Starting a wine cellar

afatbollix

You don't see many of these around ireland but thought I would start one.


Any advice?

I'm going to buy a 90 bottle wine rack off tesco and store it in a cupboard in my house it's fairly cold in there and unless the door is opened its pretty dark.


I'm off to france next week I'm stocking up on cheap booze that I can drink straight away but any advice on what I should keep for 5+ years? Red & white.

I'm going to buy 6 bottles of champagne ( small producer stuff so cheaper)
I'm mostly a white wine drinker so I'll buy that in bulk to drink over the next year

What sort of red wine should I buy to make a good mulled wine at Christmas?

Any advice would be great.

mikep

Hi

Its a great idea...I have been storing wine in the coldest room of our house for years now...It seems to stay around 13 degrees C all year which is a good temp for storage.

I tend to keep an eye out for bargains on wines that I feel are too young at the mo...e.g. the campo viejo crianza and reserva are reduced in tesco at the mo and in my opinion need a few more years in bottle. I also have gotten bargains of decent bordeaux on ebay (chateau palmer 1995 for €75!! a few years back...holding on to it for a while longer...)

I also have found that the Picinni range in tesco get nicer after a few years, particularly the chianti collezione oro..

I guess the best advice is to try things out and with trial and error you could end up with some lovely wine and have fun along the way...

Enjoy!.

the beer revolu

Regarding white wines for keeping, I've found that some premium Reislings age very well as do Chablis Grand Cru and Premier Cru.

Barolo, Barberesco and Bordeaux would be obvious choices for ageing reds as would decent Spanish Reservas and Grand reservas. I've also found that some Burgundys benefit from some bottle ageing although they are usually drunk quite young.

The key to building and maintaining a cellar is to buy more wine than you drink!
Also go through it every once in a while to remind yourself what's there and to drink anything that's getting a bit old.

Enjoy

mikep

As previously mentioned the rieslings and chablis age well...most decent white burgundies are worth keeping...keep an eye on tesco as they have some nice chablis and macon available on offer occasionally.

I have been trying to put away some like Torres vina sol and Villa maria various whites to see will bottle age take the sharp edges off the, although I find we drink them too soon to make any subjective judgements on the results.

As I mentioned earlier try it out...buy a few of what you like, put them away and try them at various intervals....

Should we start a new thread for results and updates??

afatbollix

Ill update this thread if you want.

As I said off to France on Monday to stock up and Ill stick a small list here.

afatbollix

Right back from France. We went to the champagne region so picked up a few bottles

Bottles of note is a Blin vintage 1998 for €25! Got a 2005 vintage for €20 too insane value!
We then got some local producer stuff which was fantastic value.

Picked up some cheap stuff too in the local supermarket some pinot gringo & some white zinfandel for the lady.

I also picked up 6 reds that are all medal winners for under a 5er each. I will take some photos tonight and maybe someone could tell me I picked up a bargain in the reds that are worth a fortune in 20 years

the beer revolu

afatbollix wrote: »

I also picked up 6 reds that are all medal winners for under a 5er each. I will take some photos tonight and maybe someone could tell me I picked up a bargain in the reds that are worth a fortune in 20 years

Sounds like you had some fun!
In reality, nothing you buy for €5 is going to increase greatly in value but it might well benefit from a couple of years in the bottle.

Just last week I opened a bottle of 1997 Bordeaux. I couldn't remember where I got it from and google came up with nothing for it. Twas rubbish:mad: Twas probably cheap plonk in 1997 and in 2011 it was old cheap plonk.

