Why don't we have free healthcare?

Dyr

The same reason we don't have any decent social infrastructure in this country: because its overrun with miserable curtain twitching bollixes.

UsernameInUse

UsernameInUse wrote: »

You people have been told to think this is the only way. It's not.

Why must all the doctors be on one side of the room to the rest of us? If you got rid of the licensing laws and regulations, you'd have Free Market healthcare - meaning, one doctor from across the room yells out that he'll treat you for €1000, then another yells out that he'll do it for €500. Then the two look at each other and start beating the **** outta each other for your money. Meanwhile, another group of doctors step forward and tell you that they'll do it for €100 which includes a comfortable financial plan where you pay back €1 a week if you so wish.

Christ....some people are propping up this scam we can healthcare.

Wow, what a fantastic idea.

You really have no idea how medical training and registration works do you?

UsernameInUse

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow, what a fantastic idea.

You really have no idea how medical training and registration works do you?

Actually, I do.

Which is the reason I am proposing getting rid of it altogether. Welcome to the Austro School of Economics.

UsernameInUse

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Actually, I do.

Which is the reason I am proposing getting rid of it altogether. Welcome to the Austro School of Economics.

Really, that's quite scary then. You're saying that you want the licencing laws abolished so that absolutley anyone could call themselves a doctor and practice medicine in this country.

UsernameInUse

Deleted User wrote: »

Really, that's quite scary then. You're saying that you want the licencing laws abolished so that absolutley anyone could call themselves a doctor and practice medicine in this country.

Absolutely.

What is wrong using your brain to determine whether or not someone has the legitimate credentials to practice medicine. It's called the right to earn a living. We've only had these laws for a few years. Let the doctors compete for your money, as well as insurance companies. Let these people battle it out, not us.

We're the benefactors, the people. Free your mind. It's called the free Market. Or in other words, Capitalism. What we have now is Corporatism. Protecting people is nothing more than Corporatism.

storm2811

I thought it was a pretty fair system..no?
Like you get a medical card if you're under a certain income limit isn't it?
And those over the limit don't.
Though I could be completely wrong.:pac:

MOSSAD

Why should we have free health care? Maybe it's time for people to prioritise how they spend-buy your health insurance before you fork out on that trip to Lanzarote or 40 fags a day or a flat screen tv in each room.

44leto

storm2811 wrote: »

I thought it was a pretty fair system..no?
Like you get a medical card if you're under a certain income limit isn't it?
And those over the limit don't.
Though I could be completely wrong.:pac:

People on low income are not entitled to one, so it cuts out quality care for some people who can't afford the whole business of being sick, doctor, prescriptions etc. In other places, such as Britain, they are all free.

BUT surely people realise there is no-way on Earth we could afford a universal free health system. The health budget is nearly 18 billion there is noway we could add anything more to that.

It also has to be said when you get into the system, our health service is excellent, it really is top quality care. Unfortunately I am aware of how good it is as both my parents were along time in the system.

UsernameInUse

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Absolutely.

What is wrong using your brain to determine whether or not someone has the legitimate credentials to practice medicine. It's called the right to earn a living. We've only had these laws for a few years. Let the doctors compete for your money, as well as insurance companies. Let these people battle it out, not us.

We're the benefactors, the people. Free your mind. It's called the free Market. Or in other words, Capitalism. What we have now is Corporatism. Protecting people is nothing more than Corporatism.

So you want us to be the only country in the world not to have a system of licencing for medical practitioners?

Hi everybody!

Hi Dr. Nick!

Suryavarman

Deleted User wrote: »

So you want us to be the only country in the world not to have a system of licencing for medical practitioners?

Hi everybody!

Hi Dr. Nick!

Why not? The sole purpose of medical licensing laws is to protect doctors from competition.

Jopari87

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Absolutely.

