British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

philologos

No (I'm Irish)

I think we should abandon the term "The British" given that many people in other countries choose to remember.

Personally, I think that people irrespective of nationality should be remembered. We have to remember that for a lot of people the only reason they were on the front line was by virtue of birth in that many were conscripted. I also think that even those who willed to be the on the frontline should be remembered on either side.

Having said that, I don't see it as unreasonable to think that the result of victory over Nazism was a good thing across Europe.

passarellaie

The poppy is a wonderful tool of the London elites to bring inclusivity to the poor clowns in places like West Dumbartonshire where no less than 17000 work for the defence forces.These and the Irish when we were the periphery had to be educated in the glory of their sacrifice to keep the empire and the elite RICH
The reality is anyone here who supports poppy wearing are mere stooges of the London financial centre

JohnIRL

philologos wrote: »

I think we should abandon the term "The British" given that many people in other countries choose to remember.

Personally, I think that people irrespective of nationality should be remembered. We have to remember that for a lot of people the only reason they were on the front line was by virtue of birth in that many were conscripted. I also think that even those who willed to be the on the frontline should be remembered on either side.

Having said that, I don't see it as unreasonable to think that the result of victory over Nazism was a good thing across Europe.

Neither is it unreasonable to think that the partial victory Ireland had over the British Empire was a good thing.

I agree with you that people on either side should be remembered, but there's something foul about Irish fighting for the British when they should be fighting for Ireland against the British.

I can understand British fighting for the Britain, and Germans fighting for Germany etc, but not fighting for what would have been the enemy (and Britain was the enemy as it was the invading force in Ireland).

Having said that I just want to point out that I'm not anti-British.

philologos

No (I'm Irish)

JohnIRL wrote: »

Neither is it unreasonable to think that the partial victory Ireland had over the British Empire was a good thing.

I agree with you that people on either side should be remembered, but there's something foul about Irish fighting for the British when they should be fighting for Ireland against the British.

I can understand British fighting for the Britain, and Germans fighting for Germany etc, but not fighting for what would have been the enemy (and Britain was the enemy as it was the invading force in Ireland).

Having said that I just want to point out that I'm not anti-British.

I agree with your sentiment that a partial victory in the case of Ireland was overall a good thing. I also as I said before think victory over Nazism was a good thing. I absolutely deplore the means by which these outcomes were reached though.

I don't see what is wrong in using November 11th as a time to reflect on the tragedy that is global conflict and war.

passarellaie: I don't see how your argument works. If the poppy wasn't significant outside of the City of London then you'd be right, it would be something simply for the bankers and the financial elites. What is clear is that for many people the significance of reflecting on the tragedy of war is productive. That's something I wouldn't begrudge to anyone.

laoch na mona

LordSutch wrote: »

Thats quite correct, the poppy was 'as you know' originally worn to commerate the dead from the Great War, and since then it has come to be a symbol for all war dead, and not just those who fell on the poppy fields.

does that included the brits who died in ireland?
there is nothing good to say about them

passarellaie

passarellaie: I don't see how your argument works. If the poppy wasn't significant outside of the City of London then you'd be right, it would be something simply for the bankers and the financial elites. What is clear is that for many people the significance of reflecting on the tragedy of war is productive. That's something I wouldn't begrudge to anyone.[/QUOTE]

You miss my point.The London elites use it and propagate its use forcefully to indoctrinate the poor people in disadvantaged areas whose only hope of wotk is often in the "armed Forces"
As they have done for centuries in so many areas to protect themselves they have done this very well.
Of course nobody could deny the hurt suffered by families in wars.
My problem with the poppy is that the elites use it to perpetuate the popularity of military force to SERVE ITS ENDS.

partyguinness

philologos wrote: »

partyguinness: Surely this is about toleration. Personally I don't expect or require you to respect the poppy. I accept your liberty to differ with me. I more than likely won't be wearing the poppy this year, but if I got one I would, not just because of where I live and work now.

I think the main point of it is to respect the dead at war. That's what I take from it. To respect all who have died in war.

