British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

ejmaztec

KeithAFC wrote: »

Just bought more poppies. Always good to give to a good cause and to remember our fallen volunteers.

What about the poor conscriptees, don't they get a look in?

Morlar

ejmaztec wrote: »

What about the poor conscriptees, don't they get a look in?

He means the UVF.

LondonIrish90

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Wow 550 replies and it is only the first of november. The remembrance period has really touched the hearts of After Hours this year!

Many poppies already being worn in London today which is nice to see as the real drive to sell them hasn't got underway yet (3rd and 4th of November the TA and veterans hit the stations etc)

Dozen Wicked Words

Yes (I'm Irish)

Is this the same thread as last year/year before/year before/year before, or has there been some new information that has come to light?

Personally I don't object if people wish to wear the poppy, but also don't mind if they would prefer not to. The poppy fascism that the Daily Mail and the like foists upon us (and has probably been mentioned in this thread, if not, check previous years, its definitely there) makes me inclined not to wear one.

Poll needs more don't mind either way.

gurramok

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Many poppies already being worn in London today which is nice to see as the real drive to sell them hasn't got underway yet (3rd and 4th of November the TA and veterans hit the stations etc)

Good for you. Nice that Ireland has her own army and no foreign army in Dublin for the last 90 years.

tfitzgerald

No (I'm Irish)

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wouldn't call it lonely. Over 25,000 men were killed on the first day of the Somme.

And we get upset about 9/11.

Of course it was a lonely death everybody faces it alone

laoch na mona

KeithAFC wrote: »

Just bought more poppies. Always good to give to a good cause and to remember our fallen volunteers.

i was wondering where keith was not like him to miss a thread like this

Fratton Fred

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wouldn't call it lonely. Over 25,000 men were killed on the first day of the Somme.

And we get upset about 9/11.

Of course it was a lonely death everybody faces it alone

Do they? I guess we all find out eventualy

tfitzgerald

No (I'm Irish)

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do they? I guess we all find out eventualy

We'll sorry Fred , I'm not holding your hand

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Bambi wrote: »

Very true. Portugal remanined neutral also, I guess someone does'nt know their history

i said most countries,i quess some people dont read the threads,

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Bambi wrote: »

Will he be wearing his little poppy?

It's only right that the president of the republic should attend, show there's no hard feelings...accept victory with good grace etc etc

no bambi the reason he may be there [in the church of ireland church] is to remember the irishmen who died in the two world wars, but i take it you dont care

bobbysands81

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Possibly. Again it sounds like a court should decide that.

Shooting a 12 year old girl carrying milk home from the shop is an act of terrorism according to yourself. Ergo, the British Army are terrorists.

I would agree that the British in the 06 were terrorists as they ruled using terror.

Fratton Fred

Where's the "06"? Do you mean Northern Ireland?

We've been through this before. You obviously have a short memory or wish to go through the same pointless discussion we had yesterday.

ejmaztec

I see that Julian Assange is wearing a poppy. If it's good enough for him, it must be good enough for anybody.









:pac:

bobbysands81

Fratton Fred wrote: »

We've been through this before. You obviously have a short memory or wish to go through the same pointless discussion we had yesterday.

Sum it up for me so...

Using your own definition of terrorism (or any other one) do you believe the British Army are terrorists?

old hippy

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Sum it up for me so...

Using your own definition of terrorism (or any other one) do you believe the British Army are terrorists?

That's a very good question. I would say by their actions in NI and elsewhere in the world they have certainly visited terror on the local populations - usually for the cause of the so-called greater good. Having said that, for me the blame lies more with the establishment and top brass rather than your standard grunt who probably has little understanding of the politics. In my view.

The paramilitaries on both "sides" are also misguidedly in it for the greater good and protecting the community. Like the security forces, they are self important, self appointed warlords bringing misery and terror to those they claim to protect. In my view.

shannon_tek

I got given out to for bringing one back. so i take it the Irish told me to sh g off with it that they dont live in the UK

old hippy

shannon_tek wrote: »

I got given out to for bringing one back. so i take it the Irish told me to sh g off with it that they dont live in the UK

Was that in Tescos?

shannon_tek

old hippy wrote: »

Was that in Tescos?

No i brought it from the uk home

Noffles

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Never surprised to see these threads... Every year the same... Depressingly predictable... Will wear a poppy for the office next week... If asked why, its personal and **** all to do with them.

old hippy

Good for you. If the fascists want to harrumph and moan about whether one wears/doesn't wear a poppy/lilly; sod 'em. It's down to personal choice.

