Breastfeeding tip-toeing

intothewest

I’ve literally got steam coming out my ears at OP’s posts…talk about having blinkers on. Fine, be delighted with your wife for persevering and getting to breastfeed, but don’t go around dissing people for bottle feeding and commenting as if they are second class citizens for doing so. Talk about arrogant. Sounds to me, it’s not so much that you are upset more don’t breasfeed, but that you want to just to make noise for the sake of it. I breastfeed for four months, exclusively for the first 2 months and then I started him on a bottle at night because my supply wasn’t meeting his demands and night time feeds were becoming a 12hr shift…it wasn’t out of ‘laziness’ that I started him on a bottle at night, it was for the good of my health - both physical and mental – and not to mention that he was getting benefit too..he needed more grub to sustain him for night and we didn’t look back.
Breastfeeding doesn’t have to be an all or nothing thing…as one other poster said, don’t go knocking the converted. Just because someone stops altogether after a few weeks/months or starts supplementing, doesn’t mean they have failed at it or got lazy about it..it just means they have given what they can to their child, and each person knows what is the most appropriate next step for them. A blanket opinion cannot be put over something like this, it is a total case by case thing and it’s not until you are doing it that you will know how both you and baby will cope.

I know a lot of people who have breastfed, but very few of them have done it exclusively for the first 6 months without some form of bottle supplementing, and even less have done it beyond 6 months. The reality of life, and modern day life is a huge factor. Lots of us have full time jobs, other family to look after, and simply do not have the time that is sometimes required for breastfeeding (I say sometime cos all babies feed differently, some are way quicker than others).

I don’t like saying this, but it is easier for a man to preach all this, when it’s not him that has to physically do all the feeding…not to mention some/all of the side affects..engorgement, cracked nipples, leaking, waking up with a soaked top/bra, sore boobs etc etc. Trust me, before you even get to the emotional aspect of it, the physical side of things are a lot for a new mother to contend with. I personally found the engorgement dreadfully painful. Only for a friend of mine had firstly giving me the heads up about it, and secondly ensured me it was a short term thing, I (nor my OH) would have wrapped myself on the knuckles for giving up..esp two days after birth when you’re still recovering in other areas and all you want is to be left alone to heal…not have more discomfort.

I don’t want to sound like it’s all bad, cos it isn’t…I wouldn’t have stuck with it if it was…I just want to get across that it isn’t all this romantic, rose-garden thing all the time…it has it’s tough times and people shouldn’t be ostracised or berated for not doing it.

Neyite

OutOfStep Dad wrote: »

OP here.

It's amazing to think that those mothers who couldn't breastfeed their children for medical reasons....well, before the invention of formula milk, these babies would be dead now.

I wonder how much truth is being told here.

I've read all responses and made up my mind on that front.

Thanks to all.

Of course. Before formula, babies died. :rolleyes: Ever hear of a wet nurse?? Your statement is insulting and retarded.

Firstly, a big reason that women cannot breasfeed due to medical reasons is the medication the mother needs to be on that can harm the baby through breasmilk. The same medication that hadnt been invented probably before formula. Mine is a lighter dosage of the same medication they give to Parkinsons sufferers. Its to control the growth of a small brain tumor in my brain FFS. Would you let me pass that on to your child through breast milk? I bet you would be reaching for the Evil Forumla then, yeah?

There have been some very detailed and heartfelt responses here from mothers who tried their very best to breastfeed and for someone to dismiss their experiences as possible untruths is disgusting, and its telling that you hide behind an anonymous username.

So, you've made your mind up about women who cannot breastfeed. I daresay a few of us have made up our mind about you too. But the way I see it, your experience is as a bystander and an observer. Your wife's efforts and her breasts are doing all the work here, not you. So why are you so smug?

Hobbitfeet

Neyite wrote: »

Of course. Before formula, babies died. :rolleyes: Ever hear of a wet nurse?? Your statement is insulting and retarded.

Wet nurses were mostly a luxury for upper classes who had the money to pay for this service. Lower class people did not have the money to pay for this service and as a result I'm sure lots of babies did die if something happened to their mother that meant she could not breastfeed. I am sure throughout history there are very few cases of a wet nurse offering her services for free.