You're entitled to view it as you like, but I don't believe you are entitled to dictate to other people as to how they should view it. Why can't you just tolerate it like I and others tolerate your position?

Edit: Also your logic is flawed. Just because someone wears the poppy doesn't mean that they have to agree with the British Legion or with the British Government in entirety. By wearing the poppy which I have done in the past in Ireland, I'm not representing Britain, I'm representing the pain and suffering of war in all forms.

Let's be clear. I am not intolerant of people wearing the Poppy. My wife will wear one and go to a memorial on Armistice Day (her father was in the Navy and grand uncle fought in WWI in Flanders..survived). I completely respect your decision to wear or not wear one. Countries should commemorate their war dead no matter what country.

My point from the beginning of this thread has been about the "Poppy Fascists" and how the Poppy has moved over the past 10 years from:

My objection/observation is about how the goal posts have shifted from a). British dead in WWI to b) All British soldiers who have died, and now it is for ALL soldiers or people who have died in war (I don’t see the names of any other soldiers on the memorials…but anyway).

In some ways I see the Poppy has been hijacked to suit the current agenda (support for the war in Iraq and Afgan). Two very basic examples:

1. Up to 10 years ago, you saw the poppy sporadically on TV. People made their own choice to wear one. No problem there. Now, the BBC (among others) insist that all presenters and guests wear a poppy.

2. The band Girls Aloud played on BBC 2-3 years ago. All the band wore poppies except Nadine Coyle (being of a Nationalist persuasion and from Derry was hardly surprising). All hell broke loose and the chattering classes were on their way complaining and she was forced to defend herself over the following days.

I find this outrageous. Britain is supposed to be a Western democracy and where is the tolerance for people who decide not to wear on.

If such a stance was taken on the Easter Lilly, for example, I would be equally disgusted. I would see it as an attack on what it represents. I have an Easter Lilly, I have it attached to my Proclamation in my house. I don't feel the need to wear it, I do not feel like I have to wear it to establish my Irish or Republican credentials. That's my choice. Some do wear it…not many.

I think it says far more about the insecurity of the British psyche that they feel this constant need to reaffirm their past or identity with medals and awards (eg Knighthood, MBEs, Poppies etc). As if they are worried that everyone will forget so they cling to this notion of the poppy being so important. They have a fragile ego.

Wearing poppies does nothing for those who died. As I said earlier, a more fitting memorial would be to stop invading other sovereign countries and sending home coffins which gives even more opportunity to wallow in grief which taps into the national psyche and keeps opposition to current wars muted.

It represents a deep underlying insecurity and to be honest I find it quite sad and disrespectful to the actual dead because by almost forcing people to wear one and being so it your face it totally undermines a basic principle of a democracy.

I have no issue whatsoever with people wearing one but I do object to the ‘in your face’ almost competition like approach and shoe horning people into wearing one and also this nonsense that it represents the futility of war and does not glorify the dead or so called great war.

I fundamentally disagree with the last two propositions, not with your right to wear on.

I just see a lack of honesty and transparency over the past 10 years or so.

ps Still cannot see where my logic is flawed.

partyguinness

passarellaie wrote: »

passarellaie: I don't see how your argument works. If the poppy wasn't significant outside of the City of London then you'd be right, it would be something simply for the bankers and the financial elites. What is clear is that for many people the significance of reflecting on the tragedy of war is productive. That's something I wouldn't begrudge to anyone.

You miss my point.The London elites use it and propagate its use forcefully to indoctrinate the poor people in disadvantaged areas whose only hope of wotk is often in the "armed Forces"
As they have done for centuries in so many areas to protect themselves they have done this very well.
Of course nobody could deny the hurt suffered by families in wars.
My problem with the poppy is that the elites use it to perpetuate the popularity of military force to SERVE ITS ENDS.[/QUOTE]


Excellent. Glad I am not the only one who sees this.

Interestingly the USA does not show coffins of dead soldiers returning as support would plummet.

