British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

ejmaztec

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm sure that ejmaztec should be in here somewhere.

There's more chance of you being in the poppy field than my trusting my eyes to that shower.:P

gurramok

ejmaztec wrote: »

There's more chance of you being in the poppy field than my trusting my eyes to that shower.:P

Thats not you saying they're not pretty to the eye?:D Specs are sexy, thats the message from specsavers with the gorgeous models on their page

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Dionysus wrote: »

But, but Keith, I thought the red poppy was being sold by many of its proponents as an international symbol commemorating all those people who died in war?

If it were merely being sold as a British symbol and not as an apolitical symbol then it would be a different matter. It would then be just an upfront honest-to-goodness tribal commemoration of a particular community's wars with no apolitical airs and graces. I would respect that honesty, if nothing else about it.

Who really cares? I don't see why so many people get the knickers in a twist on the poppy anyway.

Paparazzo

Would I wear one? Not a chance.
Would I be offended if someone wore one? Not a chance.

Dionysus

ejmaztec wrote: »

There's more chance of you being in the poppy field than my trusting my eyes to that shower.:P

That's anti-British! Specsavers for the cheapo cheapskate eye examination and online for all the dirt cheap contact lenes.

A Dub in Glasgo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Who really cares? I don't see why so many people get the knickers in a twist on the poppy anyway.

Apparantly those who wear a red poppy. A cursory look at this thread and previous threads will show that they are mainly started by people who want to know if they are morally, accurately or just plain right in wearing a red poppy to remember members of the British forces this time of year.

passarellaie

As some posters have said most of the Irish who served in the "British" army in world war 1 has no choice let their families starve or join up.This is emphasized today when i see West Dumbartonshire MP Ms Doyle is going to the "Falklands/Malvinas because no less than 17000 of her constituents work in the "British" Defence forces.This shows how the peripheral parts of the "Union" are still kept in poverty to ensure they serve her majestys forces.
So i reckon this debate will be going on in Scotland soon after Salmond acheives independence

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Apparantly those who wear a red poppy. A cursory look at this thread and previous threads will show that they are mainly started by people who want to know if they are morally, accurately or just plain right in wearing a red poppy to remember members of the British forces this time of year.

All I seem to find is people who don't want to wear one moaning about it. Wear one if you want. Free choice and all that.

A Dub in Glasgo

passarellaie wrote: »

As some posters have said most of the Irish who served in the "British" army in world war 1 has no choice let their families starve or join up.This is emphasized today when i see West Dumbartonshire MP Ms Doyle is going to the "Falklands/Malvinas because no less than 17000 of her constituents work in the "British" Defence forces.This shows how the peripheral parts of the "Union" are still kept in poverty to ensure they serve her majestys forces.
So i reckon this debate will be going on in Scotland soon after Salmond acheives independence

Most of those work in the WoMD site at Faslane

A Dub in Glasgo

KeithAFC wrote: »

All I seem to find is people who don't want to wear one moaning about it. Wear one if you want. Free choice and all that.

Look at the threads started on this site and you will see those who eant to wear the red poppy and ask is it Ok / why Irish people do not.

KeithAFC

No (I'm British/not Irish)

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Look at the threads started on this site and you will see those who eant to wear the red poppy and ask is it Ok / why Irish people do not.

Of course it is OK though. Why do these threads reach 50+ pages?

A Dub in Glasgo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Of course it is OK though. Why do these threads reach 50+ pages?

I can only assume that

1. Wearing a red poppy is a personal decision that does not need the collective of Boards.ie to endorse therefore people assume the person asking if it is OK is grandstanding

2. The person is trolling

passarellaie

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Most of those work in the WoMD site at Faslane

and

A Dub in Glasgo

passarellaie wrote: »

and

it would not be a great loss if it closed

Badgermonkey

No (I'm Irish)

Dionysus wrote: »

In fairness, you're in After Hours as usual - it's not like you're off in some zen yoga-flying forum chillin'. You wouldn't be here unless you had plenty of "chips" on your own shoulder.

I enjoy AH, fun and entertaining, guessing that's why most folks engage with it.

Some have a hard-on for the squabble, that's OK too.

You've said you forgot to include me in your OP, the inference surely being that I also

expect Irish people to accept their political symbols without question and get rather defensive when they don't.

Now, if you can show a single instance of that from me, it would be appreciated.