What is wrong using your brain to determine whether or not someone has the legitimate credentials to practice medicine. It's called the right to earn a living. We've only had these laws for a few years. Let the doctors compete for your money, as well as insurance companies. Let these people battle it out, not us.

We're the benefactors, the people. Free your mind. It's called the free Market. Or in other words, Capitalism. What we have now is Corporatism. Protecting people is nothing more than Corporatism.

What will happen is the demand for the best doctors will increase, driving up price.

The cheap doctors will end up being sub par, which when dealing with health is dangerous.

So it won't solve any healthcare problem.

Suryavarman

Suryavarman wrote: »

Why not? The sole purpose of medical licensing laws is to protect doctors from competition.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

It's ok Dr. Neary, you can come back, the sole purpose of the medical council that barred you from practicing medicine in Ireland ever again is actually to protect you from competition, not to protect patients from incompetent doctors!

Ah, Dr. Shipman, I didn't see you over there, sorry about the little mixup in the UK with them barring you from practicing medicine and all that. I have good news for you, it turns out that a bright young man on the internet has figured out that the licencing laws are there to protect you not the patients, please feel free to come over and practice in Ireland, just don't charge your patients too much for killing them.

Why Dr. Wakefield! You're just the man we've been looking for to complete some ethically and scientifically unsound research at a reasonable price, come on over! Just don't charge too much and we'll turn a blind eye to that little research paper of yours that resulted in the deaths of thousands of children.

:pac::pac::pac:

mise_me_fein3

Deleted User wrote: »

So you want us to be the only country in the world not to have a system of licencing for medical practitioners?

Hi everybody!

Hi Dr. Nick!

Hey Dr. Nick, getting much work these days?

Clearly you wouldn't get any work....the cream would rise to the top and the good doctors would get paid well and the average ones not so well.

Incentives for everyone to improve and a better system for all.

mise_me_fein3

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Hey Dr. Nick, getting much work these days?

Clearly you wouldn't get any work....the cream would rise to the top and the good doctors would get paid well and the average ones not so well.

Incentives for everyone to improve and a better system for all.

What happens when you're carted off to A & E on a trolley after having an accident, it's not as if you can do a little market research on the way in and decide which doctor you want to treat you.

psychward

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

the cream would rise to the top and the good doctors would get paid well and the average ones not so well.

There shouldn't be any bad doctors. Those who can't pass their exams and cannot prove to be of a sufficient standard should be not be allowed practice medicine. Otherwise any chancer could print out a fake cert from the internet and embark on a killing spree after offering his services door to door to absent minded old people and the most vulnerable not before cleaning out their bank accounts. Theres enough chancers already going door to door offering to do tarmacing and clean the gutters etc. The problem would explode into absurd surreality if they were also free to offer prescription drugs and surgery.

Jopari87

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Hey Dr. Nick, getting much work these days?

Clearly you wouldn't get any work....the cream would rise to the top and the good doctors would get paid well and the average ones not so well.

Incentives for everyone to improve and a better system for all.

That is looking at it from the doctor's viewpoint.

The above doesn't lead to free healthcare. It drives up the price of good healthcare for normal people.

Jopari87

Deleted User wrote: »

What happens when you're carted off to A & E on a trolley after having an accident, it's not as if you can do a little market research on the way in and decide which doctor you want to treat you.

Your market research is a choice between bankruptcy or death.

opinion guy

psychward wrote: »

There shouldn't be any bad doctors. Those who can't pass their exams and cannot prove to be of a sufficient standard should be not be allowed practice medicine. Otherwise any chancer could print out a fake cert from the internet and embark on a killing spree after offering his services door to door to absent minded old people and the most vulnerable not before cleaning out their bank accounts. Theres enough chancers already going door to door offering to do tarmacing and clean the gutters etc. The problem would explode into absurd surreality if they were also free to offer prescription drugs and surgery.

Oh but our Austrian free market capitalist friend has told us we need to scrap the licensing system so anyone could practise medicine! THere won't be any exams or standards - remember ?

