British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

ash23 wrote: »

My problem is more with the furore when someone opts out.
There have been a number of people who have expressed the pressure they were put under to wear one, particularly those in the media.
It doesn't bother me a bit if someone wants to wear one. But nobody should be pressured into wearing one. And the issues if they don't.

If someone wants to wear it, let them. If they don't, there shouldn't be a fuss made of that either.

what a load of crap,in the UK there are some 58 million people living,last year only 26 million poppies sold,and many of them will have been bought more than once by the same people,it may also be of interest to you that in birmingham city centre they cannot this year sell the poppy on the streets ,does that sound like a media pressure ?,as i said before most of the younger generation just dont want to know,only some irish seem to want to make a big deal out of it,i wear one because i can relate to all my irish ancestors who died,but i bet my son and his descendants dont.

ash23

getz wrote: »

what a load of crap,in the UK there are some 58 million people living,last year only 26 million poppies sold,and many of them will have been bought more than once by the same people,it may also be of interest to you that in birmingham city centre they cannot this year sell the poppy on the streets ,does that sound like a media pressure ?,as i said before most of the younger generation just dont want to know,only some irish seem to want to make a big deal out of it,i wear one because i can relate to all my irish ancestors who died,but i bet my son and his descendants dont.

You'll note that I said about people in the media. Not people in general.
It is frowned upon for someone in the media not to wear one and it does cause controversy.
So like I said, if people want to, let them. If not then don't force the issue.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

ash23 wrote: »

You'll note that I said about people in the media. Not people in general.
It is frowned upon for someone in the media not to wear one and it does cause controversy.
So like I said, if people want to, let them. If not then don't force the issue.

then do not go on BRITISH media, if i was on the media in any country i would observe their anthems customs ect,its called respect,[very little of it around today],if you are not prepared to do that in anothers country ,dont complain when you get other peoples back up.

Spiderman123

Yes (I'm Irish)

KeithAFC wrote: »

Don't see why not. The 16th Irish division was a great division.

Turkeys you mean. They got mowed down like turkeys as they tried to charge down the German machine guns with their bodies the eejits.

Spiderman123

Yes (I'm Irish)

getz wrote: »

then do not go on BRITISH media, if i was on the media in any country i would observe their anthems customs ect,its called respect,[very little of it around today],if you are not prepared to do that in anothers country ,dont complain when you get other peoples back up.

Listen Fred, if their so stupid to go out and get maimed for a govt that would'nt look after them when they come home - well that's their tough luck isn't it ! Their's enough beggars on the streets without the Brits joining in :rolleyes:

ash23

getz wrote: »

then do not go on BRITISH media, if i was on the media in any country i would observe their anthems customs ect,its called respect,[very little of it around today],if you are not prepared to do that in anothers country ,dont complain when you get other peoples back up.

Meh whatever. Like I said I wouldn't have a problem with someone not wearing the shamrock on Irish tv. Equally I don't see the problem with someone choosing not to wear a poppy on British tv. no need for anyone to get their backs up.

ejmaztec

Spot the low-post-count re-reg.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Spiderman123 wrote: »

Listen Fred, if their so stupid to go out and get maimed for a govt that would'nt look after them when they come home - well that's their tough luck isn't it ! Their's enough beggars on the streets without the Brits joining in :rolleyes:

I can't agree with that enough. I live in Britain and the hard-on people get for militarism makes me shudder.

The people who largely join it are lacking in the brains department and couldn't get a job stacking shelves in Tesco. It's not 1939 anymore, Europe is at peace, the British Army now are stooges for their governments interests around the world and basically you're there to intervene with whatever oil-rich country that allegedly needs their help. There's nothing heroic about it. They're mercenaries in other words and trained killers who don't have a get track record of treating the locals well wherever they go, yet we the Irish people should support them and their wounded when their own government who sends them on their jaunts around the world don't?!

No chance, there is a lot more worthy cause to help. They're not even worthy of help. Anyone who joins the British Army now cannot be so stupid to know what it entails and the lack of honour in their wars.

Wile E. Coyote

Bloody hell is it that time of year already. Yes they should be remembered but not with the poppy.

ejmaztec

The annual soap-box-vitriol-fest where no-one on either side can convince anyone on the other side that they're talking horse-sh1t.:pac:

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

I can't agree with that enough. I live in Britain and the hard-on people get for militarism makes me shudder.

