Premium dog food

Cliona99

Hello, I've been reading horror stories on here about supermarket dog food. I would love to stop feeding Pedigree Chum but I'm not sure I can afford to switch over.

Some people have said that with high quality foods the dog needs less. I know this is a subjective question, but I thought I'd ask it anyway! Roughly how long would a 15kg bag of White's last a medium sized dog? At the moment she eats a can of Pedigree Chum and about a cup of dry food a day. (She also eats the cat's food if I'm not looking...)

Basically, if 15kg will last two months it'll work out cheaper than what I'm feeding her now. But if it'll be gone in a month, I can't afford it...

Typing this now, I'm thinking I should probably just buy the 15kg and see how it goes But if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

mymo

It depends on the food and the size of the dog.

15kg of whites @€;39 lasted me just over 3 months (need to start marking dates to see myself)for a medium and a small dog.

2x8kg Royal canin lasted me 4 months.
With both foods I fed less than recommended amount, little one is on a diet and bigger fella just doesn't eat much.

Poops nice and solid, not that smelly, and no farts!
I would try it and see, just remember to change over gradually.

Do be careful at first, you don't need to feed as much as the cheaper food, so it can be easy to over feed, measure or weigh the food.

Shanao

What breed is your dog and do you know what weight she is? Its no help really just saying she's medium-sized as it's impossible to calculate how much she will need without knowing her weight.

belongtojazz

I feed 3 of mine the same food ( my 4th dog didn't react well) and for them a 15kg bag of food lasts about 6 weeks. My 3 are a large springer and 2 JRTs.
In my opinion it works out much much cheaper, my lot also get any leftover veg and some cod liver and they are all in brilliant condition

tk123

If you know the dogs weight you can work out an approx daily amount from the guidelines. If you don't know her weight the vets will weigh her for free or some petshops have scales too - our local MaxiZoo and PetMania have them. Obviously every dog is different, you may feed treats, or depending on excercise levels you'd adjust the daily amount to the dogs needs. A 7.5kg bag of Luath (which has the same feeding guidelines as Burns) would last us a 5 or 6 weeks - this was feeding 200-250g a day and him having treats - 2 bonios, a dental chew and a handful of small biscuits every day. Most people find with Burns the dogs will lose a bit of weight at first so you'd go with how the dog looks and adjust the guideline amount to suit her - if you can feel but not see the ribs her weight is ok.

mark1310

ita all about your dogs weight . ok how it works , 1 weigh your dog,2 look at the bag to find out the recommended daily amount for your dog , 3, divide the daily feed amount into 15000 grms if its a 15kg bag u bought ....answer is the amount of days the food will last , then get the price of your bag of food and divide the amount of days ito your price of the bag .. that will then tell you how much it costs you per day to feed your dog.. in maxi zoo they do a brand called real nature its 69.99 a bag BUTTTTTT if you had a yorkie or a small dog based on about 5kg weight you would feed 50 g per day a 15 kg bag would last
15000 g into 50g per day =300 days
300 days into the cost of bag 69.99 =23 cent a day to feed your dog prob one of the best food on the market/
go into your local maxi zoo
have your dog weighed for free
then get free food samples of real nature
and if you buy a bag and your dog wont eat it
then bring it back for something else

neevie21

The really 'high end' dog foods are much hyped up and marketed as being the superior dog foods. Im a vet student, and our pet nutrition lecturer maintained that the more expensive brands; ie royal canine, hills etc are better, it may only really be worth spending the extra money if your dog is a large breed (especially in the first year of life), are really old and have joint problems/heart problems/ kidney problems etc or have some other medical condition or allergies/sensitive stomachs etc.
Do not pay out for the more expensive feeds if you cannot afford them. They are twice the price, they are not twice as good.
Obviously if you are showing your dog in competition etc it might be worth paying extra for food.