In the UK by contrast, they cant get enough of the coffins of soldiers of TV...hell that town just got a Royal Charter. It taps into the national psyche of wallowing and keeps the show going.

Am sure their is a PhD waiting for someone on that point.

NufcNavan

Perhaps when there is a poppy or some other sort of commemoration for all of the people that the British Army killed, then I'll consider it a good idea to wear one.

partyguinness

NufcNavan wrote: »

Perhaps when there is a poppy or some other sort of commemoration for all of the people that the British Army killed, then I'll consider it a good idea to wear one.

Ah put you see...they were all "terrorists" or pesky civilians that got in the way...;)

OPENROAD

So has anyone actually changed their viewpoint since last year..the year before that ..the year before that etc etc...................... That was a quick year imo

partyguinness

OPENROAD wrote: »

So has anyone actually changed their viewpoint since last year..the year before that ..the year before that etc etc...................... That was a quick year imo

Yeah the year flies. Might as well cut, past and save for next year...:)

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

partyguinness wrote: »

You miss my point.The London elites use it and propagate its use forcefully to indoctrinate the poor people in disadvantaged areas whose only hope of wotk is often in the "armed Forces"
As they have done for centuries in so many areas to protect themselves they have done this very well.
Of course nobody could deny the hurt suffered by families in wars.
My problem with the poppy is that the elites use it to perpetuate the popularity of military force to SERVE ITS ENDS.

Excellent. Glad I am not the only one who sees this.

Interestingly the USA does not show coffins of dead soldiers returning as support would plummet.

In the UK by contrast, they cant get enough of the coffins of soldiers of TV...hell that town just got a Royal Charter. It taps into the national psyche of wallowing and keeps the show going.

Am sure their is a PhD waiting for someone on that point.[/QUOTE]
quick easy answer,why are you watching british TV,reading british newspapers ,and more interested in what the british are up to, than living you own life ? and i think the PHD would be more interested in your mind than the british nation

bobbysands81

If you want to wear a poppy then wear it, it should be up to individuals to do as they please.

However, the poppy nazi's are out in force in Britain these days and failure to wear one seems to result in much negative comment. The irony of standing up to the Nazi's to become a type of fascist is not lost on me.

These British soldiers that you're giving money to are responsible for the murder of many Irish people, I don't think they're worthy of my money so I won't give them any. I won't stick up for the murder of Irish people by foreign invading forces, why would Irish people want to swell these guys retirement funds? They're murderes who chose murder as a career.

It's a pity that the people who fought for the British Empire, and run into hard times, are cast aside by their own Government, why do they have to resort to begging to earn a few €€€? They put their lives on the line, why aren't they looked properly without resorting to this begging?

As always, some Irish people will look at what the Brits do and copy them as they see it as a fashionable thing to do without having any understanding of the murderers that they're supporting.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If you want to wear a poppy then wear it, it should be up to individuals to do as they please.

However, the poppy nazi's are out in force in Britain these days and failure to wear one seems to result in much negative comment. The irony of standing up to the Nazi's to become a type of fascist is not lost on me.

These British soldiers that you're giving money to are responsible for the murder of many Irish people, I don't think they're worthy of my money so I won't give them any. I won't stick up for the murder of Irish people by foreign invading forces, why would Irish people want to swell these guys retirement funds? They're murderes who chose murder as a career.

It's a pity that the people who fought for the British Empire, and run into hard times, are cast aside by their own Government, why do they have to resort to begging to earn a few €€€? They put their lives on the line, why aren't they looked properly without resorting to this begging?