It's a good idea to put some sort of label on your wines so you remember where they came from and their value and how long you hope to age them for.

afatbollix

You do have to remember that cheap wine in france costs a euro a bottle. So a 5er is expensive :P

I do know the champagne will increace in flavour after a few years except the muck that we bought in Lanson & Moat Silly Girlfriend..

mikep

Here is what I have put away for medium to long term storage to be enjoyed on special occasions.( all red by the way)
2 x Chateau D'Agassac 1986,bordeaux, due to be had this christmas
2 x Tollinche freres 1996, Gevery Chambertin 1er Cru, burgundy, also for christmas
1 x Chateau Lilian Ladouys 2006, bordeaux, 3+ years more storage
1 x Clos Du Val Cabernet Sauvignon, 2004 , california, 5+ years more
1 x Clos Du Val Merlot, 2006, california, unsure about this,3+ years anyway
2 x Chateau Loudenne, 2004, bordeaux, going to try one in a year or two...
1 x Tignanello 1995, tuscany, 5+ years more
1 x Chateau Palmer 1995, bordeaux, 5-10 years (at least)
1 x Chateau Pontet Canet, 1994, bordeaux,3-5 years more
1 x Chateau De Fieuzal, 2005, bordeaux, 3-5 years more minimum
2 x Chateau Mallescasse 2000, bordeaux, delicious now but will keep a bit longer
1 x Chateau Brane Cantenac 1999, bordeaux, 5- 10 years
1 x Vieux Chateau Certan 1994, bordeaux, 5-10 years

I have another list of stuff for drinking sooner which I will post later, also will post updates on this list as they happen....
There are some there that I am finding very hard to resist!!!!:D

mikep

These are wines I have put away for shorter term storage, if I can leave them long enough..I have found that some red wines available now in shops need some time to take the harsher tannins out and make them a more enjoyable drink...

2 x Villa Maria Private Bin Pinot Noir 2010, New Zealand
3 x Errazuriz Cabernet Sauvignon 2010, Chile
2 x Wairu Cove Sauvignon Blanc 2010, New Zealand
2 X Villa Maria Sauvignon Blanc Cellar Selection 2010, New Zealand
1 X Tim Adams Semillon 2008,Australia
1 x Tesco Finest Pinot Noir (Highfield estate) 2009, New Zealand
2 x Errazuriz Cabernet Sauvignon 2008, Chile (Had 3 opened 1 recently to gauge it and cork was shot, wine gone off)

Will update as they are opened...

mikep

Opened the Tesco finest Pinot Noir 2009 on friday...It had improved considerably from when I bought them, although probably wouldn't get much better...Might get a few 2010's and see how they fare.

Also opened the 2008 Errazuriz Cabernet, much more drinkable than when purchased, should last a bit longer too...

afatbollix

I was very lucky to go to the wine show in London at the weekend and by the looks of things Its all about the medal winners. Deffo will be looking at them wines for the cellar.

I also joined the wine society which have a shop up north.

mikep

I forogt to include this in the short term storage section, Seigneur d'Albret 2007, Medoc.

Have 4 of these which I got for €5(!!) in Tesco cashel, being sold off as discontinued stock.
Had one last night, needs air and will probably improve in the next couple of years....Nice at the moment once the air has done its magic...used a Vinturi while decanting it...

mikep

There are some good bargains to be had in Tesco, plus an extra 25% off when you buy 6, at the moment for anyone who is thinking of putting some wines away....

afatbollix

Any idea on what Whites I should buy for lying down?

I might go to tesco next week. I need to buy an other rack next week too I have 20 bottles in boxes lying down in the corner.


The first real wine I bought in a case is this:
http://www.chilfordhall.co.uk/cgi-bin/ch/wines.html

Chilford Hundred Medium Dry 2009: A case of 12 It really tastes of apples and is very easy to drink, I dont think it will last years but it will be for summer drink.

Also bought a half case of Blush 2010 also a nice easy to drink summer wine. As its a small vineyard I had to buy from the vineyard direct but I'm very happy with the purchase.

I need to buy selection cases and find wines that are nice and then just buy a case of it. Im lucky to have the space for cases. I will put up my champagne purchase soon from the week in France soon.

mikep

Whites for laying down wouldn't be my main area of interest but the best white burgundies can last for years, but are big bucks if you can find them. tesco recently had an 07 Pouilly Fuisse, can't remeber the name but I am going to leave it for a few more year, had one when I bought them and I think they will get better.
A lot of Alcase and german whites also need age...