Ayla

True, but let's not forget that throughout history there were also any number of mothers breastfeeding in the same family/community at the same time. There was not the same stigma about feeding someone else's child as there is now, so if a woman was genuinely unable to feed for whatever reason someone else would have stepped up.

Hobbitfeet

I kind of disagree you can see from many different African tribes that if the mother dies the baby also dies unless it is old enough for solids. Resources are limited in communities like this and other members of the community can not afford to take on breastfeeding another women's baby.
I'm not 100% sure about this in regards to history if Europe but can imagine it would of been the same in lower classes. If you research this on internet you will find very little evidence of wet nurses for lower class babies.

psychward

My understanding is breastfeeding is much healthier, and due to it's chemistry gives the baby a stronger immune system, makes babies smarter and lays the foundations of a good physical condition of the baby. The formulas also tend to make babies much fatter and as they are sweeter the babies can get 'hooked'' on them and reject breast milk if they try it. That's how the formula companies design them apparently. My one year old girl was breastfed but she didn't latch on properly and my partner was killed with cuts and bites so had to give up after 6 months. Compared to babies of the same age she now eats a lot but is very slim yet, tall and has no allergies, skin problems or health problems whatsoever, has started walking and appears very intelligent as we speak different languages to her and she can pick them up, understand and even says a few words. I'm not saying it's the breast milk but I think theres very strong research that it helps.
There are some mothers who refuse to breastfeed because they believe it will ruin their breasts and figure. We haven't had that problem. If you can do it you should but if you can't well thats your decision.

Ayla

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

I kind of disagree you can see from many different African tribes that if the mother dies the baby also dies unless it is old enough for solids. Resources are limited in communities like this and other members of the community can not afford to take on breastfeeding another women's baby.

I'll give you that, in malnurised societies (not! just in Africa) of course a women can't feed more than her own child (and sometimes can't even do that).

I'm not 100% sure about this in regards to history if Europe but can imagine it would of been the same in lower classes. If you research this on internet you will find very little evidence of wet nurses for lower class babies.

And how much research on other low class issues would you find? :rolleyes:

pwurple

Wow, OP is smug for never having done it himself!

I breastfed for about 4 weeks, and gave it up for emotional reasons. I would mostly grit my teeth and get on with it, but her feeding times just became full of such pain and misery, I felt it was affecting me bonding with my child. I got to a point where I could barely even look at her without bursting into tears I had so much dread about the next feeding session looming. Probably linked to the post prego hormones as well, but I really just felt that I shouldn't be dreading that contact with her, so I switched to bottles. Take it as a lame excuse if you want, but that was my reason.

Most of my friends BF, as did my own mother, I had plenty of support in the hospital, and went to lactation consultants, BF groups etc. I fully intended to breastfeed from the get go and didn't even have bottles in the house so I wouldn't be tempted. She does have an egg allergy at 8 months, and of course I'm thinking, is that cos I didn't breastfeed long enough?

So, months later, left with only 1/3 of a nipple on one side after the experience (scar tissue grows back as normal skin, who knew!) and a bucket load of self-imposed guilt for not being able to carry it through, I am not impressed with OP.

Everyone's experience is different. Every woman is different, every baby is different.

btw, no clue what you are on about with the laxatives etc? Our baby just had bottles instead of breastmilk. None of that other stuff.

cynder

psychward wrote: »

My understanding is breastfeeding is much healthier, and due to it's chemistry gives the baby a stronger immune system, makes babies smarter and lays the foundations of a good physical condition of the baby. The formulas also tend to make babies much fatter and as they are sweeter the babies can get 'hooked'' on them and reject breast milk if they try it. That's how the formula companies design them apparently. My one year old girl was breastfed but she didn't latch on properly and my partner was killed with cuts and bites so had to give up after 6 months. Compared to babies of the same age she now eats a lot but is very slim yet, tall and has no allergies, skin problems or health problems whatsoever, has started walking and appears very intelligent as we speak different languages to her and she can pick them up, understand and even says a few words. I'm not saying it's the breast milk but I think theres very strong research that it helps.
There are some mothers who refuse to breastfeed because they believe it will ruin their breasts and figure. We haven't had that problem. If you can do it you should but if you can't well thats your decision.

From my own experience I can tell you that's bull.

