Post-natal depression is a myth.

parrai

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

No. I have interpreted the facts and determined that Biological Psychiatry in the traditional sense, does not meet the criteria for a hard science.

Would you say positively that Biological Psychiatry meets the criteria set out in this document? Where are the lab tests for determining someone has a chemical imbalance in the brain? Answer: there is none.

My friend you do not fly straight... You have changed course so many times in the duration of the thread... You lack credibility as you are not an expert...

Also yours is merely opinion, same as anyone else here, no matter what you say...

You have stated that you do not accept anyone elses opinion, but unfortunately, every debate at some stage, unless the point is proven has to accept to agree to disagree...

And as you have said:-


Originally Posted by TheyKnowMyIP
The entire field of Psychiatry is in severe disarray already. http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/ff_dsmv/

“there is no definition of a mental disorder. It’s bull****. I mean, you just can’t define it.” - Allen Frances, lead author of the DSM

If Psychiatry wants to maintain any credability, it should merge with a real science, like Neurology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyKnowMyIP
...they don't have a solid idea of how the mind works at a neurological level.

TheyKnowMyIP

flutterflye wrote: »

There is no set balance - no equilibrium.

I disagree. How can you determine something is out of whack, if no baseline value exists? What is the point in measuring a deviation from a non known point, exactly?

CroatoanCat

I don't know anything about the OP's posting history, but it seems clear he/she is something of a troll. As somebody who has suffered from depression for years, I can testify that it is a "real" illness. My experience of SSRIs is that while they may not address any or all of the causes of depression, they have certainly helped me to get through some of the bleakest days and maintain some level of functionality.

Getting back to the original post, I have no doubt that some women experience a crippling depression after giving birth. I'm not a physician, but it has been extensively documented. Most of these women, if given adequate support, make a good recovery and go on to enjoy their role as mothers immensely.

But (but) the OP, trolling or no, makes a rather interesting point, which is that any admission of guilt or regret around the decision to become a mother is entirely taboo in our culture. The very notion that a woman's depression in the immediate aftermath of giving birth could arise from a profound regret at the decision to become a mother is an anathema in our overwhelmingly pronatalist society. It's very interesting. The OP's theory is ludicrous in its generalisation, and one can safely assume that most women who suffer depression following the birth of a child will, thankfully, recover and be unfailingly content in their decision to become a mother. However, it seems equally reasonable that for some mothers at least, depression following childbirth may indeed arise from an absolute regret at an irreversible life decision which will take precedence over all other aspects of their lives, forever.

littlefriend

I wish this thread was deleted. I've had numerous spells of depression over the years but have been fine for the last 2 years or more. I'm currently 8 months pregnant - the father doesn't want to know and I can feel myself falling back into depression again. I'm terrified about what is to come and if I am going to be able to handle it and if not what will happen to us. This thread and another one in the newborn forum about breast feeding are making me feel worse about things than I already did. Is it possible to hide a thread the way you can hide a poster?

TheyKnowMyIP

littlefriend wrote: »

I wish this thread was deleted. I've had numerous spells of depression over the years but have been fine for the last 2 years or more. I'm currently 8 months pregnant - the father doesn't want to know and I can feel myself falling back into depression again. I'm terrified about what is to come and if I am going to be able to handle it and if not what will happen to us. This thread and another one in the newborn forum about breast feeding are making me feel worse about things than I already did. Is it possible to hide a thread the way you can hide a poster?

Sadly, I don't think deletion is going to happen. It may not even serve a purpose, because the content on this thread has the potential to be stored somewhere else. Once you put something out on the Internet, it does not go away.

Technically speaking, every time you view this page in your browser, the page is generally saved in the browser cache. Boards has no control over the content stored on computers connected to the Internet.

Micky Dolenz

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Sadly, I don't think deletion is going to happen. It may not even serve a purpose, because the content on this thread has the potential to be stored somewhere else. Once you put something out on the Internet, it does not go away.

Technically speaking, every time you view this page in your browser, the page is generally saved in the browser cache. Boards has no control over the content stored on computers connected to the Internet.

You've had more of enough of a say.

Don't post here again.

Wibbs

In fairness this is a very valid point from the poster and all too often forgotten in this facebook world.

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Once you put something out on the Internet, it does not go away.

And a point that more people should realise, before they commit their thoughts to the e-ether. It's not transient and it's not particularly anonymous either. The vulnerable need to know this and the more they know it the better.

K-9

Wibbs wrote: »

In fairness this is a very valid point from the poster and all too often forgotten in this facebook world.
And a point that more people should realise, before they commit their thoughts to the e-ether. It's not transient and it's not particularly anonymous either. The vulnerable need to know this and the more they know it the better.

