Gaddafi dead.

davoxx

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Here you go.

try again, looking for deaths before they were invaded, not afterwards ...

remember looking for justification, not results ... unless they went in their with a hunch ....

Batsy

pablomakaveli wrote: »

There was some footage on Al-Jazeera posted on YouTube but the camera was very shaky and it was very difficult to tell if it was him or not.

It was NOT difficult to tell whether or not it was him. It is very clear in the footage that the bloodied corpse is that of Daffy.

jmayo

davoxx wrote: »

but i guess you are the kinda guy that likes people dead rather on trial for supposed crimes ...

What type of proof do you require for supposed crimes to be actual crimes ?
The guys in Langley might want to know.

davoxx wrote: »

yeah why would they want nukes? i mean what country wants nukes? unless there was another terrorist country in the area with nukes ...

Lets see Israel has nukes, but I don't think I have ever heard them say they want to drive Iran, Saudi, etc into the sea.
On the other hand Iran have said they want to drive Israel into the sea and help sponsor terrorist organisations.
They issue fatwas demanding the death of people who they claim have insulted their religion.

So far I don't remember the Israelis issuing death sentences on people who make jokes about Jesus or any of their other prophets.

So yeah must of us don't fancy the Iranians having nukes.

davoxx wrote: »

it takes just two people to form a conspiracy ...

Don't look at me

davoxx wrote: »

...
very good, ffs, they were selling their oil, ffs, then nato invaded them, ffs, now they have a puppet government that was not elected, ffs, who will decide who gets the oil contracts, ffs, and the people in the country will not get their share of wealth, ffs, just like iraq, ffs.

seriously, try reading up on a topic before you make a post, ffs, it makes you look really silly, ffs.

Have you got some type of tourette typing syndrome going on ?

BTW Nato did not really invade Libya, unless you count airspace.

pablomakaveli wrote: »

There's probably a good chance he was killed by an over zealous soldier rather than being executed due to an official order from the government.

It is very hard to control a non professional army which is probably largely made up of people who have major axes to grind with the other side.

TeddyTedson

The idiots had to kill him didn't they.

Rookster

Well I presume the Yanks and Brits wanted him dead in case he'd reveal all their dirty secrets.

InTheTrees

Dotsey wrote: »

Anyway looking at the pictures of his body being dragged through the streets, it doesn't seem right for a council seeking to be a legitimate government to capture then execute a former leader then treat his body in this manner. Surely they rose up against Gaddafi because they wanted to be different but instead they have shown that they're exactly the same as him. Yet so far no international country has condemned the treatment of his body and execution without trial.

You really think they're exactly the same as him? Seriously?

You honestly think anyone is going to condemm the rebels?

History is littered with the public "disposal" of tyrants by their rebellious enraged former victims. Its simple blood thirsty revenge and it certainly doesnt make them "exactly the same" as their former oppressor.

That kind of talk is the the rhetoric of the bully and the tyrant. I'm sure Kim jung Ill in North Korea is also calling for condemnation of the deplorable treatment of ol'Moe.

Mussolini hung from a lamp post. That romanian dictator too. Its really not uncommon for these types of people to end up being brutally disposed of.

InTheTrees

If I kill the murderer of my family and neighbours, it does not make me the same as the murderer.

Is that a difficult concept to grasp really?

nacho libre

Jonny7 wrote: »

How are the Libyan people going to be worse off than under a dictator/police state?

if it's a case of meet the new regime- meet the old regime. we've seen example of this happening in other countries- the west replacing one unsavoury regime with great expectation only for an equally as bad one to take its place. now obviously you'll be keen to suggest this won't be the case in Libya, but the fact of the matter is none of us know. what we do know there are competing ideologies at play within the rebel movement as to the direction Libya takes.

LordSutch

Dotsey wrote: »

You're confusing Sinn Fein with the IRA, the IRA didn't support Gaddafi they took advantage of his feud with the British to obtain weapons to fight a war.

You are kidding, right ? surely you are aware of the current debate re Mr McGuinness, (did he leave the PIRA in 74') or did he stay right up till 94'? was Adams even in the PIRA, was Martin Ferris in the PIRA? - so many PIRA/Sinn Fein interconnected stories, so many deep connections, with most people agreeing that the PIRA & Sinn Fein were two sides of the same coin, who were supplied by Gadaffi! and yet you print that :rolleyes:)

Gadaffi was (in the 80s) a keen supplier of Semtex, Mortars, and AK47s to the PIRA, and many innocent people on this island died as a result of Gadaffi's supplies.

