The Race for the Park - who will the good people of Clare be voting for? - Continued

dr.fuzzenstein

OK, points taken about McGuinness.
All very well and good, but is the politics of the North relevant for the role of president?
To me it's more of a look back, rather than a look forward.
Granted SF has gained some popularity here, but to me that party exists with one purpose at heart and maybe that could be to the detriment of other issues.
Maybe it's also to do with hearing "the afternoon film has been canceled to bring you 4 hours of debate from Stormont" that opens up a little pit of despair in my stomach every time I hear the name of any northern politician mentioned, not just SF.
Anyways, Michael D for me.

Balagan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

...Maybe the Irish want a president that can "persuade" Europe more efficiently to give us more dosh?

You mean like a heist?

PARKHEAD67

CptSternn wrote: »

I'll start by saying Iam voting for Norris, and I'll be happy to outline why, but in another post.

Per the McGuinness bashing though, it does seem a bit unfounded. Here is why -

There was a great article in the Times about him last week you can read here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0928/1224304857139.html

It brings up a very good point many people seem to be missing. Currently, he holds the highest office in N. Ireland. He has been an elected politician for quite some time. He has a very good track record for an elected politician, and most importantly, the UK like him.

The above article contains quotes of support from former British secretary of state Shaun Woodward (Labour). To say he is not a good candidate is to say the whole UK has it wrong and they are all eejits. To argue he would be a bad politician is to be intentionally obtuse about his current track record.

What is really strange is the people of the UK have accepted him as their leader for N. Ireland, yet small pockets in the Republic treat him like a pariah. If the British people can get over it, it makes those in the Republic, those who have even less of a quarrel against him than the British do, seem very small and petty.

He didn't wage war against Ireland, so if the people he was fighting against can move on, what does it say about people who can't?

Excellent post.:)

Kasabian

A percentage of Clare people put Timmy Dooley back in the Dáil, this proves that a percentage of Clare people should have no voting rights as they obviously haven't the brains to use it correctly.

Tora Bora

CptSternn wrote: »

I'll start by saying Iam voting for Norris, and I'll be happy to outline why, but in another post.

Per the McGuinness bashing though, it does seem a bit unfounded. Here is why -

There was a great article in the Times about him last week you can read here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0928/1224304857139.html

It brings up a very good point many people seem to be missing. Currently, he holds the highest office in N. Ireland. He has been an elected politician for quite some time. He has a very good track record for an elected politician, and most importantly, the UK like him.

The above article contains quotes of support from former British secretary of state Shaun Woodward (Labour). To say he is not a good candidate is to say the whole UK has it wrong and they are all eejits. To argue he would be a bad politician is to be intentionally obtuse about his current track record.

What is really strange is the people of the UK have accepted him as their leader for N. Ireland, yet small pockets in the Republic treat him like a pariah. If the British people can get over it, it makes those in the Republic, those who have even less of a quarrel against him than the British do, seem very small and petty.

He didn't wage war against Ireland, so if the people he was fighting against can move on, what does it say about people who can't?

Why on earth is the fact that the UK like him important? Who gives a sh1t, about their feelings towards anybody, never mind our would be president.

Carry

Tora Bora wrote: »

Why on earth is the fact that the UK like him important? Who gives a sh1t, about their feelings towards anybody, never mind our would be president.

Because it was argued by some politicians (and others) that MCG as president wouldn't be accepted abroad and would damage the reputation of Ireland.

The president is mainly an ambassador for his country. So it should be important that other countries accept him.

Balagan

Carry wrote: »

Because it was argued by some politicians (and others) that MCG as president wouldn't be accepted abroad and would damage the reputation of Ireland.

The president is mainly an ambassador for his country. So it should be important that other countries accept him.

Gaddafi would have had a great welcome for him.

Lady Chatterton

Mary Davis and Gay Mitchell still have no votes :eek: :eek: :eek:

PARKHEAD67

Kasabian wrote: »

A percentage of Clare people put Timmy Dooley back in the Dáil, this proves that a percentage of Clare people should have no voting rights as they obviously haven't the brains to use it correctly.

I agree about Dooley. The stupidity of some voters is very hard to comprehend.

PARKHEAD67

MrsD007 wrote: »

Mary Davis and Gay Mitchell still have no votes :eek: :eek: :eek:

Quite rightly;)

Hawk Wing 2

Carry wrote: »

Because it was argued by some politicians (and others) that MCG as president wouldn't be accepted abroad and would damage the reputation of Ireland.

The president is mainly an ambassador for his country. So it should be important that other countries accept him.

HE is perfectly acceptable internationally as deputy prime minister for Northern Ireland, why not for this little Banana republic?