Some Aussie whites will also benefit from medium term storage, Tim Adams and McWilliams semillon again from tesco come to mind..

Do some research and let us know of any good finds!

mikep

I had another example of the benefits of storage of supermarket wine...
Enjoyed, this weekend, a 2004 Pinot Noir from Tyrrells bought in '05 from Dunnes..
This was the "bog standard" wine, I remeber at the time it was fairly typical new world pinot, however the tannin suggested it would age and develop nicely.
Patience was rewarded and the original "jammy" wine become a lot more smooth and interesting with the tannins much softer...There was a lump of crystalline sediment in the bottle...

Most enjoyable but there is only 1 bottle left....

Loire

mikep wrote: »

Here is what I have put away for medium to long term storage to be enjoyed on special occasions.( all red by the way)
2 x Chateau D'Agassac 1986,bordeaux, due to be had this christmas
2 x Tollinche freres 1996, Gevery Chambertin 1er Cru, burgundy, also for christmas
1 x Chateau Lilian Ladouys 2006, bordeaux, 3+ years more storage
1 x Clos Du Val Cabernet Sauvignon, 2004 , california, 5+ years more
1 x Clos Du Val Merlot, 2006, california, unsure about this,3+ years anyway
2 x Chateau Loudenne, 2004, bordeaux, going to try one in a year or two...
1 x Tignanello 1995, tuscany, 5+ years more
1 x Chateau Palmer 1995, bordeaux, 5-10 years (at least)
1 x Chateau Pontet Canet, 1994, bordeaux,3-5 years more
1 x Chateau De Fieuzal, 2005, bordeaux, 3-5 years more minimum
2 x Chateau Mallescasse 2000, bordeaux, delicious now but will keep a bit longer
1 x Chateau Brane Cantenac 1999, bordeaux, 5- 10 years
1 x Vieux Chateau Certan 1994, bordeaux, 5-10 years

I have another list of stuff for drinking sooner which I will post later, also will post updates on this list as they happen....
There are some there that I am finding very hard to resist!!!!:D

And where do you live in Tipperary exactly :D

I love a good dessert wine from Loire :cool: and have the following "put down"

Coteaux du Layon
Bonnezeaux
Quarts de Chaume

I have about 20 of these bottles built up now going back to about 2005. Each time I go to France I buy a half dozen or so.

I've also put down some red Côte de Nuits and a St Emillion Grand Cru last summer and I'll give these about 5 years I think.

mikep

Have added these to my stash recently..

Long term:
1x 2003 Ch. Musar, Lebanon. Intend to keep for a few years although it mightn't make it...
1x 2003 Ch. d'Angludet, Margaux at least 5 years..
1x 2008 Alpha Zeta Amarone, Verone, maybe 10 years...

Short term
6x 2006 Campo Viejo Reserva, Rioja should improve in the next 5 years or so
4x 2009 Tesco finest Valpolicella Ripasso will improve for a couple of years but probably won't last over crimbo.
1x 2007 Montes Alpha Syrah, chile, 1-2 years

Loire, it might be interesting to keep a few of those Loire whites for long term...some apparently can age for decades!
What are the reds you have??

kerosene

I have made a few basic enquiries into buying wine as an investment through a wine agent in the north. I know nothing about wine at all. I had a simplistic idea of buying a case of wine every month on bond for 25 - 30 years. Then I would sell a case every month so it would be like a pension in many ways. I am reluctant to take out a conventional pension at present and I am wondering if this idea is practical at all or a complete non runner. The agent in the north is well established and respected and I would only buy wine that they advise, they are due to get back to me in the new year. Any advice would be appreciated.

mikep

Hi Kerosene

I am considering the same thing. I assume its JN you are talking about, they seem to have a decent system set up. Take at look at berry brothers (bbr.com) they have been in business for centuries and their investment only plan looks good although is expensive. The also have a good investment advice section.
Decanter wine magazine does a good investment section as I'm sure other magazines do, always worth doing the max ampunt of research.
Another thing to condsider is buying en primeur, which is basically buying the wine before it is bottled and holding on to it...many suppliers will store it in bond for you and some will resell it at a later date, at a cost of course...as with all investments research is the key, however wine has preformed fairly well and as the developing countires are into the market big time now prices are being maintained..although is China about to go pop?? Big stlye property bubble going on there apparently...many things to consider...
If you go with it let us know how you get on...