TeddyTedson

Rookster wrote: »

Well I presume the Yanks and Brits wanted him dead in case he'd reveal all their dirty secrets.

They had been trying to air strike him to stop anything coming out.

InTheTrees wrote: »

If I kill the murderer of my family and neighbours, it does not make me the same as the murderer.

Is that a difficult concept to grasp really?

It makes you a murderer

Jonny7

davoxx wrote: »

really .. which mandate and what did it say?

and why did the un not get involved?

Here is the resolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1973
(violence started about mid-Feb, with resolution being voted through just after mid-March)

How can you comment on this situation and have no idea about these things?

Jonny7

TeddyTedson wrote: »

They had been trying to air strike him to stop anything coming out.

What are you talking about? he and especially his son Saif have had ample access to the media for months after subsequent UN/NATO action.

Its pretty open what went on with Western (and World) governments and Gaddafi in the recent past, esp. in 2005 when he cosied up to Bush and Blair in return for dropping his supposed WMD program.

HRW have uncovered further evidence and documents in Tripoli, which are currently being used in one investigation at least.

Hannibal

LordSutch wrote: »

You are kidding, right ? surely you are aware of the current debate re Mr McGuinness, (did he leave the PIRA in 74') or did he stay right up till 94'? was Adams even in the PIRA, was Martin Ferris in the PIRA? - so many PIRA/Sinn Fein interconnected stories, so many deep connections, with most people agreeing that the PIRA & Sinn Fein were two sides of the same coin, who were supplied by Gadaffi! and yet you print that :rolleyes:)

Gadaffi was (in the 80s) a keen supplier of Semtex, Mortars, and AK47s to the PIRA, and many innocent people on this island died as a result of Gadaffi's supplies.

Gaddafi supplied the IRA but that's not to say the IRA supported him in any way. They were fighting a war and he was throwing weapons at them which they accepted, it doesn't mean the IRA supported Gaddafi.

You say two sides of the same coin, I personally know many ex-IRA members who never joined or supported Sinn Féin and walked away after the GFA and decommissioning. I equally know many Sinn Féin members who were never in or connected with the IRA in any way, most people who know their history and in the most recent phase of the Troubles can accept that the IRA didn't fire the first shot or kill the first person. As a result of the treatment and brutality by the British state and their forces many people were left with little choice but to take up arms against them, simple as that. The IRA left the stage in 2005 and before that was on ceasefire since 1997 yet some people still have an obsession about every Sinn Fein politician's involvement or alleged involvement by the gutter press. It's time to move on and focus on the matters at hand rather than 30 or 40 years ago.

McGuinness said he left the IRA in 1974 and there's no credible source or single shred of proof except from political rivals trying to point score or opponents of the GFA who say he was a member after that date.

Adams is similar to McGuinness except he denies ever being in the IRA, until there's proof you have to accept their word.

Martin Ferris was in the IRA and he never hid that fact.

Michael McDowell and the Irish Independent named Adams, Ferris and McGuinness as members of the IRA army council in 2005 without using any proof. McDowell and the Indo are hardly the most credible of sources, I wouldn't trust either to tell me the time of day.

InTheTrees wrote: »

You really think they're exactly the same as him? Seriously?

You honestly think anyone is going to condemm the rebels?

History is littered with the public "disposal" of tyrants by their rebellious enraged former victims. Its simple blood thirsty revenge and it certainly doesnt make them "exactly the same" as their former oppressor.

That kind of talk is the the rhetoric of the bully and the tyrant. I'm sure Kim jung Ill in North Korea is also calling for condemnation of the deplorable treatment of ol'Moe.

Mussolini hung from a lamp post. That romanian dictator too. Its really not uncommon for these types of people to end up being brutally disposed of.

Libya is a complex country divided by tribal loyalties etc so it's hard to see it staying united like Romania or Italy.

Whether they're as bad as him will remain to be seen, but amogst the NTC soldiers there is a severe lack of discipline and many seem trigger happy. It will be interesting to see how Libya unfolds now and if there will be a power struggle to see who can come out on top. There's also at present no national army in Libya and there's no shortage of weapons on the streets and amongst the people who could create a volatile atmosphere

dlofnep

LordSutch wrote: »

I guess today is a sad day for the Shinners, no doubt we will never get to hear about the letter of condolence from Sinn Fein to Gadaffi's son 'Saif al-Islam', But considering the strong links between Sinn Fein & Gadaffi (cheap semtex, Mortars & AK47s) there must be some serious grieving today at Sinn Fein HQ, and indeed at Martins house

Who armed Gaddafi? It wasn't Sinn Féin. So if you want to discuss who provided weapons to who - don't be selective about it.