As always, some Irish people will look at what the Brits do and copy them as they see it as a fashionable thing to do without having any understanding of the murderers that they're supporting.

all money raised by selling poppies in ireland,stays in ireland and goes to irish people only ,and you have just called the irshmen,women, and families ,who get the benefits from the selling of poppies, murders who chose murder as a career,

BrensBenz

Personally, I've no problem commemorating the millions of "salt of the Earth" people, on all sides, who died at war but I think it's time to consider an annual and international gesture of disgust for the monarchs, politicians and generals whose failures caused these wars. World War 1 was a "royal family feud" which killed 20+ million people; WW2 was inevitable after the politicians' cock-up at Versailles. And the phrase "they started it" should be consigned forever to the schoolyard.

bobbysands81

getz wrote: »

all money raised by selling poppies in ireland,stays in ireland and goes to irish people only ,and you have just called the irshmen,women, and families ,who get the benefits from the selling of poppies, murders who chose murder as a career,

Fair point, I retract that comment.

It's whomever was the person in the British Army that chose murder as a career, not their family.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

BrensBenz wrote: »

Personally, I've no problem commemorating the millions of "salt of the Earth" people, on all sides, who died at war but I think it's time to consider an annual and international gesture of disgust for the monarchs, politicians and generals whose failures caused these wars. World War 1 was a "royal family feud" which killed 20+ million people; WW2 was inevitable after the politicians' cock-up at Versailles. And the phrase "they started it" should be consigned forever to the schoolyard.

tell me more.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Fair point, I retract that comment.

It's whomever was the person in the British Army that chose murder as a career, not their family.

thats OK i can more than most know how passionate people can get in their beliefs, forget the UK,in the case of ireland,30,000 irish families lost loved ones during WW1,and in the second world war over 10,000 irish families,some lads went into it for adventure,or a belief that they were saving the world,or even for economic reasons,even so they are dead,the poppy is in memory of those lads,and anything raised in ireland is for them, dont donate for a poppy is you feel that bad about it,thats up to you,but at the same time if some old granny wants to remember a loved /husband brother ect on a certain day,cannot you respect that ?

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Fair point, I retract that comment.

It's whomever was the person in the British Army that chose murder as a career, not their family.

Says the man who names himself after a terrorist.

Rubecula

No (I'm British/not Irish)

My own feelings on this (I am British by the way so you can see where I am coming from)

There have been very many brave people who died and have been ignored. The Poppy is a way of remembering them. Ireland does not need the poppy, but it should in my own opinion make some sort of statement to remember the brave souls it has lost, in whatever field of endeavour, not necessarily the wars.

I wear my poppy with a certain pride when remembrance day comes around. I remember and feel sorrow for the loss and happy that I live in relative safety because of people who made that ultimate sacrifice.

By the way I said at the start I am British, which is very true. My family comes from the Dublin area, and my late grandfather fought in the Royal Irish Rifles in WW1. My thinking may be coloured a bit by the fact I am ex forces myself.

bobbysands81

getz wrote: »

thats OK i can more than most know how passionate people can get in their beliefs, forget the UK,in the case of ireland,30,000 irish families lost loved ones during WW1,and in the second world war over 10,000 irish families,some lads went into it for adventure,or a belief that they were saving the world,or even for economic reasons,even so they are dead,the poppy is in memory of those lads,and anything raised in ireland is for them, dont donate for a poppy is you feel that bad about it,thats up to you,but at the same time if some old granny wants to remember a loved /husband brother ect on a certain day,cannot you respect that ?

Of course I can respect that mate, that's why my first words on this matter were:

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If you want to wear a poppy then wear it, it should be up to individuals to do as they please.

If the poppy was merely about those poor unfortunates that died in WW1 and WW2 then we wouldn't be having this debate.

The poppy signifies far more than that though and includes ex-British Army personnel that have murdered and plundered their way through foreign countries around the globs, including Ireland.

The British Government should be looking after their ex-servicemen properly, it is a sad indictment that they're not and that these men and women who believed that they were giving their all for their country now have to resort to begging.

Gingko

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Says the man who names himself after a terrorist.

Bobby Sands a "terrorist"? Oh really? He was very much loved in his community and was also a poet and a singer song writer. A creative man by all accounts in revolutionary times in the north. He was a "terrorist" and died fighting against British state "terrorism".