I breast fed my first for 2.5 years, breast milk is ver sweet, it caused tooth decay in my girl at the age of 2. She also had diabetes at 7 and the asthmatic cough till she was 7, she also had loads of antibiotics due to cheats infections and had eczema. She was also much bigger than bottle fed babies. So your research can go down the pan.

My 2 bottle fed boys are much healthier. At 12 my eldest weight isn't an issue as she loses weight up to half a stone in 2 days every time she goes into ketoacidosis. Which is around once a year... She is tall but hay her dads 6 foot, genetics have more to do with it then if you were or weren't breast fed...

LegacyUser

grindelwald wrote: »

From my own experience I can tell you that's bull.

I breast fed my first for 2.5 years, breast milk is ver sweet, it caused tooth decay in my girl at the age of 2. She also had diabetes at 7 and the asthmatic cough till she was 7, she also had loads of antibiotics due to cheats infections and had eczema. She was also much bigger than bottle fed babies. So your research can go down the pan.

My 2 bottle fed boys are much healthier. At 12 my eldest weight isn't an issue as she loses weight up to half a stone in 2 days every time she goes into ketoacidosis. Which is around once a year... She is tall but hay her dads 6 foot, genetics have more to do with it then if you were or weren't breast fed...

Breastmilk causes tooth decay? So a perfect human-made substance destroys human teeth?

Sorry, I didn't read on after this...this is dangerous, nonsensical guff of the highest order.

caprilicious

pwurple wrote: »

She does have an egg allergy at 8 months, and of course I'm thinking, is that cos I didn't breastfeed long enough?

I definitely wouldn't blame yourself for causing the allergy. My mum breastfed me for 1 year. I still ended up having a childhood of chronic asthma & several food allergies including chocolate, E numbers (the additives the put in many foods to colour them) and eggs!

I tried my daughter on eggs first when she was 9 months and she did have a rash/runny tummy after. So I left til she was 15 months before trying again and thankfully she was fine taking them then.

psychward

grindelwald wrote: »

From my own experience I can tell you that's bull.

I breast fed my first for 2.5 years, breast milk is ver sweet, it caused tooth decay in my girl at the age of 2. She also had diabetes at 7 and the asthmatic cough till she was 7, she also had loads of antibiotics due to cheats infections and had eczema. She was also much bigger than bottle fed babies. So your research can go down the pan.

My 2 bottle fed boys are much healthier. At 12 my eldest weight isn't an issue as she loses weight up to half a stone in 2 days every time she goes into ketoacidosis. Which is around once a year... She is tall but hay her dads 6 foot, genetics have more to do with it then if you were or weren't breast fed...

Your experience doesn't prove that your breastfed girl wouldn't have had a worse time if she hadn't been breastfed or that your bottlefed boys wouldn't have benefited in some way from being breastfed.
As for the allergies. Hopefully most of them grow out of those anyway.

implausible

grindelwald wrote: »

From my own experience I can tell you that's bull.

I breast fed my first for 2.5 years, breast milk is ver sweet, it caused tooth decay in my girl at the age of 2. She also had diabetes at 7 and the asthmatic cough till she was 7, she also had loads of antibiotics due to cheats infections and had eczema. She was also much bigger than bottle fed babies. So your research can go down the pan.

My 2 bottle fed boys are much healthier. At 12 my eldest weight isn't an issue as she loses weight up to half a stone in 2 days every time she goes into ketoacidosis. Which is around once a year... She is tall but hay her dads 6 foot, genetics have more to do with it then if you were or weren't breast fed...

I'm sorry Grindelwald, but your personal experience does not contradict all the research that is out there about the benefits of breastfeeding. Of course, there are always going to be exceptions, as there is to everything. For example, everyone knows someone who smoked all their lives and didn't get lung cancer and everyone knows someone who never smoked who got lung cancer. That does not disprove the link between smoking and cancer.

lynski

The reduction of risk is not the same as the removal of risk.
Take one stat:

A study recently performed by the University of Virginia found that "breastfeeding can significantly reduce the risk of SIDS. Even a short period of breastfeeding can reduce the risk of SIDS by 45 percent. Breastfeeding only, without bottle or early food supplementation, could reduce the risk by 73 percent."

