what did john terry say?

Sir Gallagher

amiable wrote: »

AFAIK Terry claims he just repeated what Ferdinand accused him of saying.

Racism is a criminal offence in England

Ah i see.

Criminal offence or not i think it would be ridiculous for him to be charged over that. But if it's the law of the land so be it.

amiable

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/John-Terry-racism-row-Chelsea-star-will-lose-England-captaincy-if-found-guilty-of-racial-slurs-article820572.html

John Terry could be stripped of the England captaincy if an FA inquiry finds him guilty of racially abusing QPR defender Anton Ferdinand.
Rangers called in the FA on Tuesday after holding talks with Ferdinand and the governing body announced later they would be investigating the ­incident.
Terry welcomed news of the probe and vowed to clear his name



Now we can reveal that Ferdinand’s version of events differssignificantlyfrom those offered by Terry in his statement on Sunday night.
Terry had insisted he was trying to clarify he had NOT used the term “f*****g black c**t”.
But when the pair clashed during Rangers’ 1-0 win over Chelsea on Sunday, Ferdinand is understood to have aimed a jibe at Terry relating to his marital life.
Crucially, it is believed Ferdinand did not actually HEAR Terry utter the words which were caught on camera.
He is said not to have mentioned the incident in the Rangers dressing room – and held peace talks with Terry for that reason.
Ferdinand only learned of Terry’s alleged slur when he was alerted to footage of it late on Sunday night.

And after a day to gather his thoughts, Ferdinand held talks with Rangers officials before the decision was taken to call in the FA.
Ferdinand is believed to have felt so strongly he insisted the FA’s anti-racism campaign would have been a sham had they not investigated.
Terry said: “I welcome the FA inquiry and look forward to clearing my name as soon as possible.”
The FA have charged Chelsea with failing to control their players against QPR and asked manager Andre Villas-Boas to explain comments made about referee Chris Foy, who booked seven Chelsea players and sent off two more.
*
Lord Herman Ouseley, chairman of the Kick It Out campaign:
“Not so long ago, players receiving racist abuse had to keep their heads down and bite their tongues when it came to reporting it. Through working with players, fans and governing bodies, Kick It Out has helped root this out.
“People have confidence that the game in general, from the authorities to referees, will be more proactive in bringing ­incidents to the fore.
“Players shouldn’t be put off from reporting abuse. The game has worked tirelessly to ensure structures are in place that allow racist abuse to be reported and for the perpetrator to be brought to book.”





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amiable

It would appear John Terry's explaination of events is very different to Anton Ferdinand's

monkey9

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Ah i see.

Criminal offence or not i think it would be ridiculous for him to be charged over that. But if it's the law of the land so be it.

I think it's a case of Terry claiming that Ferdinand accused him of calling him a 'black cvnt', and Terry responding along the lines of "i didn't call you a black cvnt". (with a bit more aggression in terms of the emphasis in how he responded and i'm sure, a few other swear words)

So what seems to have happened, (and this is my interpretation), tweeters have gone and accused Terry of racially abusing Ferdinand after seeing him say 'black cvnt'. And then some f*cking dickhead xfactor wannabe has made a complaint to the police after seeing it on tv.

But Terry is caught right on tv saying what he said so surely a lip reader can prove this?? Surely he or she can lip read what was said either side of the fatal words!!

wheres me jumpa

Racism is the new diving, point the finger when its a player at another club, defend the player constantly when he is one of yours.

RandolphEsq

monkey9 wrote: »

I think it's a case of Terry claiming that Ferdinand accused him of calling him a 'black cvnt', and Terry responding along the lines of "i didn't call you a black cvnt". (with a bit more aggression in terms of the emphasis in how he responded and i'm sure, a few other swear words)

That's what Terry said straight after the match, along with Anton Ferdinand and him clearing it up at the time. That should be what the investigation concludes. I hope they don't scalp him just for the sake of it. If Terry was a racist he wouldn't have made it so far in the Premiership for so long!

jaykay74

How very Daily Mail

So, Mr Evra and Mr Ferdinand, I know you feel insulted. But perhaps in this case you could just put up with it and get on with the game.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2052843/John-Terry-racism-row-Anton-Ferdinand-game.html

BaZmO*

RandolphEsq wrote: »

If Terry was a racist he wouldn't have made it so far in the Premiership for so long!