It's laughable that some of the key states in the world who coined the phrase "terrorism" are the same ones with the most shameful records and horrifying present foreign policies including the U.S. and Israel. Let's just call the natives "terrorists" guys so as to turn all public opinion against them!

tfitzgerald

No (I'm Irish)

If people who fought in wars want to wear a poppy then I think they are entitled to .I also think the British army soldiers are being treated very bad at the moment . The government sacking a lot of them when they return from active duty in afganastan after see some of their comrades killed a maimed and then to be made redundant on their return . Cameron should be shot he's doing more damage to the British army than the IRA ever did.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Of course I can respect that mate, that's why my first words on this matter were:



If the poppy was merely about those poor unfortunates that died in WW1 and WW2 then we wouldn't be having this debate.

The poppy signifies far more than that though and includes ex-British Army personnel that have murdered and plundered their way through foreign countries around the globs, including Ireland.

The British Government should be looking after their ex-servicemen properly, it is a sad indictment that they're not and that these men and women who believed that they were giving their all for their country now have to resort to begging.

we are talking about the poppy in ireland and irish dead, their relatives [in ireland]are not reduced to begging,in fact most direct relatives will mostly be dead, a few old soldiers will still be around in the british legion remembering their friends, many a wreath will be laid on the cenotaphs[like the one that was bombed by the IRA in northern ireland,during a remembrance service,killing old men and a irish senators daughter] end of the day many a young irishman died to keep europe free,

laoch na mona

Rubecula wrote: »

My own feelings on this (I am British by the way so you can see where I am coming from)

There have been very many brave people who died and have been ignored. The Poppy is a way of remembering them. Ireland does not need the poppy, but it should in my own opinion make some sort of statement to remember the brave souls it has lost, in whatever field of endeavour, not necessarily the wars.

I wear my poppy with a certain pride when remembrance day comes around. I remember and feel sorrow for the loss and happy that I live in relative safety because of people who made that ultimate sacrifice.

By the way I said at the start I am British, which is very true. My family comes from the Dublin area, and my late grandfather fought in the Royal Irish Rifles in WW1. My thinking may be coloured a bit by the fact I am ex forces myself.

we have the lily for our patriot dead

ejmaztec

Gingko wrote: »

Bobby Sands a "terrorist"? Oh really? He was very much loved in his community and was also a poet and a singer song writer. A creative man by all accounts in revolutionary times in the north. He was a "terrorist" and died fighting against British state "terrorism".

It's laughable that some of the key states in the world who coined the phrase "terrorism" are the same ones with the most shameful records and horrifying present foreign policies including the U.S. and Israel. Let's just call the natives "terrorists" guys so as to turn all public opinion against them!

Why was he imprisoned?

bobbysands81

ejmaztec wrote: »

Why was he imprisoned?

For breaking the "laws" of an oppressive foreign invader (who have no right to jurisdiction on this island) and fighting for justice and equality for all on this island.

"Let our revenge be the laughter of our children."

Rubecula

No (I'm British/not Irish)

laoch na mona wrote: »

we have the lily for our patriot dead

My sincerest apologies as I didn't realise that.

LordSutch

No (I'm Irish)

Rubecula wrote: »

My own feelings on this (I am British by the way so you can see where I am coming from)

There have been very many brave people who died and have been ignored. The Poppy is a way of remembering them. Ireland does not need the poppy, but it should in my own opinion make some sort of statement to remember the brave souls it has lost, in whatever field of endeavour, not necessarily the wars.

I wear my poppy with a certain pride when remembrance day comes around. I remember and feel sorrow for the loss and happy that I live in relative safety because of people who made that ultimate sacrifice.

By the way I said at the start I am British, which is very true. My family comes from the Dublin area, and my late grandfather fought in the Royal Irish Rifles in WW1. My thinking may be coloured a bit by the fact I am ex forces myself.

