Should Trinity have cancelled the Nick Griffin talk?

orourkeda

Millicent wrote: »

No they're not.

Of course they are. Everyone has a chip on their shoulder. Some are more pronounced than others but you only have to scratch the surface in a lot of cases.

listermint

Oh and BTW OP, I dont believe it was cancelled due to the policies of the BNP. It was cancelled because the party has been shown to be very prevalent in Fraud both in the UK and Europe.

Why give credence to a fraudster, it appears the BNP may have to be dissolved due to massive debt.

Morlar

Mike 1972 wrote: »

On the other hand it has been shown time and time again that given the opportunity Griffin & his ilk would not have hesitate to use the ultimate form of censorship against their opponents.

So let's clarify, you want to pre-emptively deny freedom of speech to those who, you, in your infinite unelected wisdom, believe may, if they were later in a position of power themselves, deny freedom of speech to others ?

Do you have any idea how retarded that is ?

'As part of my gun control platform I am going to shoot someone in the head in case they later buy a gun and decide to shoot someone in the head. That'll work'.

orourkeda

Millicent wrote: »

Um, no, no it doesn't. Liberals/lefties are for freedom of speech. Bigots, of any creed, ideology or political leaning, are not. There's a difference.

Should why did people want him banned from speaking. It was hardly his own kind that tried to stop him.

amacachi

KeithAFC wrote: »

The left is the biggest problem in our society now. All these illegal immigrants coming into our countries, getting all the free benefits they want and then abusing "human rights" to stay in the countries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FPimCmbX8

steelcityblues

listermint wrote: »

Well the show on the BBC the other night exposed him for the Racist, Money Stealing Fraudulent EU Money Claiming Sham that he and his party are.

They are just built to scam money our of government / idiots who will give them party donations / and the EU coffers. Plus he does all this while spouting out racist bile about people taking jobs and taking UK benefit.
[/B}

Using that argument - Labour, Tory and Lib Dem politicians should be banned from the airwaves in Britain too?

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

Oh and BTW OP, I dont believe it was cancelled due to the policies of the BNP. It was cancelled because the party has been shown to be very prevalent in Fraud both in the UK and Europe.

Why give credence to a fraudster, it appears the BNP may have to be dissolved due to massive debt.

The irish political class lead the way in defrauding the electorate. Lets not preach ethics here.

Millicent

orourkeda wrote: »

Of course they are. Everyone has a chip on their shoulder. Some are more pronounced than others but you only have to scratch the surface in a lot of cases.

No, honestly, they're not. You may speak for yourself, but you can't speak for anyone else. I'm not. Friends of mine aren't. Some other friends are. People aren't trying to come over all PC or whatever just because they say they're not racist. I could not give two shites what colour someone's skin is. I'm more concerned about character.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Millicent wrote: »

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Yes, it is right. Freedom of speech is not restricted to things that lefties agree with. That may come as a shock to you.

Um, no, no it doesn't. Liberals/lefties are for freedom of speech. Bigots, of any creed, ideology or political leaning, are not. There's a difference.

You just contradicted yourself...

Oh wait, there are no lefite bigots, right?

the_syco

It seems the Facist organisation SAF has blocked Griffin from coming along. Sure, why defend your view, when you can threaten the lives of people to stop someone discussing their view.

SOrt of like Facists like to do. Griffin isn't a saint, but this shows to me that SAF had a very very weak argument if the only way to win was to not let him in...!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/bnp-leader-banned-from-university-16064046.html

Trinity College Dublin has been forced into a U-turn on controversial plans to have British National Party (BNP) leader Nick Griffin join a debate on immigration.

The university said it could not guarantee the safety and wellbeing of staff and students and has warned the party leader he will not be allowed on campus next week.

BNP party members have also been banned from the city centre grounds for the event.

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

Theft and claiming money from the EU are not confined to right wing politicians.

never said they were. But the manner in which they went about it was so unsophisticated I dont know why anyone would want them as an MEP.


Fiddling electric bills and running power from one building to another.... Come on like. Why are we giving this guy airtime.

