Should Trinity have cancelled the Nick Griffin talk?

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 2:52pm

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Let him talk so people can see how ridiculous his ideas are. Banning him gives some sort of power to his views.

What purpose does it serve to ridicule people who hold differing opinions?

sensibleken · 14-10-2011 2:54pm

orourkeda wrote: »

What purpose does it serve to ridicule people who hold differing opinions?

its funny!

Pherekydes · 14-10-2011 2:54pm

orourkeda wrote: »

Everbody is a racist.

No, everyone is not a racist.

As for Griffin, if he were a Boards poster, how long do you think it'd take him to get himself permasitebanned?

Just remember, there is no freedom of speech.

My name is URL · 14-10-2011 2:55pm

orourkeda wrote: »

Indeed it is. But then how many people dont harbour some form of prejudice.

Harboring a prejudice is one thing, but forcing it on everyone else is quite another. The people who protested against his appearance should take a good look at themselves and at least try to see the hypocrisy they displayed by doing so. It just goes to show that some people on the 'left' are just as, or even more conservative as the people they so regularly deride.

desertcircus · 14-10-2011 2:56pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

My name is URL wrote: »

It's kind of ironic that the outrage stemmed mainly from people who consider themselves to be free-thinking and progressive liberals. I thought that silencing dissenting or controversial voices was a right-wing thing.

The left is the biggest problem in our society now. All these illegal immigrants coming into our countries, getting all the free benefits they want and then abusing "human rights" to stay in the countries.

Give me a break. Bigger than collapsing banks, debt crises, mortgage debt, the Catholic Church's attitude to paedophile priests? Name all these benefits illegal immigrants get. Go on, I dare you.

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 2:57pm

sensibleken wrote: »

its funny!

Great.

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 2:59pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

No, everyone is not a racist.

As for Griffin, if he were a Boards poster, how long do you think it'd take him to get himself permasitebanned?

Just remember, there is no freedom of speech.

Everyone is prejudiced to some degree. It may not necessarily be along racial lines

Anyone who say they are not is a barefaced liar.

There is no true freedom of speech. I agree.

Eramen · 14-10-2011 3:02pm

Leftist wrote: »

Nah, ban him, his kind are dangerous.

People are easily swayed, just look at the amount of people on here that hate foreigners. They'd love him.

Irish people in general don't hate foreigners. They have concerns about the social-economic policy of mass-immigration that brought about unprecedented cultural, ethnic and religious shifts. They hate the fact that they were not consulted on this, by either our government or anyone else.

Also, this seems to be a special topic were there is no discussion allowed in any fashion on the outcome or end goal of these immense national shifts; and so the Irish (and many other people all over the globe) have now become disillusioned with it.

And we pride ourselves on being a democracy.. :rolleyes:

KeithAFC · 14-10-2011 3:02pm

desertcircus wrote: »

Give me a break. Bigger than collapsing banks, debt crises, mortgage debt, the Catholic Church's attitude to paedophile priests? Name all these benefits illegal immigrants get. Go on, I dare you.

Tens of thousands of illegal migrant workers could be claiming benefits due to a legal "loophole" in the welfare system, the Government said.

The Department for Work and Pensions said that as the law stood, illegal immigrants could still claim employment and support allowance and statutory payments such as maternity or paternity pay and sick pay.

Officials estimate that 155,000 people working illegally could currently be in a position to claim at least one of the benefits.

A DWP spokesman said last night that measures in the Welfare Reform Bill, to be published shortly, would close the loophole.

"We will shortly be bringing forward a Welfare Reform Bill to radically overhaul the benefits system, ensuring that work always pays and that fairness is at its heart," the spokesman said.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23922955-thousands-of-illegal-immigrants-exploiting-loophole-to-claim-benefits.do

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:02pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Harboring a prejudice is one thing, but forcing it on everyone else is quite another. The people who protested against his appearance should take a good look at themselves and at least try to see the hypocrisy they displayed by doing so. It just goes to show that some people on the 'left' are just as, or even more conservative as the people they so regularly deride.

I agree. Prejudice affects everyone to some extent. That's just the way life is.

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:04pm

Eramen wrote: »

Irish people in general don't hate foreigners. They hate the social-economic policy of mass-immigration that brought about unprecedented cultural, ethnic and religious shifts. They were not consulted on this, by either our government or anyone else.

Also, this seems to be a special topic were there is no discussion allowed in any fashion on the outcome or end goal of these immense national shifts; and so the Irish (and many other people all over the globe) have now become disillusioned with it.