K-9

Even libertarians would admit there has to be some regulation of the health service.

Otherwise we rank GP's and A&E's by ranking the number of deaths. I don't want to be that statistic.

bleg

I can't believe you guys are debating these fools.

mise_me_fein3

Jopari87 wrote: »

That is looking at it from the doctor's viewpoint.

The above doesn't lead to free healthcare. It drives up the price of good healthcare for normal people.

I am a normal person and right now it is too expensive to visit the doctor unless you are on a medical card.

Scrap it all or make all people pay a minimum fee.

opinion guy

bleg wrote: »

I can't believe you guys are debating these fools.

Honestly, here, debating is a strong word bleg

Mazeire

Suryavarman wrote: »

In the US hospitals have to treat emergencies. .

If you are in an accident and bought in unconcious in an ambulance maybe, however my friend lives in the states, in DC specifically and she woke up with tremendous pain in her amdomen one night. Her flatmate bought her to the nearest hospital. After an ultrasound they diagnosed an ovarian cyst which had wrapped itself around one of her fallopian tubes cutting of the blood supply to it. If it ruptured it could have killed her and best case scenario was that her fertility was threatened. They said they would admit her for emergency surgery could she please provide insurance details. Given that she worked in theatre at the time she had no insurance and they hospital refused to treat her and discharged her immediately. The only thing they gave her was a copy of her ultrasound. The same thing happened at the next hospital until her flatmate who had a very well paying IT job paid $3,000 in cash upfront. Her mother had to fly in from Carolina the following day and write a chequw for the remaining amount which I think totalled $25K and wiped out their savings. Two months later my friend recieved a further bill for $8K from hospital number one for the ultrasound and their examination.

stovelid

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Being a doctor is not a cushy job.

If only all the highly paid people on the public payroll actually performed a function as useful as that.

hooradiation

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Absolutely.

What is wrong using your brain to determine whether or not someone has the legitimate credentials to practice medicine.
It's called the right to earn a living. We've only had these laws for a few years. Let the doctors compete for your money, as well as insurance companies. Let these people battle it out, not us.

We're the benefactors, the people. Free your mind. It's called the free Market. Or in other words, Capitalism. What we have now is Corporatism. Protecting people is nothing more than Corporatism.

Then I'll take 'Corporatism' over your bullshit any day of the week.

Suryavarman

Deleted User wrote: »

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

It's ok Dr. Neary, you can come back, the sole purpose of the medical council that barred you from practicing medicine in Ireland ever again is actually to protect you from competition, not to protect patients from incompetent doctors!

Ah, Dr. Shipman, I didn't see you over there, sorry about the little mixup in the UK with them barring you from practicing medicine and all that. I have good news for you, it turns out that a bright young man on the internet has figured out that the licencing laws are there to protect you not the patients, please feel free to come over and practice in Ireland, just don't charge your patients too much for killing them.

So the reason we need medical licensing is because LICENSED doctors were able to conduct over 100 hysterectomies or kill over 200 people?

Why Dr. Wakefield! You're just the man we've been looking for to complete some ethically and scientifically unsound research at a reasonable price, come on over! Just don't charge too much and we'll turn a blind eye to that little research paper of yours that resulted in the deaths of thousands of children.

:pac::pac::pac:

What difference would it have made if he had a licence or not? He would still have been able to issue a report stating that the MMR vaccine causes autism. If anything medical licencing gave him more credibility than he deserved.


So far you have proven that licencing doesn't protect patients. It is also common sense that by constricting the number of doctors, medical licencing does make medical care more expensive.

Care to have another try at making a case for medical licencing?

Jopari87 wrote: »

What will happen is the demand for the best doctors will increase, driving up price.

God forbid better doctors getting paid more and giving other doctors an incentive to improve :rolleyes:

If the reasons for having licencing are true, then only the best doctors are allowed to practice now, so getting rid of licencing shouldn't increase the prices doctors charge.