Dionysus wrote: »

Or are you just here to express the chip on your shoulder by using cliché after cliché and stereotyping posters with whom you disagree?

A cliche to me is like a red rag to a bull.

Avoid 'em like the plague.

Dionysus wrote: »

you launch an ad hominem

And that one's the thinking mans blast 'em..............

Dionysus wrote: »

But you only start the personal attacks when I attack somebody/something which you support.

Ah now, let's not engage in faux victimhood Dionysus.

You name-checked a number of fellow posters in your OP, presumably in an effort to belittle them. Had you simply wished to poo-poo their opinions, the name and shame would surely have been superfluous.

Dionysus wrote: »

nowadays you will get just as much if not more nastiness in threads on Ahern, Fianna Fáil, the Catholic Church and the EU among other things.

Where the majority of posters tend to be in agreement with one another. Contrasts more than somewhat with threads on the British Isles / Queens visit / Bobby Sands etc.

ejmaztec

Dionysus wrote: »

That's anti-British! Specsavers for the cheapo cheapskate eye examination and online for all the dirt cheap contact lenes.

With an optometrist in the family, one doesn't use conveyor-belt specs.:P

Anyway, if Specsavers were pro-British, they wouldn't be based in the Channel Islands, and paying as little UK tax as possible.

passarellaie

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

it would not be a great loss if it closed

But tell me are there 17000 working for the defence ministry in the whole of London?
Does it not tell you why so many poor Irish people had to join the "British" armed forces in the days of "empire"

A Dub in Glasgo

passarellaie wrote: »

But tell me are there 17000 working for the defence ministry in the whole of London?
Does it not tell you why so many poor Irish people had to join the "British" armed forces in the days of "empire"

There are not 17,000 working for the defence ministry in West Dumbartonshire and no it does not explain why people had to join the British armed forces in the days of the empire

jpm4

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Donkeys.



It bemuses me how British politicians and British Generals of WW1 seem to emerge blamless for sending reams of young men to their almost certain deaths in foreign feilds.

Not only did they get away with it but they've managed to turn what was a horrific waste of life, by anyones standards, into some sort of national achievement.

This is an overly simplistic, Blackadder style view of the WW1 generals which few enough credible historians still subscribe to. "Their almost certain death"? Would it disappoint you to know that most of them would have come home alive?

Wolfe Tone

No, why would I want to commemorate that murderous, imperialistic scum?


Easter Lily for me.

My name is URL

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

No, why would I want to commemorate that murderous, imperialistic scum?


Easter Lily for me.

To commemorate the murderous anti-imperialist scum.

I'm going to pin a goldfish to my collar in commemoration of how utterly absurd wearing any flower is =p

LondonIrish90

No (I'm British/not Irish)

passarellaie wrote: »

As some posters have said most of the Irish who served in the "British" army in world war 1 has no choice let their families starve or join up.This is emphasized today when i see West Dumbartonshire MP Ms Doyle is going to the "Falklands/Malvinas because no less than 17000 of her constituents work in the "British" Defence forces.This shows how the peripheral parts of the "Union" are still kept in poverty to ensure they serve her majestys forces.
So i reckon this debate will be going on in Scotland soon after Salmond acheives independence

What in god's name are the British Defence Forces?

This old topic again, same old faces, same old comments. And we are still over a week away from November - the obsession grows by the year!

Anyway, I'm sure I said this last year but why the hell would you care what people want to do? If people wear a poppy it must mean something to them. If that was the case then you have no right to question their decision. Don't wear one yourself or wear a lily instead if you wish, thats about as far as this topic should go.

Same old derision, same old begrudgers (wolfe tone just got his opening insult in early i see). Its not a case of asking them to move forwards, its more about asking them to stop moving back.

Wolfe Tone

My name is URL wrote: »

To commemorate the murderous anti-imperialist scum.

I'm going to pin a goldfish to my collar in commemoration of how utterly absurd wearing any flower is =p

Poor goldfish

jugger0

The British army fought in Ireland against the Irish... im sorry but any Irish person who wears the poppy is an embarrassment.

As for the WW1 thing, we were used as cannon fodder by our worst enemy, the British empire, against the Germans who if i remember correctly had never invaded or occupied our country.

K-9

I like the idea of a National Heroes day, as long as AH doesn't decide, nobody would earn it.

