Occupy Cork

deRanged

for all the clever slogans and posters they have, I don't actually know what they're protesting. I'm assuming that it's not a catch-all protest, but that they have some specific gripes.

Judes

JaneHudson - I salute you!!! Judes

Worztron

Oafley Jones wrote: »

How about answering my question? If you can that is.

We will default eventually.

Nothing has changed, not a single white collar crook is being brought to justice. So when the next bank bailout happens are we the public to also pay that?

We have many natural resources like gas & oil. That should raise a few billion Euros. We should also be concentrating on indigenous industry like bringing back the sugar factories rather than brown nosing to the greedy corporations that want to make a quick buck.

Are you in favor of paying back unguaranteed bond holders? The rich idiots gambled and lost and still want their cash back. :mad:

Worztron

JaneHudson wrote: »

I think the real heroes are the poor shmucks who haul themselves into work day after day, like it or not, and contribute their taxes for the good of others.

Unfortunately a large chunk of those taxes are going to pay the rich gamblers back their ill gotten money.

TheChief36

There are many things about this world I do not like, I believe they can be changed but I do not know what I can do to make it any better.

The people in occupy Cork are largely members of a subculture expressing a lifestyle and will change nothing whatsoever about the system we live in.

There is incredible inequality in the world and I think we should never stop trying to build a better world. Look at that little toddler in China, I read that people were afraid to help her in case they were blamed and targeted by lawsuits. It's this kind of world where money guides us more than our own better natures, that needs to change. I would like to live in a world where you have more choices then being a slave to a job that kills you bit by bit or a parasite that invites the scorn of others. Where your worth is not judged by your money making values. Some people have jobs involving helping others, like teachers and doctors, but even they will day after day find themselves in situations where are forbidden to help, to use their skills, because the figures aren't right. The rest of us must apply our human talents, great intellect and skill to jobs that have no inherent value, that do not challenge us or improve us in any way, except in the eyes of our employers. These jobs are nothing more than feeding the coal fires of towering monoliths who breathe and **** money.

The "occupiers" are indeed thoroughly enjoying themselves, an enjoyment that probably comes from alleviating the guilt they feel for being born into the society they're in. Also the feeling of superiority they get from being more "awakened" then the tie wearing sheep around them. So they "rough it" with all their needs still met and done of their own free will. All their friends in the same culture see them and their identity is reinforced. It also increases their chances of dating other members. Their self-worth increases, not by years in a job or cases closed but by attendance at a protest. What is the thought process? "how can I best make a difference" or more likely "hmm will that person I want to impress be at the protest?" And that is why the villains win, we are all to happy to dig our own graves.

Maybe some have gone to more protests than others so their status is greater. Ones who have been beaten by police, very high. And for those lucky enough to be arrested, Godly. This sub-culture is perfectly in keeping with the system they believe they oppose, by having two disparate camps people may move between them with the illusion of escape. They may have one use, they often very well articulate the problems in our society, even if they make no meaningful action against it.

If they want to be noticed, they should interupt the flow of money. Occupy the seats of power. Disrupt and sew chaos, then just like the strike movements we have seen work, something may be done. But it looks quite unlikely. It's like a war were one side doesn't really try, stays home on the day of the battle or if they do show up they carry no weapons. Then they wonder why they are losing. The best weapon of this age is information.

It's a strange world. There is a masochism in the people that express pride in doing a job they have to physically force themselves to go to every morning. And stranger still the self-indulgence that means people take extra pride in NOT doing something difficult and unpleasant. I think both are just cases of meaningless cultural pride. I would rather be a Beta than a Delta, I would rather die than be a Beta.

SeaFields

For those that are interested people who are staying in the campsite on Southmall were interviewed this morning, via a vox pop, on the Pat Kenny show on RTE radio one. I'm sure the podcast will be up on the RTE site in due course.

I was surprised at the occupations of the people. Didn't seem to be typical rent-a-protest gang. There was a dentist, landscape architect and a final year science mature student (although they could have been a select group).

Worth a listen anyway for those of ye who are interested in it.

