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Rental Accomodation Scheme DCC issue

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  • 14-10-2011 9:24pm
    #1
    blueray45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭


    Hello,

    i have rented my apt from RAS since 2 years ago, now my husband joined me in ireland with my son, i took them to RAS at Dublin city council to add their names with me in the apt.
    they keep terrorizing us by letters every now and then saying "your husband and your son have no permission to reside with you and they should move out immediately".......!

    Is that right? my husband cant live with me only coz im renting an apt under RAS ?

    Please help me and advise me of what to do.

    thanks a lot


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    #2
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    You have to remember that the RAS scheme is a three way contract between you and the council, the council and the property owner, and the property owner and you.

    You were assessed as meeting the criteria for housing under the RAS scheme in your own capacity and assigned accommodation that was then available in the RAS pool, in the council area for which you were assessed.

    This is a contractual obligation between you and the council (who administer the scheme as a social welfare support with Social and Family Protection and also via the Department of the Environment (not sure why they're involved).

    You are in breach of your agreement with the council by bringing other people to live into the accommodation that they have supplied to you- irrespective of who they are.

    Simultaneously- you are also contractually obliged to the Landlord (the owner of the property) under the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act.

    The contractual agreement with the landlord most probably states a maximum number of residents in any particular dwelling- alongside a stipulation that you cannot sublet, either for monetary gain for not for monetary gain, without the prior agreement of the landlord, and in the case of an RAS property- also the agreement of the council.

    With RAS- you have two separate sets of people you have to keep onside- the owner of the property- and the council who are administering the scheme on behalf of Social Welfare and the Dept. of the Environment.

    You really need to get proper advice on this- but a cursory reading is that the Council are actually correct, wrong though you may think they are- that your husband and/or children should not be dwelling in the property with you.

    Given that you qualified for a RAS property in your own right- it would appear highly probable that your whole family might also qualify- for a different property better suitable to your needs- this is something I'd be asking immediately. As it stands- you are most probably in breach of two separate contracts- you need to get advice on this immediately.


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    #3
    blueray45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭blueray45


    thanks for your reply.

    my husband and my son joined me in Ireland under Family Reunification and the Minister For Justice letter of decision states clearly "permission has now been given for your husband to travel to the state and reside with you".
    and also during the process of Family Reunification, the Minister requested my RAS apartment contract and examined it to see if my husband and son can reside with me or not.

    and when i was signing the contract, i told the person from RAS that my family will join me later when they come to Ireland by FR and he replied "no problem".

    While RAS keeps neglecting the Minister decision of FR and keeps ignoring the relationship of these 2 persons to me and only state their names and that they should move out of the apartment without stating the options for me or advising me of what to do.

    So am i breaching the contract or RAS are breaching the Department of Justice decision and the Refugee act?


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    #4
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    blueray45 wrote: »
    ...or RAS are breaching the Department of Justice decision and the Refugee act?
    In a word, no. The decision made by the Dept. of Justice saying that your family may reside with you in Ireland doesn't actually mean that they have permission to stay in any specific dwelling.
    smccarrick wrote: »
    ...also via the Department of the Environment (not sure why they're involved).
    The Dept. of Environment are normally involved in matters of social housing (which RAS is). They provide the capital funding to build social housing, for example.


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    #5
    blueray45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭blueray45


    the family reunification process doesn't take approx 2 years to result at the end for my husband to come to reside in Ireland just like that.
    the decision doesn't say to come and join you in Ireland or come and reside with you in Ireland, it says clearly to travel to the state ( that's the location ) and to reside with you ( I don't think that means anything but to reside in the same apartment ).
    + it's not logical that a country and a government allows a spouse to join his wife and a minor department refuses.
    and to my understanding, the Minister of Justice is the highest of all persons actually in Ireland.


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    #6
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    blueray45 wrote: »
    the family reunification process doesn't take approx 2 years to result at the end for my husband to come to reside in Ireland just like that.
    the decision doesn't say to come and join you in Ireland or come and reside with you in Ireland, it says clearly to travel to the state ( that's the location ) and to reside with you ( I don't think that means anything but to reside in the same apartment ).
    + it's not logical that a country and a government allows a spouse to join his wife and a minor department refuses.
    and to my understanding, the Minister of Justice is the highest of all persons actually in Ireland.
    Well, I'm sorry but your understanding is wrong.

