The WIP Fantasy Charter Discussion Thread

Spongey1975

poldebruin wrote: »

Fantastic that FF will be getting it's own sub-forum, well done to all who campaigned for it.

A couple of points (which we experienced first hand in Division 2 last year) I would like considered for the rules charter going forward would be:

* The option of the league voting on trades. For the most part I see trades come and go and there is no problem, but there have been some real head-scratchers. It would also mean we could stop any abuse of the system.

* Consensus on what to do when a team is abandoned mid-season. Does the GM take over and put what he considers the strongest team out for the remainder? Swapping out bye week and injured players but staying away from the waiver wire and transfers?

* Lastly (and I know this seems a bit miserable and paranoid - but again, we did experience it) what happens when a player dumps his team of starters back into the waiver pool - last year the GM/league of Div2 voted that nobody would try to acquire the players, they were put back into the team and the manager in question was locked out of his team for the remainder of the season.

All a bit specific,I know, but if we're going to lay out the rules and sticky them, why not try to cover all bases?

This is where the GM comes into play, first off i think trades are voted on before they are approved, there is options to change settings as to how trades are approved but i think members can vote them down if necessary

The second two points are very valid and very important. If a team is abandoned then i would like to think that the GM would take it over and primarily ensure that a proper team is put out. I fully believe that all GMs (who should be selected by the relevant members of each division) would put the strongest team forward no matter who they were against. As for the placing of players on waiver wire, i know what happened last year and whilst it was frustrating, i believe it is extreme in that i cant see it happening at all amongst genuine players. However in this scenario i woul like to see the team pass over to the GM to operate for the rest of the season.

This all leaves the selection of the GM for each division as a very important undertaking and clear rules to be in place for next season. GMs should have the best interest of the league in their minds as opposed to their own teams (speaking as a GM of Div 1 )

davetherave

I'm probably just repeating what has already been said but I guess another voice can't hurt.

Aside from the general "Don't be a d!ck" and "Play nice" rules from the AF/Sitewide charters.

Preseason:
1) A "Declare your interest" thread named something along the lines of "**SIGNUP HERE BEFORE 31/JULY/2012*** with plenty of capitals and exclamation marks. Returning users are just reactivating themselves, for want of a better word, and new users are placed in the next available division. Possibly also show the list of users per division with the promotions/relegations?
2) A screenshot or a listing/guide of the standard league rules that are to be adhered to in each league.
3) I agree with the general consensus that the draft should be some time between the end of the 4th pre-season and the Thursday Night Opener


Regular Season
1) Each division will/should/could have it's own thread for the internal stuff.
2) There should be a "week X" thread for advice/selections/matchups etc. This is to be used by all divisions. There will be two thread per week. (NFL-Week 3) (NCAA-Week
3)

Post Season:
1) Update the list of Winners thread
2) Return the the pre-season section and repeat as necessary.


Regarding GM's, I think the fairest way to decide is a vote by the people participating in the league. Maybe only vote for people that nominate themselves though.

If a person abandons their team then the GM just takes over and uses their subs bench for bye weeks, no trades/free agents allowed. That way then the people that still have to play him don't get "easy points" as opposed to the people who have already played him proper. That person goes to the back of the signup queue next season.

Inactivity is a tough one. The way I see it there are three scenarios:
1. Inactive on the forums, active on league. Someone could be inactive on the forum, but if they at least sub out a player on his bye week or pick up a free agent or do something to show that he/she is active then I don't think that there is anything you can or need to do.
2. Active on the forums, inactive on the league. If someone hasn't logged on since the draft (if even), but they are seen posting either on the AF board, or elsewhere then maybe just send them a PM asking if they are still interested/playing or if the GM can take over??
3. Person disappears off the face of the earth. Come to the conclusion that they have been abducted by aliens and the GM takes over? (after a vote?)

johnmcdnl

Just a simple point - if the GM was to take over a team well who's the strongest team to send out???