the beer revolu

@kerosene,

I've been threatening to buy wine em primeur for a while now (a frend of mine works for JN wines). It seems completely safe as I understand it because JN has an agreement to buy back the wine from you at the price you paid for it if you decide you don't want the wine. I'd be looking at it as a way of getting top end wines fairly cheap or if I need the money when the time comes hopefully it will have been a good investment too.

One thing you need to factor in is the tax relief you get on PRSAs. Even if the value is down on your pension you must remember that you've gotten tax relief on every penny you've invested.

kerosene

Jn are the company I approched, I am not expecting to hear anything until the new year. At the moment it is just an enquiry, though I would be very willing to invest if I thought it would be profitable.

mikep

Rihgt did a fair nit of damage over the crimbo..

Had the 1986 D'Aggasac and the '96 Gevery Chambertin, both rather disapponiting...the D'Agggasac was still very tannic and didn't mellow out at all with air etc...
The G Chambertin was well....nice....just nice!

The Montes Alpha Syrah 2007 was delish although need decanting and lots of air...

Campo Viejo Reserva '06 and tesco finest Valpolicella gone...

mikep

Just added the following from d'Arenberg all for long term storage..
2005 The Dead Arm Shiraz; 2002 The Coppermine Road Cabernet Sauvignon, 1999 The Ironstone Pressings Grenache, shiraz, mouverdre
Also from d'Arenberg 2006 The twentyeight road Mourvedre, going to leave for around 5 more years...had one recently...really interesting but still a bit young..
Got some Tim Adams "The fergus" 2007 which I will also try to leave for 5 years or so...

Loire

mikep wrote: »

Loire, it might be interesting to keep a few of those Loire whites for long term...some apparently can age for decades!
What are the reds you have??

Only saw this now, sorry.

Yip, I plan on leaving the dessert wines for 20 years or so. I don't have any good reds put away...keep dipping in!! Will head to France again next year on hols and will stock up again.

Padraig Mor

Speaking of cellaring wine......I just ordered my first case en primeur! The Domaine Durieu Cuvee Lucile Avril Chateauneuf-du-Pape from here. At circa €25.50 per bottle (€18 ex-tax) when delivered next year, it looks like bloody good value for a Parker 95 pointer from a 'trendy' appellation that should be drinking nicely until 2030 or so. Now all I need is a cellar to put it in.......

zac8

Here's some that I'm trying to keep by for a few years:

2 x Stefano Accordini Amarone 2007
1 x Bodega Numanthia Termes 2001
1 x Bodega Numanthia Termes 2006
1 x Vieux Telegraphe Chateauneuf-du-Pape 2007
2 x La Crau de ma Mere Chateauneuf-du-Pape 2007
4 x San Felice Campogiovanni Brunello di Montalcino 2006
1 x Ridge Geyserville 2008
4 x Kanonkop Estate Pinotage 2009
1 x Chateau Loudenne 2006
1 x Chateau Belle-Vue 2007

If you haven't seen it then I recommend you take a look at cellartracker.com. It's free. You can record your collection with private notes on each bottle as well as the date bought and price paid. There's a nice ipad app for it too.

afatbollix

Ive added a couple to the celler this month.

I bought one of these around Christmas time and really liked it and as it was half price in my local I bought 8 of them,
Terres De Galets Aoc Cotes Du Rhone

Very nice wine, Fruity big taste of red apples. I like it cool not warm like normal red wines.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1334743212580

I seen a review of this wine online so bit the bullet and bought 6 of them.
Latria Garnatxa Carinyena, Montsant, 2006

Needs to be decanted as has a bit of sediment in it but it adds to it.
www.thewinesociety.com/shop/shop.aspx?section=pd&pl=ZSP&pd=SP6861&pc=&prl=STD

Also found some Stuff in my local tesco as reduced most just have a stain on the lable and all have a gold awards so happy with the money off Also got some rose for the lady.