Lady Chatterton

Check out Mary Davis' new posters :;):D

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056403738&page=89 (Post 1332)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056403738&page=90 (Post 1349)

WakeyTyke

Totally uninspired by any of the candidates so far.

Think I will decide by a process of elimination.

First to go is Michael D. because there are way too many of his posters around town, a complete waste of money and materials.:(

Kasabian

WakeyTyke wrote: »

Totally uninspired by any of the candidates so far.

Think I will decide by a process of elimination.

First to go is Michael D. because there are way too many of his posters around town, a complete waste of money and materials.:(

Kilrush needs brightening up

willow tree

i'll be voting for norris but i'm impressed with sean gallaghers approach to the post , especially the idea of no posters- 2nd vote for that.
i wonder how this poll reflects outside polls, anyone i've spoken is very anti martin but he seems to be doing well in clare boards poll:) i don't always mind where someone comes from but if they've arrived at a better place in life thats a good thing..it can show an ability to grow and learn.

redhot

Where is the option vote for "none of the above"?

IMHO, none of the candidates inspire, they won't help the world take Ireland seriously, and with several questionable pasts between them- wish we could wait to have a line up with more credibility, before putting the country to the vote

Clareman

None of the above is the same as with the real election, you don't vote.

CptSternn

New articles on the candidates are bringing up more issues...

You have Michael D who now as been outed as a pro-choice (pro-abortion) supporter. This seems to be bothering a few people.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172354-if-you-voting-michael-d-you-voting-abortion-always-remember.html

All of FF are now out canvassing for Gallagher, they even have pictures up of him on their website(s). Not running a candidate? Far from it. They apparently are trying to sneak one in the backdoor here.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172234-gallagher-really-now-fianna-fail-candidate.html

And turns out Dana swore allegience to the United States. Some have said Dev was a US citzen, but sure, he was born there and got it for free. She on the other hand had to say this in front of a judge -

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172332-dana-us-citizen-has-renounced-her-allegiance-ireland.html

When you become a U.S. citizen, you must give up all prior allegiances to other countries. Although nobody will care if you root for your birth country in a soccer match (actually, some soccer fans may care, but the U.S. government certainly won't), you won't be able to defend that country against the United States in times of conflict or war. You must also be willing to serve your new country, the United States of America, when required. What this means is that if the U.S. is at war or in the midst of some other type of crisis, you need to be willing to take up arms for the U.S. or otherwise aid the military effort in whatever capacity is needed.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/determining-whether-you-really-want-to-become-a-us.html

Looks like the media has started to turn it's Microscope away from Norris and McGuinness and has at least started looking at the other candidates. Finally.

Dublinman12

CptSternn wrote: »

New articles on the candidates are bringing up more issues...

You have Michael D who now as been outed as a pro-choice (pro-abortion) supporter. This seems to be bothering a few people.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172354-if-you-voting-michael-d-you-voting-abortion-always-remember.html

All of FF are now out canvassing for Gallagher, they even have pictures up of him on their website(s). Not running a candidate? Far from it. They apparently are trying to sneak one in the backdoor here.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172234-gallagher-really-now-fianna-fail-candidate.html

And turns out Dana swore allegience to the United States. Some have said Dev was a US citzen, but sure, he was born there and got it for free. She on the other hand had to say this in front of a judge -

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172332-dana-us-citizen-has-renounced-her-allegiance-ireland.html



http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/determining-whether-you-really-want-to-become-a-us.html

Looks like the media has started to turn it's Microscope away from Norris and McGuinness and has at least started looking at the other candidates. Finally.

Good post..in fact this is the best and most balanced thread on the election I have read so far..compared to the Norris and McGuinness bashing blueshirt threads its refreshing..

PARKHEAD67

willow tree wrote: »

i'll be voting for norris but i'm impressed with sean gallaghers approach to the post , especially the idea of no posters- 2nd vote for that.
i wonder how this poll reflects outside polls, anyone i've spoken is very anti martin but he seems to be doing well in clare boards poll:) i don't always mind where someone comes from but if they've arrived at a better place in life thats a good thing..it can show an ability to grow and learn.

Norris hasnt a chance(my god, he was a seedy boy).Sean Gallagher is, as my mother would say-a chancer.Anyway, best of luck to both.Hope they do really well;).Im a Martin man-Good honest policy.Just my opinion.

Lady Chatterton

Results of Presidental Election Poll run from 29/09/'11 - 15/10/'11

No. of votes = 45

Mary Davis - 2.22%
Michael D Higgins - 33.33%
Sean Gallagher - 6.67%
Martin McGuinness - 35.56%
Gay Mitchell - 2.22%
David Norris - 17.78%
Dana Rosemary Scallon - 2.22%

Clareman,

Would you mind resetting the poll please? :)

We have all seen more of the presidential candidates now, so it would be interesting to see if people have changed their mind after watching the presidential debates.