TeddyTedson

Jonny7 wrote: »

What are you talking about? he and especially his son Saif have had ample access to the media for months after subsequent UN/NATO action.

Its pretty open what went on with Western (and World) governments and Gaddafi in the recent past, esp. in 2005 when he cosied up to Bush and Blair in return for dropping his supposed WMD program.

HRW have uncovered further evidence and documents in Tripoli, which are currently being used in one investigation at least.

He hadn't been tried in court though. I doubt they would have wanted this.

user2011

Who was the rat in end?

Jonny7

TeddyTedson wrote: »

He hadn't been tried in court though. I doubt they would have wanted this.

Yes but some people almost act like Bush and Blair are still in power and controlling NATO.

There was an incident where by one of the Gaddafi compounds was hit, and there were casualties, but to say that NATO were somehow directly trying to assassinate the man is a bit over the top.

I would've liked to have seen him brought to trial.

ikeano29

Obvious from the videos he was'nt shot dead but rather beaten to death on the streets.

BlaasForRafa

:rolleyes: x 1 million ... simples.

what are reverse-vampires? are you one?

If you don't get an elementary simpsons reference then I'm guessing you are about 15 years old. Your posting style would further indicate this.

very good, ffs, they were selling their oil, ffs, then nato invaded them, ffs, now they have a puppet government that was not elected, ffs, who will decide who gets the oil contracts, ffs, and the people in the country will not get their share of wealth, ffs, just like iraq, ffs.

seriously, try reading up on a topic before you make a post, ffs, it makes you look really silly, ffs.

Stop embarrasing yourself. The NTC isn't elected...and Gaddafi was? .....you know, the dictator that was just killed? And you think that the people of Libya were getting their share of the wealth from (the tyrant) Gaddafi?

InTheTrees

TeddyTedson wrote: »

It makes you a murderer

Is it murder if its self defense?

Pand

InTheTrees wrote: »

Is it murder if its self defense?

If you believe you or your family are in immediate danger of lethal force then no, if you seek out someone with the express intent to kill them when they are unarmed in an act of summary justice then yes, it is murder.

Son Of A Vidic

LordSutch wrote: »

I guess today is a sad day for the Shinners, no doubt we will never get to hear about the letter of condolence from Sinn Fein to Gadaffi's son 'Saif al-Islam', But considering the strong links between Sinn Fein & Gadaffi (cheap semtex, Mortars & AK47s) there must be some serious grieving today at Sinn Fein HQ, and indeed at Martins house

Why would it be a sad day for them? The armed struggle is long over and Gaddafi is no longer relevant to them. At times like this you just wish some people could climb into a time machine and travel to 2011, instead of persistently living in the past.

andyjo

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Gaddafi is no longer relevant to them.

By supplying semtex and serious amounts of weaponry , and other co-operation, he was a great and generous friend to Sinn Fein / PIRA a few decades ago. Nobody else in the world helped the PIRA as much, so yes, LS is correct, " there must be some serious grieving today at Sinn Fein HQ, and indeed at Martins house ".

steelcityblues

Miriam O'Callaghan was absolutely pathetic on Prime Time giving the 'ordinary citizen' an easy ride, as if utopia was created today.

Min

I felt David Cameron looked like a hypocrite saying Gaddafi gave the IRA semtex to murder people, while true, he is never going to admit that elements of the British state gave seized IRA explosives to Loyalists to kill people in this country, something an independent inquiry said happened.

AlekSmart

I can't say todays images from Sirte come as a surprise to me.

However I see it as the final act in,what I believe,was a highly orchestrated campaign to depose the single African leader who was far too advanced with plans to take Libya and the greater continent of Africa out of it's current indeptedness to the Western First World.

Col Gadaffi had managed to keep Libya on somewhat too unique a heading for the comfort of our leaders.

His oft stated desire to forge a Pan-African power focus was edging ever closer to fruition with the ever present threat that HE would end up at the helm of a far bigger chunk of African real-estate than would be considered comfortable.

I believe that history will deliver a far fairer judgement on Gadaffi's rule in Libya than is possible at present,for I remain of the opinion that Gadaffi had Libya and it's people as his foremost interest.

I think it is indeed telling that he remained in his country right to the end in spite of having had 10 months to run away.

