Worried about ill chameleon- advice appreciated

AvonEnniskerry

I am worried about a chameleon I have. I have 3 in total. 2 males and a female. The 2 males are fine but over the past 3 days I have noticed the female chameleon does not look well. She is dark coloured with her eyes sunken into her head. She only opens them if she feels she really has to and usually only the one, very slightly. She is still adjusting her body colour but she’s seems more content with her body close to the ground (she even rests her head). She does not climb and fails to grip onto anything around her. She is conscience of being the right way up though. She is just under two years old, I am wondering if she was lacking something but the other two seem grand. I have not seen her eating. She is not sensitive to light anymore- she does not seem to wake up when the light is on. Just before I noticed her changes she was doing a lot of digging and burrowing. There are flourescent bulbs in the tank, a waterfall and fogger (however this has stopped working lately) water is spritzed into the tank every now and again to keep humidity and a heat mat. They eat butterhead lettuce and mealworms as the crickets kept escaping, however I have noticed insects staring to live in the tank so I am thinking of replacing the back wall and starting over. I am wondering if any of this could cause her changes...

Cameron Poe

It sounds like she may be attempting to lay eggs but can't. Might be a good idea to get someone to take a look at her as being egg bound can be fatal. It can be quite a common thing in female chams.

What type of chameleon is it?

Cookie_Monster

I'd just bring her to a vet ASAP rather than rely on internet advice tbh, better safe than sorry.

AvonEnniskerry

Yeah, I brought her into the vet on the assumption of her retaining her eggs and as a result she became dehydrated. unfortunately it looked like she was to far gone so we put her down. we had been feeding and watering her through a pipette with electrolyte but she wasn't responding and the vet feared rehydrating her would leave her in pain for longer than needed and she was not neccessarily going to make it anyway.

However I cleaned out the tank later that day and found she had laid her eggs so I am a little confused as to what made her so ill.... she was a veiled chameleon (not small enough to be miniture but not overly large - just about the length of my hand excluding the tail)

antocann

hi can i ask did you take the rep into a well kwon vet who knows about reptiles ?
somthing is telling me this lizard didnt need to be put down but needed alot of tlc to bring to health ,

www.herpireland.com
www.reptile-community.com
are great site with all the help you could need

AvonEnniskerry

I brought her to a vet in Bray who was recommended by another vet. She has since examined the 2 males and they have come back healthy, well bred and looked after so I do not understand why the female got so poorly

Dutchology

I'm very sorry to hear that you lost the Chameleon, not easy to lose a pet, but at least she is not suffering now.

A few points:

The most highly recommended (and the only one I care to recommend myself) vet in the South is John Bainbridge in the Dundrum area.

It is possible that the stress on her body of laying the eggs was too much.

Mealworms alone aren't good as a staple diet. You need to provide a more varied diet which can include crickets, mealworms, locusts (they seem to love these brightly coloured critters), wax worms. If you find that crickets are escaping, take a look at your setup and figure out how it's happening so that you can block that up rather than eliminating what is usually a chameleon's staple diet in captivity.

Was her diet supplemented with calcium?

When was the UV last replaced in her tank and was she living with the males or on her own. Was she in view of the males if on her own?

Once again, sorry to hear it

AvonEnniskerry

Sorry I keep trying to reply but I lose my message when the internet goes...

The Cameleons were all kept in the same tank... I know this is unusual but they only fought when it came to mating in which case one of the males was removed. the 2 males are now alone in the tank and there are no problems...

They are fed nutrobal as there supplement and crickets from a can as there is no way of sealing the tank completely as you have to be able to open the door.
It is a warm tank with good humidity and the uv bulbs are repleced often.

It seems to me like she was worn out from laying eggs, what I found weird is she was refusing help. We were feeding and watering her with a pipette however she really was not happy opening her mouth. it was like she had already decided her fate...

Cameron Poe

It's an extremely bad idea to house chameleons together. It will almost inevitably end in the death of one of them. Physical fighting in chameleons is secondary to the psychological warfare that is probably happening right now.

Males of the majority of lizard species should never be housed together. You should really separate them. Also like a previous poster was saying chameleons should never be in the same line of vision even in separate tanks.

AvonEnniskerry

She did not die from the males fighting with her.

Cameron Poe

http://www.ukchameleons.co.uk/stress.htm

Have a read of that.

AvonEnniskerry

Just a point.. but can you name one animal when beside another of it's breed that doesnt either dominate the other or feel dominated by the other... It happens amongst every animal.. Horses, dogs, cats, people... this is common. when they fight it yes causes problems but if this was the case you would not keep anything together and there would be no earth.

Cameron Poe

Nonsense. All animals are not the same.

It is widely accepted that chameleons should not be housed together. Do some research. You should have done it before you bought them in the first place.

You can try justify your mistakes to yourself but it doesn't make it right.

tallus

I'd tend to agree with Cameron Poe regarding housing a animals of the same sex together especially males as they can be extremely territorial.

AvonEnniskerry

I did my research. but there are exceptions to every rule.
The vet has also seen the two males together and has seen that they are not terretorial or a threat to each other. Untill you know or have studied my two pets you can not tell me what is best for them.

You think you are right because you have read a book. I can see i am right cos I can see them for myself. NO I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF ALL CHAMELEONS. OTHERS MIGHT WELL GET TERRITORIAL.
Also as mentioned before they were housed together before I even got them.

tallus

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

I did my research. but there are exceptions to every rule.
The vet has also seen the two males together and has seen that they are not terretorial or a threat to each other. Untill you know or have studied my two pets you can not tell me what is best for them.

You think you are right because you have read a book. I can see i am right cos I can see them for myself. NO I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF ALL CHAMELEONS. OTHERS MIGHT WELL GET TERRITORIAL.
Also as mentioned before they were housed together before I even got them.

I was speaking from experience. Not a book thing to be honest.
I have kept and bred several species of gecko. I never housed more than one adult male in the same enclosure as they usually fight. One might make the case that chameleons aren't the same, but males are the same and are 99.99999% of the time territorial. As a matter of fact, I'd say you'd be hard pushed to find any species where males coexist in the same vivarium.
I'd say that the Chameleons being housed together before you got them doesn't mean it was the correct method of husbandry either.

I wasn't criticising you by the way I was commenting from experience, and you did say advice would be appreciated. So don't take it personally, I think people only have the welfare of the herps in mind here.

AvonEnniskerry

sorry that response was not aimed at you but more at the poster before you. I am aware that they should not be housed together. It is something that is on my mind. but situations have changed since I originally got them and I can no longer afford a 2nd tank or have the space. I am aware this is not good. but I also see that they sleep quite happily side by side in a hammock in the top of the tank. That they seem content enough with each other in the tank. believe me. if I though they were a threat together I would not house them together but so far I have had no problems...

Cameron Poe

I have kept and bred many species of lizards over the years. Don't make assumptions about me.

What you don't seem to understand is that your perception of what is happening in your vivarium may not be the whole truth. They might seem to get on ok but they probably don't. No one is making things up to inconvenience you.

If you don't want to take advice from books or people with experience it's best not to ask in the first place.

AvonEnniskerry

Cameron poe. I was asking about advice for a different matter. it was you who volunteered advice that I had not requested.