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

* If we believe in the freedom of expression - you do or you don't - then you have to allow things to be said you might not personally agree with.

Didn't know you were American. :pac:

mikemac

Mike 1972 wrote: »

On the other hand it has been shown time and time again that given the opportunity Griffin & his ilk would not have hesitate to use the ultimate form of censorship against their opponents.

Assasination?

It's the other side who are experts at that

Theo van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn both criticized multiculturalism and mass immigration and both were killed

orourkeda

Millicent wrote: »

No, honestly, they're not. You may speak for yourself, but you can't speak for anyone else. I'm not. Friends of mine aren't. Some other friends are. People aren't trying to come over all PC or whatever just because they say they're not racist. I could not give two shites what colour someone's skin is. I'm more concerned about character.

Anyone who tells you they are not prejudiced to some degree is a liar. Prejudice isnt always about skin colour.

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

The irish political class lead the way in defrauding the electorate. Lets not preach ethics here.

Whos preaching ethics ?

Im not.

But you think its okay to give credence to some corner street chancer making a fast buck and spouting off racist bile.

This conversation itself is giving them unwarranted publicity.

You might aswell have a racist Dellboy as an MEP.

Mike 1972

Morlar wrote: »

So let's clarify, you want to pre-emptively deny freedom of speech to those who, you, in your infinite unelected wisdom, believe may, if they were later in a position of power themselves, deny freedom of speech to others ?

My infinite unelected wisdom would not be required in this instance

Simple experience would suffice

super_furry

Freedom for everyone! We should struggle and fight with our comrades to ensure they enjoy the same kinds of freedom that is the right of all mankind. *

* As long as you're saying what we want you to say.

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

never said they were. But the manner in which they went about it was so unsophisticated I dont know why anyone would want them as an MEP.


Fiddling electric bills and running power from one building to another.... Come on like. Why are we giving this guy airtime.

So why use it as an argument? A left wing scammer is a scammer just the same. Regardless of the levels of sophistication.

A scammer is a scammer in my eyes.Their political persuasion is irrelevant here.

Sir Gallagher

orourkeda wrote: »

Anyone who tells you they are not prejudiced to some degree is a liar. Prejudice isnt always about skin colour.

What point are you trying to make exactly.

Millicent

Morlar wrote: »

How would you characterise the left/right leanings of those opposed to Griffith speaking in this case ? Of course it's leftist in origin.

That does not mean all left leaning people are like this but all the people that are like this are left leaning. imo.

See, this was actually my point. They're not against freedom of speech because of their ideology. They're against it because of their own personal bigotry. I'm (apparently, according to Boards) liberal, and I fully support freedom of speech, both as an individual and as a journalist.

Johro

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

You just contradicted yourself...

Oh wait, there are no lefite bigots, right?

'Bigots of ...., .... any political leaning'. Says it right there in post.

billybudd

KeithAFC wrote: »

The left is the biggest problem in our society now. All these illegal immigrants coming into our countries, getting all the free benefits they want and then abusing "human rights" to stay in the countries.

The ethnic cleansing that is happening in Belfast now with polish, Romanians etc etc is a better platform? Free from left wing do gooders?

sensibleken

orourkeda wrote: »

Anyone who tells you they are not prejudiced to some degree is a liar. Prejudice isnt always about skin colour.

You said everyone was racist. Now youre talking about prejudice. either you dont understand the difference or youre back pedaling

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

So why use it as an argument? A left wing scammer is a scammer just the same. Regardless of the levels of sophistication.

A scammer is a scammer in my eyes.Their political persuasion is irrelevant here.

Im really not sure what you are saying here?

You want to give credence to another scammer, on top of all the other scammers we have?

Is that what your looking to do? Because ive no idea what you are talking about.
The less we talk about this tool the quicker he will go away, and we can then vote out the remaining idiots that are already there.


So what exactly is your point ?

Biggins

amacachi wrote: »

Didn't know you were American. :pac:

I'm one with the universe.
Only my earthly feet fall on temporary named soils.