    The decision made by the Dept. of Justice means that your family are entitled to live with you if you can find suitable accommodation. As has been mentioned, you were assessed for RAS as a single person with no partner or dependants and were awarded RAS for same. Your circumstances have now changed and you may have to apply again as a family.

    Edit: What size is the property you are living in now? Is it a one-bedroom apartment? Maybe over-crowding is the reason they are refusing you to live there with your family.


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    #7
    blueray45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭blueray45


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Your circumstances have now changed and you may have to apply again as a family.

    exactly, they offered no options, they keep repeating their names without mentioning their relationships to me and say they should move out immediately.

    Can i go to SWO and ask him if i can leave RAS and return to rent supplement for me and my husband?

    The apt is 2 rooms, 4 beds.

    in all countries and maybe the logic, someone renting an apt is entitled to do watever he wants with it except renting it to other persons. but to monitor the people's moves, thats a bit hitler's way :S


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    #8
    blueray45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭blueray45


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    The decision made by the Dept. of Justice means that your family are entitled to live with you if you can find suitable accommodation.



    I believe i have already mentioned that the dep of justice has examined my contract with RAS along with the apartment size and the number of beds in it.

    + RAS contract does not really restrict me having family living with me, i dunno why Dublin City council terrorising us, even the landlord has no problems with my husband and son being with me. unless some racism issues related, they should not terrorise us like that.


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    #9
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    You are being bullied. The family enjoy special protection in the constitution. You cannot be forced to live apart from your family. Go to an immigration solicitor.


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    #10
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    blueray45 wrote: »
    in all countries and maybe the logic, someone renting an apt is entitled to do watever he wants with it except renting it to other persons. but to monitor the people's moves, thats a bit hitler's way :S
    Don't get many threads in A&P being Godwined.

    The thing is, the council are paying nearly the full amount of your rent as you were obviously unable to provide housing from your own means when you applied. Your circumstances have now changed and you will now have to be assessed on whatever new income is coming into the household when your husband starts working/claiming benefits.

    This would be the same for any Irish person, so please don't play the racism card. It doesn't do anybody any favours.


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    #11
    blueray45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭blueray45


    any foreigner in a country if he is bullied like our friend said, he should believe straight forward that it is racism. in my country when you have a guest in your home, you should treat him better than you treat your family.
    So if this happens to Irish ppl aswell, it is not nice to happen to foreign ppl specially refugees who came to Ireland for protection.

    But you are wrong, this does not happen to Irish ppl aswell, i have many friends who have their sisters and brothers living with them and no one bullies them.

    + look at the housing waiting list and the amount of work the Dublin City Council should do but they do it slowly on purpose though, but which one is better, the employees wasting their time there getting shelters for homeless ppl who are waiting on the huuuuge list? or harassing and playing idiocy on one family??

    Did you see the file storage machine there and how it takes files and store them underground, it has like millions of files, yet they don't work on those people waiting on the list but hay..... they just don't want an old woman to have her husband living with her.


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    #12
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    OP- once you start suggesting racism and bringing Hitler into any debate here- its a foregone conclusion that all you're going to do is polarize views, and very little of further constuctive nature is going to occur.

    Accusing the council of racism is not going to get you anywhere whatsoever with them.

    You need to apply to the council either under the RAS scheme (or another scheme) for accommodation for you *and your family*. You have been allocated accommodation as a single person by the council- not as a family unit.

    You can go on and on about how you think the opinion of the Minister for Justice trumps anything the council may decide- its a democracy here however- and the simple statement is- no, the decision of the council is nothing whatsoever to do with the Minister for Justice.

    I would suggest that you forget about taking a confrontational approach with the council- certainly have your facts at hand, but be civil and reasonable with them- and you get sorted. If you start playing the racism card and bringing Hitler into your discussion with them- you will meet a brick wall of your own construction.......

    There has been a misunderstanding here on several levels.

    I am closing this thread now- if you want it reopened- PM both moderators.

    Regards,

    SMcCarrick


This discussion has been closed.
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