mark1310

by buyin more expensive foods the obviously the quailty is a hole lod better and the food lasts a lot longer by feeding a lot less. it also come down to how the foods Are prepared such as cooked or cold pressed , added presertivites and colourings , and also the grade of ingredients used, for instance i wont mention any names of brands but one sytates on the bag that they use 4% carrot in the carrot kibble so its not even a lousey piece of carrot. buy buying cheaper foods they carry a lot of sugers which in turn lead to hyperness in dogs .also by buying a decent bag of food there is up to 75% more nutrional value then a cheap bag;;;; a lot of joint problems , skin issues , bad breath , bad teeth and bad stomachs are caused by bad diets i see it all the time with dogs on cheap diets

Wibbs

neevie21 wrote: »

The really 'high end' dog foods are much hyped up and marketed as being the superior dog foods. Im a vet student, and our pet nutrition lecturer maintained that the more expensive brands; ie royal canine, hills etc are better, it may only really be worth spending the extra money if your dog is a large breed (especially in the first year of life), are really old and have joint problems/heart problems/ kidney problems etc or have some other medical condition or allergies/sensitive stomachs etc.
Do not pay out for the more expensive feeds if you cannot afford them. They are twice the price, they are not twice as good.
Obviously if you are showing your dog in competition etc it might be worth paying extra for food.

So a nutrition lecturer reckons that an animal evolved to be an almost exclusive carnivore is capable of digesting the large amount of (poor quality) grains and gluten in the average dry food(enough omnivorous humans can't digest gluten)? Where the "meat" products are of a very low quality, with ingredients like bone meal and other renderings of unspecified origin are common, where additives like colouring and flavouring are added. Why does a dog need artificial colouring in it's food? That's for the human purchaser. Then in many of the cheaper foods you have additives like BHA and BHT, which are banned in human food because of their links to cancer. Oh sure unlike cats, they'll survive on such a grain heavy, crap protein diet, but are more likely to add to the coffers of vets while doing so. When you see ads for products to remove doggie plaque and tartar would you not be asking why dental decay is suddenly an issue for dogs, when dingos and wolves show no such dental decay?

If we were talking about human nutrition here, there is no way in hell a medical nutritionist would make such a frankly daft claim as your lecturer. Not unless said lecturer was stating that most dry dog food is crap. It would be the equivalent of them suggesting that people to keep chowing down on the lowest quality takeaway food you can find. Is he or she trying to tell the students that the choice between a high quality diet consisting of fresh meat and some fresh veg is not much better than the cheapest scrapings thrown in a bag in your local supermarket?

Plus by his or her own admission they suggest it might be a good bet to go for the better food if ones dog is a large breed or compromised in health in some way. So in effect the better foods are.. well better? So why not recommend same for all dogs?

BTW If they think Royal Canine et al are high end foods, may I respectfully suggest they do more research as part of their remit. While better than the cheap as chips food they still have low quality grains as filler and low quality meat sources. Check the web for more on dry dog foods and the qualities of most out there.

My last dog, a (very)large dog, I fed chicken thighs, lamb bones, offal and veggies and appropriate scraps from the table and he made it to nearly 17, when he died of old age. Beyond vaccinations he never saw the inside of a vets surgery. Cost per week? Can be less than dry or canned food*. My first dog another large breed made it to 16 and died of old age and again never saw a vet other than for checkups. Again with a similar diet. The one in the middle I went the petfood route and that poor bugger died, rather was PTS at 9 after near 3 years of decline and ill health. A limited sample I grant you, but it was enough to convince me. Your mileage may vary.

I'm no raw food nutter, but there is a middle ground and it's often cheaper and IMHO better than going the "Pedigree" etc way.


*EG weeks supply of chicken thighs? 2.50 euro. Enough veggies in frozen form for the week? another 2 quid. Lamb, offal and bones? With a friendly local butcher who you get your meat from(usually much better quality than the supermarkets), very cheap and in the case of bones free. doing this you could get it under a tenner a week, especially for smaller dogs

Cliona99

Wow, busy forum!

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

My dog is about 12 years old, mixed breed, (like a staffordshire bull terrier, but taller), and weighs 24kg. I've had her on a diet for the past year and can finally feel her ribs!