Millicent

orourkeda wrote: »

Should why did people want him banned from speaking. It was hardly his own kind that tried to stop him.

My point is, it's not because they are left wing that they were against freedom of speech. It's entirely because of prejudice against Mr. Griffin. I'm not happy to have all lefties tarred with the one brush here.

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

Whos preaching ethics ?

Im not.

But you think its okay to give credence to some corner street chancer making a fast buck and spouting off racist bile.

This conversation itself is giving them unwarranted publicity.

You might aswell have a racist Dellboy as an MEP.

You tried to use the scammer card. I' suggested that fraud isn't unique to British far right politicians. Surely you are aware that our own political class could teach the british a thing or two about how to pull a stroke.

Besides, the conservatives, lib dem and labour partyies scammed their OWN PEOPLE no so long ago.

So using the scammer card isnt unique to the BNP and using it as a stick to beat the BNP with specifically isnt a runner.

KeithAFC

billybudd wrote: »

The ethnic cleansing that is happening in Belfast now with polish, Romanians etc etc is a better platform? Free from left wing do gooders?

No. He doesn't seem to be able to get a platform in the Republic Of Ireland. So my suggestion was up here. That way it will be perfect for all concerned. I think it is only fair all sides of the debate get heard and time to speak.

Sir Gallagher

It seems these so called "lefties" are the new bogeyman of boards.ie.

orourkeda

Millicent wrote: »

My point is, it's not because they are left wing that they were against freedom of speech. It's entirely because of prejudice against Mr. Griffin. I'm not happy to have all lefties tarred with the one brush here.

So they are for free speech until the speaker says something they dont want to hear? Thats what I've gleamed.

billybudd

orourkeda wrote: »

Anyone who tells you they are not prejudiced to some degree is a liar. Prejudice isnt always about skin colour.

Anyone who is happy and content with life and has a positive outlook has no need for being racist or prejudice, lazy people are generally both.

Millicent

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

You just contradicted yourself...

Oh wait, there are no lefite bigots, right?

No I didn't. There is no one overarching "leftie" ideology, but these people were against Nick Griffin because they were bigoted against him, not because they were lefties. Can you really not see the distinction?

Badgermonkey

Millicent wrote: »

Um, no, no it doesn't. Liberals/lefties are for freedom of speech. Bigots, of any creed, ideology or political leaning, are not. There's a difference.

Didn't Richard Boyd Barrett make strenuous efforts to prevent arch-tit David Irving from partaking in a debate some time ago? UCC I seem to recall but could be mistaken on that.

Biggins

orourkeda wrote: »

But opinions of this kind, by their very nature, are not factual and a matter of ones perception. One can disagree but a lot of views concerning race, religion etc are subjective.

...And thus the freedom to express and state opposite opinion and fact, the public can live and learn!

"...and the truth shall set you free!"

If we start clamping down even on perceptions, where does it end?

Millicent

orourkeda wrote: »

Anyone who tells you they are not prejudiced to some degree is a liar. Prejudice isnt always about skin colour.

Then they're prejudiced, not racist.

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

Im really not sure what you are saying here?

You want to give credence to another scammer, on top of all the other scammers we have?

Is that what your looking to do? Because ive no idea what you are talking about.
The less we talk about this tool the quicker he will go away, and we can then vote out the remaining idiots that are already there.


So what exactly is your point ?

I'm not giving credence to scammers. My point is dont call Nick Griffin a scammer and conveniently leave out the fact that every major political party in the uk scammed their own people.

Pherekydes

orourkeda wrote: »

Anyone who tells you they are not prejudiced to some degree is a liar. Prejudice isnt always about skin colour.

That's the second time you've used this argument in this thread. You called everyone a racist and were told you were wrong. Your reply is to say everyone is prejudiced to some degree.

Prejudiced to some degree is not the same as racism.

Stop using the "everyone is racist" card to validate your own prejudices.

billybudd

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. He doesn't seem to be able to get a platform in the Republic Of Ireland. So my suggestion was up here. That way it will be perfect for all concerned. I think it is only fair all sides of the debate get heard and time to speak.

