Direct drilling cereals

hillclimber

Does anybody have any experience of the above? either with the Moore uni drill or any other min till system. My grain acreage is likely to increase from 70 odd acres to over 200 this year and I am considering my options for sowing crops, currently using a contractor for ploughing and sowing. I am aware that some guys ran into sterile brome grass problems, would be gratefull for any thoughts or opinions.

jeff greene

PM Bob Charles, he has mentioned it before I think, he may see the thread first though.

nilhg

I don't know of anyone doing genuine direct drilling over here, I think a few did try it at the start of the min till boom but slugs and grass weeds put a quick stop to the experiment.

Min till itself works quite well if the weather co-operates but in my opinion needs a very high standard of management to get consistent results on a par with the plough based system.

OP it'd help us to give you some more advise if you gave us a little more info about your cropping plans and general farm setup.

bob charles

just waiting to get maize cut so as to get wheat DD in, but with weather conditions as they are there is a good chance it might not happen. Unfortunately my cropping rotation doesnt fit DD very well as i have roots in it and also by the looks of things will also have to plough for maize with the use of plastic. For DD cereals you need to be moving in September something I have never being able to achieve. I DD hybrid ryegrass into maize stubble this day last year and it the take was perfect but as I always say you have to plan for DD. Its not something you decide today to go head first at it tomorrow. If your going cereal into cereals and removing straw and spreading organic matter it should be simples. the Moore unidrill no matter how old is as good as anything without spending an arm and leg

ihatetractors

:rolleyes:More weeds, more disease, more pests. Works grand in Oz where it's so dry they don't have regular moisture.. As for a moores :rolleyes:, buy a set of heavy discs and put an accord oil driven pneumatic on it. Seen it working grand in uk goin through chopped straw with no blockaages

bob charles

ihatetractors wrote: »

:rolleyes:More weeds, more disease, more pests. Works grand in Oz where it's so dry they don't have regular moisture.. As for a moores :rolleyes:, buy a set of heavy discs and put an accord oil driven pneumatic on it. Seen it working grand in uk goin through chopped straw with no blockaages

Is your above comments from experience??? I bet not. Moisture is the most important component in DD and many DD to retain moisture but by god we have no such problem in Ireland. As for more weeds - quite the opposite is the case, cant say an increase in disease, maybe more pest in slugs but nothing a few pellets. Its sure better that trodding up and down a field on a wet day like today ploughing up slabs of clay and then mauling in wheat into a fine compacted soil. If your prepared to work with the system it should be a success

nilhg

bob charles wrote: »

Is your above comments from experience??? I bet not. Moisture is the most important component in DD and many DD to retain moisture but by god we have no such problem in Ireland. As for more weeds - quite the opposite is the case, cant say an increase in disease, maybe more pest in slugs but nothing a few pellets. Its sure better that trodding up and down a field on a wet day like today ploughing up slabs of clay and then mauling in wheat into a fine compacted soil. If your prepared to work with the system it should be a success

I have some limited experience of min till here at home and have a neighbour who has been completely min till for quite a while so I've a fair idea of the various pluses and minuses.

As for genuine direct drilling I can only rely on what I was told by someone who tried it a long time ago and failed completely to control slugs, there is a limit to how many slug pellets you can spread, and I along with quite a few others think that the pelllets cause almost as much harm as they cure in damage to other soil organisms.

As for weeds if there is no cultivation control of weeds (stale seedbed or ploughing down seeds) it stands to reason that weed control will be more difficult and again relying almost completely on chemical control isn't the ideal way to go IMHO.

ihatetractors

bob charles wrote: »

Is your above comments from experience??? I bet not. Moisture is the most important component in DD and many DD to retain moisture but by god we have no such problem in Ireland. As for more weeds - quite the opposite is the case, cant say an increase in disease, maybe more pest in slugs but nothing a few pellets. Its sure better that trodding up and down a field on a wet day like today ploughing up slabs of clay and then mauling in wheat into a fine compacted soil. If your prepared to work with the system it should be a success

Planted 2,000 acres with a sumo versa drill over summer of osr/ wheat in suffolk this year, like a trio but with a drill aswell.
Well actualy we tried DD for 3 years on 100 acres or so in a trial vs ploughing vs min-til, got a local to drill with his moores uni. Kept blocking with thrash and has since worked out running a grass harrow levels out straw and gets volunteers going. Never got near same yeilds due to pests like leather jackets because they were never worked, and just found not buirying straw left disease on top. Slug pelleting should only be needed on osr/ beans
As you say, moisture is main thing in dd, in only a year like the one past for spring crops was it any help over here...
We'd everything ploughed by 1st week of October, drilled up 2 days later and rolled. So no, no going around pulling up sods :rolleyes:.
And no, plantin osr gets rid of compaction like nothing else, and the fact we have very forgiving medium shaley soil mostly.
As for experience, i should think i've done alot more than most tbh..

hillclimber

Thanks for all the input, will take it on board. I have very little machinery myself so will probably stick with contractor for ploughing and sowing conventionally and do spraying, fert. etc myself. In an ideal world the DD should cut down on labour and capital outlay . Alas we dont live in an ideal world.:)

bob charles

ihatetractors wrote: »