Padraig Mor

Have a max/min thermometer/hygrometer stuck into my putative wine 'cellar' (err.....press in the kitchen) since last night to see hoe the conditions would fare for storing wine.....

the beer revolu

afatbollix wrote: »

I seen a review of this wine online so bit the bullet and bought 6 of them.
Latria Garnatxa Carinyena, Montsant, 2006

Needs to be decanted as has a bit of sediment in it but it adds to it.
www.thewinesociety.com/shop/shop.aspx?section=pd&pl=ZSP&pd=SP6861&pc=&prl=STD

Where did you pick this up?
And How much?
Sounds great.

afatbollix

I used the wine socitey as I live in London

They do have a showroom up north
where you can pay UK VAT & duty = cheaper wine

The case cost me £45
http://www.thewinesociety.com/ServicesContent.aspx?PageCode=DeliColl&PageName=Delivery%20and%20Collection&SubPageCode=DELIVNI&SubPageName=Collection%20in%20Northern%20Ireland

Padraig Mor

afatbollix wrote: »

I used the wine socitey as I live in London

They do have a showroom up north
where you can pay UK VAT & duty = cheaper wine

The case cost me £45
http://www.thewinesociety.com/ServicesContent.aspx?PageCode=DeliColl&PageName=Delivery%20and%20Collection&SubPageCode=DELIVNI&SubPageName=Collection%20in%20Northern%20Ireland

I think UK duty is higher than ours though? And scheduled to go up each year for the next few years? Obviously their VAT is lower though.

Slaphead07

I know this isn’t going to go down well with some you but I think it needs to be said.

A wine cellar is made up of carefully selected wines which should improve over time – say 5, 10, 15 years. Almost all supermarket wines are produced and bought for drinking now. Sticking them away in a quiet dark corner will not improve them significantly, if at all. Equally, taking the van to France does not increase your chances of happening upon wines that are suitable for laying down. The notion that a mediocre wine will somehow transform into something fantastic is very optimistic. You can of course get lucky but by and large a long term wine cellar requires a lot more work than that. Yes a wine will soften out and become more balanced but you could drink that wine today if you spend a few euros more. Does it make sense to store wine for 5 + years to save €2? I don’t think so. Use your storage space better by selecting wines which are good now and will are virtually guaranteed to improve. If you have sufficient storage space to do both then great.

You really need to talk to a wine merchant you can trust who knows what wines will improve over time and what ones are to be avoided. Price is no real indicator. Most wines will “close up” for a few years and unless you know from experience when best open it you could be opening something undrinkable. Less expensive wines provide a more satisfying investment. Certainly buying between €10 and €15 you should be able to buy wines that will deliver real improvements over 5 + years.

Don’t get me wrong… I’m all for laying down a good bottle for a few years but I only do it when I come across a wine I believe will improve over time.

I know 99% of you will disagree completely with me and I also understand why. But there’s a difference between having a collection of nice wines and starting a wine cellar.

johnnyskeleton

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I know this isn’t going to go down well with some you but I think it needs to be said.

A wine cellar is made up of carefully selected wines which should improve over time – say 5, 10, 15 years. Almost all supermarket wines are produced and bought for drinking now. Sticking them away in a quiet dark corner will not improve them significantly, if at all. Equally, taking the van to France does not increase your chances of happening upon wines that are suitable for laying down. The notion that a mediocre wine will somehow transform into something fantastic is very optimistic. You can of course get lucky but by and large a long term wine cellar requires a lot more work than that. Yes a wine will soften out and become more balanced but you could drink that wine today if you spend a few euros more. Does it make sense to store wine for 5 + years to save €2? I don’t think so. Use your storage space better by selecting wines which are good now and will are virtually guaranteed to improve. If you have sufficient storage space to do both then great.