Well I am not ex forces, but I am Irish, and I contribute to the poppy appeal fund in Dublin every year, and in return I wear a poppy every day on the streets of Dublin leading up to Remembrance Sunday (which may, or may not fall on the 11th). You say "Ireland does not need the poppy" which obviously goes against everything I was ever taught in school & by my parents. Approximately 200,000 Irish men went off the fight in the Geat War 1914-1918, 30,000 of whom died on Flanders poppy fields, (which is a shocking figure when you think about it), then again in Wold War II when appoximately another 10,000 Irish men died fighting the Nazi's. My Irish Gandad was among the fallen along with all the other 50,000+ Irish casualties. The poppy has always been the symbol of the fallen, and those of us who honour the dead wear the poppy with pride, however, it is a personal choice, and it makes no odds to me what other people do or do not do, to mark the 11th.

The South Dublin Chuch I attend will hold its annual Remembrance sevice on the 13th (nearest Sunday to the 11th), most of the congregation will be wearing poppies as usual, and a lone bugler will play the last post after the minute's silence that honours the dead, & that marks the Armistice.

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

For breaking the "laws" of an oppressive foreign invader (who have no right to jurisdiction on this island) and fighting for justice and equality for all on this island.

"Let our revenge be the laughter of our children."

Carrying a gun and being a member of a terrorist organisation is illegal in Ireland as well.

Rubecula

No (I'm British/not Irish)

LordSutch wrote: »

Well I am not ex forces, but I am Irish, and I contribute to the poppy appeal fund in Dublin every year, and in return I wear a poppy every day on the streets of Dublin leading up to Remembrance Sunday (which may, or may not fall on the 11th). You say "Ireland does not need the poppy" which obviously goes against everything I was ever taught in school & by my parents. Approximately 200,000 Irish men went off the fight in the Geat War 1914-1918, 30,000 of whom died on Flanders poppy fields, (which is a shocking figure when you think about it), then again in Wold War II when appoximately another 10,000 Irish men died fighting the Nazi's. My Irish Gandad was among the fallen along with all the other 50,000+ Irish casualties. The poppy has always been the symbol of the fallen, and those of us who honour the dead wear the poppy with pride, however, it is a personal choice, and it makes no odds to me what other people do or do not do, to mark the 11th.

The South Dublin Chuch I attend will hold its annual Remembrance sevice on the 13th (nearest Sunday to the 11th), most of the congregation will be wearing poppies as usual, and a lone bugler will play the last post after the minute's silence that honours the dead, and that marks the Armistice.

I truly wish I could be there for that, as my Grandfather was from that area too. I will be attending a service in Holyhead on the day, but my thoughts always turn to him.

krissovo

No (I'm Irish)

As a ex British serviceman who is Irish I do not care in slightest what the Irish do. I never expected any support from the Irish when I signed up but I would hope the Irish respect if I want to wear a poppy and not question my intentions.

Incidentally after injuries sustained while serving I was the recipient of funds from the British Legion so its not just supporting long fallen hero's. Irish soldiers are getting injured every year serving the BA both in combat and piece time operations and I expect a few will be searching for work after cuts.

Whatever you think the British Legion does great work and they only see the serviceman not the nationality of the serviceman.

Pete Digger

Rubecula wrote: »

My own feelings on this (I am British by the way so you can see where I am coming from)

There have been very many brave people who died and have been ignored. The Poppy is a way of remembering them. Ireland does not need the poppy, but it should in my own opinion make some sort of statement to remember the brave souls it has lost, in whatever field of endeavour, not necessarily the wars.

I wear my poppy with a certain pride when remembrance day comes around. I remember and feel sorrow for the loss and happy that I live in relative safety because of people who made that ultimate sacrifice.

By the way I said at the start I am British, which is very true. My family comes from the Dublin area, and my late grandfather fought in the Royal Irish Rifles in WW1. My thinking may be coloured a bit by the fact I am ex forces myself.

Your post raises the questions of identity and family history. I was born and bred in England, of Irish parents. My three elder brothers - I'm the youngest - were all born in Ireland. I never felt anything other than Irish. When the time came to get a passport, I never considered anything other than Irish one.