True, hopefully it'll catch out the trolls in the long run, rather than vulnerable people being a little too honest now and again.

Micky Dolenz

Wibbs wrote: »

In fairness this is a very valid point from the poster and all too often forgotten in this facebook world.
And a point that more people should realise, before they commit their thoughts to the e-ether. It's not transient and it's not particularly anonymous either. The vulnerable need to know this and the more they know it the better.

Valid points are welcomed but when they are designed to smother open and honest discussion then they become problematic.

I think everyone realises what they post on the internet is traceable, traceable if someone has the know how and knowledge of your user name to search every word you write.

This shouldn't discourage people to open up, because even letting things out in this medium can be helpful. sometimes people need to hear that they aren't the only ones feeling the way they feel. People are rarely alone in how they feel, you can be sure other people have felt the same and have come through it.

I've read every word of this thread and feel it could potentially help some people. It would be a shame to let it get smothered if this were the case.

Novella

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Valid points are welcomed but when they are designed to smother open and honest discussion then they become problematic.

I think everyone realises what they post on the internet is traceable, traceable if someone has the know how and knowledge of your user name to search every word you write.

This shouldn't discourage people to open up, because even letting things out in this medium can be helpful. sometimes people need to hear that they aren't the only ones feeling the way they feel. People are rarely alone in how they feel, you can be sure other people have felt the same and have come through it.

I've read every word of this thread and feel it could potentially help some people. It would be a shame to let it get smothered if this were the case.

I know it sounds silly, but there are actually people who don't realise, or who just don't think, that what they write is traceable. I, personally, think it is advisable to be wary of what you post.

In my own experience, having posted both on this site and in an external blog about mental illness, being very forthcoming isn't always good. Sure, you get a lot of support but if you're in a delicate mind-frame, it can take only one negative comment to affect you.

Mental illness is still a sensitive subject and believe me, I am all for reducing and eradicating the stigma but first hand I know that there are users on this site (and not just on this site, there are people everywhere) who will see a post a person has made about their struggle or whatever and will then use that to mock them, belittle them etc.

It's all well and good to tell people to be honest and to be open but that's not necessarily a brilliant idea. Not online anyway. Not when it is so easy for others to make snide little remarks, to post from behind their computer screens trying to get at you.

Wibbs

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I think everyone realises what they post on the internet is traceable, traceable if someone has the know how and knowledge of your user name to search every word you write.

I strongly disagree MD and indeed think it a bit irresponsible to apply our subjective take on this to "most users". You may know, I may know, many people may know, but equally many do not realise this, or don't realise it to the extent they should. It has become too mainstream and non "geeky" these days. The interweb is awash with folks spilling their guts who clearly don't know and in the cold light of day realise this and regret it. I'm quite sure both of us have gotten PM's from same to delete stuff. I know I have and I have deleted same. Many times more than once. IMHO it can't be stated enough in this medium. Yes opening up can help people. Equally it can act as a trigger to others. Also it can act as a "let's have a laugh about X or Y person". There is a person behind that username. It would do us well to remember that at times.

Micky Dolenz

Novella wrote: »

It's all well and good to tell people to be honest and to be open but that's not necessarily a brilliant idea. Not online anyway. Not when it is so easy for others to make snide little remarks, to post from behind their computer screens trying to get at you.

I wasn't really advocating totally honesty but more an environment where things can be discussed without the fear of a constant, "you are making it up". I would mostly agree with your post.

Wibbs wrote: »

I strongly disagree MD and indeed think it a bit irresponsible to apply our subjective take on this to "most users". You may know, I may know, many people may know, but equally many do not realise this, or don't realise it to the extent they should. It has become too mainstream and non "geeky" these days. The interweb is awash with folks spilling their guts who clearly don't know and in the cold light of day realise this and regret it. I'm quite sure both of us have gotten PM's from same to delete stuff. I know I have and I have deleted same. Many times more than once. IMHO it can't be stated enough in this medium. Yes opening up can help people. Equally it can act as a trigger to others. Also it can act as a "let's have a laugh about X or Y person". There is a person behind that username. It would do us well to remember that at times.

In the context of this thread, it wasn't a friendly nudge to make somewhere aware to watch what you post but more an attempt to unsettle what could be an informative piece.

I am more then aware that there are people out there who are more then ready to have a cheap laugh at someone else's expense.

Maybe I am idealistic but I don't think irresponsible.

Sid_Justice

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I don't follow any other hypothesis, I am simply stating that the basis these SSRI drugs are prescribed under is highly questionable. The entire basis for Biological Psychiatry operates under the assumption that a deficiency in neurotransmitters is the cause of Depression. This is false.

If this wasn't the basic premise for prescription, that of a biochemical deficiency in certain neurotransmitters, why would the drugs be prescribed?

