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Norris tape to be broadcast at 2:30pm (Oct 21)

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    #62
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    pipelaser wrote: »
    Hence the point I made about unfortunate meandering.

    Can you not see that, by mitigating the Christian brothers act of putting the hand in the pocket against rape, his argument goes against his personal values.

    He isn't mitigating it. It stands as it is as a crime and should be punished as such but it cannot be held to be equivalent to the rape of a child never mind the rape and murder of a child. The exact same applies to sexual assault cases with adults, a fondling is a crime but it is not as serious as rape.


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    #63
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    pipelaser wrote: »
    Sexual assault is as serious as rape.

    So a woman getting her ass fondled in a night club by some drunk lecherous lad is as serious as that woman being dragged down an alley and violently raped?


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    #64
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    anymore wrote: »
    If you have listened to the tape and read the transcript, you can decide where the transcript differs from the tape. Or maybe the FBI or CIA or some such body should be brought in to verify this is the real tape.

    The reality is that we have heard the tape and heard Norris's own words.
    I see no reason to doubt HLB's magill article whatsoever. I feel she has been vindicated.

    Really? Given that Norris said she stopped and started the tape - which she clearly did, and that much of the interview is missing - which it is, and that HLB went off on a deranged rant, based on this interview, about "Anyone who endorses sex between parents and children is not a suitable person for the presidency. We would be the laughing stock and the disgust of Europe" - any evidence that Norris endorses anything like that based on the bit of the interview she released?


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    #65
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    nesf wrote: »
    He isn't mitigating it. It stands as it is as a crime and should be punished as such but it cannot be held to be equivalent to the rape of a child never mind the rape and murder of a child. The exact same applies to sexual assault cases with adults, a fondling is a crime but it is not as serious as rape.
    HLB: What about paedophilia?

    DN: Well there is a lot of nonsense about that to be quite honest with you and I can say this because I haven't the slightest interest in children. I find them a bit of a bore to be quite honest with you.

    also

    He has said " But I think there is a complete and utter hysteria on this subject."
    See post 306 for transcript.
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/173791-liveline-broadcast-helen-lucy-burke-interview-david-norris-2-30pm-31.html


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    #66
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    anymore wrote: »
    HLB: What about paedophilia?

    DN: Well there is a lot of nonsense about that to be quite honest with you and I can say this because I haven't the slightest interest in children. I find them a bit of a bore to be quite honest with you.

    also

    He has said " But I think there is a complete and utter hysteria on this subject."
    See post 306 for transcript.
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/173791-liveline-broadcast-helen-lucy-burke-interview-david-norris-2-30pm-31.html

    What has any of that got to do with my post?


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    #67
    pipelaser
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭pipelaser


    nesf wrote: »
    He isn't mitigating it. It stands as it is as a crime and should be punished as such but it cannot be held to be equivalent to the rape of a child never mind the rape and murder of a child. The exact same applies to sexual assault cases with adults, a fondling is a crime but it is not as serious as rape.

    Why is he looking for someone, who fondles a child, to be shown more leniency than a child rapist? This already exists. Why say that there has to be a line drawn? I don't know how you can answer that?


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    #68
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    The tape (obviously) doesn't cover the whole interview. But the elements that are included in both the Magill article and the tape are identical. That gives her credibility.

    To be honest I'm amazed that Norris apologists are still defending him. It's just a reflection of the homosexual and liberal agenda to put a bizarre candidate into the Aras.

    What's quite disturbing is the way Norris claims he's not personally into kids...his concern doesn't appear to be age related...the implication seems to be that if a 13 year old boy is 6'2" and shaving, Norris would be perfectly happy to sodomize him, but that if underage males are "childlike", he has no interest. All about the physical. No mention of the mental or the ability to consent.

    He's a f..king disgrace, as is anyone who votes for him.

    You've caught out Norris on his personal kink - bearded children. Well done you. :rolleyes:


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    #69
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    pipelaser wrote: »
    Why is he looking for someone, who fondles a child, to be shown more leniency than a child rapist? This already exists. Why say that there has to be a line drawn? I don't know how you can answer that?

    Leniancy? Line drawn? Are you reading a different interview? He says nothing of the sort.


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    #70
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    alastair wrote: »
    Really? Given that Norris said she stopped and started the tape - which she clearly did, and that much of the interview is missing - which it is, and that HLB went off on a deranged rant, based on this interview, about "Anyone who endorses sex between parents and children is not a suitable person for the presidency. We would be the laughing stock and the disgust of Europe" - any evidence that Norris endorses anything like that based on the bit of the interview she released?

    I said it before, Joe Duffy said that Norris was invited on to the show and declined and he issued a statement saying he had been quoted out of context. HLB did point out he was free to take legal action against her if he felt aggrieved.
    If you can quote from the Liveline tape of the show which shows HLB went on a dreagnged rant, then do so. But my listening to the show several times showed me she was calm, confident of what she had to say and persuasive. Again Harry Mills of the irish Times, speaking on todays show confirmed her to be a careful journalist.