Look how far Big Ron made it.

Beefy78

From reading that quote in post.103 it doesn't look like Terry has anything to answer for. Ferdinand didn't hear him and is basing his complaint on Terry denying he was racist. WTFF?

amiable

Beefy78 wrote: »

From reading that quote in post.103 it doesn't look like Terry has anything to answer for. Ferdinand didn't hear him and is basing his complaint on Terry denying he was racist. WTFF?

So if that's the case surely that puts a huge question mark over Terry's justification for saying it if Ferdinand never heard it in the first place?

Boom_Bap

<snip>
I've removed my original post on this.

On a more serious note, myself and my father where watching the game and we both noticed that it looked like he mouthed a racist remark.

amiable

RandolphEsq wrote: »

If Terry was a racist he wouldn't have made it so far in the Premiership for so long!

This man got to the top of his Sport

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuDk50rFFgg

The quality of the picture is poor but it shows how society (certain parts) is still in the stoneage

Beefy78

amiable wrote: »

So if that's the case surely that puts a huge question mark over Terry's justification for saying it if Ferdinand never heard it in the first place?

Well there is that but we don't know what else was going on or who said what. There could have been any sort of miscommunication.

I've no love for Chelsea or John Terry but I really doubt he was making any racial comment in that situation in front of TV cameras and surrounded by Chelsea's black players. And if Anton Ferdinand is saying that he was oblivious to the whole thing then I'm not sure what any of this is achieving.

amiable

Beefy78 wrote: »

Well there is that but we don't know what else was going on or who said what. There could have been any sort of miscommunication.

I've no love for Chelsea or John Terry but I really doubt he was making any racial comment in that situation in front of TV cameras and surrounded by Chelsea's black players. And if Anton Ferdinand is saying that he was oblivious to the whole thing then I'm not sure what any of this is achieving.

IMO if it's true that Ferdinand didn't hear what Terry said then it probably means Terry is guilty as his defence is he was just repeating what Ferdinand said.

From what i have heard Ferdinand went to the Chelsea dressing room to aplolgize for insulting Terry(reference to the Wayne Bridge thing)
Apparently he didn't go there to sort out any racism allegations.

barone

two black lads call each other ***ger or whatever its grand,no charges or anything,no racism card bandied about..its slang even.


but if a white fella is even rumoured to have said it then the **** hits the fan..

let me get it right , blacks can say it to blacks, but whites arent allowed to say it ever... ? racist right?


im not saying black people wernt opressed for years and years im saying that it will only ever be a non issue if they stop making it one!

would a black lad be in trouble for calling me a white bas*tard for some percieved wrong doing on my ancestors behalf? not a chance in hell.



how could any professional footballer ever say it on a football pitch and expect to have a career in the game?

im no terry fan but it just dosent add up

everdead.ie

barone wrote: »

two black lads call each other ***ger or whatever its grand,no charges or anything,no racism card bandied about..its slang even.


but if a white fella is even rumoured to have said it then the **** hits the fan..

let me get it right , blacks can say it to blacks, but whites arent allowed to say it ever... ? racist right?


im not saying black people wernt opressed for years and years im saying that it will only ever be a non issue if they stop making it one!

would a black lad be in trouble for calling me a white bas*tard for some percieved wrong doing on my ancestors behalf? not a chance in hell.



how could any professional footballer ever say it on a football pitch and expect to have a career in the game?

im no terry fan but it just dosent add up

There is a huge amount of amount of Black people who hate that word hate when anyone uses it, don't let popular rap music make you think otherwise it's not the case.