I'm assuming just go by the NFL projections and stick with that so the GM isn't able to really have much of an input but just makes sure some lad on IR or on a Bye week isn't starting....

means the GM doesn't have to invest any time bar putting the players on the field for the game... also prevents any claims that made me made about a game as to why X player started ahead of Y player in such a game but it was the other way around in some other game... straight forward call for the GM and can be a standard call for all divisions...

also - if a team has a say a QB playing Monday but has a backup playing Sunday if the Monday QB is questionable or worse the backup should be made start to prevent the possibility of a non starter which could easily swing a game especially if it's a major position like RB or QB...

just 2 rules there just to make try to make sure there's a standard procedure for the GM to follow in the event of a team being left inactive mid season...


also there's hardly a way to boot a team from a league at the end of the season to prevent the possibility of an inactive team from making the playoffs... just seems kinda unfair that some player that played hard all season but missed out in the end had a place in the playoffs taken because of an inactive team that just happened to get lucky with injuries and the likes all season... if it can't be done fair enough - but I really just hope that any inactive teams would end up loosing before the end of the season but naturally it's not going to happen every time...

and naturally enough the given player would be dropped to the lowest possible division for the next season and would need to give some assurances that they will be active for the next season...

I know there are exceptions where some people may have had a genuine reason and perhaps in these cases some form of vote could take place between either the remaining members of the division or by the GMs amongst themselves... preferably by the GM's because other players in the division may have bitter feelings after a 0.2 point loss or simply because they became inactive straight after they had played them etc etc... the standard rule should be that you get relegated to the bottom but in very certain circumstances the GM's and other members may think it was enough of a reason to give them another shot... I'm just thinking here about perhaps someone in the military getting called up for a few weeks service with very short notice... who knows but it would need to be a damn good excuse but I'm sure their is the possibility of it happening - just perhaps needs to be taken into account - either that or a standard rule that means regardless of who you are you accept that if you are inactive for a set length of time you get relegated the next week...

perhaps 2-3 weeks inactivity would be enough before the rules and take over of the team would happen... but once again the rules need to be set before hand... perhaps 2 game weeks of inactivity and if they remain inactive by the Saturday evening or Sunday midnight Irish time the GM should take the team over to prevent a 3rd week of inactivity

this could even be knocked down to 1 week inactivity where the GM can jump in and replace any players in the 2nd week who are on Bye Weeks or on IR if necceasry but leave all other players untouched for the week but come week 3 the GM assumes complete control of the team... (this assuming a GM can make changes but still allowing the original owner to take over)

anyways - that's what I'd like to see but if there's a problem with it please point it out and why it wouldn't work so we can change it

just trying to make a standard set of rules is all so there can be no giving out about why someones team was taken over right before I had to play the inactive guy but the last guy had a game against a team of injured and benched players... just to avoid any possibility of arguments the rules for when to take over need to be set in stone

poldebruin

...this is getting as complicated as defining what a catch is in the NFL!!
Has to be done though.

D3PO

My 2 cents most of which has already been mentioned

• Charter should include the generic boards stuff. Place nice, no spam, and so on so forth.

• The charter should spell out the rules we go by in boards fantasy football.

• The charter should define how a GM is selected. I would suggest that this would be defined as current GM stays on unless a league member proposes his removal and that is carried by at least 3 other league members. Upon which time any body interested in taking over would put their hat in the ring and a vote would take place between the 16 league members to select the new GM from the candidates that put themselves forward

• The charter should define the exact setting that must be applied in the boards fantasy football leagues

• League specific rules should be clearly mentioned in the charter

• There needs definition of inactivity. And the consequences of a member being inactive. Inactive for 1 season relegated to bottom division. Inactive for two straight seasons banned from entering into the boards fantasy football league structure.

• Promotion / Relegation. The rules on this need to be clearly defined in the charter. (My view on it is below)

The number of teams that are promoted and relegated each season should be advised in the charter. (I think its 4 up 4 down)

The 4 teams promoted are those that make the semi of the playoffs.
If one of these wont be active the following season then the side that finished 5th (by virtue of having a higher points score in the first round of the playoffs should go up as we have 6 team playoffs.
If they are not available then the other sie making the playoffs goes up.
If they are not available then it goes by seasn win loss records and if equal then the cumulative points totals the remaining teams finished with.
Regarding relegation

The 4 teams going down will begin with any inactive teams
If more than 4 teams were inactive then additional promotion spots will be provided and all the inactive teams will be relegated to the bottom division
Inactivity should be clearly defined in the rules

• How an inactive team works should be defined aswell My take on it is that if a team goes inactive (as defined by what is agreed as inactivity) then the GM should manage this team by putting the best team out weekly based on NFL.com projections. I suggest this so as to make it fair to those who had to play against this team when it was competing so everybody should essentialyl be treated fairly.