John Hume would surely be the first through without a naysayer and begrudger.

ejmaztec

jugger0 wrote: »

The British army fought in Ireland against the Irish... im sorry but any Irish person who wears the poppy is an embarrassment.

As for the WW1 thing, we were used as cannon fodder by our worst enemy, the British empire, against the Germans who if i remember correctly had never invaded or occupied our country.

Not until 2010 anyway.:(

Micky Dolenz

charlemont wrote: »

Your knowledge of history is outstanding.

Thanks. I'd like to think so.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

I like the idea of a National Heroes day, as long as AH doesn't decide, nobody would earn it.

John Hume would surely be the first through without a naysayer and begrudger.

eh???

Seriously !!!! Can't believe you even said that.......AH come on !!!!!! seriously !!!!

kowloon

Kranium wrote: »

I dont like the idea of contestants on Xfactor having to wear them

Should be forced to wear a pork chop in honour of their tradition of butchering music.

Armin_Tamzarian

FetchTheGin wrote: »

I would rather not commemorate an empire responsible for the destruction of my country

Nobody is asking you to commemorate Fianna Fáil.

hangon

No (I'm Irish)

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Nobody is asking you to commemorate Fianna Fáil.

Can you buy Poppies in the shape of a Tiger?

drumaneen

No (I'm Irish)

hangon wrote: »

Can you buy Poppies in the shape of a Tiger?

I don't think so but you can as a shamrock

arybvtcw0eolkf

No (I'm Irish)

jugger0 wrote: »

The British army fought in Ireland against the Irish... im sorry but any Irish person who wears the poppy is an embarrassment.

And I and my comrades have served alongside them in Beirut, Bosnia, Kosova, Afghanistan, Kuwait to name but a few.

My grandfather fought with the 9th Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusillers in WWI.

In the last 10 years I'm also an SF voter and I'm voting MMG number one in the presidental elections.

I've worn a poppy, and I won't shy away from people like you should I decide to wear one again.

Armin_Tamzarian

Stefan Weak Paw wrote: »

And I and my comrades have served alongside them in Beirut, Bosnia, Kosova, Afghanistan, Kuwait to name but a few.

Have Irish soldiers served in Afghanistan and Kuwait?

flanum

its not over yet lads... the nazis are in space.. get ready...iron sky!!

policarp

No (I'm Irish)

The Poppy is mainly for WW1 and WW2 veterans.
Help for Heroes is for Iraq and Afghanistan wounded or dead.
So poppy collections are of benefit to the older soldiers AFAIK.

A Dub in Glasgo

^^ That is not true. The red poppy is for all members of the British Armed Forces

http://www.poppy.org.uk/

A Dub in Glasgo

Duplicate

philologos

No (I'm Irish)

This question is a little loaded. I voted yes, but the reason why I will be wearing it if I get a chance will be to commemorate the war dead in general rather than those of a particular country.

arybvtcw0eolkf

No (I'm Irish)

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Have Irish soldiers served in Afghanistan and Kuwait?

Yes, and we still have a very small detachment serving in Kabul, Afghanistan.

Armin_Tamzarian

Stefan Weak Paw wrote: »

Yes, and we still have a very small detachment serving in Kabul, Afghanistan.

Well, that's a new one to me.
I find it surprising though, how does that fit in with Ireland's supposed neutrality?

drumaneen

No (I'm Irish)

philologos wrote: »

..... I will be wearing it if I get a chance .....

If you don't see a street seller you can call in to the RBL ROI office at 26 South Frederick Street, Dublin 2 who will be glad to help.

ALSO BY POST:The nice peeps at the Limerick RBL will post you poppies for the cost of the postage and any donation to the Irish Poppy Appeal using their PayPal facility.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

jugger0 wrote: »

The British army fought in Ireland against the Irish... im sorry but any Irish person who wears the poppy is an embarrassment.

As for the WW1 thing, we were used as cannon fodder by our worst enemy, the British empire, against the Germans who if i remember correctly had never invaded or occupied our country.

in the words of the irish national anthem , saxon foe,just what have the germans done to you ?if that is what you think of your friends,god help your enemies,i will have on my canadian poppy ,

ash23

I voted no but only because of the word "should".
I have no issue with someone wanting to wear one.

However, I think the in the UK, particularly the media, it's expected that someone would wear one. If someone chooses not to wear one it should be respected as much as if someone chooses to wear one.