Peyton Manning

barone wrote: »

two black lads call each other ***ger or whatever its grand,no charges or anything,no racism card bandied about..its slang even.


but if a white fella is even rumoured to have said it then the **** hits the fan..

let me get it right , blacks can say it to blacks, but whites arent allowed to say it ever... ? racist right?


im not saying black people wernt opressed for years and years im saying that it will only ever be a non issue if they stop making it one!

would a black lad be in trouble for calling me a white bas*tard for some percieved wrong doing on my ancestors behalf? not a chance in hell.



how could any professional footballer ever say it on a football pitch and expect to have a career in the game?

im no terry fan but it just dosent add up

That's rap music and ghetto culture. These people also do drugs, shoot people and treat women like objects.

Actually between Adrian Mutu, Ashley Cole and John Terry, Chelsea are the new wave NWA.

Blatter

The reason why it originated that SOME blacks call use racist terms within their own community has got to do with a display social power.

Words such as n****** are used by certain blacks as they now own the word and not say Ron Atkinson.

I personally don't agree with them using it, but the context within they are using it is completely different to when a white person says it and it's important to understand that.

Neil3030

#15 wrote: »

I often wonder why some people feel the need to have a whinge at whites not being allowed use the N-word.

The injustice of it all. It's so unfair:rolleyes:

I mean, do people actually want to use it? Or do they genuinely not see the difference between a white person using the word and a black person using the word?

Not that it should be acceptable either way, but it's so blindingly obvious that there is a massive difference in the two scenarios.

I agree, but at the same time the exclusivity of a word's use amongst one group serves to strengthen the divide between communities and races. The message of "this is our word, only we can use it and you can't", implies that there is a tangible distinction between black and non-black. Surely this is not the way society should be heading?

Neil3030

#15 wrote: »

I agree, which is why I said it's not acceptable either way.

However, a white person using the word is more offensive than a black person using the word IMO.

Yeah ideally nobody uses it indeed. But my particular gripe is with black people who seek equality but who still use "the word", thereby furthering inequality.

Though I'd imagine such people are a rarity.

barone

#15 wrote: »

I often wonder why some people feel the need to have a whinge at whites not being allowed use the N-word.

The injustice of it all. It's so unfair:rolleyes:

I mean, do people actually want to use it? Or do they genuinely not see the difference between a white person using the word and a black person using the word?

Not that it should be acceptable either way, but it's so blindingly obvious that there is a massive difference in the two scenarios.

roll your eyes elsewhere,nowhere did i say i wanted to use the word so stop with the condescending crap ok

its not just in LA the use it in gangs or rap,,english blacks use it aswell , my point was simple.

they should stop using it themselves if they dont want others to use it,being all over tv/movies/music encourages it.. and its blacks doing it!

understand

barone

#15 wrote: »

Gangs or rap?

How representative do you think they are?

well let me see... rap is one of the biggest selling music genres in the us,which has the biggest market also,and highest publicity.. so its all over the airwaves,

regardless of what i think its what people hear


read the posts and stop flaming the thread please, my point is pretty valid.

DOC09UNAM

barone wrote: »

#15 wrote: »

Gangs or rap?

How representative do you think they are?

my point is pretty valid.

It really really isn't.

M5

Could someone please direct me to the football forum?

El Weirdo

As far as I can see, no one is accusing Terry of saying "n*gger", so why is everyone talking about the word in this thread?

Blatter

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/John-Terry-racism-probe-Three-QPR-players-set-to-give-evidence-backing-Anton-Ferdinand-article821629.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

New twist increases pressure on Terry



The John Terry race row is set to take an explosive new twist as it emerged that up to THREE players are giving evidence to the FA backing Anton Ferdinand.

It is also understood that Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand is supporting his younger brother - with both refusing to accept offers from Terry to discuss the matter.

The players' mum Janice is believed to have been left deeply upset by the footage in which Terry appears to direct the words "f****** black c***" in her son's direction.

She is understood to have seen the YouTube clip on Sunday night, when Anton had been alerted to its
existence.


Terry had claimed he was trying to clarify that he had NOT used the slur as an insult aimed at QPR defender Ferdinand.

But Clint Hill, the Rangers PFA representative, has been joined by Paddy Kenny and Shaun Derry in insisting – as Mirror Sport revealed – that Ferdinand had not made such an allegation in the first place.

