Isolation Switches for Dishwasher, Washing Machine, Tumble Dryer etc.

M cebee

2011 wrote: »

Such as what?
I can think of one or two obscure examples, but that is about it.


In a kitchen the appliances are typically:
Dishwasher
Fridge
Freezer
Microwave
Washing machine
Tumble Dryer

Why would someone want to switch off any of the above at an isolating switch?

To service/ maintain any of these devices they would have to be removed anyway, in which case they could simply be unplugged. If the exterior of any of these devices were to become live due to a fault and the protective devices failed it would be best to isolate at the distribution board, not the isolator anyway.

not really
for a start the rule covers more than inaccessible kitchen sockets
and also your example of a live appliance
-you would turn off the accessible DP switch

page 308
re kitchen switches
'this is to enable the immediate disconnection of the appliance in the case of an emergency'

2011

robbie7730 wrote: »

One advantage is it can help quickly identify a problem socket/appliance tripping an RCD because they isolate phase and neutral.

Is that the best you can come up with ? :D

Ok, I'll buy it. Once every 40 years it may help me to find out why the RCD is tripping and once very 20 years it causes my RCD to trip because the steam from my kettle is entering my DP switch that is above the countertop :D

2011

M cebee wrote: »

not really
for a start the rule covers more than inaccessible kitchen sockets

I know.

and also your example of a live appliance
-you would turn off the accessible DP switch

This will not necessarily make the appliance dead. It may be live because if is in contact with another device or circuit. Then the DP isolator may be deceptive to the end user.

page 308
re kitchen switches
'this is to enable the immediate disconnection of the appliance in the case of an emergency'

....which may or may not work, see above. Remember a kitchen should have at least 2 socket circuits and will generally have a cooker supply too. There are often copper pipes that my introduce a voltage from elsewhere. Always best to isolate at the board IMHO.

I am going off topic! I am not suggesting that the rules should not be obeyed, I am just trying to find a way of complying with them and accommodating the OP.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Is that the best you can come up with ? :D

Ok, I'll buy it. Once every 40 years it may help me to find out why the RCD is tripping and once very 20 years it causes my RCD to trip because the steam from my kettle is entering my DP switch that is above the countertop :D

Im getting old dont forget

2011

robbie7730 wrote: »

Im getting old dont forget

Did they have electricity when you were young ??

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Did they have electricity when you were young ??

I think working on it made me twice as old as I really am. All the shocks I think.

cast_iron

M cebee wrote: »

not really
for a start the rule covers more than inaccessible kitchen sockets

Apart from a flatscreen tv that happens to be mounted straight on the wall (I agree with your point above about it), there are not many. So if a sofa is to be placed in front a general socket that will supply a table lamp - isolator switch required?

and also your example of a live appliance
-you would turn off the accessible DP switch

page 308
re kitchen switches
'this is to enable the immediate disconnection of the appliance in the case of an emergency'

With the new rule putting the db at an accessible height, isolation from the board itself should be much easier than before. In any case, in such an emergency, it's quite likely the rcd will have tripped.

I'm all ears, but these rare occurances are not enough to convince me a house should have isolators all around the place.

Merch

There are switches that combine isolation switches into one unit, I have seen them in the UK, but not here.
They have named positions for each item, ie dishwasher, washing machine etc
Anyone know where they are available here/online?

It seems it would tidy up the mess of having DP isolators all over the place.

Does the same rational apply to fridges? not something you'd want to have switched off accidentally, but likely the socket could be inaccessible.

2011

Merch wrote: »

Does the same rational apply to fridges?

Yes.

not something you'd want to have switched off accidentally, but likely the socket could be inaccessible.

+1

If it is an integrated unit, which is all the rage now the chances are it will be very inaccessible.




Sure why not have clearly labeled switches at a single location that can isolated individual circuits and a single "main switch" at this location that can isolate everything?
This main switch could be designed to incorporate a fuse, 63A perhaps? .....Oh, er wait a minute :rolleyes:

Merch

2011 wrote: »

Sure why not have clearly labeled switches at a single location that can isolated individual circuits and a single "main switch" at this location that can isolate everything?
This main switch could be designed to incorporate a fuse, 63A perhaps? .....Oh, er wait a minute :rolleyes:

Ok, I see

I suppose it is open to interpretation then
But the only thing is if you wanted to isolate them individually and the wiring didnt allow that currently?
It is just that I've seen one in the UK that is located in the kitchen and has a number of switches on it labelled, I cant find one like it (searching online) just wondering if anyone here knew if they were available in Ireland or Online.

edit
like this
http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/neweys/pdf/literature/customer-guides/newlec-decorative-grid-and-av-modules.pdf

2011

Merch wrote: »

There are switches that combine isolation switches into one unit, I have seen them in the UK, but not here.
They have named positions for each item, ie dishwasher, washing machine etc
Anyone know where they are available here/online?

I think it is possible to make up a grid switch with 20A DP switches.

Merch

2011 wrote: »

I think it is possible to make up a grid switch with 20A DP switches.

Are these available? Its not something I have to do at the moment, when I was thinking of doing the kitchen I was looking for ways to not have a mess of switches on the wall and certainly not hidden at the back of cupboard.
I've read a few things and I can see, it could be difficult to manage a number of bundles of wiring together, I've seen it in the UK and I think it looks tidy, Ive never seen a gang of DP isolating switches here?

2011

Feast your eyes:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4896.html

.G.

Merch wrote: »

Ok, I see

I suppose it is open to interpretation then
But the only thing is if you wanted to isolate them individually and the wiring didnt allow that currently?
It is just that I've seen one in the UK that is located in the kitchen and has a number of switches on it labelled, I cant find one like it (searching online) just wondering if anyone here knew if they were available in Ireland or Online.

edit
like this
http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/neweys/pdf/literature/customer-guides/newlec-decorative-grid-and-av-modules.pdf

2011 wrote: »

I think it is possible to make up a grid switch with 20A DP switches.

We wired apartments in Santry in 07 with this sort of setup in the kitchen. It wasn't pre made but as 2011 says it was a grid of individual chrome DP switches and then a specially made and engraved face plate indicating which switch did what.We got them from a wholesaler based in Santry but any of them will sell grid switches.

It was pre the 4th edition though

2011

superg wrote: »

It was pre the 4th edition though

It seems like a viable option though.

M cebee

presumably these ganged isolators need to be 2m max from all appliances to comply in ireland?

is that still the rule here in the kitchen?