• To make this fair I think you need to go further and add that if the GM has to make a change to the team due to bye weeks to ensure every team plays a side with a full active side he should take the best projected score from NFL.com from the free agency market to to that. so for example if the inactive team has Dallas DEF who are on a bye then the GM should bring in the best projected FA defense in its place lets use Tampa for example. It should be agreed however that none of the other users can pickup Dallas off the waivers and following that week the GM should revert to the original selection by swapping Dallas back in and dropping Tampa.

• Not mentioned but it should obviously state that anybody found to have 2 teams in the boards league structure wil be automatically banned from being in the league
• The should be a procedure in place should a team attempt to sabotage the league by emptying their team roster onto the market. How it was dealt with in D2 last season should be the blueprint. i.e the league GM manually overrides any changes to the rosters puts the players back on the team and locks the sabotaging owner from accessing the team. This team will then be treated as inactive.
• There should be a Division thread for each season These threads should only list the exact rosters of each team and should be updated weekly and should also list all the results of games. The reason for this is should a GM decide to sabotage things by deleting a league a new one could be setup and rosters etc set to negate the malicious actions.

I think this is the most important thing not listed in this thread so far

• I also think the charter should clearly state when the legue drafts will take place. I would agree that mentioning all drafts will beging between end of preseason and x number of days before the league kickoff would be the best way to go.

Benimar

An issue that came to light in Division 5 this week which I feel should be included.

One player placed Arian Foster on waivers and later claimed he did not mean to do this. Now, I'm not here to question what went on, but he did ask that no one pick Foster up off Waivers.

This was backed up by an email from the GM asking us not to pick up Foster.

I had a claim in for him, which had I left in, would have got me the player. I decided to follow the request of the GM, but clearly another player did not and now has Foster.

I know a lot of people may feel Foster was fair game (me included), but I think there should be some sort of rule in place - preferably that if you place a player on Waivers (accidental or not) you have no right to get him back.

tallaghtoutlaws

Benimar wrote: »

An issue that came to light in Division 5 this week which I feel should be included.

One player placed Arian Foster on waivers and later claimed he did not mean to do this. Now, I'm not here to question what went on, but he did ask that no one pick Foster up off Waivers.

This was backed up by an email from the GM asking us not to pick up Foster.

I had a claim in for him, which had I left in, would have got me the player. I decided to follow the request of the GM, but clearly another player did not and now has Foster.

GM shouldn't have said anything. You release a player tough sh1t in my eyes. IT asks you to confirm the drop before doing so.

I know a lot of people may feel Foster was fair game (me included), but I think there should be some sort of rule in place - preferably that if you place a player on Waivers (accidental or not) you have no right to get him back.

I would agree. Foster should now be with the team who had the highest waiver spot that put in for him.

Peyton Manning

Agree, there are far too many "Are you sure you want to...?" confirmation screens for any sympathy to be allowed. Should have been fair game, and the GM shouldn't have asked people to withdraw their claims. That was a silly imo.

Spongey1975

If a top player is dropped by a team by accident then it should be fair game and go to the top waiver request. Its a harsh reality for the player doing the dropping that he will not make the same mistake again. It also sends a dangerous precedent for people having second thoughts about dropping a player knowing that they can get him back by pleading accident

D3PO

Spongey1975 wrote: »

If a top player is dropped by a team by accident then it should be fair game and go to the top waiver request. Its a harsh reality for the player doing the dropping that he will not make the same mistake again. It also sends a dangerous precedent for people having second thoughts about dropping a player knowing that they can get him back by pleading accident

well this brings up another point. Top players shouldnt be possible to be dropped they should be categorised as undroppable.

if a player is not undroppable and hes dropped its fair game tough luck. We dont cater for stupidity in the leagues.

The boards ff league should have a uniform list of undroppable players across all divisions agreed pre season.

a player should only move off the undroppable list if he goes on IR or cannot player for at least 3 weeks in a row.