Terry continues to categorically deny claims of racism and maintain that he welcomes the FA inquiry.

But evidence is now appearing to pile up against him refuting the version of events he put forward in his swift statement on Sunday night.

The refusal of the Ferdinand brothers to speak to him suggests they have no interest in backing him up.

And that could spell big trouble for England boss Fabio Capello with the prestige friendly against Spain coming up on November 12.

Capello stripped Terry of the captaincy over allegations that he had a relationship with the former partner of ex-Chelsea left-back Wayne Bridge, handing the armband to Ferdinand snr.

The Italian then reversed that decision earlier this year.

But Terry, as England captain, going into the Spain game could prove a PR disaster for the FA with the entire build-up set to centre around the racism allegations.

Former England striker Les Ferdinand, cousin of Anton, believes Terry should not be allowed to play for England again if found guilty.

The Spurs coach insists punishments for footballers in similar cases have been “paltry” recently and the FA “need to make a statement” if Terry is found guilty.

Les Ferdinand said: “It’s down to the FA, but I’d be shouting from the rooftops [for that if he’s found guilty].”

If it's true that those three players are going to testify against Terry's version of events, things just got very serious for him.

niallk

jaykay74 wrote: »

How very Daily Mail



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2052843/John-Terry-racism-row-Anton-Ferdinand-game.html

What an article.
It starts out slagging an entire race of people for being racist. :pac:
Goes on to describe how the anti-racism campaign has gone "beyond the point of boredom".

The next paragraph starts "This is not to deny that it has been a long hard road for black footballers." One would think that he would now list the hardships black players endures but instead lists black stereotypes: lightweight and by comparison to whites unsteady and not dependable. The next paragraph's a gem: "Black players in England had to work against the assumption that they would crack swiftly under pressure, a view that helped them get a particularly rough reception from opposing team." The writer uses these stereotypes to justify the abuse before he describes any abuse. :pac:

Oh wait, he doesn't actually describe any abuse but rather mentions some "taunting". The abuse he does mention is preceded by a tale of nice Sunday roasts, bringin' your 'ol gran round to the footy, generole' cockney comradry, yeah? Then comes a justification for why Nwanko Kanu might receive some abuse. Then comes someone calling him a "black bastard". Ah but this is the nice modern English polite racism, for "The bloke leaped up and wheeled round 180 degrees in the same movement, shoved his face straight in front of my mother’s, and said in firm and formal tones: ‘I’m terribly sorry about the racist comment.’":pac:

In conclusion, it says it could be worse. The last paragraph makes this sound more like a threat that an observation.

Brilliant, like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kRnA8BLrCg

pistolpetes11

Blatter wrote: »

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/John-Terry-racism-probe-Three-QPR-players-set-to-give-evidence-backing-Anton-Ferdinand-article821629.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter




If it's true that those three players are going to testify against Terry's version of events, things just got very serious for him.

Sure it would not be like the rags to make up a story !

QPR have come out and said it was rubbish , none of the 3 will be giving evidence now nor in the future .

They should be held accountable for the constant lies !

I am hearing Ashley Cole will give evidence in defense of JT , came from the shed so not sure how true that is either.

amiable

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Sure it would not be like the daily fail to make up a story !

QPR have come out and said it was rubbish , none of the 3 will be giving evidence now nor in the future .

They should be held accountable for the constant lies !

I am hearing Ashley Cole will give evidence in defense of JT , came from the shed so not sure how true that is either.

Is Cole not just going to say he didn't hear anything?

But Terry has admitted he said it and that contradicts things.

Plus there's the video evidence.

pistolpetes11

amiable wrote: »

Is Cole not just going to say he didn't hear anything?

But Terry has admitted he said it and that contradicts things.

Plus there's the video evidence.

The context of what he said is how he is backing him , but this could be rubbish, as is most of the other speculation .

