Moneenageisha Traffic Lights - How bad are they?

Mrs OBumble

thesandeman wrote: »

Strangly enough I regularly cross opposite the Western Hotel (just before the lights which very few people use) and I would guess at least 30% of drivers (excluding taxis) either wave me across or slow down....

Did you know that those who are waving are breaking the law? Apparently it's called "unauthorised direction of traffic" - and if someone does it during a driving test, it's an automatic fail.


While I can appreciate the "control free" approaches work well in limited situations, for short times, I just cannot see them being successfully applied to larger roads or on an on-going basis, because of the increased journey time needed if every intersection is like that.

Yes, ye can be considerate drivers in one-off situations. I'm just not sure you can do it all the time!

Iwannahurl

It's a bizarre notion that pedestrians and cyclists might depend on the kindness of strangers in motorised vehicles to let them use the roads in safety and comfort.

However, if charity is to replace the Rules of the Road, traffic legislation, transportation policy and a proper level of service for non car users, then I suggest that we up-end the current hierarchy: motorists to proceed according to the whim of pedestrians, cyclists and bus users.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

then I suggest that we up-end the current hierarchy: motorists to proceed according to the whim of pedestrians, cyclists and bus users.

that IS the way the current system works - after all motorists are not allowed plow through pedestrians or cyclists.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

that IS the way the current system works - after all motorists are not allowed plow through pedestrians or cyclists.

Er no, actually. There's the small matter of the law to factor in.

There are other factors also, such as traffic management and engineering practices, declared and undeclared transportation policies, traffic culture etc.

Waving at other road users sounds like an Irish solution to an Irish problem, IMO. Hans Monderman was Dutch, and he developed his concepts within that country's legal, social, traffic management and urban design frameworks.

Many of us can't even obey simple traffic laws in this country, such as those relating to parking, so I wouldn't be confident that arm-waving is a good basis for future transport planning.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Many of us can't even obey simple traffic laws in this country, such as those relating to parking, so I wouldn't be confident that arm-waving is a good basis for future transport planning.

Er, what about the ones controlling the use of pedestrian lights - you know the one that says you're supposed to wait for the green man?

what_traffic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It's a bizarre notion that pedestrians and cyclists might depend on the kindness of strangers in motorised vehicles to let them use the roads in safety and comfort.

I think "thesandeman" observations are very useful here. (noting that this traffic island can be promblematic for cyclists if they dont take the lane - pinch point)
Perhaps it does show a willingness that we can also adopt to a Hans Monderman world? Would agree with you we would need to change the laws first

what_traffic

JustMary wrote: »

While I can appreciate the "control free" approaches work well in limited situations, for short times, I just cannot see them being successfully applied to larger roads

Agree - would not work on a arterial road but in Galway's medival city centre it could work? As Iwannahurl says - would need to change the laws first though.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Er, what about the ones controlling the use of pedestrian lights - you know the one that says you're supposed to wait for the green man?

You are referring to traffic lights, which are legislated for.

They operate on a well-recognised system of green, amber and red lights, not a pop-up sign saying "I'd like to cross the road, Mr Motorist, if it pleases you".

It's illegal to break a red light. It's not illegal to ignore a pedestrian who's waiting at an uncontrolled crossing.

That's the key difference between people's whims and a legal-infrastructural framework that facilitates pedestrians, which is the point I was making following this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75035754&postcount=32

Iwannahurl

what_traffic wrote: »

I think "thesandeman" observations are very useful here. (noting that this traffic island can be promblematic for cyclists if they dont take the lane - pinch point)
Perhaps it does show a willingness that we can also adopt to a Hans Monderman world? Would agree with you we would need to change the laws first

I'm sceptical.

Is it likely that Irish motorists would successfully embrace Monderman's principles when so many of them can't or won't even embrace the concept of our existing road traffic laws? Speeding, mobile phones, dangerous overtaking, obnoxious parking -- the list is seemingly endless, the enforcement definitely finite.

ScumLord

JustMary wrote: »

Did you know that those who are waving are breaking the law? Apparently it's called "unauthorised direction of traffic" - and if someone does it during a driving test, it's an automatic fail.

Does that mean if I start waving out people doing the driving test at all sorts of junctions they'd probably fail the test?

Mrs OBumble

ScumLord wrote: »

Does that mean if I start waving out people doing the driving test at all sorts of junctions they'd probably fail the test?

Only if they wave back!