Renting cold house...

venusdoom

Hi all,
I'm in a bit of a situation. I've been renting a house for the past 6 months which was perfect for me but I'm sorry to say my mind has changed. It's always been a bit cold but now it's very noticeable and will only get worse. My problem is when I moved in, I thought that central heating and two fireplaces would be sufficient but I've just learned through my landlord that the fireplaces never worked! (Suggested for me to install an electric fire). Whenever I put on a fire, the smoke blew down and filled the room, leading me to believe the chimney was just blocked. I find myself now with a young child in a very cold house, which will cost me a fortune to heat with oil and even with the oil heating, it's not comfortably warm. I sought the house through a letting agency so I assume there would be a BER rating. Should I have been made aware that the fireplaces never worked before I signed the lease? If iI had known then, i wouldn't have gone through with it...

Thanks all.

daltonmd

venusdoom wrote: »

Hi all,
I'm in a bit of a situation. I've been renting a house for the past 6 months which was perfect for me but I'm sorry to say my mind has changed. It's always been a bit cold but now it's very noticeable and will only get worse. My problem is when I moved in, I thought that central heating and two fireplaces would be sufficient but I've just learned through my landlord that the fireplaces never worked! (Suggested for me to install an electric fire). Whenever I put on a fire, the smoke blew down and filled the room, leading me to believe the chimney was just blocked. I find myself now with a young child in a very cold house, which will cost me a fortune to heat with oil and even with the oil heating, it's not comfortably warm. I sought the house through a letting agency so I assume there would be a BER rating. Should I have been made aware that the fireplaces never worked before I signed the lease? If iI had known then, i wouldn't have gone through with it...

Thanks all.

Hi there, see here for info. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=96&page=240
"Your landlord must, by law, ensure that your home complies with certain minimum standards (e.g. free from damp, in good structural repair, hot and cold water, adequate means of heating and ventilation, appliances in good working order, electrical wiring, gas, pipes in good repair). If your home does not comply with these standards, report it to your local authority or the Private Residential Tenancies Board. An inspection will be carried out and the landlord ordered to do any necessary repairs. Contact Threshold, the Private Residential Tenancies Board or your local authority for further advice."


Have a look at the site for more information.


daltonmd

odds_on

You should have been shown/given a copy of the BER cert before you signed the lease.

Check out the following website to see the approximate costs of heating an apartment/house in 2010:
http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/BER/

Sorry, Seai have changed their website and the image I wanted doesn't seem to exist anymore.

venusdoom

Thank you for your replies. I actually feel so stupid now, I wasn't shown any BER cert nor does the house have ventilation ducts..

Ray Palmer

venusdoom wrote: »

Thank you for your replies. I actually feel so stupid now, I wasn't shown any BER cert nor does the house have ventilation ducts..

Not every room has to have vents only the bedrooms. That might just apply to older houses can't remeber.

The chimney could need to be resealed rather than just blocked. They also count as vents. Central heating should be enough, BER would not really tell you any of this. They rate it on the factor standards of the boiler when new.

The legislation being about adequate heating is very likely covered by the central heating. You could let the LL know that he can get the house externally insulated and get a 4k rebate plus deduct the remaining costs from rental profit. If the property is broken into more than one place he is entitled to 4k on each dwelling. It is worth him doing before the end of the year as rules are likely to change. Window vents can also cover the ventilation requirements

You can have an inspector call out to see minimum standards are met.

BER certs while a requirement are still not very usefull to tell you anything unless you know what it is really telling you.

Aye Bosun

While the BER is pretty useless you might find this thread informative. If he didn't furnish you with a BER cert before you signed the lease, it is a way you can break that lease without been penalised ie. without losing your deposit.

http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1593

Ray Palmer

Aye Bosun wrote: »

While the BER is pretty useless you might find this thread informative. If he didn't furnish you with a BER cert before you signed the lease, it is a way you can break that lease without been penalised ie. without losing your deposit.

http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1593

That is yet to be proven in a court. It is only a theory and has been spoken about before. Essentially that is mis imformation

Aye Bosun

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is yet to be proven in a court. It is only a theory and has been spoken about before. Essentially that is mis imformation

The purpose of a BER cert is to give the person purchasing or renting a property information on the energy usage of the property. Therefore as this was not furnished by the landlord, the OP did not have the full information when signing the lease for the property hence rendering the contract null and void. Read the link to the Law Society's report on the matter.

Ray Palmer

Aye Bosun wrote: »

The purpose of a BER cert is to give the person purchasing or renting a property information on the energy usage of the property. Therefore as this was not furnished by the landlord, the OP did not have the full information when signing the lease for the property hence rendering the contract null and void. Read the link to the Law Society's report on the matter.

It is still a theory yet to be proven it has already been spoken about. A case has to be won to prove the viability of this claim. The legal system does not hang on what the law society it hangs on what judges say.