Cole was stood beside them for the incident , which gives me reason to think this might just be taken out of context , I know he is a bit thick but throwing out racist abuse with one of your own black team mates beside you does not add up.

amiable

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

The context of what he said is how he is backing him , but this could be rubbish, as is most of the other speculation .

Cole was stood beside them for the incident , which gives me reason to think this might just be taken out of context , I know he is a bit thick but throwing out racist abuse with one of your own black team mates beside you does not add up.

There's always going to be rumours i suppose.

Tabloids were wrong to print about the 3 QPR players.
Shaun Derry wasn't even on the pitsch AFAIK when it happened.

QPR suffered themselves from the tabloids towards the end of last season when they reported rubbish

pistolpetes11

amiable wrote: »

There's always going to be rumours i suppose.

Tabloids were wrong to print about the 3 QPR players.
Shaun Derry wasn't even on the pitsch AFAIK when it happened.

QPR suffered themselves from the tabloids towards the end of last season when they reported rubbish

I was the first to say if JT came out and racially abused the lad he should be finished but vice versa there needs to be accountability or the other side of the fence .

The rags kicking up a huge storm should be held accountable for reporting lies like has been seen in the mirror this morning .

If evra can't provide evidence against Suarez he should be held accountable and as harshly as if Suarez was found guilty . He has made the claim which now seems to be without evidence and should have the book thrown at him , I find it as bad to make an accusation without evidence as mud sticks

Same goes for kanoute against cesc

Essien

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

The context of what he said is how he is backing him , but this could be rubbish, as is most of the other speculation .

Cole was stood beside them for the incident , which gives me reason to think this might just be taken out of context , I know he is a bit thick but throwing out racist abuse with one of your own black team mates beside you does not add up.

This is it in a nutshell for me. As silly as JT may be, it just doesn't make sense that he would openly shout this well within earshot of Ashley Cole (and most likely a few others), while being filmed by tv cameras no less.

Then we have the whole thing with Saurez and Evra just last week which would be fresh in the minds of all the players and evidently the fans minds too. The players know the extent that the authorities and public will go to to catch you if you start shouting racist abuse.

stesaurus

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

I was the first to say if JT came out and racially abused the lad he should be finished but vice versa there needs to be accountability or the other side of the fence .

The rags kicking up a huge storm should be held accountable for reporting lies like has been seen in the mirror this morning .

If evra can't provide evidence against Suarez he should be held accountable and as harshly as if Suarez was found guilty . He has made the claim which now seems to be without evidence and should have the book thrown at him , I find it as bad to make an accusation without evidence as mud sticks
Same goes for kanoute against cesc

So if someone gets racially abused unless they have concrete evidence they should stfu??? You're taking a very black and white view of things.

What about sexual abuse?

Blatter

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Sure it would not be like the rags to make up a story !

QPR have come out and said it was rubbish , none of the 3 will be giving evidence now nor in the future .

They should be held accountable for the constant lies !

I am hearing Ashley Cole will give evidence in defense of JT , came from the shed so not sure how true that is either.

Typical of the rags eh. Ridiculous that they can make up so sh*te and get away with it. :rolleyes:

pistolpetes11

Blatter wrote: »

Typical of the rags eh. Ridiculous that they can make up so sh*te and get away with it. :rolleyes:

Are you telling me the story this morning by the mirror was truthful and QPR are lying when they came and denied the story now and that it wont be happening in the future ?

On the Sex Abuse ,

Strange grounds to be threading upon , but again I firmly believe you cant go around making accusations without back up or proof and if you do, that you should be susceptible of the ramifications , IE (Civil/libel case or wasting Garda time charge )

I am not that well versed on the laws of the land but I believe you always need evidence to back up your claims or you are leaving yourself open to recourse .

Blatter

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Are you telling me the story this morning by the mirror was truthful and QPR are lying when they came and denied the story now and that it wont be happening in the

No you took me up wrong, I was having a go at the Mirror.

pistolpetes11

Blatter wrote: »

No you took me up wrong, I was having a go at the Mirror.