I think I'm going to order the smallest bag of Light/Senior and see how it goes.

Thanks for all your help!

tk123

Cliona99 wrote: »

Wow, busy forum!

Thanks for all the replies and advice.



My dog is about 12 years old, mixed breed, (like a staffordshire bull terrier, but taller), and weighs 24kg. I've had her on a diet for the past year and can finally feel her ribs!

I think I'm going to order the smallest bag of Light/Senior and see how it goes.

Thanks for all your help!

Most places will send you free samples if you mail them

cora2

My hubbys old vet when he was alive used to say never feed a dog pedigree. Its like mcdonalds to a kid. I know you were saying about price but if you work out what your paying for pedigree

bluesmurf

Hi Neevie....... Any advice on the following... Thanks.....:)
We have recently bought a Pure Breed Red Setter Female, 12 Months old, Very active, feeds well, but is very underweight, has no ill health but
She is 6Kg under weight, Can anyone recommend ways to Build her Weight up.
We were at the Vets today and he recommended “Pro Pac Dog, High Performance, Superpremium Dog Food” and Feeding her Twice a Day.
I have done some research on this brand of dog food and the feedback from Dog Owners was not good and Im worried about feeding her this Brand.
Has anyone had any experience with this Brand of Dog Food,
I would be delighted with any feedback and advice. . . .

cora2

Hey bluesmurf, give whites a phone. My gsd was underweight n been on their lamb for 2 weeks & I have started to see a bit of a diff. The woman on the phone was very helpful & gave me some good tips to make sure i get weight on her

bluesmurf

cora2 wrote: »

Hey bluesmurf, give whites a phone. My gsd was underweight n been on their lamb for 2 weeks & I have started to see a bit of a diff. The woman on the phone was very helpful & gave me some good tips to make sure i get weight on her

Hey Cora2

Thanks a million for that.. are they just called Whites Dog Food...

Ill give them a call tomorrow..

Thanks again

Regards
Smurff

cora2

Hey bluesmurf,

There website is www.whites-premium.ie thats where I got the phone number from

neevie21

bluesmurf wrote: »

Hi Neevie....... Any advice on the following... Thanks.....:)
We have recently bought a Pure Breed Red Setter Female, 12 Months old, Very active, feeds well, but is very underweight, has no ill health but
She is 6Kg under weight, Can anyone recommend ways to Build her Weight up.
We were at the Vets today and he recommended “Pro Pac Dog, High Performance, Superpremium Dog Food” and Feeding her Twice a Day.
I have done some research on this brand of dog food and the feedback from Dog Owners was not good and Im worried about feeding her this Brand.
Has anyone had any experience with this Brand of Dog Food,
I would be delighted with any feedback and advice. . . .

Ok if she's feeding well and still underweight - make sure she's wormed and all of her vaccinations are up to date, just to make 100 percent sure she's not carrying any underlying mild parasite burden. Propac is a good brand, and offering her food ONLY twice a day is a really good way of getting to eat more when she's offered food. If you train her into the mindset that she is only going to get the food at the time you're offering it - she should eat more. propac is also very palatable - most dogs like the taste of it. Avoid the tinned foods at any cost. Dogs like the taste but they're so full of salt and fat etc.
Neutering dogs definitely makes them gain weight as well. It might be worth thinking about if you're not going to breed from her, plus it stops them from getting horrible uterine infections like pyometria when they get older.
She might just be naturally very active and/or possess a very fast metabolism - if so getting her to put on weight is going to be a struggle, so the best thing to do in that instance is to be vigilant with feeding her twice a day and continue to feed her good quality dog food. Don't try and fill her up with human food. Dogs require a different balance of nutrients than we do and our food is not suitable for them. Table scraps should not comprise more than 5% of her diet.

mark1310

hi i would reccomend going to maxi zoo and asking them for a sample of real nature puppy food, id rcommend puppy food for you as puppy food has the higest amount of nutririon of all the foods. if you put your dog on puppy it should bulk up quicker then what it would adult food.

