Is a macbook worth the money?

Liameter

tibor wrote: »

here's an example of a Mach-O file infector on OSX from 2006...

Nice one. You managed to find ONE example of something that *might* have been classed as a self-replicating virus, had it ever been released "in the wild" (it wasn't). It was a "proof of concept".

Let's keep it real? Let's stick to *real* threats and, to keep it realistic and in proportion, let's compare each type of malware "threat" in the wild for MacOSX with the number of equivalent threats for Windows.

So far you've managed:

MacOSX Viruses currently in the wild: 0
Windows Viruses currently in the wild: 568 (figure from Wildlist).

MacOSX Trojans currently in the wild: 5
Windows Trojans currently in the wild: Let's be kind and say "hundreds" because I can't find an exact figure but I suspect it's more than that.

By far the worst threat is "phishing emails" and it doesn't matter what platform you use.

tibor

Way to move the goalposts.
You said there were no viruses for OSX, and then reasserted that claim resorting to pedantism over the semantics of the term "virus".
I have shown you that there are many different types of malware including file infecting viruses on OSX.
End of discussion.


Regarding OP, I like my Macbook very much, well worth the extra cash.

partyatmygaff

Larger userbase = Larger software catalog = More people familiar with the OS = Greater number of malware.

Just because no one cares enough to write malware for Mac OS X doesn't make it any more secure than Windows.

Hobbes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Just because no one cares enough to write malware for Mac OS X doesn't make it any more secure than Windows.

http://daringfireball.net/2011/05/wolf (nice list of claims of attacks that never happened)

Mac OSX is built with security at its core. Windows7 is probably the closest to it now.

The only real viable attacks are social based ("You might infected! Run this now!"), but requires admin password to activate. Apple are now requiring (soon) all apps on the Appstore to be sandboxed. This means if they are infected, they are very limited on what damage they can actually cause.

partyatmygaff

Hobbes wrote: »

http://daringfireball.net/2011/05/wolf (nice list of claims of attacks that never happened)

Mac OSX is built with security at its core.

Windows7 is probably the closest to it now.

If by security at its core you mean "Low market penetration" then i'd agree with you. If Mac OS X had anywhere near the same market penetration as Windows then it would have similar if not worse problems.

The only real viable attacks are social based ("You might infected! Run this now!"), but requires admin password to activate. Apple are now requiring (soon) all apps on the Appstore to be sandboxed. This means if they are infected, they are very limited on what damage they can actually cause.

Limited in what damage they can cause and limited in their capability. A 21" iPad with a mouse and keyboard is essentially the what Apple appear to be going towards with regards to the iMac.

conor.hogan.2

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Limited in what damage they can cause and limited in their capability. A 21" iPad with a mouse and keyboard is essentially the what Apple appear to be going towards with regards to the iMac.

How is it limited?

osx itself is not limited and a mac is especially not in fact it is the only laptop you can do everything on (install/use any os, and iOS development etc).

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

How is it limited?

osx itself is not limited and a mac is especially not in fact it is the only laptop you can do everything on (install/use any os, and iOS development etc).

This new Sandbox mode that they're pushing in the App Store is what I called limited. Not Mac OS X itself.


BTW, in case you weren't aware, Macs aren't the only laptop you can do "everything" on. PC Laptops have been able to run Mac OS X for ages now.

Sad Professor

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Limited in what damage they can cause and limited in their capability. A 21" iPad with a mouse and keyboard is essentially the what Apple appear to be going towards with regards to the iMac.

That's rubbish! Developers don't have to use the Mac App Store if they don't want to. Apple aren't going to lock down the Mac. Unlike Microsoft, they understand the difference between a tablet and a personal computer.

partyatmygaff

Sad Professor wrote: »

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Limited in what damage they can cause and limited in their capability. A 21" iPad with a mouse and keyboard is essentially the what Apple appear to be going towards with regards to the iMac.

That's rubbish! Developers don't have to use the Mac App Store if they don't want to. Apple aren't going to lock down the Mac. Unlike Microsoft, they understand the difference between a tablet and a personal computer.