The cheap doctors will end up being sub par, which when dealing with health is dangerous.

It's better to at least give people a choice between going to expensive or cheap doctors.

So it won't solve any healthcare problem.

As has already been outlined, yes it will.

Deleted User wrote: »

What happens when you're carted off to A & E on a trolley after having an accident, it's not as if you can do a little market research on the way in and decide which doctor you want to treat you.

Or maybe people will know which hospitals in their local area employ shoddy doctors and they won't ask to be brought to those hospitals.

psychward wrote: »

There shouldn't be any bad doctors. Those who can't pass their exams and cannot prove to be of a sufficient standard should be not be allowed practice medicine. Otherwise any chancer could print out a fake cert from the internet and embark on a killing spree after offering his services door to door to absent minded old people and the most vulnerable not before cleaning out their bank accounts. Theres enough chancers already going door to door offering to do tarmacing and clean the gutters etc. The problem would explode into absurd surreality if they were also free to offer prescription drugs and surgery.

Maybe people should take some responsibility for themselves and make sure they are getting treatment from a good doctor.

opinion guy wrote: »

Oh but our Austrian free market capitalist friend has told us we need to scrap the licensing system so anyone could practise medicine! THere won't be any exams or standards - remember ?

Who said anything about not having exams or standards? The case was being made for allowing unlicenced doctors to compete with licenced ones. If there is a demand for doctors to be certified to have reached some standard, then organisations will start doing that.

K-9 wrote: »

Even libertarians would admit there has to be some regulation of the health service.

Otherwise we rank GP's and A&E's by ranking the number of deaths. I don't want to be that statistic.

I'm a libertarian and I don't accept that there has to Government regulation of health care.

Mazeire wrote: »

If you are in an accident and bought in unconcious in an ambulance maybe, however my friend lives in the states, in DC specifically and she woke up with tremendous pain in her amdomen one night. Her flatmate bought her to the nearest hospital. After an ultrasound they diagnosed an ovarian cyst which had wrapped itself around one of her fallopian tubes cutting of the blood supply to it. If it ruptured it could have killed her and best case scenario was that her fertility was threatened. They said they would admit her for emergency surgery could she please provide insurance details. Given that she worked in theatre at the time she had no insurance and they hospital refused to treat her and discharged her immediately. The only thing they gave her was a copy of her ultrasound. The same thing happened at the next hospital until her flatmate who had a very well paying IT job paid $3,000 in cash upfront. Her mother had to fly in from Carolina the following day and write a chequw for the remaining amount which I think totalled $25K and wiped out their savings. Two months later my friend recieved a further bill for $8K from hospital number one for the ultrasound and their examination.

Maybe she should have gotten insurance instead of taking the risk of not having it then.

Leftist

Suryavarman wrote: »

So the reason we need medical licensing is because LICENSED doctors were able to conduct over 100 hysterectomies or kill over 200 people?



What difference would it have made if he had a licence or not? He would still have been able to issue a report stating that the MMR vaccine causes autism. If anything medical licencing gave him more credibility than he deserved.


So far you have proven that licencing doesn't protect patients. It is also common sense that by constricting the number of doctors, medical licencing does make medical care more expensive.

Care to have another try at making a case for medical licencing?



God forbid better doctors getting paid more and giving other doctors an incentive to improve :rolleyes:

If the reasons for having licencing are true, then only the best doctors are allowed to practice now, so getting rid of licencing shouldn't increase the prices doctors charge.



It's better to at least give people a choice between going to expensive or cheap doctors.



As has already been outlined, yes it will.




Or maybe people will know which hospitals in their local area employ shoddy doctors and they won't ask to be brought to those hospitals.




Maybe people should take some responsibility for themselves and make sure they are getting treatment from a good doctor.




Who said anything about not having exams or standards? The case was being made for allowing unlicenced doctors to compete with licenced ones. If there is a demand for doctors to be certified to have reached some standard, then organisations will start doing that.