DogsFirst

15kg of whites @€;39 lasted me just over 3 months (need to start marking dates to see myself)for a medium and a small dog.

2x8kg Royal canin lasted me 4 months.

Does anyone ever wonder the effects of feeding their dog food from a bag that has been open in their cupboard for 3 months? What sort of stuff must they be putting in the food to preserve fats for that long without going rancid? Then theres dust mites and the oxidization of vitamins over time.

Check out this article that shows Vitamins B & E in dry dog food deplete by up to 50% in just 6 months (Hoffmann La Rodue, F. T. (1995). Paper presented at the science and technology Centre, Hills Pet Nutrition, Inc., Topeka, K.S., on vitamin stability in canned and extruded pet food). Your bag of food is at least that before you even buy it.

Re the price of food, you can buy one kg of minced beef or fresh chicken wings now for less than €3 in Lidl or Aldi, at €60 for 15kg you are already paying an extra ordinary price for a food that is majority cheap cereal and plant protein.

My tip, cut back on that stuff and get fresh food into your dog. Like us, dogs need fresh food, fresh ingredients. And they're carnivores so get the meat in. Tin of sardines 40cents in Lidl!! Whole mackerel €2 in Supervalu. It's a no brainer. Back to the olden days.

Best of luck!

DogsFirst

bluesmurf wrote: »

Hi Neevie....... Any advice on the following... Thanks.....:)
We have recently bought a Pure Breed Red Setter Female, 12 Months old, Very active, feeds well, but is very underweight, has no ill health but
She is 6Kg under weight, Can anyone recommend ways to Build her Weight up.
We were at the Vets today and he recommended “Pro Pac Dog, High Performance, Superpremium Dog Food” and Feeding her Twice a Day.
I have done some research on this brand of dog food and the feedback from Dog Owners was not good and Im worried about feeding her this Brand.
Has anyone had any experience with this Brand of Dog Food,
I would be delighted with any feedback and advice. . . .

Hi Bluesmurf,

Check out this article on red setters and gluten intolerance http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1465503 or simply go to "google scholar" and type in red setters and gluten, or do a simple google search.

This is a really common problems with setters, white coated breeds (that tend to have skin issues) and problem breeds such as shepards, boxers poodles that tend to have gastro issues. 30% of humans are gluten (a plant protein) intolerant and we've been eating it for 2000 years. Dogs are carnivores, less adapted to breaking down plants then we are, they've only been eating it 40 years AND 50% of their diet now contains it in the form of cheap cereal.

Its common for the breeds mentioned to have a problem with gluten. This dietary sensitivity not only plays havoc with their digestion, blocking absorption of vital nutrients and nutrition as a whole, but also ruins immune systems if continually fed resulting in orthopaedic disease (shepards), cancer (dogs suffer more cancer than humans), skin issues (poodles and white coated breeds) not to mention behavioural issues.

My advice, go with the rapidly growing trend of gluten free dog food. If you wanted to do that bit more, feed them fresh food. Raw chicken wings, bees ribs, lamb necks, all less than €3/kg! Sardines and any other meat you can get your hands on with maybe 20% cooked veg thrown in. Feed him like the carnivore he is and his whole being will respond accordingly. Promise! I have a lot of experience in these things.

DogsFirst

Well put. With you all the way on that one.

andreac

DogsFirst wrote: »

Well put. With you all the way on that one.

Huh?? Are you responding to your own posts??

DogsFirst

andreac wrote: »

Huh?? Are you responding to your own posts??

Ha! How embarassing. New to this forum. Not yet sure how to respond to other posts!! Really sorry.

Cracked off three in a row to different comments.....

Learning....always learning..........

Wibbs

DogsFirst wrote: »

30% of humans are gluten (a plant protein) intolerant and we've been eating it for 2000 years.

