laws to suit investors helped keep the bubble going.
I am not and I never did ask for anything. The only thing I'm asking for is a better system and accountability for those that caused the problem. After all the billions this country owes, still no one has gone to jail, yet if you or I stole a chicken from Tesco they'd lock us up!
The only reason i started posting in this thread is because this country is messed up. People are protesting. Maybe their messaged is mixed and not too clear, but at least they are making an effort and all I see on this board are people giving out about them. Maybe they won't change anything, but as long as they don't get in your way and clean up after themselves why should it bother you? But you won't change anything unless you try, who would have thought that Mohamed Bouazizi would have had such an impact on the world, now I'm not saying we should be as extreme as him, but change has to start somewhere and unless you think we have a perfect system i can't understand why you would complain about people protesting about a bad situation!0
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This discussion has been closed.
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