Politics Election Forum & Bias

gandalf

Empty vessels make the most noise.

Orion

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The Shinners use this site to promote their propaganda and they do it with the tacit support of the 'management'.

Do you actually believe the sh|te you come out with? Or is it just absurd posturing?

FlutterinBantam

gandalf wrote: »

Empty vessels make the most noise.

Orion wrote: »

Do you actually believe the sh|te you come out with? Or is it just absurd posturing?

There we have two perfect examples of posters who are afraid to confront reality.

Instead they try denigrate the poster rather than admitting that this is the case.

Of course, that kind of 'effort' is rife in that area where posters only see what they want to see.

Sad really.

IITYWYBMAD

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

There we have two perfect examples of posters who are afraid to confront reality.

Instead they try denigrate the poster rather than admitting that this is the case.

Of course, that kind of 'effort' is rife in that area where posters only see what they want to see.

Sad really.

While I agree with your sentiment, and in fact the statistics would backup your point that there appears to be a more leftist/SF demographic to the posters who utilize the Politics Forum, I don't see where you propose a solution, or at least a viable one?

Would what you suggest? Vetting, censure, A concerted attempt to recruit opposing views? Seriously, what is the solution.

Your observation about the comments above also deserve recognition as they appear to be both "acting the dick" and attacking the poster....

Dav

First and foremost, I want an end to the personal comments on this thread. As IITYWYBMAD quite rightly says, they are attacking the poster and being a dick and it ends now.

I don't think there's any question about this being underhanded shilling or even against the rules - as mentioned earlier there's a SF bias amongst the members on this site - my personal disappointments that so many people seem to support a group like this aside - there aren't any reasons for me to think that we should attempt to do something about it. Every party's members and supporters are welcome to come here and thrash out whatever issues, it's not Sinn Féin's fault that they've got more net-savvy supporters.

It's usually pretty obvious who the supporters of any party are, it's also obvious which of them talk sense and which bl33t pointless and mis-informed rhetoric. I think if people are that concerned, they should either point out the flaws in arguements and leave it at that or just ignore it.

Mega-Threads per candidate as Sully has suggested: It's not entirely without merrit, but I think I'd prefer to see threads on the issues and how they relate to all candidates and I'd also say it's as fair to have (for example) threads about David Norris' sick leave as it is Seán Gallagher's FF ties as well as Martin McGuinness' ties with terrorism. These are important topics, they deserve to be discussed, but we cannot call foul because there happen to be more people on one side of the arguement than the other - that's not how this site works or should work.

How do you counter-act the slant in the demographic? You encourage the other parties/candidate's supporters to get involved. If they don't see the benefit of talking to voters and debating the issues on a place the size of Boards.ie then that's their loss tbh

FlutterinBantam

Dav wrote: »

First and foremost, I want an end to the personal comments on this thread. As IITYWYBMAD quite rightly says, they are attacking the poster and being a dick and it ends now.

I don't think there's any question about this being underhanded shilling or even against the rules - as mentioned earlier there's a SF bias amongst the members on this site - my personal disappointments that so many people seem to support a group like this aside - there aren't any reasons for me to think that we should attempt to do something about it. Every party's members and supporters are welcome to come here and thrash out whatever issues, it's not Sinn Féin's fault that they've got more net-savvy supporters.

It's usually pretty obvious who the supporters of any party are, it's also obvious which of them talk sense and which bl33t pointless and mis-informed rhetoric. I think if people are that concerned, they should either point out the flaws in arguements and leave it at that or just ignore it.

Mega-Threads per candidate as Sully has suggested: It's not entirely without merrit, but I think I'd prefer to see threads on the issues and how they relate to all candidates and I'd also say it's as fair to have (for example) threads about David Norris' sick leave as it is Seán Gallagher's FF ties as well as Martin McGuinness' ties with terrorism. These are important topics, they deserve to be discussed, but we cannot call foul because there happen to be more people on one side of the arguement than the other - that's not how this site works or should work.

How do you counter-act the slant in the demographic? You encourage the other parties/candidate's supporters to get involved. If they don't see the benefit of talking to voters and debating the issues on a place the size of Boards.ie then that's their loss tbh

Excellent post Dav, fair play to you for having the balls as a Boards.ie Mgmnt. person to say what everybody knows.

In fairness ,there is little the Corporate entity can do about it, but the acknowledgement that the Shinners are profligate on sites like this, on any forum or phone-in show such as Liveline etc is refreshing and needed.

Maybe if the mgmnt of the various threads and fora contiguous to these subjects were so open and honest as you, we wouldn't have lengthy feedback threads like this where some people deny the blindingly obvious.

If I have misconstrued your contribution, I'm sorry.

Well said indeed.

votecounts

As i said before, i fail to see the SF bias just the anti SF threads like was started by one of the Mods. An example would be McGuinness and Gadafi, hardly a pro Sinn Fein Thread. If anthing, SF is being attacked at every opportunity.