How to you account for Ads like the following? How long before Ads for PND depression as a chemical imabalance start to appear?

It's often the case that people from the physical sciences can't appreciate the subtleties of the biological sciences. Furthermore, they usually aren't aware of the scientific context of behavioural sciences. Indeed, it appears the practice of medicine is as much as craft as it is a process and as much an art as it is a science.

I think if you actually read the literature, rather than the knee-jerk soap-boxing of Internet extremists you'd have come to this revelation yourself.

The premise for the prescription of SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitors) and TCA (tricyclic antidepressants) isn't their hypothetical role in 'fixing biochemical imbalances' but rather it is because they work.

The evidence is clear, all of these drugs work, to some degree in affecting mood and behaviour. Retrospectively scientists of many creeds have tried to explain why and how they work and consequently, explain how depression works. The understanding is a work in progress, as are the drugs, and in 50 years we'll have completely different drugs and possibly completely different hypotheses as to why they work.

TheyKnowMyIP

Regardless, I don't think it's fair to mock the mentally ill. Bit rich coming from myself, but it's not a simple issue. The true cause of Depression will be found. Neurology is already on that case. Mark my words, they will find out what really causes Depression in the future. The chemical imbalance theory underpinning biological depression is in ways shaky.

Everybody screws up. Even in big ways. You cannot let most petty stuff from the past define your future. Everybody ****s up.The sheer number of drunken/revealing facebook photos out there reflects that. You may not be different.

Sid_Justice

is this about privacy on the internet now?

TheyKnowMyIP

Sid_Justice wrote: »

is this about privacy on the internet now?

Time to step it up a notch. For all my raving, the concept of Depression as a neurological disorder and not a chemical imbalance is worth looking into. I believe Neurology will hold the key to fully explaining why Depression is so common in society.

If we are to abandon the serotonin hypothesis, we require an alternative hypothesis to takes it's place. It's not good enough to simply state Depression does not exist. Not in a million years. The suicide rate in this country alone proves it's a real problem.

Chuck Stone

Wibbs wrote: »

One could more easily argue that they do help people, but for low to mid level cases(the majority) of unipolar depression it's due to the placebo effect. Rigorous scientific inquiry has also strongly suggested this. Therefore they help mostly through the action of placebo(hope if nothing else, strong emotion), not through the action on serotonin levels in the brain. With any other drug one could mention there is little chance they would be so widespread in clinical use if they were equal to placebo effect. Would you take an antibiotic that had the same efficacy as placebo? I doubt it. Who would? Hey I've no worries concerning the placebo effect(except for the impracticality of using it in a clinical setting). If it works it works, however placebos don't give nearly the same side effects as the drugs in question. Neither does counseling.

Totally this.

I have zero faith in anti-depressants as having anything other than a placebo/masking effect when it comes to depression - this is supported by scientific studies and is not merely my opinion btw.

However this stance often gets people's back up because they think that those who are sceptical of the efficiacy of anti-depressants are sceptical that people suffer with the symptomns that are described as depression.

There is absolutely no doubt that people suffer with these symptoms the ultimate expression of which is suicide. What I have a problem with is people being sold the idea that they were fixed by AD's rather than themselves. The AD's robs them of their achievement in a way.

Sid_Justice

This has become a genuine farce good luck.

TheyKnowMyIP

Chuck Stone wrote: »

those who are sceptical of the efficiacy of anti-depressants are sceptical that people suffer with the symptomns that are described as depression.

This is the main point to take from all this. Just because I rant and rave about the drug industry and their horrible practices, that is not enough to say mental illness isn't a problem. It's a very huge, poorly understood problem. Thankfully, with all the bad press these drugs have been recieving lately, a push to the real causes of mental illness is on the way.

I am 100% serious when I say the future for Depression and these problems lie not with Psychiatry, but with Neurology. Diseases have existed in nature before being understood fully. Why should this not be the case with Depression? It kills enough people every year. I am simply going by what has been already been reported in the media. None of this is the result of my own research. There is a sea of conflicting information on this topic "out there"

Millicent

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I am 100% serious when I say the future for Depression and these problems lie not with Psychiatry, but with Neurology. Diseases have existed in nature before being understood fully. Why should this not be the case with Depression? It kills enough people every year.

You refused to consider the evidence of the neuroscientist I linked you to who said that SSRIs were a treatment for depression.

Chuck Stone

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I am 100% serious when I say the future for Depression and these problems lie not with Psychiatry, but with Neurology.

Neurology may help people understand what is happening in the brain but, imo, it wouldn't produce a 'cure'. For me treating the symptoms known as depression would probably be better served by focussing more on the psycho-social elements of as person's life as well as looking at diet and exercise.