Because the majority in Ireland have no need for someone like him.

super_furry

Those who took the decision to uninvite him are cowardly idiots.

Banning him lends him an air of mystique and anti-authoritarianism. He can portray himself as the outside they're frightened to let speak and the victim who is being threatened with violence for his beliefs.

Nick Griffin isn't dangerous, he's a fool - just look at his UK Election performance on Question Time. If you let him speak, he'll hang himself with his idiocy.

orourkeda

Millicent wrote: »

Then they're prejudiced, not racist.

Yes. Thats fair to say.

Morlar

Millicent wrote: »

See, this was actually my point. They're not against freedom of speech because of their ideology. They're against it because of their own personal bigotry. I'm (apparently, according to Boards) liberal, and I fully support freedom of speech, both as an individual and as a journalist.

So you do accept then that the vast majority of those opposed to permitting Griffith to speak in this instance could reasonably be described as leftist ?

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

You tried to use the scammer card. I' suggested that fraud isn't unique to British far right politicians. Surely you are aware that our own political class could teach the british a thing or two about how to pull a stroke.

Besides, the conservatives, lib dem and labour partyies scammed their OWN PEOPLE no so long ago.

So using the scammer card isnt unique to the BNP and using it as a stick to beat the BNP with specifically isnt a runner.

I think youll find a used the second rate scammer card including racist bile to beat them with.

You still havent answered my question?

Why in the hell do YOU want another second rate racist fraud monger to get public credence? You keep on spouting back to Irish parties and UK parties and fraud, yet you seem to have an affinity to adding another one to the pile.

Please explain in detail because your steadily running out of track....

KeithAFC

billybudd wrote: »

Because the majority in Ireland have no need for someone like him.

In your opinion. Some people might not agree with you. Surely he should be allowed to speak?

billybudd

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

It seems these so called "lefties" are the new bogeyman of boards.ie.

I am no ''leftie'' whatever that is, i know right and wrong and i look up or down to no person.

Millicent

orourkeda wrote: »

So they are for free speech until the speaker says something they dont want to hear? Thats what I've gleamed.

What are you missing here? Seriously, I can't make it any simpler. These particular lefties are prejudiced, that's what you should have gleaned. They are not representative of lefties. Lefties, traditionally, support free speech, even that speech which they don't agree with.

orourkeda

Pherekydes wrote: »

That's the second time you've used this argument in this thread. You called everyone a racist and were told you were wrong. Your reply is to say everyone is prejudiced to some degree.

Prejudiced to some degree is not the same as racism.

Stop using the "everyone is racist" card to validate your own prejudices.

Now corrected.

I dont need to validate my prejudices to anyone. At least I accept them and admit them.

Stinicker

There an old saying "give a dog enough rope"..... and "He'll usually hang himself" the PC communist's who banned Griffin are actually playing it right into barrow wheras if they had allowed him talk he would probably have scored an own goal anyway. I don't care if he is calling for every muslims head on a plate or if he was a muslim calling for christian heads, whilst I may not agree with what the person has to say, I sure as hell will defend his right to say it, no matter how raving his/her statements are. It's called democracy and freedom, and in the words of Winston Churchill, Fascism will come again under the guise of anti-fascism and this is what we have witnessed here and else where with political correctness and "Winterfest" and the 1000 BCE instead of AD/BC, what a load of nonsense.

Millicent

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Didn't Richard Boyd Barrett make strenuous efforts to prevent arch-tit David Irving from partaking in a debate some time ago? UCC I seem to recall but could be mistaken on that.

I don't recall that one. Do you have a link handy?

billybudd

KeithAFC wrote: »

In your opinion. Some people might not agree with you. Surely he should be allowed to speak?

He can speak to his own citizens, last time i looked the BNP did not represent Irish voters.

orourkeda

Millicent wrote: »

What are you missing here? Seriously, I can't make it any simpler. These particular lefties are prejudiced, that's what you should have gleaned. They are not representative of lefties. Lefties, traditionally, support free speech, even that speech which they don't agree with.

Was this speech stopped as a response to their protests?