Owen

Well, to counter the argument above, just in case anyone's in any doubt what a load of wasters are camping on site they were juggling and practising street performances. Guess it fits in well with the circus that's going on in there.

johnjoefinn

well said judes. everyone went mad. the occupy cork people lack credibility, as they are generally and mostly, i dont like the word, hippy like in appearance, speech, and nature. the only way change can actually be imposed in this country is when the normal person with a mortgage, negative equity, the unemployed (genuinely as opposed to career unemployed) decide to act. and it will happen eventually. the problem with you occupy crowd is ye mostly lack credibility., and mostly due to your wishy wahsy arguments. ye are not the 99 per cent, and you do not represent the 99 per cent. you represent the 1 per cent, yourselves. most people believe if you look, sound, and act like a hippy you are one. and most of the 99 per cent (the working, the unemployed, the single mothers, the pensioners, the family in negative equity and so on, the normal people) despair at the occupy people feigning to represent their views and values. ye lack credibility simply because ye are not representative of the 99 per cent i ireland and the 99 per cent see you quite justifiably as hippies, professional protestors, and layabouts. when the real 99 per cent rise in this country, ye will realise that, and you will also understand the distaste most have towards ye.

mikom

Owen wrote: »

just in case anyone's in any doubt what a load of wasters are camping on site they were juggling and practising street performances.

Lord save us...........

Worztron

johnjoefinn wrote: »

well said judes. everyone went mad.

We all went mad? Really? Speak for yourself, I did not go mad. What a sweeping generalisation.

johnjoefinn wrote: »

you represent the 1 per cent, yourselves. most people believe if you look, sound, and act like a hippy you are one.

You are calling the occupiers the 1%? The 1% are the white collar criminals that wrecked this country.

Oafley Jones

Worztron wrote: »

We will default eventually.

Nothing has changed, not a single white collar crook is being brought to justice. So when the next bank bailout happens are we the public to also pay that?

We have many natural resources like gas & oil. That should raise a few billion Euros. We should also be concentrating on indigenous industry like bringing back the sugar factories rather than brown nosing to the greedy corporations that want to make a quick buck.

Are you in favor of paying back unguaranteed bond holders? The rich idiots gambled and lost and still want their cash back. :mad:

You haven't a clue do you.

Corkblowin

I don't understand how camping out & making sh1t of one of the few pieces of open space that the PEOPLE have access to in our city does anything except discommode those of use who used to enjoy lunch or a coffee there. Least the guys in Dublin are right outside the central bank.

Oh - I don't have a house, nor did I go mad, but I've not seen anyone that I could relate to or be happy to speak fir me at the 'protest'.

Seloth

Passed by the Dame Street one on tuesday so I'm guesin its the same New age traveler type.

By all means you can agree with the idea in general but when you look at the specifics they propose then the water goes down the toilet.

I found it hilarious in Dame Street when I was two of them fighting over a girl :pac:.Non violent people ey.

I was and pretty much still a in an Alternative scene,but when you put it too such an extreme past a certain age they tend to be the same kind of people.Looking at the few people I know who are attending the protest today that are above 21...well lets just say they're not the brightest bunch of people.While in the states,with the Occupy wall street protest its the Common man doing it...In much other places its...well you've seen them =P

But feck it sher at least they have a cause unlike many other in the city.

How come these folk aren't removed by the Gardai? I'm sure if twenty odd homeless folk or travellers set up camp there they'd be moved on fairly lively?

namloc1980

Worztron wrote: »

We have many natural resources like gas & oil. That should raise a few billion Euros.

And how will we extract these resources.....by magic?

Worztron wrote: »

We should also be concentrating on indigenous industry like bringing back the sugar factories rather than brown nosing to the greedy corporations that want to make a quick buck.

Oh dear me. Sugar....are you serious?

Sonics2k

Owen wrote: »

You realise we're paying for the dole for these idiots to have a bit of a laugh down there? You realise that the people down there aren't representative of people who have suffered at the hands of the banks? Yesterday driving home, there was a beardy hippy guy wearing sandals laughing and smiling holding a sign saying something like 'honk if you support us'. To the likes of him, it's just a bit of fun, like going to a festival. I doubt if he really wanted to protest or if the banking eurozone crisis had taken everything away that he had that he'd be laughing and having the time of his life.

These people at the campsite are clearly unwilling to work, their dole should be cancelled.

I'm sorry but you're basing this off what exactly?

The fact he looks like a hippy, he's clearly unemployed or just doing it for a laugh?
How do you know he's not a victim of the recession. Maybe he was working quite happily for the last 15 years and is now possibly on the dole because he cannot find another job.

I'm unemployed. I'm also, not to brag, a computer genius. I can't get a job because I don't have a piece of paper from a University saying I can turn the damn things on, however I know men and women who work in IT who call me on a daily basis for advice on what to do.
I'm looking at at least 9 months of being unemployed before I can go back to college and get Back to Education.

Some of the people at the campsite are only there for a day or two, a few on their days off from work, I know this for a fact because I know a few of them.

So kindly take your opinion of strangers and shove it.

opti76

Worztron wrote: »

We will default eventually.