I know the theory but it is not proven. The contract remains legal unless the OP decides to challenge the contract on this basis and gets a judge to agree. No judge agrees yet

cson

You'll find plenty of members of the judiciary previously contributed and were paid up members of the Law Society, thus the Law Society will pretty closely reflect the judicial thinking on most matters. You're blurring the lines between Contract Law and Land Law [specifically Landlord and Tenant Law]. They are not mutually exclusive.

I find it pretty incredible the general ignorance on the part of Letting Agents and Landlords when it comes to the production of a BER Certificate for a property they are letting. It is a legal requirement and not an afterthought, and to be quite frank ignorance of the law is not an excuse thus should any lease breaks occur because of a neglected obligation (such as producing a BER Cert), the tenants are fully justified.

odds_on

I find it pretty incredible the general ignorance on the part of Letting Agents and Landlords when it comes to the production of a BER Certificate for a property they are letting. It is a legal requirement and not an afterthought, and to be quite frank ignorance of the law is not an excuse thus should any lease breaks occur because of a neglected obligation (such as producing a BER Cert), the tenants are fully justified.

Fully agree with cson.

Not to mention Vendors and their Estate Agents who seldom know the rating nor are they able to provide at least the BER rating - without the certificate.

Ray Palmer

cson wrote: »

You'll find plenty of members of the judiciary previously contributed and were paid up members of the Law Society, thus the Law Society will pretty closely reflect the judicial thinking on most matters. You're blurring the lines between Contract Law and Land Law [specifically Landlord and Tenant Law]. They are not mutually exclusive.

True but unless the OP plans to bring the first case to court the belief of the law society means very little. We have discussed this at length in other threads. This information is really little help to the OP. It is not an open and shut situation.

gottarun

Hi all, we rented a house last autumn, before the cold snap, and when my husband asked about the BER cert he was told there wasn't one available. He expressed concerns about the electric storage heating in the house and the cost of running the household.

Any way between the jigs and reels the house was freezing in the winter. The windows and door did not have proper draft proofing the the house was impossible to keep warm. We thought we were stuck with this as we had a years lease signed.

We wrote to the agents and told them about the problems keeping the house warm, two young kids also, and after an age they sent someone out to 'fix' the windows. We actually taped them up with duct tape to stop the draughts.

In June this year with 4 months left on the lease we broke the lease on the ground that it was not fit for purpose. We were not getting our deposit back and were theatened with having to pay the balance of the lease.

We wrote to the agents citing the lack of BER (obligation on the part of the landlord and agent to present) as misleading and pointed out that producing a BER at the time of viewing is a legal requirement:

When is a BER legally required and who is entitled to a BER certificate?
A landlord / seller must provide a BER certificate to a prospective buyer or tenants when a house is constructed, rented or sold where the following criteria applies.
• New homes where planning permission was applied for on or after 1st of January 2007
• All existing houses for sale or rent on or after 1st January 2009

There is a maximum fine of up to €5000 for not having a BER Certificate when required.
Prospective buyers and tenants are entitled to see the BER cert so they can now for the first time take the energy performance of the home into consideration when deciding on their next house purchase or rental.

Highlighting the point re the possible fine, changed the tune and we got our deposit back and a reference.

Good luck!

Grolschevik

Aye Bosun wrote: »

The purpose of a BER cert is to give the person purchasing or renting a property information on the energy usage of the property. Therefore as this was not furnished by the landlord, the OP did not have the full information when signing the lease for the property hence rendering the contract null and void. Read the link to the Law Society's report on the matter.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73061495&postcount=12

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73061468

Idbatterim

so you have an oil fired boiler at the moment? and what is the problem? are the rads not heating up enough? the open fires are nearly a waste of time, you are losing the vast majority of heat up the chimney and only effectively heating one room, plus the mess and effort of it all. Then again heating up the whole house when you are only using one room at a time can be a waste, I assume most of us spend the majority of time either in living room or bedroom. Generally what I do is maybe put on heating for 30-45mins to take cold out of the house and then just heat the individual room for a while... If situation is really bad and urgent, Id get an oil filled rad, one with a thermostat and timer would be good...

venusdoom

Thanks for replies, we're going to write to landlord to try to fix the chimneys but that probably won't happen. We are living on the oil radiators but there's only one in each room and the house doesn't seem to be insulated (old stone house) so it still is pretty cold..

Baf50361

Remember you are the rent paying tenant and you have real rights - makes you v valuable -the landlord needs to listen to you

Ray Palmer

Baf50361 wrote: »

Remember you are the rent paying tenant and you have real rights - makes you v valuable -the landlord needs to listen to you

This is probably bad advice too. The LL only has to listen to you with regard to their legal requirements which he is meeting. You have central heating there is no obligation to provide more than that.

Tenants aren't as hard to get as people seem to think so you aren't that valuable and you can't really break the lease either. It sounds harsh but people are not helping if they don't get their facts straight.

You can ask. There is no way he will repair the chimney as it is very expensive to do.