Peyton Manning

D3PO wrote: »

a player should only move off the undroppable list if he goes on IR or cannot player for at least 3 weeks in a row.

NFL.com already does that. Arian Foster was undroppable, but his limited participation in the first 3 weeks removed him from that list.

D3PO

Tom_Brady wrote: »

NFL.com already does that. Arian Foster was undroppable, but his limited participation in the first 3 weeks removed him from that list.

ok cool I thought that was manually configured by the GM's. In that case the situation in Div 5 is a joke.

If somebody is dropped hes fair game end of story. No GM should intervene in the waiver process or attempt to intervene in anyway.

GoldFour4

For the first bye week GM should send a pm to any players who may have forgotten about it. Just for the first week. No excuses after that. Have sent PM`s to a number of players in Division 2 but will not be doing so next week or any other week.

D3PO

malachyscott wrote: »

For the first bye week GM should send a pm to any players who may have forgotten about it. Just for the first week. No excuses after that. Have sent PM`s to a number of players in Division 2 but will not be doing so next week or any other week.

I dont agree. You either actively manage your tema or your dont. If you dont you dont get to play in the boards leagues moving forward.

All this nonsense with GM's babysitting players be it becasue they dropped a player by accident or forgot to bench a guy on a bye are insane.

your only one step short of saying GM's should provide lineup advice. This stuff is not a GM's job and shouldnt be part of any agreed charter.

Dodge

Agree 100% with D3PO

Up to players to manage their own teams. Forget about bye weeks? can't get to change your team? going on holidays? Tough

Frisbee

Does anyone know exactly how many leagues we have active?

I know for certain we have:

Boards Div 1 - 5
Keeper league
NCAA Fantasy League
PPR League

I'm just trying to get a bit of structure sorted into the Fantasy football Sub-forum so once we have a charter and definitive set of rules nailed down we can open her up straight away.

If I've missed any, which I'm sure I have, can you PM them to me or just post them up here?

Cheers

Peyton Manning

There's also the College Fantasy Football league, and I think there's a PPR league. That would be it for official Boards forum leagues.

Frisbee

Ok I've lashed together a very rough draft having flicked through the thread and taking out some of the main points. Tear it apart as you will and let me know what needs to go in or come out.

Cheers

---

ALL BOARDS FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUES WILL BE PLAYED ON NFL.com

1. Each League will have it's own specific thread that will be started by a Moderator at the start of July each year.

2. As well as this there will be a 'Sign Up' thread opened at the same time each year so that those who didn't participate the previous season have a chance to play in the coming season. All new players MUST register their interest no later than July 31st each year in order to be considered for a position in a league this year.

3. Each Gameweek will also have it's own thread that will be used for all divisions. This will be for general queries such as: “Who should I start this week; Garcon @ Oakland or Rice @ Cleveland?

4. Any players who go inactive for more than 3 weeks during the season will be disqualified from entering for the next season. (Within reason, if someone goes on holiday for three weeks that's fine as long as they mention it before they do.)

5. All League General Managers will have to be re-elected by those in their league for the next year.

6. ALL Boards League drafts MUST be held between the end of the final pre-season game and the Thursday night season opener.

7. ALL Boards Leagues MUST play by the same set of League settings to avoid any confusion. League settings will be attached in a seperate post as well as in the opening post of each individual league thread.

Settings below:



8. If a team is abandoned mid-season then the GM of the league will take control of that team. They will select the team each week purely going by NFL.com's 'Projected Points'. That team will not be allowed to take part in any trades, pick anyone up off waivers or drop players.

9. Promotion and relegation will take place via a '4 up 4 down' system. The 4 teams that make the playoffs in a League will be promoted to the league above the next season. The 4 teams with the worse records in the league will be relegated to the next division down for the next season.

10. Anyone who sets out to deliberately mess up a league by signing up and dropping all their players after drafting or offering very obviously one sided trades to make another team too strong will be banned from both the Fantasy Football Forum and the American Football forum as a whole permanently.

Spongey1975

Frisbee wrote: »

Does anyone know exactly how many leagues we have active?

I know for certain we have:

Boards Div 1 - 5
Keeper league
NCAA Fantasy League
PPR League

I'm just trying to get a bit of structure sorted into the Fantasy football Sub-forum so once we have a charter and definitive set of rules nailed down we can open her up straight away.