LeixlipRed

After 39 pages has anyone effectively made the case that it's never ok for poor kids to die in a field somewhere on rich peoples' whims? That is, and always will be, the only argument against wearing the poppy.

Morlar

LeixlipRed wrote: »

. . . . . ok for poor kids to die in a field somewhere on rich peoples' whims? That is, and always will be, the only argument against wearing the poppy.

Nonsense. Read the thread.

jonnny68

Must be all west brits voting yes :rolleyes: how about the British all wear Easter Lilys on Easter Sunday eh :eek::rolleyes:

Latchy

No (I'm Irish)

Noffles wrote: »

Never surprised to see these threads... Every year the same... Depressingly predictable... Will wear a poppy for the office next week... If asked why, its personal and **** all to do with them.

They come around at easter and christmas ....every year

British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

Simple answer is many Irish in ireland ,UK and around the world have done and will continue to do , including ex-members of the defence forces ( IUNVA/IDFV-UK) who march alongside british ex-servicemens associations on regimental parades in London in June and rememberence sunday in November ,some who will also have served in the British forces as well as the Irish Defence Forces and have been doing so for many years now .

FetchTheGin

:eek:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1103/poppy.html

Two 17-year-old youths and a 16-year-old boy have been charged with incitement to hatred in Northern Ireland.
The charges follow the publication of a photograph on a social networking site which allegedly shows individuals burning a poppy.
The alleged incident was reported to the police earlier this week.
The 16-year-old was also charged with improper use of a social networking site.
All three appeared before Coleraine Magistrates Court in Derry this morning.

FFS! Isn't a court appearance a bit much? Sure they are idiots but getting a criminal conviction for it?! Christ!

LeixlipRed

Morlar wrote: »

Nonsense. Read the thread.

Nah, I've read it every year. People say, "oh but it's the soldiers we're commemorating". But you're not, you're celebrating war, imperialism, etc,. Mourn the passing of the millions who've died fighting in pointless wars yes, wear poppies no.

Latchy

No (I'm Irish)

FetchTheGin wrote: »

:eek:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1103/poppy.html



FFS! Isn't a court appearance a bit much? Sure they are idiots but getting a criminal conviction for it?! Christ!

There are different ways of drawing attention to yourself ( like mooning from a car ) but they choose to to do something that was going to draw attention and offend many ...silly sods .

FetchTheGin

Latchy wrote: »

There are different ways of drawing attention to yourself ( like mooning from a car ) but they choose to to do something that was going to draw attention and offend many ...silly sods .

Do you think it warrants arrest and a court appearance?

Morlar

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Nah, I've read it every year. People say, "oh but it's the soldiers we're commemorating". But you're not, you're celebrating war, imperialism, etc,. Mourn the passing of the millions who've died fighting in pointless wars yes, wear poppies no.

I think you could have been clearer in your post. I am not advocating Irish people should wear it either.

ejmaztec

FetchTheGin wrote: »

Do you think it warrants arrest and a court appearance?

Perhaps they were opium poppies.

FetchTheGin

ejmaztec wrote: »

Perhaps they were opium poppies.

LOL

Incitement to hatred of junkies.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Nah, I've read it every year. People say, "oh but it's the soldiers we're commemorating". But you're not, you're celebrating war, imperialism, etc,. Mourn the passing of the millions who've died fighting in pointless wars yes, wear poppies no.

the poppy is not political, its just about remembering those who gave up their lives ,sons husbands brothers uncles they never came back from the front,and yes many irishmen died in the wars,and the ones who joined up in the first world war,went with the blessing of all the irish political parties,and when they came back the irish people turned against them ,

Latchy

No (I'm Irish)

FetchTheGin wrote: »

Do you think it warrants arrest and a court appearance?

Well I haven't seen the video to pass judgement on weather it warrents arrest but by burning the poppy and displaying it on the web as mentioned, they broke the law regarding misuse of social network sites besides any cause of offence .

Morlar

getz wrote: »

the poppy is not political, its just about remembering those who gave up their lives ,sons husbands brothers uncles they never came back from the front,and yes many irishmen died in the wars,and the ones who joined up in the first world war,went with the blessing of all the irish political parties,and when they came back the irish people turned against them ,

If that was ALL this was about there would not be a problem.

Dublin_Gunner

FetchTheGin wrote: »

:eek:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1103/poppy.html



FFS! Isn't a court appearance a bit much? Sure they are idiots but getting a criminal conviction for it?! Christ!

Were they not just trying to smoke it?

Drumcondra Mafia

LeixlipRed wrote: »

After 39 pages has anyone effectively made the case that it's never ok for poor kids to die in a field somewhere on rich peoples' whims? That is, and always will be, the only argument against wearing the poppy.