Thanks,

Mrs. D

PARKHEAD67

MrsD007 wrote: »

Results of Presidental Election Poll run from 29/09/'11 - 15/10/'11

No. of votes = 45

Mary Davis - 2.22%
Michael D Higgins - 33.33%
Sean Gallagher - 6.67%
Martin McGuinness - 35.56%
Gay Mitchell - 2.22%
David Norris - 17.78%
Dana Rosemary Scallon - 2.22%

Clareman,

Would you mind resetting the poll please? :)

We have all seen more of the presidential candidates now, so it would be interesting to see if people have changed their mind after watching the presidential debates.

Thanks,

Mrs. D

Ill be sticking to my man Mrsd007.

Lady Chatterton

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Ill be sticking to my man Mrsd007.

I'll be standing by my man too but I think resetting the poll could be an interesting exercise. McGuinness hasn't faired too well in the latest Red Sea poll though. Gallagher is emerging as the favourite, then Higgins and McGuinness.

Clareman

I'm not sure how to do that to be honest, I can see the total's for each canditate so I'm going to reset them all to 0

Lady Chatterton

Clareman wrote: »

I'm not sure how to do that to be honest, I can see the total's for each canditate so I'm going to reset them all to 0

Ah you're a star Clareman, Thanks

Clareman

As I wasn't able to reset the poll in the other thread so I thought I'd create a new thread with a new poll

PARKHEAD67

MrsD007 wrote: »

I'll be standing by my man too but I think resetting the poll could be an interesting exercise. McGuinness hasn't faired too well in the latest Red Sea poll though. Gallagher is emerging as the favourite, then Higgins and McGuinness.

Polls are to be ignored IMO.Theyre never realistic.If Gallager gets it I'll cry.Young ones will vote for him coz they saw him on the telly.(the apprentice or whatever twas called). I had to ask the wife who he was.Theres so much misinformation fed about Martin McGuinness.The mere mention of the IRA sends lots of people into this-"Hes a monster" crap.Times were VERY different back then.Hes a peace-keeper now. What he did to put this peace-treaty in place should never be forgotten.Im no IRA sympathyser, but McGuinness deserves respect for what hes done. And a lot of it. And for all the crowd who dismiss him as a murderer-Did yee grow up in the North in the 70's as a Catholic?Go on.. tell us......Im all ears!

CptSternn

What bothers me is some candidates seem to be getting a doing from the media while others are ignored.

The sindo reported not only was Gallagher still in FF and that FF were out canvassing for him, they also reported last week that he was on more than one quango before the crash, including FAS which he got huge payouts from as they all crashed. On top of this he steered contracts from his positions on the boards to his personal companies, meaning we the tax payers were screwed paying for various services since there was no fair competition.

Yet RTE has been silent on this.

As I said before, I'm a Norris supporter, but RTE also crossed a line during the debates when they asked McGuinness how he could considered himself a Christian after all the people he had 'murdered'.

I mean seriously, why is RTE asking about religion during a Presidential debate? Who are they to judge who is a good Christian and who isn't? It's also a loaded question. It's like asking someone does your mother know you are a criminal, it doesn't matter what your answer is, you have already been branded with the question itself. Anything you say makes it seem like you are admitting to being a criminal.

Then the whole family thing with Dana. Sure, she shouldn't be elected due to her swearing an oath in another country, but why is it obscure court documents from another country found their way to the media here, exactly as in the Norris case, and no one has boo to say about any of the candidates who sat on government boards while our economy crashed and they lined their pockets.

It seems like the media has an extreme bias here not to mention someone is going well out of their way to defame certain candidates while protecting a choice few others.

Seriously, where did the Irish media get sealed court transcripts from America and Israel from over a decade ago? That's not something easy to find or acquire. Some people have been quite busy trying to slant this election from the start.

Insect Overlord

CptSternn wrote: »

Seriously, where did the Irish media get sealed court transcripts from America and Israel from over a decade ago? That's not something easy to find or acquire. Some people have been quite busy trying to slant this election from the start.

As far as I know, the documents relating to the Dana story were not sealed. The family had attempted to have them sealed after the case but were unsuccessful. (I'm just going by a few articles I read on Saturday, apologies if more concrete details have come to light since.)

I agree with your point though. The position of president should carry a certain weight of decorum, and the media in general have been doing their best to destroy that.

Shapey Fiend

The media are attacking any of the candidates with a chance of winning, and Dana. Seems fair enough.

I'm finding all of the candidates very uninspiring so i'll spoil my ballot (don't like to be accused of not voting because i can't be arsed)