That does not mean that all babies who are artificially fed will die any more then it means that all babies who are normally fed will live. It means that Formula feeding increases the risk of SIDS. Like it also increases the risk of asthma, diabetes, gastro illnesses, allergies, depression in mothers, and a host of things. It does not mean all artificially fed babies will suffer from these ailments, just more of them than are naturally fed will. It does not mean all naturally fed babies will not suffer from these ailments just less of them will.
We take extraordinary precautions while pregnant to avoid a whole host of things for the risk the might pose to the developing infant, many of these risks are so minimal and are rare, yet most women avoid and worry about lots of things. As soon as baby arrives though more then 50% of Irish mothers expose their babies to multiple, documented, risks for, on the most part, no good reason.
(please note the on the most part - I have read all the special cases here and there are a small number of women with good reason to not breastfeed BUT again, study after study shows that that number is small and a lot smaller then 50%)
The op asked a question: why when mothers have all the information available to them do they put their babies at a higher risk by artificially feeding for no good reason?
Well I can tell you one reason - pressure. So much pressure. I am naturally feeding my 9mth old, third baby. I am committed to naturally feeding him until he self-weans. The pressure from family to give a bottle and to get my life back (i have 3 under 5, hello? this is my life), the pressure when he is not welcome at events (wedding, funeral, etc), the constant comments and remarks about how they could help me if he had a bottle, the expectation of friends that I will be finished with 'all that' by our christmas night out/friends birthday/etc, the questions about when I will finish. It is an almost daily incidence and it is not about being sensitive but about your confidence being undermined and your judgement being questioned with, it seems, impunity.

LegacyUser

caprilicious wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't blame yourself for causing the allergy. My mum breastfed me for 1 year. I still ended up having a childhood of chronic asthma & several food allergies including chocolate, E numbers (the additives the put in many foods to colour them) and eggs!

I tried my daughter on eggs first when she was 9 months and she did have a rash/runny tummy after. So I left til she was 15 months before trying again and thankfully she was fine taking them then.

Taking solid food too early can cause these allergies. Food not digested by an immature digestive system leaks into the blood stream and is attacked, causing life long allergies.

Might be worth asking when you were introduced to solid food. In the 60s and 70s, as early as possible was, wrongly, considered best practice.

Sieka

OS,
Firstly I would like to compliment you on the obvious pride that you take in having a breastfed baby. I imagine your wife must really value your support and your enthusiasm. It is a sad fact of our society that many mothers who want to breastfeed struggle with misinformation and a lack of support. I believe this contributes to early weaning and our poor breastfeeding rates. Access to a peer breastfeeding support group is invaluable. It is important to keep a sense of balance and perspective when considering infant feeding and other parenting choices though as what works very well for one family may not suit another for a myriad of reasons.

caprilicious

OutOfStep Dad wrote: »

Taking solid food too early can cause these allergies. Food not digested by an immature digestive system leaks into the blood stream and is attacked, causing life long allergies.

Might be worth asking when you were introduced to solid food. In the 60s and 70s, as early as possible was, wrongly, considered best practice.

I was started on solids at 11 months, so not excessively early. some might say a late starter in fact.
Just to clarify I wouldn't say my development of said allergies/asthma is reason enough for anyone not to breastfeed, I understand there are exceptions to the rule.


Absolutely true about it being considered early practice in the 60's/70's. A neighbour who had his children in this era was like a flea in my ear badgering me to try my daughter on solids at 8 weeks old. Needless to say I ignored this advice!

carfiosaoorl

I think it all comes down to personal choice and nobody has a right to judge another persons choices. I am a mother of 3 and I bottle fed all of my children. I am intelligent and educated. I know well the benefits of breastfeeding but I still chose to bottle feed and if I had another child he/she would be bottle fed because that is what feels comfortable to me.
I have 3 sisters who also have children 2 of us breast fed and 2 of us bottle fed. I also have another sister who is pregnant with her first baby and she intends to breast feed so its not like the concept of breast feeding is alien to me.
It irks me a lot when some people who breast feed think that they have stumbled upon this amazing idea and feel like they have to educate the ignorant masses. If anything it has the opposite effect than what they are looking for. In actual fact I think a strange elitest element has stumbled into breastfeeding
Women have been breastfeeding since the beginning of humanity you dont deserve a pat on the back for it.

psychward

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

I think it all comes down to personal choice and nobody has a right to judge another persons choices.

