why is dromroe a charity??

kflynn

This is what I was told....could be wrong but doesnt seem like it after a bit of research?

OhMSGlive

kflynn wrote: »

This is what I was told....could be wrong but doesnt seem like it after a bit of research?

Eh? This is the first I've heard of this!

kflynn

Well I was told by one of the staff so....seems kind of strange though, does that not mean all landlords in UL can be charities? Or at least it should mean we would pay less than 120 per week......expensive for charity services...??

kflynn

The purposes for which the company was established are set forth in the memorandum of association of the company and the company has been accorded charitable status for the purposes of sections 333 and 334 of the Income Tax Act, 1967, and it is submitted that in the judgment of the Revenue Commissioners the objects of the company as set out in the memorandum of association are charitable and that the memorandum and articles of association of the company exclude the possibility that any income or profits of the company may be applied to purposes other than those of the charity or so that any benefit may accrue to any person other than genuine objects of the charity. ????

Polar Ice

You're implying that PCC is a charity...?

kflynn

Im saying a staff member told me they were and my previous statement is from a court case Plassey Trust company was involved in....

so it looks like that person was right and I am wondering how on earth Dromroe could justify itself as a charity...IF this is true! The revenue also have information on their website on the tax reliefs they claimed for being a charity

ninty9er

The company's annual report, available in the accommodation office should have all the info you need.

kflynn

Had a look doesnt seem to answer why is it a charity......Could you maybe answer that? Just think it is interesting!

demolitionman

they doing it for tax avoidance purposes like?
i mean, surely it turns a profit for the college?
who owns it in fact?

kflynn

Seems like it

Got some info from this:
http://www.valuation-trib.ie/categories/university/VA89_0_112_127.htm

I just think that 120 is double the price of most other places so how can they be a charity??

I am not making any accusations here, I genuinely do not understand the logic behind it....

Seloth

UL and in fact most colleges in Ireland are classified as charities.

Its because they are non profit but providing a services,and with having such a status are exempt from tax.

We did it quite recently in a module about State sponsored bodies.

kflynn

Oh right, but how can they charge so much then? I just think that a public service implies some sort of 'special service' they are providing for students when in fact they are providing the same service as other landlords but doubling the price!

And if they are not making a profit, how much are management being paid?

I can understand why the university is a charity but not Dromroe Village! Not if they charge that much

Jagle

presumable the amount they charge is to cover costs?

yes dromroe is more expensive, its closer and nicer

kflynn

I cant see a whole lot of investment in Dromroe lately still has all old equipment although there was a bit of painting done over the summer.

Its a bit ridiculous that they can be exempt from taxes yet charge so much in what world would that just cover costs, except for if the wages are dis proportionate.

Who are Dromroe to declare they are giving any better service than that of other landlords??

wnolan1992

kflynn wrote: »

I cant see a whole lot of investment in Dromroe lately still has all old equipment although there was a bit of painting done over the summer.

Its a bit ridiculous that they can be exempt from taxes yet charge so much in what world would that just cover costs, except for if the wages are dis proportionate.

Who are Dromroe to declare they are giving any better service than that of other landlords??

Dromroe included in rent:

• Rent
• Being within a five minute walk of college.
• Electricity.
• Maintenance.
• Village management team, including housekeeping and groundskeepers.
• Refuse collection.
• Security at night.
• TV Licence.
• High speed internet access.

Included in the majority of other landlords rent:

• Rent
• Possibly internet.

It's 120 a week, but if you were to subtract electricity, management fees, refuse collection, TV Licence, etc, it works out about the same as off campus. Maybe slightly dearer, but you've gotta expect that because it's a prime location college-wise.

kflynn

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Dromroe included in rent:

• Rent
• Being within a five minute walk of college.
• Electricity.
• Maintenance.
• Village management team, including housekeeping and groundskeepers.
• Refuse collection.
• Security at night.
• TV Licence.
• High speed internet access.

Included in the majority of other landlords rent:

• Rent
• Possibly internet.

It's 120 a week, but if you were to subtract electricity, management fees, refuse collection, TV Licence, etc, it works out about the same as off campus. Maybe slightly dearer, but you've gotta expect that because it's a prime location college-wise.

Ok Tv license between six people?
Secirtity I ssume is shared with UL
Everyting else would be a bulk buying deal I assume

Anyway my point was of course a company or a landlord can charge what they like but WHY IS DROMROE A CHARITY??

nobody can answer that question.......its like nokia and the iphone, Apple can charge more because it gives you more.....fair enough...but could apple be a charity?

wnolan1992

kflynn wrote: »

Ok Tv license between six people?
Secirtity I ssume is shared with UL
Everyting else would be a bulk buying deal I assume

Bit OT, but it doesn't really matter if they share security with UL, part of the fee we pay no doubt goes to them to cover the five villages, would be unfair to use other student's fees to pay them to patrol D-Rom and the rest.

Anyway my point was of course a company or a landlord can charge what they like but WHY IS DROMROE A CHARITY??

nobody can answer that question.......its like nokia and the iphone, Apple can charge more because it gives you more.....fair enough...but could apple be a charity?

Someone did answer:

Seloth wrote: »

UL and in fact most colleges in Ireland are classified as charities.

Its because they are non profit but providing a services,and with having such a status are exempt from tax.

We did it quite recently in a module about State sponsored bodies.