But I do think that the British take someone not wearing a poppy as an "up yours" and it can evoke a lot of negative reactions.
I doubt any Irish person would notice if dem on de telly weren't wearing shamrock on Paddys day.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

ash23 wrote: »

I voted no but only because of the word "should".
I have no issue with someone wanting to wear one.

However, I think the in the UK, particularly the media, it's expected that someone would wear one. If someone chooses not to wear one it should be respected as much as if someone chooses to wear one.

But I do think that the British take someone not wearing a poppy as an "up yours" and it can evoke a lot of negative reactions.
I doubt any Irish person would notice if dem on de telly weren't wearing shamrock on Paddys day.

its not only the UK that wears the poppy to commemerate their dead,many commonwealth countries,as well as the USA,use it.only those who know no better believe that people in the UK are expected to wear one,most young people do not bother simply because they do not feel any connection to WW1 and WW11,as i noticed last year only one in five had one on,i could suggest not to read and believe the english newspaper crap, the general trend is that if you are in the media/TV ect it doesent do any harm to show compassion for that countries dead,it doesent mean that they believe it.

Tiocfaidh Armani

getz wrote: »

its not only the UK that wears the poppy to commemerate their dead,many commonwealth countries,as well as the USA,use it.

Eh, the USA don't wear poppies, where did you read this?

ash23

getz wrote: »

its not only the UK that wears the poppy to commemerate their dead,many commonwealth countries,as well as the USA,use it.only those who know no better believe that people in the UK are expected to wear one,most young people do not bother simply because they do not feel any connection to WW1 and WW11,as i noticed last year only one in five had one on,i could suggest not to read and believe the english newspaper crap, the general trend is that if you are in the media/TV ect it doesent do any harm to show compassion for that countries dead,it doesent mean that they believe it.

My problem is more with the furore when someone opts out.
There have been a number of people who have expressed the pressure they were put under to wear one, particularly those in the media.
It doesn't bother me a bit if someone wants to wear one. But nobody should be pressured into wearing one. And the issues if they don't.

If someone wants to wear it, let them. If they don't, there shouldn't be a fuss made of that either.

Tiocfaidh Armani

All this talk of honouring another countries dead, a country we have a bit of a past with and there’s a shockingly low amount of people who wear the lily to honour the men and women of 1916. Maybe we should honour our own first before we think of honouring a nations dead that denied us our own freedom while fighting to preserve their own empire.

Judgement Day

Niles wrote: »

Neither would I, it's the individual Irish people who fought that I think should be the focus of the commemoration. If that's the case then I have no problem.



Not necessarily, it's not as though the British used Irish regiments during Easter 1916.

According to Ireland's Unknown Soldiers by Terence Denman, reserve battalions from the 3rd Royal Irish Regiment, 3rd Royal Irish Rifles, 4th, 5th & 10th Dublin Fusiliers and 5th Leinsters were involved in the early days of the fighting in Dublin and 35 men from Irish regiments died during the Rising.

Anyway, the whole topic is nonsensical, we will all continue to commemorate our own traditions regardless of attempted media hijacking of the events.

drumaneen

No (I'm Irish)

In 1918 French YMCA Secretary, Madame Guerin, first introduced the idea of selling red silk poppies to raise money for those affected by war. This was taken up by the UK, USA and many Commonwealth countries (an ALLIED symbol might be more accurate description).
For example, the first shipment of poppies to Australia was in 1921, they were made by war widows and orphans from some of the most devastated regions of France. and poppies are still sold there - see http://www.facebook.com/pages/Poppy-Appeal-Australia-111111-likes-by-111111/258976677458098?sk=wall if you don't believe me.
The Poppy is NOT, repeat NOT a political symbol. It is not affiliated to any State.
The Poppy is about the loss, the very people, the sacrifice upon which the democratic Europe we Irish enjoy today is founded. Ireland contributed in full measure with the blood of our own men or sons of our men in many Allied uniforms. That any person would want to spit on this symbol (an earlier comment) turns my blood cold and I want to cower in shame that the people of the world can read such comments that are made here year after year.
Irish people have a debt of honour both to the men who fought to establish the Republic AND to the 60,000 of their countrymen who fell in the world wars - even the Queen of England acknowledges this. I plead with you to wear your Lily at Easter and wear the Poppy now - wear it proudly - let us honour our debts to a generation of brave Irish boys by remembering those who fell and caring for those who survived and their families.