Yet you judge people who do choose to breastfeed ?

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

In actual fact I think a strange elitest element has stumbled into breastfeeding

lynski

OutOfStep Dad wrote: »

Taking solid food too early can cause these allergies. Food not digested by an immature digestive system leaks into the blood stream and is attacked, causing life long allergies.

Might be worth asking when you were introduced to solid food. In the 60s and 70s, as early as possible was, wrongly, considered best practice.

it was as early as possible because older formulas were so poor that infant malnutrition rates were enormous.

LegacyUser

To the person who stared this topic how good does it feel to be so smug that your wife is breasting feeding. It is easy to say how great and easy something is when your not doing it yourself. I know a few woman who breast feed and one did it to prove a point on how good a mother she is but in reality it was to lose weight/ keep off weight. Since she stopped feeding she lost more weight and now is thinner that when she was in college. Her skin and hair look don't look great and she is moody.
Another woman I know tried to bf but it did not work for her and she decided not to try on her second child due the to time factor and the age of her other child.
Another person I know plans to bf her baby like her friends did. I think for some woman bf seems to be a point scoring against other mothers and for the fact that it helps you to lose baby weight.
Life is hard enough for people out there at the moment and when your a new mother being told bf is best can be hard to take. The majority of people want to do what is best for there baby/child. We don't all live in a perfect world were sit down and feed a baby for as long as they want.

KittyeeTrix

Only gave breastmilk to one of my kids as he was premature born. I had to express it and give it to him from a bottle.
It was a nightmare and he was prone to infections way more than his older brother who was fed formula.
I swore I'd never breastfeed again and I didn't.

My daughter was born premature as well and I bottlefed her formula. She thrived and I never regretted my decision.
I don't feel that I didn't bond with them and never experienced any guilt because of bottle feeding!

carfiosaoorl

psychward wrote: »

Yet you judge people who do choose to breastfeed ?

No I dont. I dont think that that one clique defines all mothers who breastfeed. I know plenty of women IRL and on other parenting forums who breast feed. Most of them go about their daily business and give advice when its asked for and others bombard people with their opinions. They honestly seem to believe that they have life sussed and everyone else around them who doesnt do the same thing is an idiot. This is the elitist element Im talking about, not all women who breast feed.

January

OutOfStep Dad, I will not be approving your posts again until you learn to be civil to other posters.

implausible

wise woman wrote: »

I know a few woman who breast feed and one did it to prove a point on how good a mother she is but in reality it was to lose weight/ keep off weight. Since she stopped feeding she lost more weight and now is thinner that when she was in college. Her skin and hair look don't look great and she is moody.
Another woman I know tried to bf but it did not work for her and she decided not to try on her second child due the to time factor and the age of her other child.
Another person I know plans to bf her baby like her friends did. I think for some woman bf seems to be a point scoring against other mothers and for the fact that it helps you to lose baby weight.
Life is hard enough for people out there at the moment and when your a new mother being told bf is best can be hard to take.

I don't really see how a mother's motivation to do it is relevant. It is the baby who benefits, regardless of why the mother did it! And surely a breastfeeding mother is as entitled to the side-effect of losing weight as a bottle-feeding mother is to the freedom to let other people feed her baby?

The fact is that breast is best. Why is a scientific fact so hard to take? I'm pretty sure I'm not doing the recommended of weekly exercise I should. I know I should be more active, but I don't find activity-promoting ads 'hard to take'.

Little My

If women drink and smoke when pregnant they are choosing not to do the best thing for their baby's health & their own health. Everyone knows the risks, they are generally encouraged to give up, and are judged harshly by society for not only putting their own health at risk but risking their baby's health too. Alcohol comes with little pictures of pregnant women with a line through it just to remind everyone, just as cigarettes have warnings on them targeted at pregnant women.

Yet when women choose not to do the best thing for their baby's health and their own health and not attempt breastfeeding, its all about choice and rights and not being told what to. Does formula come with a notice saying you really should try breastfeeding first?