We've been eating it for nigh on 10,000 years and have adapted on the genetic level to do so(or not as the case may be). Like you said dogs most certainly have not been exposed to it for nearly as long and again as you say not at the levels they're eating it now in the form of dry food, even the "quality" foods. They're not omnivores like us, or to the degree we are. One major thing about humans and what made us so successful is our ability to survive or thrive on a very wide range of foods.

Then throw in the really low quality ingredients, ingredients not cleared for human consumption(and if you've ever eaten a takeaway sausage...) and other additives and I'm shocked more vets and breeders are not crying foul. In the human world they most certainly would be. I mean why the hell have we ads on the telly for products to stop dental caries in dogs? Carnivores should be a lot less prone to it.

My advice, go with the rapidly growing trend of gluten free dog food. If you wanted to do that bit more, feed them fresh food. Raw chicken wings, bees ribs, lamb necks, all less than €3/kg! Sardines and any other meat you can get your hands on with maybe 20% cooked veg thrown in. Feed him like the carnivore he is and his whole being will respond accordingly. Promise! I have a lot of experience in these things.

My own experience such as it is would echo this in a big way. And is often way cheaper. Wash your hands before and after though and no cooked bones.

Squall19

Wibbs wrote: »

An animal evolved to be an almost exclusive carnivore.

I'm no raw food nutter, but there is a middle ground and it's often cheaper and IMHO better than going the "Pedigree" etc way.

EG weeks supply of chicken thighs? 2.50 euro. Enough veggies in frozen form for the week? another 2 quid. Lamb, offal and bones? With a friendly local butcher who you get your meat from(usually much better quality than the supermarkets), very cheap and in the case of bones free. doing this you could get it under a tenner a week, especially for smaller dogs

Hi Wibbs

If you dont mind me asking?

What kinda of dog do you have?

What weight is he, age, physical activity etc?

I have been feeding my fella like that since he was a pup, he is a 2 year old 40kg Husky/Mal mix, he eats beta purina nuts and raw meat ( well not raw I boil the meat).

This diet costs me a good bit ( about 20e a week ), he does love it.He loves the broth from the chicken on his nuts lol.

I have been giving him 2-3 cups of nuts with a 1kg pack of chicken thigths, legs etc ( boiled and bones removed, I peel off all the meat off the bone for him:D ) with all the bones removed there is maybe 700g of meat.

I feed him that daily and if there is good deal, like reduced price on lamb, beef in the supermarkets I give him that instead of chicken, but its mostly chicken .

I take him out everyday and work him on the bicycle a few times a week ( he pulls me a few km's everyday ), so he's not fat all.

Vet tells me to just stick him on nuts, as the protein is making him constipated, he doesn't go much, once a day mostly.

If I add in veg, eggs, rice etc he wont touch the food, only reason he eats the nuts is for the meat.

portgirl123

sorry just reading this now as far as im aware from last time i was in my local pet shop looking at prices a 15kg bag of pedigree was €40 something a 15kg bag of whites is €39.

ppink

Squall19 wrote: »

I have been giving him 2-3 cups of nuts with a 1kg pack of chicken thigths, legs etc ( boiled and bones removed, I peel off all the meat off the bone for him:D ) with all the bones removed there is maybe 700g of meat.

.

I used to this for ages but then I just fired the whole lot through my mincer...bones and all. It is a lot handier and the bones are minced to nothing so no chance of hurting the dogs.
my mincer is only able for chicken bones though.

andreac

Squall19 wrote: »

Hi Wibbs

If you dont mind me asking?

What kinda of dog do you have?

What weight is he, age, physical activity etc?

I have been feeding my fella like that since he was a pup, he is a 2 year old 40kg Husky/Mal mix, he eats beta purina nuts and raw meat ( well not raw I boil the meat).

This diet costs me a good bit ( about 20e a week ), he does love it.He loves the broth from the chicken on his nuts lol.

I have been giving him 2-3 cups of nuts with a 1kg pack of chicken thigths, legs etc ( boiled and bones removed, I peel off all the meat off the bone for him:D ) with all the bones removed there is maybe 700g of meat.