I'm a libertarian and I don't accept that there has to Government regulation of health care.




Maybe she should have gotten insurance instead of taking the risk of not having it then.

You either a wind up or your opinions class you as a lower form of life.

Suryavarman

Leftist wrote: »

You either a wind up or your opinions class you as a lower form of life.

Some pretty deep analysis you've got there :rolleyes:

Leftist

Don't even need to go into that, I'm sorry I'm sure you were raised that way and all but someone of your political beliefs just makes me sick. It's just the selfish, upper middle class, I'm alright jack no consideration for those who cannot make enough money in a capitalist society that can relocate or downsize at any oppurtunity. It's just disgusting. No personal offense intended.

Suryavarman

Leftist wrote: »

Don't even need to go into that, I'm sorry I'm sure you were raised that way and all but someone of your political beliefs just makes me sick. It's just the selfish, upper middle class, I'm alright jack no consideration for those who cannot make enough money in a capitalist society that can relocate or downsize at any oppurtunity. It's just disgusting. No personal offense intended.

So are you actually going to try and point out something wrong with my posts or just try to insult me?

Leftist

Suryavarman wrote: »

So are you actually going to try and point out something wrong with my posts or just try to insult me?

Wouldn't know where to start. Should go to better doctors, should have had insurance. People should ask for what hospitals they go to when an ambulance arrives. The general admittance of being a libertarian.

Write off.

Suryavarman

Leftist wrote: »

Wouldn't know where to start. Should go to better doctors, should have had insurance. People should ask for what hospitals they go to when an ambulance arrives. The general admittance of being a libertarian.

Write off.

So your incapable of offering anything of substance?

psychward

Suryavarman wrote: »

Maybe people should take some responsibility for themselves and make sure they are getting treatment from a good doctor.

That's like saying nobody should need a license to drive. Even the ones with driving licenses would be ploughed into and killed or crippled by reckless fools who think driving to the bookies is like a bumpercar ride in a funfair. Communism doesn't take account of human nature but neither do some Libertarians. A good doctor must satisfy one basic requirement at least: he must have passed his exams and proven that he understands medicine. No standards whatsoever would send us back to the stone age.

Ray Palmer

We need to restrict the amount of doctor college places available for sale is the first thing. Then we need to increase the number of positions.

Then contractually tie the doctors to the irish health system. Increase the men in medicine adn ultimately break the doctors union

hooradiation

Suryavarman wrote: »

So the reason we need medical licensing is because LICENSED doctors were able to conduct over 100 hysterectomies or kill over 200 people?

What difference would it have made if he had a licence or not? He would still have been able to issue a report stating that the MMR vaccine causes autism. If anything medical licencing gave him more credibility than he deserved.

So far you have proven that licencing doesn't protect patients. It is also common sense that by constricting the number of doctors, medical licencing does make medical care more expensive.

Care to have another try at making a case for medical licencing?

A typical Nirvana fallacy.
"It's not perfect, therefore it's worthless".
Having a licencing system guarantees that people who are not doctors may not masquerade as such. Given how the title 'nutritionist' isn't legally protected and the unmitigated farce that has produced, I see no sane reason to remove legal protection from the title of doctor.

Suryavarman wrote: »

It's better to at least give people a choice between going to expensive or cheap doctors.

If this choice comes at the expense of being able to know that the person you're seeing is, in fact, a doctor - then fuck it. The myth of the rational consumer is just that, a myth.

Suryavarman wrote: »

Maybe people should take some responsibility for themselves and make sure they are getting treatment from a good doctor.

Given that people are fucking awful at making decisions, and aren't also medical professionals how, exactly, do you propose people make sound choices on this?

Suryavarman wrote: »

Who said anything about not having exams or standards? The case was being made for allowing unlicenced doctors to compete with licenced ones. If there is a demand for doctors to be certified to have reached some standard, then organisations will start doing that.

sounds great, If only we already had a system like that....

