Will NAMA Developers ever pay for what they've done?

Slideshowbob

OK if they won't pay in money how else can they be made pay?

Or will it just be left to future tax payers?????

Are these guys walking away from massive debts relatively scot free?

Where is the justice?

cocoa123

Slideshowbob wrote: »

OK if they won't pay in money how else can they be made pay?

Or will it just be left to future tax payers?????

Are these guys walking away from massive debts relatively scot free?

Where is the justice?

Will we see the Financial Regulator brought to court or under investigation? It was supposed to protect seciety from property bubble pumping by bankers and developers. Are these guys walking away from their responsibility absolutely free?

Slideshowbob

cocoa123 wrote: »

Will we see the Financial Regulator brought to court or under investigation? It was supposed to protect seciety from property bubble pumping by bankers and developers. Are these guys walking away from their responsibility absolutely free?

Well that's another day's argument but when these guys signed for the loans didn't they take on certain responsibilities themselves??

If you talking about the regulator and government couldn't they in turn blame the lenders from abroad who lent into the Irish economy?!

cocoa123

No point to blame "lenders from abroad who lent into the Irish economy". It's their work to sell money. And it was our own Fin Reg and Gov responsibility to avoid the financial mess. Otherwise what for we need this Fin Reg?

Slideshowbob

cocoa123 wrote: »

No point to blame "lenders from abroad who lent into the Irish economy". It's their work to sell money. And it was our own Fin Reg and Gov responsibility to avoid the financial mess. Otherwise what for we need this Fin Reg?

Well we know now the Fin Reg didn't do his job so to what extent can he be held liable can you tell me? Is he personally responsble to the same extent a developer might be??

Legally isn't it a case of buyer beware when it comes to site purchases?!?

Anyway great to see how meaningfully the current Gov of Cen Bk is engaged: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/1022/1224306261531.html :rolleyes:

Nody

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Well that's another day's argument but when these guys signed for the loans didn't they take on certain responsibilities themselves??

No, the entity who signed were companies in general to ensure no/limited personal responsibility.

If you talking about the regulator and government couldn't they in turn blame the lenders from abroad who lent into the Irish economy?!

Not really; they could implement limits/requirements limiting the amount of borrowing percentage from valution, exposure limits to a certain area etc.

Spacedog

chain of command

Fin Reg was hobbled by the government to protect the interests of bankers and property developers.

Whenever a bank fucks up, and you ask the executives of that bank who is accountable, they always say something like "the financial regulators job to make sure we don't make those decisions".

The rest of the time ask a bank exec or a banking lobby group about the financial regulator, they will complain that the restrictions inhibit business and economic prosperity... bla bla

there is a simple difference between the perceived and real chains of command.

Perceived: banks answer to --> fin reg --> government
Real: finreg answers to --> government --> corporate donations/lobbyists --> banks

Slideshowbob

So who is to blame for the errors in company law?

And are valuers also to blame?

Nody

Slideshowbob wrote: »

So who is to blame for the errors in company law?

The adult population who keep on voting in the same politicians due to having fix a pothole a decade ago or simply being from the right family. That is were the ultimate responsibility lies; with the voter but of course that's not a popular view around here as it always has to be someone else's fault and never the voters fault...

And are valuers also to blame?

Strictly speaking it would depend on what you see their role as. Clearly the houses were selling for the outrageous amounts they quoted at the time but the mid/low long term value was also clearly lower (i.e. bubble). This goes back to the original question, what is their role? Is it to price it as a commodity with today's value or as a long term investment with a 30 year viewing range or something in between? Considering the number who kept on wanting to flip up I'd be inclined to take the first rather then the second as view (and for the second the long term value over 30 years should still be ok) and then they did their job correctly.

cocoa123

Nody wrote: »

The adult population who keep on voting in the same politicians due to having fix a pothole a decade ago or simply being from the right family. That is were the ultimate responsibility lies; with the voter but of course that's not a popular view around here as it always has to be someone else's fault and never the voters fault...
.

That's exactly the point.

snow ghost

Slideshowbob wrote: »

OK if they won't pay in money how else can they be made pay?

Or will it just be left to future tax payers?????

Are these guys walking away from massive debts relatively scot free?

Where is the justice?

Yes, these guys and others appear to be getting away essentially scot free.

There isn't any justice.

And, there wont be any justice until the Irish people make it known to those in power that it is completely unacceptable and we are not going to take it.

We the electorate are to blame tbh... and many people here still accept or tacitly condone the parish pump politics and all the other nod and a wink cronyism and corruption that will allow this injustice to continue.

MadsL

Not just developer's fault, they were lent stupid sums to speculate on nonsense schemes that were given planning permission by planners pushed by city managers under presseure from local councillers who by and large know fk all about planning. That's a recipe for where we are now.

If the like of An Taisce and other concerned groups had not said "enough" and taken planning appeals (often at personal expense) you would have a lot more in NAMA right now. These 'naysayers' were absolutely villianised during the bubble and are still now being given little credit for stopping some of the worst excesses on the mass group delusion.

I spoke with a local councillor recently elected who expressed the view that "Oh, An Taisce; they are just so conservative though aren't they?"

I naturally took her to task as to what a conservation body ought to be. Clueless. :rolleyes:

I fear nothing will change in this country.

Slideshowbob

MadsL wrote: »

I fear nothing will change in this country.

Things will change as we will never have credit as freely available again!

patwicklow

Owe them a couple of hundred million its no problem
Nama will take you out to dinner give you a cushy 200k a year job plus bonus.
Easy know it was set up to look after the corrupt and screw the working person.

Icepick

cocoa123 wrote: »

Will we see the Financial Regulator brought to court or under investigation? It was supposed to protect seciety from property bubble pumping by bankers and developers. Are these guys walking away from their responsibility absolutely free?

not free, with huge bonuses and pensions

rodento

How do they survive with so much dept, one would think their credit would dry up

gpjordanf1

Slideshowbob wrote: »

OK if they won't pay in money how else can they be made pay?

Or will it just be left to future tax payers?????

Are these guys walking away from massive debts relatively scot free?

Where is the justice?

Hardly!

When 2 of them as we speak are being paid 200k each by Nama for their expert advice and get this,they will be paid comission on any deals that come in on target. Was on the auld news this evening, nearly chocked on the auld dinner being honest!

So while you all digest that, I shall bid you a goodnight!

patwicklow

Its a total shame the way this country is being run..
Our fore fathers would turn in there graves whats going on.And the best of it is We the people know what goes on and just do feck all...