The people who largely join it are lacking in the brains department and couldn't get a job stacking shelves in Tesco. It's not 1939 anymore, Europe is at peace, the British Army now are stooges for their governments interests around the world and basically you're there to intervene with whatever oil-rich country that allegedly needs their help. There's nothing heroic about it. They're mercenaries in other words and trained killers who don't have a get track record of treating the locals well wherever they go, yet we the Irish people should support them and their wounded when their own government who sends them on their jaunts around the world don't?!

No chance, there is a lot more worthy cause to help. They're not even worthy of help. Anyone who joins the British Army now cannot be so stupid to know what it entails and the lack of honour in their wars.

you live and make a living in britain ? why ? after that rant .two words ,sectarian,dinosaur

sheesh

I think it is quiet simple. If you are irish and someone in your family was in the war then maybe you should consider wearing the poppy. Otherwise It has nothing to do with you.


BTW a friend of mine is a distant relation of lord haw haw who was hung for treason by the british at the end of the war. should he wear the poppy too?

ejmaztec

getz wrote: »

you live and make a living in britain ? why ? after that rant .two words ,sectarian,dinosaur

...better not tell him where some of his UK taxes are going.

Nodin

getz wrote: »

you live and make a living in britain ? why ? after that rant .two words ,sectarian,dinosaur

You might explain what the first of those two words has to do with his comment.

baltimore sun

No (I'm Irish)

Green poppy?

LordSutch

No (I'm Irish)

Poppies are Red.

ejmaztec

LordSutch wrote: »

Poppies are Red.

Violets are blue

baltimore sun

No (I'm Irish)

LordSutch wrote: »

Poppies are Red.

Unless they are blue, :eek:
http://hankinslawrenceimages.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/blue_poppies_7555.jpg?w=600&h=537
or white :eek:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQoucy7gKjkw8gVDAg57qcgsnDlZBUv-YNavqa1LiBvsNeHy-qzkw
or orange :eek:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQH_49ogDMcgIduA1g4JkeMtu833XkCPHMOlGN4qVD4J-gK4cJ4cg

Immaculate Pasta

Yes (I'm Irish)

baltimore sun wrote: »

Unless they are blue, :eek:
http://hankinslawrenceimages.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/blue_poppies_7555.jpg?w=600&h=537
or white :eek:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQoucy7gKjkw8gVDAg57qcgsnDlZBUv-YNavqa1LiBvsNeHy-qzkw
or orange :eek:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQH_49ogDMcgIduA1g4JkeMtu833XkCPHMOlGN4qVD4J-gK4cJ4cg

Blatant photoshop :cool:

Fratton Fred

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

I can't agree with that enough. I live in Britain and the hard-on people get for militarism makes me shudder.

The people who largely join it are lacking in the brains department and couldn't get a job stacking shelves in Tesco. It's not 1939 anymore, Europe is at peace, the British Army now are stooges for their governments interests around the world and basically you're there to intervene with whatever oil-rich country that allegedly needs their help. There's nothing heroic about it. They're mercenaries in other words and trained killers who don't have a get track record of treating the locals well wherever they go, yet we the Irish people should support them and their wounded when their own government who sends them on their jaunts around the world don't?!

No chance, there is a lot more worthy cause to help. They're not even worthy of help. Anyone who joins the British Army now cannot be so stupid to know what it entails and the lack of honour in their wars.

I'd like to see you explain that post to Makikomi face to face.

Tgis "Hard on" as you put that the British have for their military is something the Irish should take note of tbh.

The fact that most of the country has no idea that the Irish army is carrying out UN sanctioned work in Chad, Afghanistan and Chad is frankly shameful.

baltimore sun

No (I'm Irish)

Immaculate Pasta wrote: »

Blatant photoshop :cool:

wouldn't think so, I opened photoshop once and there was so many things to do I freaked out and ran away

and a quick google brought this up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pEy58n6yEk

LordSutch

No (I'm Irish)

baltimore sun wrote: »

wouldn't think so, I opened photoshop once and there was so many things to do I freaked out and ran away

and a quick google brought this up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pEy58n6yEk

I presume this thread is about Remebrance Sunday (Poppy Day) and the Irish men who died on Flanders Fields?