Suryavarman wrote: »

I'm a libertarian and I don't accept that there has to Government regulation of health care.

Well yes, nobody but a internet libertarian could envisage this kind of nonsense.

Suryavarman wrote: »

Maybe she should have gotten insurance instead of taking the risk of not having it then.

because US health insurance is a paragon of affordable and reasonable insurance.
Or , better translated, "fuck you, i got mine"

Jopari87

Suryavarman wrote: »

So the reason we need medical licensing is because LICENSED doctors were able to conduct over 100 hysterectomies or kill over 200 people?



What difference would it have made if he had a licence or not? He would still have been able to issue a report stating that the MMR vaccine causes autism. If anything medical licencing gave him more credibility than he deserved.


So far you have proven that licencing doesn't protect patients. It is also common sense that by constricting the number of doctors, medical licencing does make medical care more expensive.

Care to have another try at making a case for medical licencing?



God forbid better doctors getting paid more and giving other doctors an incentive to improve :rolleyes:

If the reasons for having licencing are true, then only the best doctors are allowed to practice now, so getting rid of licencing shouldn't increase the prices doctors charge.



It's better to at least give people a choice between going to expensive or cheap doctors.



As has already been outlined, yes it will.




Or maybe people will know which hospitals in their local area employ shoddy doctors and they won't ask to be brought to those hospitals.




Maybe people should take some responsibility for themselves and make sure they are getting treatment from a good doctor.




Who said anything about not having exams or standards? The case was being made for allowing unlicenced doctors to compete with licenced ones. If there is a demand for doctors to be certified to have reached some standard, then organisations will start doing that.




I'm a libertarian and I don't accept that there has to Government regulation of health care.




Maybe she should have gotten insurance instead of taking the risk of not having it then.

So your solution to escalating health costs in Ireland is to adopt policies that created the expensive healthcare in the US?

Suryavarman

psychward wrote: »

That's like saying nobody should need a license to drive. Even the ones with driving licenses would be ploughed into and killed or crippled by reckless fools who think driving to the bookies is like a bumpercar ride in a funfair. Communism doesn't take account of human nature but neither do some Libertarians. A good doctor must satisfy one basic requirement at least: he must have passed his exams and proven that he understands medicine. No standards whatsoever would send us back to the stone age.

How does passing a few exams make somebody a good doctor? What if they cheated in those exams? What if those exams were done thirty years ago and all that knowledge has been forgotten?

hooradiation wrote: »

A typical Nirvana fallacy.
"It's not perfect, therefore it's worthless".
Having a licencing system guarantees that people who are not doctors may not masquerade as such. Given how the title 'nutritionist' isn't legally protected and the unmitigated farce that has produced, I see no sane reason to remove legal protection from the title of doctor.

You must be pretty blind if you can't see a reason for ending protection of doctors from competition.

If this choice comes at the expense of being able to know that the person you're seeing is, in fact, a doctor - then fuck it. The myth of the rational consumer is just that, a myth.

If you want to know that you are being treated by a competent doctor then go to the doctors that are certified by competent organisation. If I want to be treated by a doctor without that certification I should be free to do so.

Given that people are fucking awful at making decisions, and aren't also medical professionals how, exactly, do you propose people make sound choices on this?

You might be awful at making decisions but I am not. As I said in my previous post private companies would certify doctors.

sounds great, If only we already had a system like that....

I know, imagine a private organisation that could ensure the quality of Kosher meat or even electrical appliances. If Government gets out of the way, not only will costs fall but quality can be maintained.

Well yes, nobody but a internet libertarian could envisage this kind of nonsense.

Nothing nonsensical about it. What regulations provide a net benefit to the healthcare experience?

because US health insurance is a paragon of affordable and reasonable insurance.
Or , better translated, "fuck you, i got mine"

The reason insurance is so expensive in the US is because of Government intervention.