When 'poppy time' would come around each year, pretty much none of the Irish people I knew - or their offspring like me, the famous Plastic Paddies - would wear poppies. The parental logic imparted to me was that the poppy honoured all those who fought for the British (it's absolutely true that no distinction is made about whether you're Irish, Polish, Nepalese or Indian fighting for the Empire) and this raised two problems. Both my grandfathers fought against the British in the fight for independence and amongst those who would have directly benefitted from the Poppy Appeal were ex Black & Tans (I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so yes, a few of them would still have been knocking around the various British Legion clubs).

I'd cleave the response to the thread title in two. Should the Irish people commemorate people who fought for the British Empire? Yes, they should remember every Irish person who demonstrated bravery and sacrifice. Should this be done via the British Poppy? No. The Poppy Appeal is in remembrance of British soldiers. We can remember all our war dead, but we don't have to do it via a foreign conduit.

LordSutch

No (I'm Irish)

Pete Digger wrote: »

I'd cleave the response to the thread title in two. Should the Irish people commemorate people who fought for the British Empire? Yes, they should remember every Irish person who demonstrated bravery and sacrifice. Should this be done via the British Poppy? No. The Poppy Appeal is in remembrance of British soldiers. We can remember all our war dead, but we don't have to do it via a foreign conduit.

Can I ask you then how you feel about my comments/observations in post#431. I might also add (as I do evey year) that the Poppy appeal fund in the ROI is self contained, ergo it supporst ROI war veterans & their families only.

Tiocfaidh Armani

krissovo wrote: »

As a ex British serviceman who is Irish I do not care in slightest what the Irish do. I never expected any support from the Irish when I signed up but I would hope the Irish respect if I want to wear a poppy and not question my intentions.

Incidentally after injuries sustained while serving I was the recipient of funds from the British Legion so its not just supporting long fallen hero's. Irish soldiers are getting injured every year serving the BA both in combat and piece time operations and I expect a few will be searching for work after cuts.

Whatever you think the British Legion does great work and they only see the serviceman not the nationality of the serviceman.

You're a mercenary who made your own choices, I can think of a lot more worthy causes. You were more than willing to inflict the same injuries on other people, you're no hero and neither are the ones out there today putting civilian populations are risk for Bush and Blair's interests.

There's one born every minute as they say.......

laoch na mona

Rubecula wrote: »

My sincerest apologies as I didn't realise that.

no bother
p.s I think the poppy is a good idea for anyone who had a relative in the british army

krissovo

No (I'm Irish)

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

You're a mercenary who made your own choices, I can think of a lot more worthy causes. You were more than willing to inflict the same injuries on other people, you're no hero and neither are the ones out there today putting civilian populations are risk for Bush and Blair's interests.

There's one born every minute as they say.......

You don't even know me or what I did for the BA and yet your quick to pass judgment :rolleyes:

bobbysands81

LordSutch wrote: »

Well I am not ex forces, but I am Irish, and I contribute to the poppy appeal fund in Dublin every year, and in return I wear a poppy every day on the streets of Dublin leading up to Remembrance Sunday (which may, or may not fall on the 11th). You say "Ireland does not need the poppy" which obviously goes against everything I was ever taught in school & by my parents. Approximately 200,000 Irish men went off the fight in the Geat War 1914-1918, 30,000 of whom died on Flanders poppy fields, (which is a shocking figure when you think about it), then again in Wold War II when appoximately another 10,000 Irish men died fighting the Nazi's. My Irish Gandad was among the fallen along with all the other 50,000+ Irish casualties. The poppy has always been the symbol of the fallen, and those of us who honour the dead wear the poppy with pride, however, it is a personal choice, and it makes no odds to me what other people do or do not do, to mark the 11th.

The South Dublin Chuch I attend will hold its annual Remembrance sevice on the 13th (nearest Sunday to the 11th), most of the congregation will be wearing poppies as usual, and a lone bugler will play the last post after the minute's silence that honours the dead, & that marks the Armistice.

A beautiful story... but if only the poppy was worn in memory of such brave men and not others responsible for the needless deaths of many many people in foreign lands that Britain has absolutely no right to be in.

cournioni

Should the Irish State and people in general commemorate people who fought for the British Empire? Definately not.