You really need to talk to a wine merchant you can trust who knows what wines will improve over time and what ones are to be avoided. Price is no real indicator. Most wines will “close up” for a few years and unless you know from experience when best open it you could be opening something undrinkable. Less expensive wines provide a more satisfying investment. Certainly buying between €10 and €15 you should be able to buy wines that will deliver real improvements over 5 + years.

Don’t get me wrong… I’m all for laying down a good bottle for a few years but I only do it when I come across a wine I believe will improve over time.

I know 99% of you will disagree completely with me and I also understand why. But there’s a difference between having a collection of nice wines and starting a wine cellar.

I suppose it's not just about trying to get wines that will age well, part of the appeal is to have a large selection of wines on hand so that you can pick a nice one whenevr the mood strikes. I don't think we need to be too snobby as to whether such is called a wine cellar or just a collection.

Slaphead07

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I don't think we need to be too snobby as to whether such is called a wine cellar or just a collection.

Nothing to do with "snobby" at all. If you keep them separate your cellar won't get dipped into at 2am when you have mates/family around for drinkies.

mikep

mikep wrote: »

J
Also from d'Arenberg 2006 The twentyeight road Mourvedre, going to leave for around 5 more years...had one recently...really interesting but still a bit young..
Got some Tim Adams "The fergus" 2007 which I will also try to leave for 5 years or so...

Another update...All the Tim Adams got demolished...they don't have it any more in my local tesco, although the semillon is still on offer at the mo...and is highly regarded...as are most of Tim Adams wines..

Also now have only one 28 road left.....

Must put a lock on the door to my cellar/store/stash.....:rolleyes:

duckworth

mikep wrote: »

Another update...All the Tim Adams got demolished...they don't have it any more in my local tesco, although the semillon is still on offer at the mo...and is highly regarded...as are most of Tim Adams wines..

Also now have only one 28 road left.....

Must put a lock on the door to my cellar/store/stash.....:rolleyes:

The Tim Adams whites in Tescos are unbelievable. The Semillion and the Riesling are both incredible, with the Semillion being really special. I noticed they are selling the 09 and 10 mixed together - I've only tried the 09 Semillion.

It is usually 17€ but was reduced to 10 for May. If you availed of the 25% off 6 bottles last week, you were actually getting them for €7.50, which was the Wine Bargain of the year for me by a long shot.

I'd imagine they'd age beautifully too - if you like that aged white character (some don't).

Slaphead07

There is no point whatsoever in putting that semillion in a wine cellar. The Reisling maybe but I seriously doubt it. Keep the space for something worthwhile.

johnnyskeleton

Slaphead07 wrote: »

There is no point whatsoever in putting that semillion in a wine cellar. The Reisling maybe but I seriously doubt it. Keep the space for something worthwhile.

Why not? Are you saying that semillion can't age or that this particular wine can't? Have you tried and it turned to vinegar or what is the basis? I thought semillion wines could age reasonably well but then again I'm not mad into whites socant really comment.

Slaphead07

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Why not? Are you saying that semillion can't age or that this particular wine can't? Have you tried and it turned to vinegar or what is the basis? I thought semillion wines could age reasonably well but then again I'm not mad into whites socant really comment.

White wines generally don't age well. You really have to pick and choose what whites to lay down. Good (fairly expensive) well chosen Cotes Du Rhones, Loire Valley, sweet wines or Sancerre's might age well but most wines in supermarkets are for drinking now and will not improve with age. Quite the opposite in fact. Most mainstream whites have a shelf life of 6 years. Buy them, drink and enjoy them but putting them in a cellar is a waste of cellar space.

A simple rule of thumb... if the wine has a screwtop not even the maker thinks it's going to improve with age!

johnnyskeleton

Slaphead07 wrote: »

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Why not? Are you saying that semillion can't age or that this particular wine can't? Have you tried and it turned to vinegar or what is the basis? I thought semillion wines could age reasonably well but then again I'm not mad into whites socant really comment.