Jopari87 wrote: »

So your solution to escalating health costs in Ireland is to adopt policies that created the expensive healthcare in the US?

The reasons the US has such expensive medical care is because of things like forbidding insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines, medical licencing, not taxing insurance bought for people by their employers, medicare and medicaid, the FDA holding up the approval of drugs and increasing the costs of developing drugs, the backwards court system that allows people to bring doctors to court and not have to pay the doctors legal bills if they lose and the host of regulations that insurance companies have to comply with that drive up the cost of insurance.

hooradiation

Suryavarman wrote: »

You must be pretty blind if you can't see a reason for ending protection of doctors from competition.

I can't see the case you haven't made, that doesn't make me blind.

Suryavarman wrote: »

If you want to know that you are being treated by a competent doctor then go to the doctors that are certified by competent organisation. If I want to be treated by a doctor without that certification I should be free to do so.

This juxtaposed with your "but they might have cheated!" response to another poster is an amazing act of cognitive dissonance.
So, the title doctor shouldn't be legally protected, because they might have cheated in their exams and it's not a perfect system, but they should be certified by private bodies - who will somehow have magic powers that make them immune to all possible failings.
Also, people will be able to access this information freely because we all know that people are perfectly capable of making sane decisions on areas they have no real knowledge of.

Suryavarman wrote: »

You might be awful at making decisions but I am not. As I said in my previous post private companies would certify doctors.

No, all people are, this includes you. You are not so smart.

Suryavarman wrote: »

I know, imagine a private organisation that could ensure the quality of Kosher meat or even electrical appliances. If Government gets out of the way, not only will costs fall but quality can be maintained.

The best part about libertarian arguments is either the false equivalence, or the fact that you can argue with such conviction about scenarios that only exist in theory.
I am always torn.

Suryavarman wrote: »

Nothing nonsensical about it. What regulations provide a net benefit to the healthcare experience?

The ones where the guy treating me is actually a doctor and not some con artist with wikipedia and all seven series of House MD to guide him.

Suryavarman wrote: »

The reason insurance is so expensive in the US is because of Government intervention.

So, in the absence of government intervention sociopathic corporations would pass these 'savings' onto the consumer?
I don't believe that for a second.

Suryavarman wrote: »

The reasons the US has such expensive medical care is because of things like forbidding insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines, medical licencing, not taxing insurance bought for people by their employers, medicare and medicaid, the FDA holding up the approval of drugs and increasing the costs of developing drugs, the backwards court system that allows people to bring doctors to court and not have to pay the doctors legal bills if they lose and the host of regulations that insurance companies have to comply with that drive up the cost of insurance.

Most of those are good things, the FDA especially.

psychward

Suryavarman wrote: »

How does passing a few exams make somebody a good doctor? What if they cheated in those exams? What if those exams were done thirty years ago and all that knowledge has been forgotten?

exams are designed to produce someone who is reasonably competent. if someone doesnt want to sit exams then what are they afraid of ?
so your response to the risk of cheaters passing exams is to abolish exams altogether. Sounds like a surreal version of the nanny state whereby alcohol gets banned due to a few drunks. I suppose you also think that nobody should need to pass a driving test too ? They can learn on the road and after a few kills they will get the hang of it wont they ? Thats if someone else doesn't plough into them and kill them first.

smash

A lot of people are confusing free healthcare with free gp visits. Most Gp's are not employed by the state, they own or work for a practice so realistically they can charge what they want.

We have free healthcare in a way that if something is wrong you can get an X-ray or stay in a hospital or have an op covered by the state if you have no insurance.

If we had it as bad as the states then it would be worth going mad about but right now it works ok.

opinion guy

Ray Palmer wrote: »

ultimately break the doctors union

:eek:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH

Thats the funniest friggin thing I've read in a long time.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

:eek:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH

Thats the funniest friggin thing I've read in a long time.

I know, I was just going to point out the same.