And we pride ourselves on being a democracy.. :rolleyes:

The national broadcaster being the main culprit of course. They leave no room for any sort of discourse

mcmoustache · 14-10-2011 3:04pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

The left is the biggest problem in our society now. All these illegal immigrants coming into our countries, getting all the free benefits they want and then abusing "human rights" to stay in the countries.

Have you no sense of irony or are you just trolling?

sensibleken · 14-10-2011 3:05pm

Eramen wrote: »

Irish people in general don't hate foreigners. They have concerns about the social-economic policy of mass-immigration that brought about unprecedented cultural, ethnic and religious shifts. They were not consulted on this, by either our government or anyone else.

Also, this seems to be a special topic were there is no discussion allowed in any fashion on the outcome or end goal of these immense national shifts; and so the Irish (and many other people all over the globe) have now become disillusioned with it.

And we pride ourselves on being a democracy.. :rolleyes:

speak for yourself buddy. a lot of irish people welcome cultural, ethnic and religious shifts, not to mention better looking shifts

Wolfe Tone · 14-10-2011 3:06pm

K-9 wrote: »

Nothing too surprising but I was surprised at the criticism of that appearance. He's a decent speaker on his own, when he can rant about immigrants, but in a debate situation, pretty weak.

I was surprised about the secrecy at the end when the reporter was being taken to meet him

RayM · 14-10-2011 3:07pm

Eramen wrote: »

Irish people in general don't hate foreigners. They have concerns about the social-economic policy of mass-immigration that brought about unprecedented cultural, ethnic and religious shifts. They hate the fact that they were not consulted on this, by either our government or anyone else.

Apart from a handful of obsessive right-wing cranks on the internet, I've encountered very few Irish people who have concerns about the consequences of immigration.

Eramen · 14-10-2011 3:09pm

sensibleken wrote: »

speak for yourself buddy. a lot of irish people welcome cultural, ethnic and religious shifts, not to mention better looking shifts

I never said anything to the contrary of what you're saying. Don't take it personally.

Many Irish have concerns, this is unmistakeable. This is will happen in a society of free-thought, limited as it is!

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:09pm

sensibleken wrote: »

speak for yourself buddy. a lot of irish people welcome cultural, ethnic and religious shifts, not to mention better looking shifts

A lot of irish people dont welcome these changes to the same degree. But some people think that shouldnt be expressed because it doesnt fit in with their view.

Morlar · 14-10-2011 3:09pm

RayM wrote: »

Apart from a handful of obsessive right-wing cranks on the internet, I've encountered very few Irish people who have concerns about the consequences of immigration.

That's funny, I have encountered very few who don't have concerns in this general area.

Mike 1972 · 14-10-2011 3:09pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Should Trinity have cancelled the Nick Griffin talk?

Shouldnt have invited him in the first place.

Mind you the whole thing was probably a publicity stunt for the debating society in the first place like they did with that other nutter Irving back in the day.

Maybe the Irish Government should have stopped him coming into the country like the UK did with that Dutch fruitcake.

desertcircus · 14-10-2011 3:12pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

desertcircus wrote: »

Give me a break. Bigger than collapsing banks, debt crises, mortgage debt, the Catholic Church's attitude to paedophile priests? Name all these benefits illegal immigrants get. Go on, I dare you.

Tens of thousands of illegal migrant workers could be claiming benefits due to a legal "loophole" in the welfare system, the Government said.

The Department for Work and Pensions said that as the law stood, illegal immigrants could still claim employment and support allowance and statutory payments such as maternity or paternity pay and sick pay.

Officials estimate that 155,000 people working illegally could currently be in a position to claim at least one of the benefits.

A DWP spokesman said last night that measures in the Welfare Reform Bill, to be published shortly, would close the loophole.

"We will shortly be bringing forward a Welfare Reform Bill to radically overhaul the benefits system, ensuring that work always pays and that fairness is at its heart," the spokesman said.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23922955-thousands-of-illegal-immigrants-exploiting-loophole-to-claim-benefits.do

So your evidence is a loophole already being closed in a country clearly different to the one I was talking about. I see.

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:12pm

RayM wrote: »

Apart from a handful of obsessive right-wing cranks on the internet, I've encountered very few Irish people who have concerns about the consequences of immigration.

This is your experience. Perhaps the experiences of other will differ.

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:13pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Shouldnt have invited him in the first place.

Mind you the whole thing was probably a publicity stunt for the debating society in the first place like they did with that other nutter Irving back in the day.