Sully

votecounts wrote: »

As i said before, i fail to see the SF bias just the anti SF threads like was started by one of the Mods. An example would be McGuinness and Gadafi, hardly a pro Sinn Fein Thread. If anthing, SF is being attacked at every opportunity.

You seem to be a SF supporter, so wouldn't see it

and I wasn't bashing SF or anything.

gandalf

FlutterinBantam I wasn't aiming that comment at you, I was referring to the legion of SF cheerleaders that swarm on any thread vaguely related to their "hero" warlord leaders in Politics.

It has been the case since politics was formed on this site. Tbh the vast majority are Sinn Feins worst enemies because their weak and indoctrinated attempts at defending the indefensible is helping to educate those who didn't live through the 70's & 80's about the reality of the "Peoples" President and his ilk.

Zaph

votecounts wrote: »

As i said before, i fail to see the SF bias just the anti SF threads like was started by one of the Mods.

Just to be clear about this, Sully's position as a mod has absolutely nothing to do with him starting this thread. Outside of the forums he moderates he's just an ordinary poster like yourself, and is entitled to express his opinions here accordingly. Should his opinions on SF, politics in general or anything else for that matter adversely impact his ability to mod any of those forums, then his position becomes relevant, but not before this happens.

Dudess

Tbh, I don't see a very blatant "indoctrination" campaign by Sinn Fein supporters/associates, just expressions of support, varying from the moderate to the crazed. Some of them are fanatical - doing things like posting appalling comments that are in support of violence campaigns, and resorting to abusive messages (I got one once implying I deserved to be shot because I said on-thread that I was an anglophile :pac:) and obviously they deserve to be banned, but simply expressing support for the party? While I disagree with support of SF, why is that agenda-pushing?

Flutt, I'm sure if the same sentiments were expressed re your preferred party, you wouldnae have a problem.

It happened in AH too but anyone who raises a contrary view is viewed as a crank and infracted.

Perhaps it's the antagonistic, snide, passive-aggressive, veiled insulted WAY they raise it rather than the mere raising of it? I'd put money on it...

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You see there's the problem, if you don't like the message or it somehow goes against the grain of the majority, you are hobbyhorsing, while the insidious propaganda goes on and everybody is afraid to confront it.

People have no problem confronting SF supporters here.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

the more insightful,and less driven posters have said it as it is.

As in, those you agree with...

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What we have here is a left wing push

Ooh left-wing - oh noez! Why are SF supporters automatically left-wing? A lot aren't.

In my opinion the Mods in charge of these areas are lacking in social skills and experience, so they infract and ban anyone who disagrees with the general trend,and tar any contrary views as trolling and mischief makers.

Again, pure bias - and... bizarre. What's with the unsubstantiated insulting of the moderators? And it wouldn't apply if it were in relation to something you agree with.

There is no doubt about it.

There is doubt about it.

No need for links or otherwise.

Oh how strange that... :rolleyes:

The Shinners use this site to promote their propaganda and they do it with the tacit support of the 'management'.

What?!
Which management? Orion merely questioned that comment of yours - can't see what was wrong with that.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You see that post copper fastens my point of view.

Accuse a poster of being a troll whilst denying what everyone knows.

Are you saying you don't antagonise? How come the bans so? And what's all this "No question about it", "Everyone knows" stuff?

FlutterinBantam

Dudess wrote: »

Tbh, I don't see a very blatant "indoctrination" campaign by Sinn Fein supporters/associates, just expressions of support, varying from the moderate to the crazed. Some of them are fanatical - doing things like posting appalling comments that are in support of violence campaigns, and resorting to abusive messages (I got one once implying I deserved to be shot because I said on-thread that I was an anglophile :pac:) and obviously they deserve to be banned, but simply expressing support for the party? While I disagree with support of SF, why is that agenda-pushing?

Flutt, I'm sure if the same sentiments were expressed re your preferred party, you wouldnae have a problem.

Perhaps it's the antagonistic, snide, passive-aggressive, veiled insulted WAY they raise it rather than the mere raising of it? I'd put money on it...


People have no problem confronting SF supporters here.

As in, those you agree with...

Ooh left-wing - oh noez! Why are SF supporters automatically left-wing? A lot aren't.

Again, pure bias - and... bizarre. What's with the unsubstantiated insulting of the moderators? And it wouldn't apply if it were in relation to something you agree with.

There is doubt about it.

Oh how strange that... :rolleyes:

What?!
Which management? Orion merely questioned that comment of yours - can't see what was wrong with that.

Are you saying you don't antagonise? How come the bans so? And what's all this "No question about it", "Everyone knows" stuff?

Excellent post and a lot of it true, I will have to admit.

I do antagonise, but in a way which challenges the 'Mom and Apple pie' views put out by a lot of posters here.

Now I don't want to mess up an important thread with personal stuff but what i am pointing out is the use of these facilities esp. Politics and AH to promote SF views.
Every crack in the system is used to put forward an SF view,and nothing 'wrong 'with that, just admit that this happens?