For me it is somewhat creepy to watch and listen to the dapper David Cameron attempting gravitas outside number 10 as indeed it is to take M.Sarkozy at any deeper level as they strive to refrain from a big collective Yahoo! as they watch the execution of the Colonel.

No doubt the various interested agencies will now ensure a steady flow of evil-Gadaffi accounts and perhaps even finally produce some hard evidence of his mass-murdering across Libya.

It's equally interesting that initial attributing of his death to a French Air attack on his convoy has been considerably played down in the hours since,as perhaps it finally occurs to some U.N./NATO PR person that a resolution empowering direct action to "prevent atrocities against civilian populations" is not the same as "actively progressing regime change".

I would also suggest that a significant number of Libyans have seen their preferred leader executed by a para-military grouping apparently devoid of cohesive discipline or leadership.

These Libyan's,and I believe they constitute a significant element of the country's population,are now in a highly volatile and angry state,a fact which may well come to play upon the minds of Sarkozy,Blair and Berlusconi,three individuals whom I would suggest don't exactly stand head and shoulders above Gadaffi in terms of committment to their principles.

Gadaffi's grisly end was,I believe,made inevitable by his lack of wiser counsel and his oft-stated intention to stay in "his" country to the death.

Had he taken saner advice and fled the chaos to have his day in the courts,I believe he would have given the somewhat tainted western leaderships a run for their money.....now that is all hypothetical,as we can be assured that no unsavory details will emerge in any open court to embarrass or politically damage our brave troika of standard bearers for freedom etc.

It has turned out to be a "good campaign" for the fresh new U.N./Nato desire to protect and empower revolutionary movements.
However,equally,Libya and Gadaffi's death will now place this policy under renewed pressure to redeploy and assist in a clean-sweep of unsavory despotic leaders across the world...

In the meantime we can now only watch and hope that some Libyan patriot will emerge from the wreckage of what once was a functioning African country in order to re-forge some form of vision for it....we may have a long wait however

Boskowski

jmayo wrote: »

On the other hand Iran have said they want to drive Israel into the sea and help sponsor terrorist organisations..

only they haven't.

Sorry for barging in on this off-topic, just one of my pet hates.

Back to on-topic.
A lot of what's been saud about Gaddafi here is complete drivel.
Happens when people just keep parroting SjyNews etc. Which is the connection with the off-topic comment.

Fact is Lybian people are one of the wealthiest in Africa with a good, free health system that makes them the healthiest people in Africa and yes they are also the moat educated which comes from their excellent free education system.

Sure he was a tyrant and sure has blood on his fingers but who doesn't? Does Tony Blair not? And what do we do with him? Yes, we buy his book and incite him to lecture us for god knows how much per night.
Point being Gaddafi wasn't the worst by any measure. I always had a sift spot for him tbh.

RIP Colonel

steelcityblues

Boskowski,

Well said. Anyone who thinks any of those on the world political stage are 'heroes', needs to investigate further.

meditraitor

I feel very uncomfortable about the whole gaddhafi situation, looking at the body and scenes of celebration made me sick to the stomach

davoxx

as Daithi 1 pointed out in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74114627 there are facts that people seem to be confused on.

MysticalRain

meditraitor wrote: »

I feel very uncomfortable about the whole gaddhafi situation, looking at the body and scenes of celebration made me sick to the stomach

I feel distinctly uncomfortable reading a thread where people are eulogising a murderous dictator.

lastlaugh

Just saw the video of him on death's door with people jumping around him in celebration.
Not a nice way to go, I kind of feel sorry for him.

davoxx

Jonny7 wrote: »

Here is the resolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1973
(violence started about mid-Feb, with resolution being voted through just after mid-March)

How can you comment on this situation and have no idea about these things?

i missed that un resolution, my bad, these things happen.

but what i meant was no un resolution for going in and forcing regime change. this is not covered by the resolution 1973 either.

quote:

On the face of it, the arms embargo imposed by paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 would prevent arms being supplied to anyone in Libya. However, the resolution qualifies resolution 1970 with the wording "all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970" if the in so doing it would protect civilians. Hillary Clinton has argued that, though arming anti Gaddafi forces was not being proposed at present, it would be legal to do so.[5]

resolution 1973 is about protecting civilians, but nato aided only one side, so by my understanding they did not have an un resolution to do what they did. i hope that clarifies what i meant.

andyjo

MysticalRain wrote: »

I feel distinctly uncomfortable reading a thread where people are eulogising a murderous dictator.

especially one whose semtex and armalites killed and maimed thousands on this little island and elsewhere...men, women and children.

meditraitor

MysticalRain wrote: »

I feel distinctly uncomfortable reading a thread where people are eulogising a murderous dictator.

any normal person would stop reading, but then again your probably lying and just looking for a rise

andyjo

lastlaugh wrote: »

Not a nice way to go, I kind of feel sorry for him.