If I've missed any, which I'm sure I have, can you PM them to me or just post them up here?

Cheers

There is also the Late to the Party league and the Paddy Patriots league (although i'm not sure if thats run through here or just has members here in it)

adrian522

Frisbee wrote: »

ALL BOARDS FANTASY FOOTBALL LEAGUES WILL BE PLAYED ON NFL.com

Thanks for this!!

The PPR league is on ESPN and the college football league is on CBS. The masin leagues (prem, div 1, div 2 etc) are all on NFL.com

Dodge

adrian522 wrote: »

Thanks for this!!

The PPR league is on ESPN and the college football league is on CBS. The masin leagues (prem, div 1, div 2 etc) are all on NFL.com

Just to be clear, one of the reasons for doing this is that nfl.com has a limit of 3 on how many free games someone can join. I'm already in 3 nfl.com leagues so if the PPR was there, I'd have been blanked

GoldFour4

Dodge wrote: »

Just to be clear, one of the reasons for doing this is that nfl.com has a limit of 3 on how many free games someone can join. I'm already in 3 nfl.com leagues so if the PPR was there, I'd have been blanked

I dont know why my account is different. I have 4 leagues on nfl.com and was in 5 previously.

Peyton Manning

Dodge wrote: »

Just to be clear, one of the reasons for doing this is that nfl.com has a limit of 3 on how many free games someone can join. I'm already in 3 nfl.com leagues so if the PPR was there, I'd have been blanked

Just so you know, you can join more than 3 leagues. I'm in 4 at the moment.

However I don't think additional leagues such as PPR should be restricted to NFL.com anyway. Only the main leagues which all need to follow the same format (Prem - Div 5) should.

tallaghtoutlaws

Cam Newton wrote: »

Just so you know, you can join more than 3 leagues. I'm in 4 at the moment.

Im in 5 on one of my NFL.com accounts so as CM said doesn't seem to be a restriction.

However I don't think additional leagues such as PPR should be restricted to NFL.com anyway. Only the main leagues which all need to follow the same format (Prem - Div 5) should.

Agreed. Some leagues are best suited to other formats than NFL.com

Frisbee

adrian522 wrote: »

Thanks for this!!

The PPR league is on ESPN and the college football league is on CBS. The masin leagues (prem, div 1, div 2 etc) are all on NFL.com

Apologies. Not in the PPR league so didn't know it wasn't NFL.

I knew the College one wasn't NFL and meant to state that was ok but didn't.

Essentially I meant to say the main Boards Divisions i.e. Prem, Div1, Div 2 etc. must be NFL.com.


Anything else that needs to be taken in or out?

Also apologies if my replies etc take a while to go up. Still living out of hostels atm so my net access is pretty intermittent.

D3PO

charter start looks good frisbiee

re relegation promotion though

6 teams make the playoffs so need to spell out promotion for the 4 that make the semis

re relegation should read any inactive players removed followed by those with the worst record to total 4 teams.

Peyton Manning

D3PO wrote: »

re relegation should read any inactive players removed followed by those with the worst record to total 4 teams.

I'm not sure about this, I don't think it's fair to those in the lower leagues to have the league above them's inactive cast offs dumped upon them.

SSK

IMO if you are inactive during a season, without any legitimate reason/notice then you should be removed from the leagues completely and start at the bottom like a new player. Relegation should then be the number of active players with the worst record required to bring the total number removed from the league to 4 with the 4 best teams being promoted up. I think thats what D3PO was getting at.

Peyton Manning

SSK wrote: »

IMO if you are inactive during a season, without any legitimate reason/notice then you should be removed from the leagues completely and start at the bottom like a new player. Relegation should then be the number of active players with the worst record required to bring the total number removed from the league to 4 with the 4 best teams being promoted up. I think thats what D3PO was getting at.

Ah, just re-read and it does seem like thats what he means. Never mind, nothing to see here, move along

Frisbee

Yeah of the 6 teams that make the playoff's it will be the last four in that get promoted.

So then we'd have the 4 worst active players relegated. And any inactive players relegated also? I'd be more a fan of having any inactive players relegated and disallowed from competing the next season.