SF are proficient in getting their supporters to load up on phone ins, polls, forums etc.

Nothing 'wrong' with that, just admit it happens.

That's all I am saying,and Mods really need to be vigilant to ensure that contrary views are treated fairly, just like Dav. did with the post that orion posted

Let's just everyone admit that the Emperor has no clothes and go on from there

Dudess

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I do antagonise, but in a way which challenges the 'Mom and Apple pie' views put out by a lot of posters here.

"Mom and apple pie" seems like a Tea Party, or at least U.S. Republican Party, type approach. :pac:
Doesn't seem like your rebuttals to people with whom you disagree (and that's all it boils down to - not taking into account how well they make their points, just the fact you disagree with them) are to achieve anything worthy, but simply to rile. You don't say anything constructive - just throw out fallacies, assumptions, tired sound-bites. You say you want to avoid being personal, but when you throw out stuff like on this thread, you can't expect people not to challenge such hypocrisy - you only take issue with how something is conducted here, mod decisions etc, when you disagree with the point of view in question.

what i am pointing out is the use of these facilities esp. Politics and AH to promote SF views.
Every crack in the system is used to put forward an SF view,and nothing 'wrong 'with that, just admit that this happens?

I simply see people expressing their support - interpret that as pushing an agenda (and again, bear in mind much of that is simply down to you disagreeing with them). Some of them are disgraceful, and clearly back murder campaigns and deserve a ban, which they get; but others, while you don't like what they have to say, I don't like what they have to say, are merely making their views known. The very same approach by someone with regards to Fine Gael... I don't think you'd see it as agenda-pushing.
Maybe the above is all that it takes for you to view it as agenda-pushing, and maybe you're right when it comes to a party with a history like Sinn Fein, but saying all those views are part of an orchestrated plot... is just saying something for the sake of it.

Mods really need to be vigilant to ensure that contrary views are treated fairly

They are. You also see SF supporters complaining here about an anti-republican bias, so it's very much down to what a person's perspective is, what corner they occupy.

I don't think Orion was out of order at all - he asked a legitimate question, even if the language was a bit inflammatory. It was in response to an inflammatory claim, to be fair.

FlutterinBantam

Dudess wrote: »

I simply see people expressing their support - interpret that as pushing an agenda (and again, bear in mind much of that is simply down to you disagreeing with them). Some of them are disgraceful, and clearly back murder campaigns and deserve a ban, which they get; but others, while you don't like what they have to say, I don't like what they have to say, are merely making their views known. The very same approach by someone with regards to Fine Gael... I don't think you'd see it as agenda-pushing.
Maybe the above is all that it takes for you to view it as agenda-pushing, and maybe you're right when it comes to a party with a history like Sinn Fein, but saying all those views are part of an orchestrated plot... is just saying something for the sake of it.

They are. You also see SF supporters complaining here about an anti-republican bias, so it's very much down to what a person's perspective is, what corner they occupy.

I don't think Orion was out of order at all - he asked a legitimate question, even if the language was a bit inflammatory. It was in response to an inflammatory claim, to be fair.

No, he was out of order, I thought so, Dav seemed to think so.

You see ,there in microcosm is the problem, the lad was out of order, no question, instead of saying it as it is, you are bleating about other stuff.


That's what's wrong, people trying to deny what anyone with a modicum of cop on can see.

Expand that to the whole situation and you have the problem Sully outlined.

Why can't people see what is in front of them

Dudess

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No, he was out of order, I thought so, Dav seemed to think so.

Of course you thought so - it was an attack on you! I can't speak for Dav, but I understand where he was coming from re the language, certainly not the sentiment though. Claiming "management" backs a Sinn Fein-endorsing campaign...?

You see ,there in microcosm is the problem, the lad was out of order, no question

No question? Um, no... I don't think he was out order - I have a differing opinion to you.

instead of saying it as it is, you are bleating about other stuff.

I don't think that's "it as it is" actually - there in microcosm is the problem: you insist your opinion is the reality and refuse to recognise that others have differing opinions to you.
I wasn't "bleating about other stuff" - I was making concrete points, but you ignore and dismiss them because it doesn't suit you to address them.

That's what's wrong, people trying to deny what anyone with a modicum of cop on can see.

Translation: anyone who agrees with my subjective opinion is right, anyone who doesn't, no matter how well they put their point of view across, is wrong.

Why can't people see what is in front of them

I explained in detail my own position on this topic - you don't need to pretend I didn't, simply because you disagree with it. If I wrote in the exact same fashion but you agreed with it, there'd be a blizzard of "Well said pal", "Great post indeed :cool:" stuff from you.
Why can't you see what's in front of you?

And what about when YOU'RE out of order? You claim you're being ganged up on by mods and fellow posters and you're doing nothing wrong, when you know the seeds are sown by yourself.