Nothing has changed, not a single white collar crook is being brought to justice. So when the next bank bailout happens are we the public to also pay that?

what laws were broken ???

deRanged

heck of a night to be camping out!
let's hope they don't end up being occupied by the Lee!

Owen

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm sorry but you're basing this off what exactly?

The fact that the guy dresses like a crusty, behaves like a crusty, and protests like a crusty. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I'm all for politicial correctness, and not judging a book by it's cover, but it's clearly the usual mass unwashed twats in there 'making a difference' - the dogs on the street know it.

So kindly take your opinion of strangers and shove it.

Personal abuse not allowed in any forums charter, you're around long enough to know that. Post reported.

Worztron

opti76 wrote: »

what laws were broken ???

White collar crime!!!

Ainu

In Switzerland we pay around 1.50 € for 1000 l of water. Helps saving water as well.

Corkblowin

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm unemployed. I'm also, not to brag, a computer genius. I can't get a job because I don't have a piece of paper from a University saying I can turn the damn things on, however I know men and women who work in IT who call me on a daily basis for advice on what to do.
I'm looking at at least 9 months of being unemployed before I can go back to college and get Back to Education

I’m don’t know anything about you – but I keep hearing these kind of statements and its drives me mad!!!. You’re a genius but because you haven’t ‘a piece of paper’ you’re barred from the jobs market and you can’t go back to college because its 9 months away.

So it’s the systems fault you’ve no job and people like me who got off our backsides and got our ‘bits of paper’ are just sheep and we ‘don’t really know whats going on’. Rubbish. Well I’m sorry for you, but you didn’t have the piece of paper this time last year either – why aren’t you in college now instead of complaining that its 9 months away??

Even the dismissive way you describe the hard work of thousands of people as ‘bits of paper’ makes my blood boil. Do many hanging out in the tents know what hard work is?

Well my first degree wasn’t helping me to find a job either – but rather than hang around blaming the system I worked in a crappy full time job and went back to college at night to better myself – because I’m not going to rely on anyone else for my wellbeing, nor am I going to get mad because the career I had envisaged for myself did not arise – it was my choice and just because I did it doesn’t mean I’m owed anything. Life doesn’t work like that.

I don’t go to work to feed the IMF, or bankers, or white collar anyone, but to make my own life better. My siblings go to work to make their families lives better. The same for most of my friends. Yes we’re pissed at how the country has gone, but rather than look for people to blame, we’re doing what we can to look after ourselves, and our bit to get the country going again, because we cannot expect the government to be supporting us.

I don’t see how sitting around in a tent on a city green is going to improve my lot or help me achieve the kind of life I want for me and my family.

Sonics2k

Sonics2k wrote: »

..............

I'm also, not to brag, a computer genius. ...........

lol

Plenty of folk are employed without the bit of paper dude.

opti76

Worztron wrote: »

White collar crime!!!

again what laws.. what specific offences, or are you just generalising.

spouting cliches wont convince anyone of anything

For Forks Sake

opti76 wrote: »

again what laws.. what specific offences, or are you just generalising.

spouting cliches wont convince anyone of anything

Rabble, rabble, rabble...

..dey terk er jerbs!!!

..but, but, but..the bankers, the bankers....

etc etc

D.U.M.B

I think people should get their opinions by visiting the actual site, not some website.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Worztron

opti76 wrote: »

again what laws.. what specific offences, or are you just generalising.

spouting cliches wont convince anyone of anything

Anglo Irish bank was moving billions around to make their balance sheet look healthy even though they were in dire shape - that is fraud!

Bertie Ahern seemed to be incredibly lucky at the races with that mystery money. :rolleyes:

Do you seriously think that no banker or developer broke any law?

There was practically no regulation - what was the financial regulator payed to do exactly?

How about the antics of Michael "Fingers" Fingleton, Seán FitzPatrick & David Drumm.

The law in this country is half assed. They can whisk a 65 year old grandmother to jail because she loved her trees but cannot seem to convict the real criminals. :mad:

Bannasidhe

Corkblowin wrote: »

I’m don’t know anything about you – but I keep hearing these kind of statements and its drives me mad!!!. You’re a genius but because you haven’t ‘a piece of paper’ you’re barred from the jobs market and you can’t go back to college because its 9 months away.

So it’s the systems fault you’ve no job and people like me who got off our backsides and got our ‘bits of paper’ are just sheep and we ‘don’t really know whats going on’. Rubbish. Well I’m sorry for you, but you didn’t have the piece of paper this time last year either – why aren’t you in college now instead of complaining that its 9 months away??

Even the dismissive way you describe the hard work of thousands of people as ‘bits of paper’ makes my blood boil. Do many hanging out in the tents know what hard work is?