In which case > http://www.hotelsbruges.co.uk/info/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bruges-flanders-fields3.jpg

Immaculate Pasta

Yes (I'm Irish)

baltimore sun wrote: »

wouldn't think so, I opened photoshop once and there was so many things to do I freaked out and ran away

and a quick google brought this up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pEy58n6yEk

Thanks for taking the bait

Tiocfaidh Armani

getz wrote: »

you live and make a living in britain ? why ? after that rant .two words ,sectarian,dinosaur

I'm a bigot?:rolleyes:

What a perfectly enlightened and reasonable response to my post. Thank you.....

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

I'm a bigot?:rolleyes:

What a perfectly enlightened and reasonable response to my post. Thank you.....

dont thank me i quite enjoyed it,

Tiocfaidh Armani

getz wrote: »

dont thank me i quite enjoyed it,

So did I, I gave my opinion and that was the best to you could do to retort it without addressing any of it. Carry on, I love debating people who can’t summon an argument, it makes me feel all superior!:D

rounding tattenham Corner

No (I'm Irish)

Dionysus wrote: »

Keith! Welcome to the thread.:D

Ah, the 16th Irish, otherwise known as Kitchener's Mob - would that be any connection to one Horatio Kitchener, the British commander responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of women and children in concentration camps during the Second Boer War? Are he and his allies really worth "commemorating"?

Correction the irish\british commander Horatio Kitchener

who the fug

rounding tattenham Corner wrote: »

Correction the irish\british commander Horatio Kitchener

Correction on the Correction

Kerry/British commander Horatio Kitchener

Lets be specific on the blame


Back on topic, does the Legion still spend in the 26 counties ?

ejmaztec

rounding tattenham Corner wrote: »

Correction the irish\british commander Horatio Kitchener

Another troublesome Kerryman prone to violent outbursts.:(

Judgement Day

who the fug wrote: »

Correction on the Correction

Kerry/British commander Horatio Kitchener

Lets be specific on the blame


Back on topic, does the Legion still spend in the 26 counties ?

http://republic-of-ireland.britishlegion.org.uk/

philologos

No (I'm Irish)

drumaneen wrote: »

If you don't see a street seller you can call in to the RBL ROI office at 26 South Frederick Street, Dublin 2 who will be glad to help.

ALSO BY POST:The nice peeps at the Limerick RBL will post you poppies for the cost of the postage and any donation to the Irish Poppy Appeal using their PayPal facility.

I'm in London so I don't think I'll have much difficulty this year

Nodin

getz wrote: »

dont thank me i quite enjoyed it,

You still haven;t explained quite what you "enjoyed".
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75103798&postcount=165

wingsof daun

The empire is long gone so let them commemorate because they are commemorating nothing.

ejmaztec

wingsof daun wrote: »

The empire is long gone so let them commemorate because they are commemorating nothing.

It's not the empire that's being commemorated.

jameswburke

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Niles wrote: »

I was just using that as an example, but my point still stands. Commemorating Irish people who fought in WWI does not equate to opposing those who fought for Irish freedom. Nor does it necessarily equate to supporting the British Army in general, just the Irish people who served in it.

I agree.

speedboatchase

Simple answer: If they want to. I wouldn't bat an eyelid and I'm certainly not going to accost a stranger on the street for doing so

Wile E. Coyote

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The fact that most of the country has no idea that the Irish army is carrying out UN sanctioned work in Chad, Afghanistan and Chad is frankly shameful.

Don't forget Chad. They're there as well. :P

deisedave

Do people think the british commemorate the soldiers who died fighting for Irish freedom. Basically Irish died fighting for the British fair enough but many more died fighting the Irish trying to not give us our freedom.

Lollipops23

No (I'm Irish)

My ancestors fought in WW1, my Grandfather (different side) fought for the RAF. I'm proud of them, not because they fought for the King/Queen, but because they were all extremely brave men. Just as the lads in Iraq are brave.

I really don't get all this animosity towards the poppy thing, I think it's a really nice way to commemorate those who died in battle.