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    #71
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    pipelaser wrote: »
    Why is he looking for someone, who fondles a child, to be shown more leniency than a child rapist? This already exists. Why say that there has to be a line drawn? I don't know how you can answer that?

    Eh, what are you on about? He didn't ask for leniency, he merely drew a distinction between a child molester and a child rapist which is logically equivalent to drawing a distinction between a boss who fondles a subordinate in work and a man who violently rapes women. I really, truly, fail to see the problem in doing this.


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    #72
    Sean Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 858 ✭✭✭Sean Bateman


    alastair wrote: »
    You've caught out Norris on his personal kink - bearded children. Well done you. :rolleyes:

    Ah, the prime apologist...

    Best case scenario, the proposal is to elect someone with unconventional views regarding paedophilia, child welfare, the age of consent and incest.

    Worst case scenario...well the worst case scenario is utterly shocking.

    Thankfully all of this is a moot point because his campaign has gone off a cliff because most people have a modicum of sense and decency.


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    #73
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    anymore wrote: »
    I said it before, Joe Duffy said that Norris was invited on to the show and declined and he issued a statement saying he had been quoted out of context. HLB did point out he was free to take legal action against her if he felt aggrieved.
    If you can quote from the Liveline tape of the show which shows HLB went on a dreagnged rant, then do so. But my listening to the show several times showed me she was calm, confident of what she had to say and persuasive. Again Harry Mills of the irish Times, speaking on todays show confirmed her to be a careful journalist.

    She went off on her rant ten years after the interview, so it's rather unlikely to be on this incomplete recording.


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    #74
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    anymore wrote: »
    Post 306 on the P.ie thread on the interview has a transcript of much of the tape and you can read for yourself the remarks regarding this matter.
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/173791-liveline-broadcast-helen-lucy-burke-interview-david-norris-2-30pm-31.html
    Taking the bit where he says
    Now again it is not something that appeals to me, although when I was younger, it most certainly would have appealed to me in the sense that I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older attractive mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities and treating me with affection and teaching me about life.

    Yes I think that would be lovely. I would have enjoyed that but I am sorry to say I would let down the next generation because i wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in people who would be younger than me.
    is akin to how young hetrosexual teenage boys would've liked to be screwed by their good looking female teachers, but when you get older you realise that screwing a young teenage girl is wrong.

    =-=

    As for the tape "stopping", I'd wonder was the tape stopped, or if there is something that disproves her point. And since she released the tape to kill his run, I'd wonder how much was cut?


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    #75
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    Worst case scenario...well the worst case scenario is utterly shocking.

    The Aras filled with hairy children. and sodomy.


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    #76
    pipelaser
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭pipelaser


    nesf wrote: »
    Eh, what are you on about? He didn't ask for leniency, he merely drew a distinction between a child molester and a child rapist which is logically equivalent to drawing a distinction between a boss who fondles a subordinate in work and a man who violently rapes women. I really, truly, fail to see the problem in doing this.

    But who is he standing up for here?


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    #77
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    pipelaser wrote: »
    But who is he standing up for here?

    no-one? He seems to have it in for hysteria though.


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    #78
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    pipelaser wrote: »
    Sexual assault is as serious as rape.
    What?!!
    All types of sexual assault are as serious as rape?


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    #79
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    alastair wrote: »
    She went off on her rant ten years after the interview, so it's rather unlikely to be on this incomplete recording.
    The Liveline shows can be accessed on the RTE site or the link is on one of the Norris tapes. I certainly referred to it a good number of times. You can choose to quote her accurately or continue to make completely unsubstantiated remarks about her. It doesnt change the fact that we can read what she siad on the Livleine show, we can listen to her on the Liveline tape and we can now also lsiten to Norris's actaul words for a portion of the interview and we can verfiy that the words on the tape are reflected pretty accurately in the magill article. We can also make our own judgemeant as to why Norris declined to be on the Liveline Show with HLB.


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    #80
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Originally Posted by pipelaser
    Sexual assault is as serious as rape.
    dvpower wrote: »
    What?!!
    All types of sexual assault are as serious as rape?

    Depends on how the sexual assault is classified, in answer to pipelaser. The Law looks at it differently, in degrees and objectively.


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    #81
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    anymore wrote: »
    The Liveline shows can be accessed on the RTE site or the link is on one of the Norris tapes. I certainly referred to it a good number of times. You can choose to quote her accurately or continue to make completely unsubstantiated remarks about her. It doesnt change the fact that we can read what she siad on the Livleine show, we can listen to her on the Liveline tape and we can now also lsiten to Norris's actaul words for a portion of the interview and we can verfiy that the words on the tape are reflected pretty accurately in the magill article. We can also make our own judgemeant as to why Norris declined to be on the Liveline Show with HLB.