Yet they're the ones pushing for an Apple-screened app store selling sandboxed applications.

It's pointless arguing with Apple fans. Your irrational dislike of all things MS and dressing up of your platform's weaknesses as strengths clouds your judgement.

syklops

silvine wrote: »

Yes because:
They're well built and have lots of nice features e.g a 'fantastic to type on' keyboard
OSX is more reliable and less prone to viruses than Windows
The Macbook air is one of the lightest, fastest laptops available
The Macbook Pro 17" with SSD is a beast
They're 'headturner' machines or as another posted put it the 'Ferrari' of laptops
They work particularly well with other Apple products
Other laptop manufacturers look to Apple when designing their machines e.g. multi-touch gestures

No because:
Comparatively speaking, hardware wise it's cheaper to buy a Windows machine
There's a limited selection of games for OS X
You are buying into Apple's 'We Know Best' ethos i.e. the walled garden, F*CK Blu-Ray etc.
They're not as easy to upgrade or customise as other machines

That said: I can't imagine buying any other type of laptop.

Im a bit drunk so bear with me.

Yes because:
They're well built and have lots of nice features e.g a 'fantastic to type on' keyboard Hardware wise, and keyboard wise there are many as good if not better non-Apple laptops outthere
OSX is more reliable and less prone to viruses than Windows
You mean Unix, which OSX is built off of, is more reliable and less prone to viruses. Other Unixes, include Linux and BSD.
The Macbook air is one of the lightest, fastest laptops available
True, but there are others in the running.
The Macbook Pro 17" with SSD is a beast
As is any other high performance laptop with SSD, with High performance OS
They're 'headturner' machines or as another posted put it the 'Ferrari' of laptops
They are fashionable among apple-philes. My Lenovo with my Fedora and RHEL stickers on it have had heads turn too.
They work particularly well with other Apple products
Well who'd a thunk it that Ford wheels might work well with Ford Cars
Other laptop manufacturers look to Apple when designing their machines e.g. multi-touch gestures
I'd like to know how many potential laptop buyers want multi touch in their laptop over all the other things they consider, when buying


No because:
Comparatively speaking, hardware wise it's cheaper to buy a Windows machine
There is no such thing exactly as a windows machine. There is Apple, which builds Apple hardware and installs the Apple OS onto it, and there is everything else. Everything else tends to be compatible with Windows, as they are the largest OS creator, but the hardware quality can vary.
There's a limited selection of games for OS X
That's just because they are still a minority, wait 10 years
You are buying into Apple's 'We Know Best' ethos i.e. the walled garden, F*CK Blu-Ray
You have the same with Microsoft. So many people were unhappy being forced to move to Vista and 7 from XP which was a mature OS, but M$ said, no, we are terminating support for it. And instead of changing the backend, but keeping the frontend, which lets face it most users care about, similar to XP, they made cosmetic changes too meaning more training courses, and pardon my cynicism, more money for them.

was.deevey

PC Laptops have been able to run Mac OS X for ages now.

Correction: SOME other laptops have been able to run OSX for ages and with a great deal of "ahem" Security risk, Dicking with kexts, needing to install third party Wireless cards etc, etc...

The Mac however runs Windows and other OS's perfectly :P

Hardware wise, and keyboard wise there are many as good if not better non-Apple laptops out there

Please do share and compare

You mean Unix, which OSX is built off of, is more reliable and less prone to viruses.

Yes and the point being ?

True, but there are others in the running.

Name and price ? other manufactures have not been able to beat the price vs performance/build ratio

I'd like to know how many potential laptop buyers want multi touch in their laptop over all the other things they consider, when buying

Its not all about one feature though is it really though?

Its about the entire package, thats what you buy when you get a Mac... its a system, a well oiled machine where everything works together not just another computer with any ol' OS thrown on it, but an OS designed around a small subset of hardware....

With a Mac you get the lot, looks, reliability, speed, battery life, ease of use and a pretty damn big hardware feature set regardless if you use all of them or not.