Maybe the Irish Government should have stopped him coming into the country like the UK did with that Dutch fruitcake.

Maybe they should stop more than British Politicians from coming into the country

Chairman Meow · 14-10-2011 3:14pm

Freedom of speech works both ways. You may not agree with his views, but hes a right to air them, as much as youve a right to air yours. Its hypocritical to disallow him the right to speak, especially considering his opinions are mornonic and would be torn to shreds anyway.

Eramen · 14-10-2011 3:15pm

RayM wrote: »

Apart from a handful of obsessive right-wing cranks on the internet, I've encountered very few Irish people who have concerns about the consequences of immigration.

I don't think you are being quite honest.. I see it practically everyday.

Often you encounter people with these concerns it in the most unusual places and ways, but it's there.

We should work in a direction that goes to settling these gigantic social and economic concerns and problems. There is nothing 'wrong' about them, they are natural, and very legitimate. People like us should take the initiative to resolve this, or we can ignore it and less trustworthy characters will do it. Take your pick.

Biggins · 14-10-2011 3:15pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Was in two minds about it myself but they probably should have let the scumbag talk, so he could be challenged on his bile in a debate format.

Exact same thoughts.

mikemac · 14-10-2011 3:16pm

A new viewpoint can be listened to, the left haven't a clue

“It is a deliberate misrepresentation to suggest that tens of thousands will suddenly descend en masse on Ireland . . . The expected trickle of immigration will on balance benefit the Irish economy. I estimate that fewer than 2000 will choose our distant shores each year.” (Prionsais de Rossa August 2002).

And him an MEP and supposed to know what is happening in Europe

pragmatic1 · 14-10-2011 3:16pm

orourkeda wrote: »

The fact that you think his views are ridiculous shouldnt preclude him from expressing them.

You must have misread my comment. I dont think he should be banned from speaking. I actually think its dangerous to try and prevent freedom of speech.

sensibleken · 14-10-2011 3:16pm

Morlar wrote: »

That's funny, I have encountered very few who don't have concerns in this general area.

Maybe you just get too many taxis

My name is URL · 14-10-2011 3:17pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Maybe the Irish Government should have stopped him coming into the country like the UK did with that Dutch fruitcake.

He was invited to debate his views in an academic setting ffs, not preach to people on the streets. Why should he be banned from entering the country? And what criteria should be considered when people are going to be banned from speaking here? Slippery slope don't you think? Sure let's ban all contrarians!

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:18pm

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Freedom of speech works both ways. You may not agree with his views, but hes a right to air them, as much as youve a right to air yours. Its hypocritical to disallow him the right to speak, especially considering his opinions are mornonic and would be torn to shreds anyway.

If this is true (and I've never seen him speak) whats the issue? Why ban him? Surely the intellectual prowess of his opposition that you insinuate in this post will render his opinions and views meaningless. Therefore can we assume that banning him is pointless on these grounds?

Mike 1972 · 14-10-2011 3:19pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

He should be allowed to speak. Freedom of speech is important.

So Keith if Section 31 were still on the statute books you would be calling for its removal right ?

pragmatic1 · 14-10-2011 3:20pm

orourkeda wrote: »

What purpose does it serve to ridicule people who hold differing opinions?

Because all opinions are not equal. Some are just stupid and deserving of ricicule.

KeithAFC · 14-10-2011 3:20pm

desertcircus wrote: »

So your evidence is a loophole already being closed in a country clearly different to the one I was talking about. I see.

I did say countries. It is a big problem in society now like I said. I think Irish people should be allowed to put a different view point across in the Republic. The fact that Nick Griffin has basically been chased away tells you all you need to know.

Biggins · 14-10-2011 3:21pm

* If we believe in the freedom of expression - you do or you don't - then you have to allow things to be said you might not personally agree with.

* If you hear things you do not agree with, you can sit back and do nothing or you can do what you think is right and inform where the other is wrong, possible exposing to the public, any falsehoods or misconceptions.

* If we start stopping people from freedom of expression, some day it might be you or I that is being stopped as such halting methods are abused and turn around to bite us all in the backside!

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:24pm

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Because all opinions are not equal. Some are just stupid and deserving of ricicule.

Because you said so?

InkSlinger67 · 14-10-2011 3:24pm

Why not let him speak in an institution created by The Queen?