I feel sorry for the little girl in Enniskillen killed by Gadaffis Semtex, whose dying words to here father as she lay under the rubble was " Daddy, I love you".

I feel sorry for the little kids and widows of people who had to check under their car for the little lunchbox full of semtex which came from Gadaffi....7 days a week, 365 days a year.

MysticalRain

meditraitor wrote: »

MysticalRain wrote: »

I feel distinctly uncomfortable reading a thread where people are eulogising a murderous dictator.

any normal person would stop reading, but then again your probably lying and just looking for a rise

Normal people don't eulogise tyrants.

meditraitor

andyjo wrote: »

I feel sorry for the little girl in Enniskillen killed by Gadaffis Semtex, whose dying words to here father as she lay under the rubble was " Daddy, I love you".

I feel sorry for the little kids and widows of people who had to check under their car for the little lunchbox full of semtex which came from Gadaffi....7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Gadaffi didnt make the semtex , some russian(czec) guy did....... point your anger in the right direction, at the supports and IRA bombers.

meditraitor

MysticalRain wrote: »

Normal people don't eulogise tyrants.

Normal people know the meaning of eulogize!

TeddyTedson

InTheTrees wrote: »

Is it murder if its self defense?

If you have captured them and they are not a threat to you, and then you choose to shoot them in the head, that's murder.

davoxx

andyjo wrote: »

I feel sorry for the little girl in Enniskillen killed by Gadaffis Semtex, whose dying words to here father as she lay under the rubble was " Daddy, I love you".

I feel sorry for the little kids and widows of people who had to check under their car for the little lunchbox full of semtex which came from Gadaffi....7 days a week, 365 days a year.

tbf did gaddafi plant them? did order them to be planted? do you want nato to invade and bomb this country looking for those responsible?

it is a bit of a stretch to blame him for those deaths.

i feel sorry for all the dead people killed by nato directly by bombing and indirectly by helping the insurgents ... gaddafi being just one of them.

i'm sure you'd be outraged by the us supplying arms to the congo, and would want the then president killed the same way?

meditraitor

andyjo wrote: »

I feel sorry for the little girl in Enniskillen killed by Gadaffis Semtex, whose dying words to here father as she lay under the rubble was " Daddy, I love you".

I feel sorry for the little kids and widows of people who had to check under their car for the little lunchbox full of semtex which came from Gadaffi....7 days a week, 365 days a year.

#
do you think he donated this semtex to the IRA?

if you do your a fool, the markup was about a 1000% and while we are on the point how do you think they could afford the semtex? the vast majority of the IRA donations came from the good ole US of A

and lastly, who do you think put the IRA in contact with gaddhafi, do you think some lowser from belfast went to tripoli and opened up talks, my arse..... back again to the good friends in the US of A

grow up

BlaasForRafa

meditraitor wrote: »

Gadaffi didnt make the semtex ye eejit, some russian guy did....... point your ignorant angst elseware

Semtex was made in Czechoslovakia. But Gaddafi's regime shipped huge quantities of it to the Provisional IRA.

charlemont

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Semtex was made in Czechoslovakia. But Gaddafi's regime shipped huge quantities of it to the Provisional IRA.

And fair play to Gadaffi for it, Otherwise we would still have an Orange state.

F-Stop

Trying to work out the tabloid headlines tomorrow. Best I can come up with: Gadaffai Got Offied.

'Course they used to call him Mad Dog, so there could be a riff on that. Mad Dog Put Down. Not that punchy.

Kim, get into my office Boards isn't doing our work for us, you are going to have to think of something yourself.

F-Stop

EVERYONE. Forget I typed that last bit.

F-Stop

charlemont wrote: »

And fair play to Gadaffi for it, Otherwise we would still have an Orange state.

Hold it Kim. I've just found something even crazier to go with.

RGDATA!

hurray for semtex

hangon

Morgan and Cooper have been showing disgusting video of his death on CNN.
He was very much alive upon capture.
very bad start to a new beginning even though he was scum.

Boskowski

Murderous tyrant?
Was he though? Where do you get that from? Or are we stretching the definition of 'murderous tyrant' a bit?