Should an Irish individual (or individuals) commemorate people who fought for the British Empire? By all means.

The British Empire has caused too many atrocities on this island against Irish people for that to happen in my opinion.

Rubecula

No (I'm British/not Irish)

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

You're a mercenary who made your own choices, I can think of a lot more worthy causes. You were more than willing to inflict the same injuries on other people, you're no hero and neither are the ones out there today putting civilian populations are risk for Bush and Blair's interests.

There's one born every minute as they say.......

Your words seem to be overly harsh. I don't know if that is how you meant them to be. But at least you have expressed your honest opinion and I respect that.

I never concidered myself to be a mercenary, I joined up of my own free will I admit, but I did so in the sincere belief I would be doing the right thing.

Was I right or wrong? I will have to let History decide that one. I do know that I believed in the freedom of the people to live how they wanted to live and I would have fought for that freedom as did my ancestors before me.

To this day I personally think what I did was right, both for what I believed and for myself personally. Incidentally, I never shot or for that matter hurt anyone when I was serving (Unless you count a motor accident when I nearly killed myself) I have seen lots of worse examples of 'mercenary types' as a civilian. Some people deliberately go out of their way to hurt others, either physically or mentally.

But yes watching things on the news does seem to show how armed forces the world over can be ... unpleasant? This applies to whoever and whatever cause you support.

ejmaztec

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

You're a mercenary who made your own choices, I can think of a lot more worthy causes. You were more than willing to inflict the same injuries on other people, you're no hero and neither are the ones out there today putting civilian populations are risk for Bush and Blair's interests.

There's one born every minute as they say.......

I think they've gone.

Fratton Fred

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think they've gone.

Bush and Blair are quite up to date for some people. A lot of posters still think it is 1916.

Tiocfaidh Armani

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think they've gone.

Their wars aren't though.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Bush and Blair are quite up to date for some people. A lot of posters still think it is 1916.

I agree, the Somme is long gone, the poppy is stained by the blood of the people of Ireland, Palestine, Kenya, India and shouldn't be worn. Get with the times, people.

getz

No (I'm British/not Irish)

cournioni wrote: »

Should the Irish State and people in general commemorate people who fought for the British Empire? Definately not.

Should an Irish individual (or individuals) commemorate people who fought for the British Empire? By all means.

The British Empire has caused too many atrocities on this island against Irish people for that to happen in my opinion.

it would be far better if you read the irish goverments own web site about irish men and women who fought in WW1 ect, ,www.taoiseach.gov.ie <home < taoiseach and goverment then scroll down to irish soldiers in the first world war

ejmaztec

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Their wars aren't though.

Iraq's pretty much fizzled out, and Afghanistan wasn't just a joint effort for the UK and the US, as a lot more countries are involved in it, Ireland included.

Gingko

krissovo wrote: »

You don't even know me or what I did for the BA and yet your quick to pass judgment :rolleyes:

And just what do the British and U.S. forces do exactly again??? Neither are "peace keepers". They are installed around the world to protect vested interests and divide peoples and opinions just so as indigenous resources can be raped and controlled? Their police for the anglo-saxon-american nightmare sweeping much of the planet. Irish people who join the British forces are either confused, ignorant of what they are been used for or just plain thick!

Fratton Fred

Gingko wrote: »

And just what do the British and U.S. forces do exactly again??? Neither are "peace keepers". They are installed around the world to protect vested interests and divide peoples and opinions just so as indigenous resources can be raped and controlled? Their police for the anglo-saxon-american nightmare sweeping much of the planet. Irish people who join the British forces are either confused, ignorant of what they are been used for or just plain thick!

And what about Irish people who serve alongside them in Kuwait, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Cyprus?

ejmaztec

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Bush and Blair are quite up to date for some people. A lot of posters still think it is 1916.

It'll be 1690 when the regular Northern contributor arrives on the scene. This thread's like a Doctor Who episode on acid.