White wines generally don't age well. You really have to pick and choose what whites to lay down. Good (fairly expensive) well chosen Cotes Du Rhones, Loire Valley, sweet wines or Sancerre's might age well but most wines in supermarkets are for drinking now and will not improve with age. Quite the opposite in fact. Most mainstream whites have a shelf life of 6 years. Buy them, drink and enjoy them but putting them in a cellar is a waste of cellar space.

A simple rule of thumb... if the wine has a screwtop not even the maker thinks it's going to improve with age!

I think the prejudice against supermarket wines comes from a time when everything in them was cheap. But you can get some great wines in supermarkets. Odds are that a really expensive wine will age well and really cheap ones won't.

But why not try it? I'm not sure that wine experts really know what they're talking about, and obviously someone who sells or has a large collection of expensive wines in the cellar will look down on someone trying to age the cheaper wines. If you put a cheap wine away for a few years and it is a bit better, just the same, or runs the risk of turning to vinegar then what's the problem?

Obviously a screw cap isn't designed to age but were not really talking about that.

Martyn1989

Slaphead07 wrote: »

A simple rule of thumb... if the wine has a screwtop not even the maker thinks it's going to improve with age!

I don't know much about wine but I heard that the screw cap keeps the wine better? My understanding was that wines are stored on their sides to keep the cork moist which prevents the cork breathing and would screw caps not do that better?

the beer revolu

In my experience, Chablis and Reisling can benefit massively from bottle ageing.

Slaphead07

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I think the prejudice against supermarket wines comes from a time when everything in them was cheap. But you can get some great wines in supermarkets.

It's mostly mediocre or worse. You'd need to know what you're looking for or be very lucky.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm not sure that wine experts really know what they're talking about, and obviously someone who sells or has a large collection of expensive wines in the cellar will look down on someone trying to age the cheaper wines.

Well I'm no expert but there are some basic facts about wine. I don't "look down" on anyone trying to age cheaper wines but, as I've said in previous posts, you don't have to spend lots to get wine that is worth putting away. People are free to do what they want with their money and their cellar but it's important to point out some realities for others who might be considering a cellar.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Obviously a screw cap isn't designed to age but were not really talking about that.

Well we should talk about it. The wines mentioned above are all screwtop. They are hermetically sealed and have done all the aging they're going to do.

Slaphead07

the beer revolu wrote: »

In my experience, Chablis and Reisling can benefit massively from bottle ageing.

Some can but to varying degrees. You'd need to know the winemaker and previous vintages to judge.

Slaphead07

Martyn1989 wrote: »

My understanding was that wines are stored on their sides to keep the cork moist which prevents the cork breathing and would screw caps not do that better?

The cork is kept moist to prevent it drying out. It breaths just fine when moist! Screw caps seal the bottle so the wine cannot breath or mature. Fine for young red wines and most whites and fine for wines that are to be drunk soon.

johnnyskeleton

On a side note, it would be interesting to find out what factors do and do not affect the ageing of a wine. I've heard that
mainly it's the tannins breaking down that causes it, but from there most people jump to a well crafted wine will age well while a poorly crafted one won't. I mean, surely highly tanninic varietals eg Cabernet franc/sauvingnon will benefit from some ageing, even if they are cheaply made.

I got a good michael lynch 2006 in tesco for just over a tenner there a while ago. If aging mellows the tannins then I suspect it could be aged successfully for another few years.

johnnyskeleton

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Well we should talk about it. The wines mentioned above are all screwtop. They are hermetically sealed and have done all the aging they're going to do.

fair enough, I am not familiar with that particular wine. But why not just say that outright?

Slaphead07

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

fair enough, I am not familiar with that particular wine. But why not just say that outright?

I was addressing a post on that specific wine.

Slaphead07

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

..... what factors do and do not affect the ageing of a wine. I've heard that mainly it's the tannins breaking down that causes it....

It's really the other way around. The cork allows the wine to breath over time and this allows the tannins to soften out and integrate with the wine. Fruits can soften too and acids so it's a little more complex than just tannins.
Bear in mind that many whites can be laid down and they have no tannins at all.