It's rare to see such an extreme combination of strongly held opinion and complete lack of knowledge of the issues at hand.

foreverandever

While I don't know exactly how the nhs works I have heard complaints with egards to the GP service, their hours get booked up weeks in advance because people call in about every little problem. So you wake up with q chest infection and they tell you it's two weeks before you can see a doctor. Also you have to see the doctor in your area so if you don't like them you're stuck with them. I really don't see why accountants, lawyers, teachers etc shouldn't have to pay to visit a doctor? One thing that does annoy me is the amount of non-EUs with medical cards, for the whole family. I'm not sure why they should be entitled to them so easily?

6679

I know it has been said many times but just wanted to give numbers.

I have been living in the UK for the last 8 or so months. Myself and one of my mates from college earn roughly the same wage (when I convert my wage into Euro) he lives/works in Dublin but he takes home more then €2,000 more then I do. The reason for this is the "free" health care service I get which I pay £2,000 a year for it in taxes.


Also when I was with VHI I was able to claim back half of the money I spent going to a GP/Specialist.

hooradiation

foreverandever wrote: »

While I don't know exactly how the nhs works I have heard complaints with egards to the GP service, their hours get booked up weeks in advance because people call in about every little problem. So you wake up with q chest infection and they tell you it's two weeks before you can see a doctor.

This is an exaggeration, at best.

foreverandever

hooradiation wrote: »

This is an exaggeration, at best.

Ask any student who uses the free college GP service about how easy it is to walk in and get an appointment on the day. Unless it's for the morning after pill, very very slim chances. And if it really is a huge emergency- Go to A&E.

Cool Mo D

The problem with healthcare in Ireland is not the cost, it is the quality. No-one is going to go bankrupt in Ireland paying for healthcare, because all the costs are capped. You can never pay more than 750 euro in a year for public hospital treatment - it's also max 75 euro a night.

The average person might see a GP up to 4 times a year, and if they are unlucky, would have to go to accident and emergency once. That would cost them about 300 euro, with no insurance or medical card.

Prescription charges are also capped, at 120 euro a month per family. If you rely on the public health system, it's basically impossible to be billed more than about 2000 euro in a year, no matter what treatment and drugs you need. That is expensive, but it's not going to put people on the streets.

Everyone in Ireland is entitled to vastly subsidised healthcare. What we need is a properly run health system to go along with it.

hooradiation

foreverandever wrote: »

Ask any student who uses the free college GP service about how easy it is to walk in and get an appointment on the day. Unless it's for the morning after pill, very very slim chances. And if it really is a huge emergency- Go to A&E.

I can get an appointment on the day, no problem.
The NHS waiting lists of months to see a doctor thing is a bit of a myth.

Tiocfaidh Armani

amacachi wrote: »

Effort? Fairly sure the HSE costs about as much per person as the NHS, fairly different output though.

It did until recently, that said what we spend on healthcare isn't a good indicator as we also took in money from the service as well because it's not completely free at the point of service like in Britain.

Our system is a shambles, if taxes need to be increased to a point where we have a UK-style system then so be it.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Cool Mo D wrote: »

The problem with healthcare in Ireland is not the cost, it is the quality. No-one is going to go bankrupt in Ireland paying for healthcare, because all the costs are capped. You can never pay more than 750 euro in a year for public hospital treatment - it's also max 75 euro a night.

The average person might see a GP up to 4 times a year, and if they are unlucky, would have to go to accident and emergency once. That would cost them about 300 euro, with no insurance or medical card.

Prescription charges are also capped, at 120 euro a month per family. If you rely on the public health system, it's basically impossible to be billed more than about 2000 euro in a year, no matter what treatment and drugs you need. That is expensive, but it's not going to put people on the streets.

Everyone in Ireland is entitled to vastly subsidised healthcare. What we need is a properly run health system to go along with it.

Great post. The HSE are not fit for purpose, they need completely scrapped and remodelled.