StephenHendry

we already commemorate by having memorials to those who died in the war without being obliged to wear the poppy. i have no problem with people who do but by not wearing one is not necessarily showing disrespect to those who died

Lollipops23

No (I'm Irish)

StephenHendry wrote: »

we already commemorate by having memorials to those who died in the war without being obliged to wear the poppy. i have no problem with people who do but by not wearing one is not necessarily showing disrespect to those who died

Nobody is obliged to wear one, even in the UK. I just don't get people getting their knickers in a twist over it. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if it became commonplace here, we've ignored our war-dead for far too long IMHO.

westdub15

No problem with the Poppy in Britain, although the way its used at every chance by politicians attempting to show their 'patriotism' for three weeks before the eleventh of November is another issue...

Anyway, the problem with wearing the Poppy is that funds raised from the sale of the Poppy goes to the British Legion, an organization which provides support for former British veterans. A noble cause, however, this means you are supporting members of the British armed forces that served on this Island. Your money could be providing support for some of the men who participated in Bloody Sunday and countless other murders in the north. It may also tend the graves of Black and Tans who did not exactly distinguish themselves in Ireland.

Many brave Irish men (and women) from the North and South served with great distinction in the British Army, we should be proud of these and honor them but the Poppy is not the way to do it. It has been politicized by both sides of the divide. I would gladly bear an Irish Poppy provided its funds went to support the people of this Island.

Judgement Day

Lollipops23 wrote: »

My ancestors fought in WW1, my Grandfather (different side) fought for the RAF. I'm proud of them, not because they fought for the King/Queen, but because they were all extremely brave men. Just as the lads in Iraq are brave.

I really don't get all this animosity towards the poppy thing, I think it's a really nice way to commemorate those who died in battle.

It's a seasonal pastime here on Boards. :rolleyes:

Similar thread from 2002 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=636958

and 2004 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2062153

westdub15

The men who fight in Iraq are no braver than you or me. They are doing a job that was probably the only one available to them on their council estates. Its what they signed up for, in WW1 and WW2 they were fighting for their country and freedom in general that should be honored, what are they fighting for in Iraq?

It wasn't me!

westdub15 wrote: »

The men who fight in Iraq are no braver than you or me. They are doing a job that was probably the only one available to them on their council estates. Its what they signed up for, in WW1 and WW2 they were fighting for their country and freedom in general that should be honored, what are they fighting for in Iraq?

So you've definitely got the nads to go about your day knowing there are hundreds of people trying to shoot and blow you up on a constant basis? No braver? My hole.

westdub15

They don't get a choice, once you sign up that's whats expected of you. For the record I have friends in the Irish Army and I wouldn't think they're much braver than me.

It wasn't me!

Your point about them not having other options is also horseshít, at a time when the BA is at max capacity or downsizing, the competition to get in is tough. It's not some sort of social dumping ground. If you don't think professional soldiers are braver than you, you've completely failed to grasp the mental strength required to go out day after day under threat of death and do your job properly.

Jimoslimos

westdub15 wrote: »

The men who fight in Iraq are no braver than you or me. They are doing a job that was probably the only one available to them on their council estates. Its what they signed up for, in WW1 and WW2 they were fighting for their country and freedom in general that should be honored, what are they fighting for in Iraq?

For the most part those men fighting in WWI & II were doing it as a job too, a way of supporting their family because there wasn't much other paid work at the time.

But yes I do agree the supposed 'bravery' of soldiers is grossly exaggerated, especially in the US and UK.

westdub15

Competition to get in is tough at the moment because of the recession, the traditional recruitment ground is and always has been the vast council estates throughout the country. I have a lot of respect for British soldiers but building them up to be supermen or constantly referring to them as heroes rings of fascism tbh. How does joining the Army turn an otherwise normal man into a hero? They mold you into a machine and drill responses into you in training. That does not make anyone braver than another person.

Fratton Fred

Jimoslimos wrote: »

For the most part those men fighting in WWI & II were doing it as a job too, a way of supporting their family because there wasn't much other paid work at the time.

In Ireland yes, but in both wars the vast majority of people that fought were conscripted.

You never had conscription in Ireland, which is why wearing a poppy is thought of differently in England, Wales and Scotland. It is about remembering the Joe Soap that was called up and the sacrifices they made.