    I'm not making any unsubstantiated claims - I'm directly quoteing the woman's own claims about Norris - based on her reading of this interview. She has a record beyond today's Joe Duffy. Norris has already stated that he's done with this nonsense - so why he'd entertain HLB today - particularly after how she clearly misrepresented him, is a bit of a mystery.


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    #82
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    alastair wrote: »
    The Aras filled with . . . sodomy.

    FFS, it used to be the Vice-Regal lodge, coming down with English ex public school boy aristos. Do you really think it hasn't already seen plenty of it? :pac:


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    #83
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not making any unsubstantiated claims - I'm directly quoteing the woman's own claims about Norris - based on her reading of this interview. She has a record beyond today's Joe Duffy. Norris has already stated that he's done with this nonsense - so why he'd entertain HLB today - particularly after how she clearly misrepresented him, is a bit of a mystery.

    Rightly so, who has heard of her anyway?


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    #84
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    pipelaser wrote: »
    But who is he standing up for here?
    He's not standing up for anyone.
    He is just making a distinction that anyone with a modicom of common sense can see.


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    #85
    MrThrifty
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭MrThrifty


    Personally I can't stand Norris, not because of his homosexuality but just his personality etc. But, after listening to the tape recording today, I really feel that it's all much ado about nothing. The only dodgy thing was the possible belittling of child molesting but I do not believe that was his intention. Also bear in mind the times in which all this happened...


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    #86
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not making any unsubstantiated claims - I'm directly quoteing the woman's own claims about Norris - based on her reading of this interview. She has a record beyond today's Joe Duffy. Norris has already stated that he's done with this nonsense - so why he'd entertain HLB today - particularly after how she clearly misrepresented him, is a bit of a mystery.

    Problem is you are not quoting her at all !!!!!!!!!
    Yes we know Norris wants be done with " this nonsense" ...just as he wants to be done with letters he refuses to publish etc, etc.
    " I am an open book " - just look to read the things he doesnt want you to see.
    I am afraid he seem to lack the courage of his convictions.

    Bertie Ahern wanted to be done with all the nonsense as well, !


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    #87
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    pipelaser wrote: »
    But who is he standing up for here?

    He doesn't have to be standing up for anyone, he may just have a problem with people conflating molestation and rape into one and the same which is something I'd share.


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    #88
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Perhaps he would have benefited from this tape being released ages ago. :pac:


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    #89
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    It's the same problem with:
    This Interview,
    The Letters,
    The Pension,
    ie; the 'open books' inability to be read clearly.

    'Let me just say this,' the man's an arrogant buffoon.


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    #90
    take everything
    Registered Users Posts: 9,805 ✭✭✭take everything


    anymore wrote: »
    HLB: What about paedophilia?

    DN: Well there is a lot of nonsense about that to be quite honest with you and I can say this because I haven't the slightest interest in children. I find them a bit of a bore to be quite honest with you.

    also

    He has said " But I think there is a complete and utter hysteria on this subject."
    See post 306 for transcript.
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/173791-liveline-broadcast-helen-lucy-burke-interview-david-norris-2-30pm-31.html

    Real presidential material there.
    A president bored by children.
    Apart from questionable views on consent etc, surely the guy's judgement and at-times bizarre behaviour is enough to tell you he's probably not suitable for this job.
    I probably would have voted for him, from what i knew of his stance on human rights issues, before all this blew up (well, him or Higgins), but no way now.

    I can't fathom the dogged obduracy of some of his supporters given all the above. I know there are probably morons out there who wouldn't vote for him solely because he is gay, but tbh as far as i can see, his supporters seem to be rivalling such morons with their own preoccupation with his homosexuality.


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    #91
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    alastair wrote: »
    Just to be clear - you've devised a scenario of your own there - and ascribed it to Norris without a shred of evidence that it's something he would condone, let alone consider 'ok'.


    No, I haven't. I have taken his words, as heard on the tape and reported in the media and considered the full implications.

    He has said that he cannot understand why people would be in to pre-pubescent children but that there is something to be said for pederastry (older paedophilia to non-Greeks). In fact, as a young man he would have welcomed it. He also apologised to the new generation that he wasn't interested in passing on the same education.

    He has said that the principle of consent is the important issue not the age of consent.

    Therefore, in his eyes, there is nothing wrong with a 50-year old man having sex with a 12-year old girl so long as she is having periods, is well-developed and is mentally able to give consent. That is not a scenario of my own, it is the logical conclusion of Norris' bizarre ideas.

    The only other possibility is that he opens his mouth before he engages his brain. Either way he is unsuitable to be President.

    As I said before, you cannot deny what he said or the implications of it. You can still support him and vote for him but don't expect others to vote for that kind of thinking. Stop pretending he didn't say it and stop pretending it means something other than what was said.


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