I feed him that daily and if there is good deal, like reduced price on lamb, beef in the supermarkets I give him that instead of chicken, but its mostly chicken .

I take him out everyday and work him on the bicycle a few times a week ( he pulls me a few km's everyday ), so he's not fat all.

Vet tells me to just stick him on nuts, as the protein is making him constipated, he doesn't go much, once a day mostly.

If I add in veg, eggs, rice etc he wont touch the food, only reason he eats the nuts is for the meat.

You should feed your meat raw, esp the chicken as its great for them, the bones are really good too. Raw diet is brilliant and if i could afford it for my 2 (rotties) its what i would be feeding them.

If you are feeding the dry food there really isnt a need to feed all that meat as well, its really one or the other, or just a little bit of meat here and there but i wouldnt be feeding all that meat and nuts.

Wibbs

Squall19 wrote: »

Hi Wibbs

If you dont mind me asking?

What kinda of dog do you have?

What weight is he, age, physical activity etc?

Well my current fella is a pup so... My last guy was a shepherd/husky mix topped out at near 50kg. Very active, damn near hyper As he got older he ate less as he got less active. He passed away at two months off 17 years of age and other than vaccinations never saw the inside of a vets in those years.

This diet costs me a good bit ( about 20e a week ), he does love it.He loves the broth from the chicken on his nuts lol.

steady

I have been giving him 2-3 cups of nuts with a 1kg pack of chicken thigths, legs etc ( boiled and bones removed, I peel off all the meat off the bone for him:D ) with all the bones removed there is maybe 700g of meat.

I feed him that daily and if there is good deal, like reduced price on lamb, beef in the supermarkets I give him that instead of chicken, but its mostly chicken .

I take him out everyday and work him on the bicycle a few times a week ( he pulls me a few km's everyday ), so he's not fat all.

Vet tells me to just stick him on nuts, as the protein is making him constipated, he doesn't go much, once a day mostly.

If I add in veg, eggs, rice etc he wont touch the food, only reason he eats the nuts is for the meat.

My pup now and my last guy was mad for raw veggies. Though as pups less so. Not the carb heavy ones, whole carrots and the like. I suppose like people dogs differ. On the meat side I always fed raw(other than bits of fat from steaks I munched. Then again I like steak blue ), bones and all. IMHO that's the point. Mine love the bones. Crunch away happily and good for their teeth and jaw development. Chicken bones don't last long. Matter of minutes. But THEY MUST BE RAW. I can't emphasise this enough. Cooked chicken and other thin walled bones will splinter and cause problems. But growing up years ago.. people regularly gave their dogs bones from the butchers. My childhood dog(elkhound) used to be given whole and raw sheeps heads and pretty much eat the lot but the teeth.

Cost wise I'd be thinking more 15 quid, but your 20 isn't too off the mark. A friendly family butcher that you get the rest of your meat from rather than tescos is a major advantage. In any event IMHO you get better and better value meat for your own table and free bones and the like for your doggie.

On the constipation front, I found that on this kinda diet they poo a lot less anyway and the poo is not nearly as messy. So IMHO it's not constipation. And on that score I never had problems with impacted anal glands either. Well not quite true. My dog before my last(pedigree German Shepherd) I went the convenience route and he was fed on the dry food and tins and he didn't live nearly as long and had a lot of vet visits. Now it was likely a fair bit to do with the genetics as too many GSD's have problems from breeding, but I'd strongly believe the diet is a fair whack of it.

Wibbs

andreac wrote: »

You should feed your meat raw, esp the chicken as its great for them, the bones are really good too. Raw diet is brilliant and if i could afford it for my 2 (rotties) its what i would be feeding them.

If you are feeding the dry food there really isnt a need to feed all that meat as well, its really one or the other, or just a little bit of meat here and there but i wouldnt be feeding all that meat and nuts.

+1 on both counts.

chris139ryan

can you give bones from the butchers to pups or is there a recommended age before you start feeding them bones. my bull terrier is 12 weeks old so im just asking for him.