I've heard the man speak in the past - for the most part, it's drivel. Any time I've seen him get into policy disagreements with other politicians he's always come out the loser in any sensible-thinking person's eyes. He's an easy win tbh

Duke Leonal Felmet · 14-10-2011 3:25pm

It rings of the time when Geert Wilders was denied speaking in the UK, because the muslim council (or some such organisation) subtley stated that violence would be the consquence. Not a direct threat, but you could clearly see the intended message.

The thugs always win...

pragmatic1 · 14-10-2011 3:26pm

orourkeda wrote: »

Because you said so?

Yes.

steelcityblues · 14-10-2011 3:26pm

No.

Anti fascists become the new fascists, when they put up such a vehement campaign against somebody having a short public rant.

Millicent · 14-10-2011 3:27pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Probably the usual threat of violent protest from lefties that prompted it. Something similar happened in UCC about 3 years ago.

Lefties against freedom of speech. Riiiggghhhtt...

mcmoustache · 14-10-2011 3:27pm

For the record, I think he should have been allowed to speak. His ignorance needs to be exposed. Instead, TCD in their poor judgement have allowed this gobshíte to play the victim card.

listermint · 14-10-2011 3:27pm

Well the show on the BBC the other night exposed him for the Racist, Money Stealing Fraudulent EU Money Claiming Sham that he and his party are.

They are just built to scam money our of government / idiots who will give them party donations / and the EU coffers. Plus he does all this while spouting out racist bile about people taking jobs and taking UK benefit.

Its laughable that he was even given an audience and no i dont think he deserves and audience, not because of his policies but because he is a common run of the mill con man.

With terrible fashion sense.

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:28pm

Biggins wrote: »

* If we believe in the freedom of expression - you do or you don't - then you have to allow things to be said you might not personally agree with.

* If you hear things you do not agree with, you can sit back and do nothing or you can do what you think is right and inform where the other is wrong, possible exposing to the public, any falsehoods or misconceptions.

* If we start stopping people from freedom of expression, some day it might be you or I that is being stopped as such halting methods are abused and turn around to bite us all in the backside!

But opinions of this kind, by their very nature, are not factual and a matter of ones perception. One can disagree but a lot of views concerning race, religion etc are subjective.

Morlar · 14-10-2011 3:29pm

Millicent wrote: »

Lefties against freedom of speech. Riiiggghhhtt...

How would you characterise the left/right leanings of those opposed to Griffith speaking in this case ? Of course it's leftist in origin.

That does not mean all left leaning people are like this but all the people that are like this are left leaning. imo.

Mike 1972 · 14-10-2011 3:29pm

Biggins wrote: »

If we start stopping people from freedom of expression, some day it might be you or I that is being stopped as such halting methods are abused and turn around to bite us all in the backside!

On the other hand it has been shown time and time again that given the opportunity Griffin & his ilk would not hesitate to use the ultimate form of censorship against their opponents.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 14-10-2011 3:29pm

Millicent wrote: »

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Probably the usual threat of violent protest from lefties that prompted it. Something similar happened in UCC about 3 years ago.

Lefties against freedom of speech. Riiiggghhhtt...

Yes, it is right. Freedom of speech is not restricted to things that lefties agree with. That may come as a shock to you.

Millicent · 14-10-2011 3:29pm

orourkeda wrote: »

Everbody is a racist.

I love it when some people pretend to be all lovey dovey liberal just to sound popular

No they're not.

TheyKnowMyIP · 14-10-2011 3:29pm

Griffin is just talking racist bile. I support freedom of speech, but it seems a bit of a waste to waste money on a talk for him to talk ****e. You can say anything you like, as long as you have evidence to back it up.

orourkeda · 14-10-2011 3:30pm

listermint wrote: »

Well the show on the BBC the other night exposed him for the Racist, Money Stealing Fraudulent EU Money Claiming Sham that he and his party are.

They are just built to scam money our of government / idiots who will give them party donations / and the EU coffers. Plus he does all this while spouting out racist bile about people taking jobs and taking UK benefit.

Its laughable that he was even given an audience and no i dont think he deserves and audience, not because of his policies but because he is a common run of the mill con man.

With terrible fashion sense.

Theft and claiming money from the EU are not confined to right wing politicians.

Millicent · 14-10-2011 3:31pm

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Yes, it is right. Freedom of speech is not restricted to things that lefties agree with. That may come as a shock to you.

Um, no, no it doesn't. Liberals/lefties are for freedom of speech. Bigots, of any creed, ideology or political leaning, are not. There's a difference.

Should Trinity have cancelled the Nick Griffin talk?

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