Woops my bad , When I seen the BERBA smiley I was thinking the other way

Spazdarn

Anton's comments today fuelled it worse with his non comment approach and his thanks for the support nonsense. You only get support for fellow professionals if you're a victim not if nothing has happened.

tim_holsters

Terry isn't a racist.

amiable

tim_holsters wrote: »

Terry isn't a racist.

While i totally agree innocent until proven guilty but would you care to elaborate?

tim_holsters

amiable wrote: »

While i totally agree innocent until proven guilty but would you care to elaborate?

He's the captain of a multicultural team (2 in fact), whilst that doesn't exclude him from being a racist I would imagine that if it was the case something would have got out by now. That's what I think anyways, very few racists in Premier League teams I'd say.

amiable

tim_holsters wrote: »

He's the captain of a multicultural team (2 in fact), whilst that doesn't exclude him from being a racist I would imagine that if it was the case something would have got out by now. That's what I think anyways, very few racists in Premier League teams I'd say.

Being the captain of a team(2 in fact) never stopped him from doing something bad to one of his team mates before.

tim_holsters

amiable wrote: »

Being the captain of a team(2 in fact) never stopped him from doing something bad to one of his team mates before.

So Terry has consensual sex with a woman who happens not to be his wife and from that you would have us believe that there's good reason to presume that Terry may be a racist. That is what you're implying.

amiable

tim_holsters wrote: »

So Terry has consensual sex with a woman who happens not to be his wife and from that you would have us believe that there's good reason to presume that Terry may be a racist. That is what you're implying.

Is it? I think you need to take the time to re read the thread again.

You are implying that Terry can't possibly be a racist because he has team mates that are black.

You also omitted to mention that said woman was the partner of a team mate of his which is very relevant to the post i quoted from you.

I've stated already innocent until proven and guilty(and in the Chelsea thread)

But to just come on here and make a sweeping statement like you did without giving a reason initially is a bit silly.

pistolpetes11

One of the lads in work said this to me today :

"Is there any difference in calling someone a Black c**t than say a White c**t"

DOC09UNAM

tim_holsters wrote: »

amiable wrote: »

Being the captain of a team(2 in fact) never stopped him from doing something bad to one of his team mates before.

So Terry has consensual sex with a woman who happens not to be his wife and from that you would have us believe that there's good reason to presume that Terry may be a racist. That is what you're implying.

Well that and the fact he's clearly video'd saying black ****, and hasn't denied saying black ****

tim_holsters

amiable wrote: »

Is it? I think you need to take the time to re read the thread again.

You are implying that Terry can't possibly be a racist because he has team mates that are black.

You also omitted to mention that said woman was the partner of a team mate of his which is very relevant to the post i quoted from you.

I've stated already innocent until proven and guilty(and in the Chelsea thread)

But to just come on here and make a sweeping statement like you did without giving a reason initially is a bit silly.

Fair enough I should have given a reason in my first post why I don’t think Terry is a racist but I have done so since.

I didn’t say that Terry couldn’t possibly be a racist what I did do was give reasons why I don’t believe him to be one. Why would I need to mention that said woman was the partner of a team mate of his, even the dogs in the street know its Bridge.

We don’t know the exact details of the relationship between Terry and Bridge and the woman involved no one does. Why should we it’s no one’s business but theirs.

But you were implying that because Terry had a consensual affair with a woman that somehow this makes it easier to believe that Terry could be a racist. This is clearly ridiculous.

amiable

tim_holsters wrote: »

But you were implying that because Terry had a consensual affair with a woman that somehow this makes it easier to believe that Terry could be a racist. This is clearly ridiculous.

Did I? I don't think so.

You said he wouldn't do anything bad to a team mate.

I showed you he would and could and has.

That is all. I never claimed that's grounds for him being a racist.

Why would a player on over 100k per week accept 10k cash to give a private tour?
Why would Terry park in disabled parking spots?
Terry has a habit of doing stupid things it seems.

Again this doesn't prove he's a racist.
I hope he isn't actually and i hope it gets sorted sooner?

The game could do without this press

Sgt Pepper 64

Terry to wear a "Why always me?" shirt tomorrow?