I have the utmost respect for women who breastfeed for any length of time, be it for a day or a week or 6 months. It is hard and it often doesn't work out for many reasons, and that's just the way things are. If more support was provided, and if breastfeeding was more common, probably a lot of those women who do start & stop relatively soon would continue longer.

But I find hard to fathom why a lot of women choose not to even try.

January

Little My wrote: »

If women drink and smoke when pregnant they are choosing not to do the best thing for their baby's health & their own health. Everyone knows the risks, they are generally encouraged to give up, and are judged harshly by society for not only putting their own health at risk but risking their baby's health too. Alcohol comes with little pictures of pregnant women with a line through it just to remind everyone, just as cigarettes have warnings on them targeted at pregnant women.

Yet when women choose not to do the best thing for their baby's health and their own health and not attempt breastfeeding, its all about choice and rights and not being told what to. Does formula come with a notice saying you really should try breastfeeding first?

I have the utmost respect for women who breastfeed for any length of time, be it for a day or a week or 6 months. It is hard and it often doesn't work out for many reasons, and that's just the way things are. If more support was provided, and if breastfeeding was more common, probably a lot of those women who do start & stop relatively soon would continue longer.

But I find hard to fathom why a lot of women choose not to even try.

Actually, yes, the tin of SMA sitting on my kitchen counter top says:

Breast milk is best for your baby, but if you can’t or choose not to breast feed, we recommend you use SMA First Infant Milk.

Also, this is on the front of their website when you try to click into it:

Notice

Please read this important notice before you view further information about SMA infant formulas:

By proceeding, you will be able to view information about SMA infant milks and other formulas. If you choose to do so, you are accepting that SMA Nutrition is providing this information at your individual request for informational purposes.

When it comes to feeding your baby, breast is best. If you do choose to breastfeed, it's important to eat a healthy diet. A decision not to breastfeed can be difficult to reverse. Introducing a bottle, even if it's only for one feed a day, can have a negative effect on breastfeeding and may reduce the supply of breast milk. Always seek the advice of a healthcare professional if you'd like to use infant formula, and please consider the social and financial implications when deciding whether to breast or bottle-feed. To avoid risks to your baby's health, infant formula should always be prepared, used and stored as instructed on the label.

http://www.smanutrition.ie/sma-products/sma-range/baby-0-6-months-658.aspx?catid=21

Little My

January wrote: »

Actually, yes, the tin of SMA sitting on my kitchen counter top says::

Thanks - I did genuinely wonder about this. It wasn't some sort of sarcastic rhetorical question.

deisemum

implausible wrote: »

I don't really see how a mother's motivation to do it is relevant. It is the baby who benefits, regardless of why the mother did it! And surely a breastfeeding mother is as entitled to the side-effect of losing weight as a bottle-feeding mother is to the freedom to let other people feed her baby?

The fact is that breast is best. Why is a scientific fact so hard to take? I'm pretty sure I'm not doing the recommended of weekly exercise I should. I know I should be more active, but I don't find activity-promoting ads 'hard to take'.

Other benefits for mums who breastfeed is a reduced risk of breast, uterine and ovarian cancer, womb contracts quicker, it lessens the risk of osteoporosis in later years, plus it's free and the the increased prolactin levels at "let down" are calming and it's convenient once established.

However it can be very tiring and stressful to get past the pain etc and stress can adversely affect milk production especially if there's very little support.

Even very experienced mothers who've breastfed their older children can have great difficulty trying to breastfeed a subsequent baby. I know of a woman who had 4 children that she breastfed for a long time, well into toddlerhood but on her 5th baby no matter what she tried with lots of help etc it didn't work out for her and she ended up having to give formula and was devastated. She had a 6th baby and was able to breastfeed that baby.

KittyeeTrix

My 2nd son was 6 weeks early weighing 3lbs 13oz. He had to stay for a few weeks in the baby unit in the Rotunda.

Some of the other mums in there were steadfastly holding out to try breastfeed even though it wasn't happening for them due to latching on issues ( the same happened to me hence I was reduced to bottle feeding the breastmilk)
Some of these women would not let the nurses bottlefeed the babies as they were that insistent on the actual act of breastfeeding!

For me, I just wanted the baby to develop his sucking reflex quickly, gain weight and get home so I was actually very happy that the actual act of breastfeeding was not important to me as I didn't feel at all like I had failed..