Defining the Second World War like that is too simplistic.

Latchy

No (I'm Irish)

Drumcondra Mafia wrote: »

Defining the Second World War like that is too simplistic.

First world war more like it which is were the poppy origins came from although it's now worn to remember the fallen in all conflicts and wars including southern ireland

Dublin_Gunner

Latchy wrote: »

First world war more like it which is were the poppy origins came from although it's now worn to remember the fallen in all conflicts and wars including southern ireland

I'm pretty sure it doesn't just mean the munster region.

Latchy

No (I'm Irish)

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it doesn't just mean the munster region.

Oh it does actully , just as many men from Munster as well as Leinster,Connaught and Ulster joined the british forces in both major wars as well as after and you can go back to further to Napoleonic times to find southern Irishmen in the ranks of the British . On poppy day parade in London you'll find plenty of men from the Munster region .The Queen laid a wreath at garden of rememberence in honour of all irishmen who died abroad and in Ireland (including those who fought against British rule in ireland )

Dublin_Gunner

Latchy wrote: »

Oh it does actully , just as many men from Munster as well as Leinster,Connaught and Ulster joined the british forces in both major wars as well as after and you can go back to further to Napoleonic times to find southern Irishmen in the ranks of the British . On poppy day parade in London you'll find plenty of men from the Munster region .

Eh, exactly my point.

Only Munster would be considered 'southern' Ireland. If you mean the 'Republic' of Ireland (which includes, east, west, and south) well then that's the term you should use.

Latchy

No (I'm Irish)

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Eh, exactly my point.

Only Munster would be considered 'southern' Ireland. If you mean the 'Republic' of Ireland (which includes, east, west, and south) well then that's the term you should use.

We are talking provinces , Leinster and Connaught are also part of 'southern Ireland ' .

Dublin_Gunner

Latchy wrote: »

We are talking provinces , Leinster and Connaught are also part of 'southern Ireland ' .

I think you're being a little slow today. There is no such place as 'Southern Ireland'.

Northern Ireland is called that, because that's the country's name. The other 26 counties occupy a country called 'the Republic of Ireland'.

'Southern' Ireland would mean somewhere south, like Munster for instance.

Maybe we should start calling England, 'Southern Scotland'?

Leftist

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Maybe we should start calling England, 'Southern Scotland'?

Stupid point.

Dublin_Gunner

Leftist wrote: »

Stupid point.

No different to calling the RoI 'Southern Ireland'.

Leftist

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

No different to calling the RoI 'Southern Ireland'.

Vastly different. There are two irish states, one is called northern ireland, for a foreigner to assume the other is known as southern ireland is perfectly reasonable even if inaccurate.

Southern Scotland indeed.

Latchy

No (I'm Irish)

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I think you're being a little slow today. There is no such place as 'Southern Ireland'.

Northern Ireland is called that, because that's the country's name. The other 26 counties occupy a country called 'the Republic of Ireland'.

'Southern' Ireland would mean somewhere south, like Munster for instance.

?

Slow ? jasus ....

So you like to split hairs to about a term of reference to describe a place ie , southern Ireland which if a foreigner (that's non Irish to you ) should ask the difference between the north and south of ireland ...I can't use ? Heaven forbid I should call it Eire

Maybe we should start calling England, 'Southern Scotland' ?

call it what ya loike

G'day mate....

Leftist wrote: »

Vastly different. There are two irish states, one is called northern ireland, for a foreigner to assume the other is known as southern ireland is perfectly reasonable even if inaccurate.

Southern Scotland indeed.

My point exactly !

old hippy

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

No different to calling the RoI 'Southern Ireland'.

The Republic of Ireland and NI are two different countries.

LordSutch

No (I'm Irish)

Indeed, and the poppy is worn in both, with the proceeds in the Republic going to Dublin, and the proceeds in NI going to London.

philologos

No (I'm Irish)

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Wow 550 replies and it is only the first of november. The remembrance period has really touched the hearts of After Hours this year!

Many poppies already being worn in London today which is nice to see as the real drive to sell them hasn't got underway yet (3rd and 4th of November the TA and veterans hit the stations etc)

They were out in the City today from Liverpool St station right along to the Monument.

I think it is good to see people taking the time out to think about the dead at war.

LeixlipRed wrote: »

After 39 pages has anyone effectively made the case that it's never ok for poor kids to die in a field somewhere on rich peoples' whims? That is, and always will be, the only argument against wearing the poppy.

Who said that was the reason behind wearing it?

The reason for many people as has been highlighted in this thread is to commemorate the dead at war irrespective of what side they are on. I think there is value to that. You mightn't. Fair enough.