Planted 2,000 acres with a sumo versa drill over summer of osr/ wheat in suffolk this year, like a trio but with a drill aswell.
Well actualy we tried DD for 3 years on 100 acres or so in a trial vs ploughing vs min-til, got a local to drill with his moores uni. Kept blocking with thrash and has since worked out running a grass harrow levels out straw and gets volunteers going. Never got near same yeilds due to pests like leather jackets because they were never worked, and just found not buirying straw left disease on top. Slug pelleting should only be needed on osr/ beans
As you say, moisture is main thing in dd, in only a year like the one past for spring crops was it any help over here...
We'd everything ploughed by 1st week of October, drilled up 2 days later and rolled. So no, no going around pulling up sods :rolleyes:.
And no, plantin osr gets rid of compaction like nothing else, and the fact we have very forgiving medium shaley soil mostly.
As for experience, i should think i've done alot more than most tbh..

the Sumo versa is far from a direct drill though:rolleyes:, Your trial period of three years wasnt too long but many things just went disastrous for you. Rotation is very important in DD and always having a growing crop is vital. I have never ran into problems with a trash blocking a moore and I have DD a good bit of maize which is trash central. Thing work for some people and dont work for other for a variety of reasons. High establishment costs when grain price is high doesnt really matter but when grain hits the floor again I sure prefer to have lower establishment costs. Horses for courses

ihatetractors

bob charles wrote: »

the Sumo versa is far from a direct drill though:rolleyes:, Your trial period of three years wasnt too long but many things just went disastrous for you. Rotation is very important in DD and always having a growing crop is vital. I have never ran into problems with a trash blocking a moore and I have DD a good bit of maize which is trash central. Thing work for some people and dont work for other for a variety of reasons. High establishment costs when grain price is high doesnt really matter but when grain hits the floor again I sure prefer to have lower establishment costs. Horses for courses

Were you get sumo versa isnt a DD machine i dont know, turns/ subsoils some clay is a goodthing last i heard...... ,even if it can cope with other conditions ie min til - ploughing.
As for 05 06 07 they werent exactly disaster of years DD goin by our accounts.
Infairness cover crops are basics for a serious arable farmer... never mind having a rotation:rolleyes:
Where maize is trash central i dont know?, usualy muck more so..
Gluck mate, get back to me when you get serious.

As for hillclimber, DD has it's places maybe when lads realise arable farms are no less then monsters that convert oil via, fert, sprays, cultivations into grain we might learn..:rolleyes:

bob charles

ihatetractors wrote: »

Were you get sumo versa isnt a DD machine i dont know, turns/ subsoils some clay is a goodthing last i heard...... ,even if it can cope with other conditions ie min til - ploughing.
As for 05 06 07 they werent exactly disaster of years DD goin by our accounts.
Infairness cover crops are basics for a serious arable farmer... never mind having a rotation:rolleyes:
Where maize is trash central i dont know?, usualy muck more so..
Gluck mate, get back to me when you get serious.

As for hillclimber, DD has it's places maybe when lads realise arable farms are no less then monsters that convert oil via, fert, sprays, cultivations into grain we might learn..:rolleyes:

Look the versa drill is a cultivation drill last time I checked, DD drills dont involve soil movement. Its a very very good machine but not as you describe a DD.

When you say you have blockage issues when direct drilling was it with the previous crops trash our poor soil conditions. I can see how you could get trash problems expecially if you bale straw maybe a little more of an issue if straw is chopped. Pity straw burning isnt allowed anymore as it solved many of todays problems with all guises of establishment.

I dont understand when you say that your DD wasnt a disaster in yours 05,06,07 going by your financial accounts so why did you go back to the tried and tested? having less grain to sell if reduced yield from DD is often not a bad thing considering how much cheaper DD is compared to conventional, its your overall farm return thats the key.

Look whatever system suits each operation go for it, It works very well for me and looking forward to the removal of subs so we can really farm. (A Dream) as so much of the land is tied up in stupid schemes it irks me. I consider myself serious about it as I do enough acres to say it can work.

bob charles

ihatetractors wrote: »

Were you get sumo versa isnt a DD machine i dont know, turns/ subsoils some clay is a goodthing last i heard...... ,even if it can cope with other conditions ie min til - ploughing.
As for 05 06 07 they werent exactly disaster of years DD goin by our accounts.
Infairness cover crops are basics for a serious arable farmer... never mind having a rotation:rolleyes:
Where maize is trash central i dont know?, usualy muck more so..
Gluck mate, get back to me when you get serious.

As for hillclimber, DD has it's places maybe when lads realise arable farms are no less then monsters that convert oil via, fert, sprays, cultivations into grain we might learn..:rolleyes:

Look the versa drill is a cultivation drill last time I checked, DD drills dont involve soil movement. Its a very very good machine but not as you describe a DD.

When you say you have blockage issues when direct drilling was it with the previous crops trash our poor soil conditions. I can see how you could get trash problems especially if you bale straw maybe a little more of an issue if straw is chopped. Pity straw burning isnt allowed anymore as it solved many of todays problems with all guises of establishment.

I dont understand when you say that your DD wasnt a disaster in yours 05,06,07 going by your financial accounts so why did you go back to the tried and tested? having less grain to sell if reduced yield from DD is often not a bad thing considering how much cheaper DD is compared to conventional, its your overall farm return thats the key.

Look whatever system suits each operation go for it, It works very well for me and looking forward to the removal of subs so we can really farm. (A Dream) as so much of the land is tied up in stupid schemes it irks me. I consider myself serious about it as I do enough acres to say it can work.

Tipp Man

Think there is a Direct Drilling open day in Wexford next week i believe for those that are interested