Well my first degree wasn’t helping me to find a job either – but rather than hang around blaming the system I worked in a crappy full time job and went back to college at night to better myself – because I’m not going to rely on anyone else for my wellbeing, nor am I going to get mad because the career I had envisaged for myself did not arise – it was my choice and just because I did it doesn’t mean I’m owed anything. Life doesn’t work like that.

I don’t go to work to feed the IMF, or bankers, or white collar anyone, but to make my own life better. My siblings go to work to make their families lives better. The same for most of my friends. Yes we’re pissed at how the country has gone, but rather than look for people to blame, we’re doing what we can to look after ourselves, and our bit to get the country going again, because we cannot expect the government to be supporting us.

I don’t see how sitting around in a tent on a city green is going to improve my lot or help me achieve the kind of life I want for me and my family.

Well, I support Occupy Cork, I've been there. I've marched through Cork with them and I know exactly how hard it is to get those bits of paper. I have trade certificates earned via a 5 year apprenticeship, when the development of a chronic illness (Which also means I cannot camp at Occupy Cork full-time - that is the only thing stopping me) meant I could no longer work at my trade I returned to education (completely self-funded I may add - by working and winning competitive scholarships) and I earned the highest educational qualification possible. I got my first summer job aged 12. I got my first proper job aged 15 in Dunnes after school. I have paid PRSI for 31 years. I am a middle-aged woman, a mother and grandmother, who pays her mortgage and bills on time - so am I the 'usual suspect'? Do I not know what hard work is?

The Occupy movement is symbolic - it is the visual manifestation of an iceberg of discontent which is spreading across the West. Discontent at (among other things) how elected representatives have placed the welfare of the financial sector above the welfare of those they are meant to represent. The proof - the imposition of the banks debts upon the people of this country.

If we want change - we need to decide that we want changed.
If we want change - we need to let those who currently control this country to be in no doubt that we will not just go away.
If we want change - we will need to force that change - no vested interest (and I include politicians) will voluntarily give up their extraneous 'rights'.

The Occupy Movement is attempting to create a dialogue among us - the people whose political input is restricted to electing local councillors - when the government exercises enormous centralised control over local authorities and the power as exist locally rests in the hands of highly paid, unelected, county managers. Then we have a GE every few years - 166 TDs are selected. The basic salary of each one of these is currently over 90,000 a year, plus extremely generous expenses. Should a sitting TD lose their seat (.i.e are dismissed [sacked would be another way to put it] by their employer - the electorate) they have an automatic entitlement to a pension if they were in the Dail for 3 years - plus a golden handshake.

Of those over paid 166 TDs the majority have absolutely no input to government - policy is decided by the Cabinet and based on the advice of top- tier civil servants (average salary over 200,000 p.a) and private consultants (18 of whom were granted exemptions to the c90,000 k p.a. salary cap - most of those 18 'earn' at least twice that.) The constant mis-use of the party whip system ensures back benchers toe the line and votes as the party leadership tells them to.

Unless we change how this country is governed, nothing will change.

If you are happy with the way things are run - that's grand. Do nothing.
If you are not happy - get involved in the dialogue.
If you are not happy but prefer to bitch about those who are standing up for a change...well...:rolleyes:

Colonialboy

opti76 wrote: »

again what laws.. what specific offences, or are you just generalising.

spouting cliches wont convince anyone of anything

Good question ... What Laws were broken ? Id like to know those answers... although I think your point is that 'no laws' were broken..Last time I checked the best way to find out what laws were broken was to have an immediate, thorough and complete hard hitting investigation. Shake the trees and see what falls ... Blue collar criminal walks into a bank and takes 100k over the counter, theres 24 roadblocks, 24 search warrants and every crook in the area is pulled in within 24 hours for detention and questioning. Often ending up with a succesful convictionWhite collar criminal works in a bank and takes 1 billion out of the economy, theres shuffling of feet, 24 months spent rejigging whos in charge of the investigations, 24 months conducting the investigation, they confiscate computers about 18 months after the event, they raaid the premises about 18 months after the event, and about 2 years aafter the event they invite the suspects to come visit their local garda station at their convenience when they dont have a golfing outing scheduled.Then theres the whole debate aabout the punishment meeted out to those convicted of white collar crime versus blue collar crime.I dont think its worth sidetracking the OCCUPY Cork thread, just cos onone has been convicted, we all know loads of laws have been broken in recent years in white collar financial and political circles. I dont care what the protestors of OCCUPY CORK look like even if they are crustys. I applaud them for taking a stance, makes a change from the Hugo Boss stink and Tommy Hilfiger clones that usually pervade that area.