Also, been reading this link posted earlier: http://www.valuation-trib.ie/categories/university/VA89_0_112_127.htm

Well as best I could, but tbh I got both really lost and a little bored reading through all that legal jargon, but I found this:

It is indisputable that the main buildings are entitled to exemption as being dedicated to or used for public purposes and the situation is, of course, governed by among other cases the University College Cork case [1911] 2 I.R. 593.

So I would presume there is some way they got the villages included in this. Basically, it's a tax thing. (Call it a dodge if you wish)

And I never knew it was a "charity" before today, I always assumed that the "Plassey Trust Company" was just that, a company. I reckon the charity thing is just technicalities.

kflynn

So all landlords can be tax exempt then......woohoo!
Think I will declare myself a charity also.....:D

wnolan1992

kflynn wrote: »

So all landlords can be tax exempt then......woohoo!
Think I will declare myself a charity also.....:D

Probably just landlords that are a division of a University.

kflynn

nope they argued that they make a profit but use it to pay off interest on the loan so if a landlord in college court just covers mortgage payments they are doing the same and they are also providing a public service.......only cheaper

They cant have it every way.......

wnolan1992

kflynn wrote: »

nope they argued that they make a profit but use it to pay off interest on the loan so if a landlord in college court just covers mortgage payments they are doing the same and they are also providing a public service.......only cheaper

They cant have it every way.......

****DISCLAIMER*****: I know nothing about anything, this is just what I think.

I would imagine it's a different situation, seeing as UL are providing a service, I.E. education, and PTC is a part of that. Whereas a landlord in CC is servicing a personal debt(the mortgage).

kflynn

So you could set up a company and mortgage through that?? Every day is a school day......:) Havent got a clue about whats going on thats why I started the tread.......but if they use any profits to invest in UL thats no bad thing! Just seemed to be kept very quiet...

wnolan1992

kflynn wrote: »

So you could set up a company and mortgage through that?? Every day is a school day......:) Havent got a clue about whats going on thats why I started the tread.......but if they use any profits to invest in UL thats no bad thing! Just seemed to be kept very quiet...

I would assume, and again, I know nothing so this could be totally wrong, that if you were to set up a company to carry out a service not for profit, and you mortgage in that companies name, then I'm sure there'd probably some tax exemptions you could avail of.

It certainly is an interesting topic, I wonder where we could get some more information on it? Would be interesting to read I think.

kflynn

Honestly though all the people with negative equity now....IF this is right you could set up a company, pay the mortgage with rent, dont pay tax and wait for it to hopefully come up in value....surely the backs wouldnt mind re arranging the mortgage if they knew it would mean no tax which means more money for them

But it does kind of take away from the meaning of charity, and thats really where my issue is

wnolan1992

kflynn wrote: »

Honestly though all the people with negative equity now....IF this is right you could set up a company, pay the mortgage with rent, dont pay tax and wait for it to hopefully come up in value....surely the backs wouldnt mind re arranging the mortgage if they knew it would mean no tax which means more money for them

But it does kind of take away from the meaning of charity, and thats really where my issue is

Don't be giving the banks ideas on how to avoid paying tax. That's all we need :pac: :pac:

kflynn

I think we need to know where the money is going though....of it is to UL then great! But if its towards wages/expenses then thats different

wnolan1992

kflynn wrote: »

I think we need to know where the money is going though....of it is to UL then great! But if its towards wages/expenses then thats different

I'd say any profit made is put in an account and kept for developments such as the refurbishment of Plassey, the planned refurbishment of Dromroe(thought that was meant to happen over the summer....) and other things. This is just going by the fact is's Plassey Trust Company.

ninty9er

Considering €5million has been spent on Plassey, Dromroe got a furnishings refit this summer as did Kilmurry that would be what much of the surplus accommodates.

Dromroe is not a charity. Plassey Trust Company and Plassey Campus Centre are. It is for historical reasons due to restrictions on Universities in the 80s when they were formed.

A landlord in College Court could of course do the same if they wished to never gain from the property, use all surpluses for charitable purposes and not actually own the property themselves. If you look at the annual report the company has invested heavily in the accommodation and that doesn't come cheap.

Nobody is being forced to live on campus, people do, because generally it offers decent value for money ande peace of mind.

Disclaimer: I am a director of this company, however I am not involved in the day to day operations nor can any of the above be considered the views of the company. They are mine and mine alone.

kflynn

ninty9er wrote: »

Considering €5million has been spent on Plassey, Dromroe got a furnishings refit this summer as did Kilmurry that would be what much of the surplus accommodates.

Dromroe is not a charity. Plassey Trust Company and Plassey Campus Centre are. It is for historical reasons due to restrictions on Universities in the 80s when they were formed.

A landlord in College Court could of course do the same if they wished to never gain from the property, use all surpluses for charitable purposes and not actually own the property themselves. If you look at the annual report the company has invested heavily in the accommodation and that doesn't come cheap.

Nobody is being forced to live on campus, people do, because generally it offers decent value for money ande peace of mind.

Disclaimer: I am a director of this company, however I am not involved in the day to day operations nor can any of the above be considered the views of the company. They are mine and mine alone.

Yes Derek but if its a charity either money should be invested in the college or the villages should be available to every one not just people with a few bob......Otherwise it is not a charity and should pay its taxes like everybody else!

ninty9er

kflynn wrote: »

Yes Derek but if its a charity either money should be invested in the college or the villages should be available to every one not just people with a few bob......Otherwise it is not a charity and should pay its taxes like everybody else!

And that's exactly as it is.

kflynn

Thats exactly what?

Do you give money to the college or
Do are you going to make the villages more accesible for everyone?

Also whay wasnt the C&S money taken from the 5 million?