Hobbes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

If by security at its core you mean "Low market penetration" then i'd agree with you. If Mac OS X had anywhere near the same market penetration as Windows then it would have similar if not worse problems.

So you didn't read the link I posted then. Oh well.

Sad Professor

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Yet they're the ones pushing for an Apple-screened app store selling sandboxed applications.

I don't think you get it. The Mac App Store is not the only way to download apps. Sandboxing offers many security and stability benefits to the user. The Mac App Store is aimed at people who want to download apps without worrying about what effect that app wil have on the rest of their system. For the rest of us, we're free to download our non-sandboxed apps with "greater capabilities" from developers website.

It's pointless arguing with Apple fans. Your irrational dislike of all things MS and dressing up of your platform's weaknesses as strengths clouds your judgement.

If anyone is being irrational in their dislike of something here it's you. All I said about MS is that they don't understand the difference between a tablet and a computer, which is true. MS just just want to slap a touch-screen interface on Windows and put it on a tablet. There's no evidence to suggest, as you did, that Apple want to turn the iMac into a giant iPad.

Zimmerframe

partyatmygaff wrote: »

A 21" iPad with a mouse and keyboard is essentially the what Apple appear to be going towards with regards to the iMac.

You make a nonsensical statement like that, and then call Apple fans irrational.

partyatmygaff

Sad Professor wrote: »

I don't think you get it. The Mac App Store is not the only way to download apps. Sandboxing offers many security and stability benefits to the user. The Mac App Store is aimed at people who want to download apps without worrying about what effect that app wil have on the rest of their system. For the rest of us, we're free to download our non-sandboxed apps with "greater capabilities" from developers website.

I'm well aware. I just fail to see how sandboxing only a small subset of an OS' software catalog is a security feature. The way I see it is that Apple eventually want to make the app store the only way to download and install apps for the iMac/Macbook. They've seen the billions they've made with the app store on their portable devices and want to extend it to their desktops and laptops using the "security feature" thing to slowly get people used to the idea of an app store before phasing out manual install. That's just my take on it from what I can see in the Mac App store.

If anyone is being irrational in their dislike of something here it's you.

I don't hate Mac OS X. It's not a bad OS by any means but I certainly wouldn't use it over Windows. I use Mac OS X at least a few times every week and it works more or less perfectly adequately. It's not that it does what it does worse than Windows, it's just that Windows has the capability to do more and is a much more flexible OS.

All I said about MS is that they don't understand the difference between a tablet and a computer, which is true. MS just just want to slap a touch-screen interface on Windows and put it on a tablet.

You're judging an OS by a developer preview? It's not even in the beta stages yet. In any case Metro UI can be disabled in the developer preview.

There's no evidence to suggest, as you did, that Apple want to turn the iMac into a giant iPad.

I wasn't talking about the UI, I don't know where you even got the idea I was talking about the UI. I'm talking about the way applications are installed on the OS. With this app store selling Apple-approved sandboxed apps it appears to me that they eventually want to make the App Store the only way to download and install Apps for Mac OS X. Sure it could kill off a few power users from their userbase but they don't really represent the vast majority of Mac OS X users. The revenue they would make from a desktop/laptop App store would more than make up for the loss of a few power users from their userbase.

440Hz

Ok ye've all gone OT here. This isn't a Mac vs PC thread. Or at least it is not supposed to be.

partyatmygaff

440Hz wrote: »

Ok ye've all gone OT here. This isn't a Mac vs PC thread. Or at least it is not supposed to be.

He did ask if it was a waste of money buying a Macbook instead of a PC Laptop so it is in a round-about way sort of a Mac vs PC thread.

For the record, the only Macbook Air worth its price is the Macbook Air. The rest are grossly overpriced and have far superior PC counterparts at the same price point.

Colonel Panic

Well that's your opinion. Do you expect, on a Mac forum that you could come in, say that and we'd all sell our Macs?

It's also ridiculous you'd think people with Apple computers would hate Microsoft. Why would they? All products have zealous fans, Apple are no different. It has NOTHING to do with the products!!!

partyatmygaff

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Well that's your opinion. Do you expect, on a Mac forum that you could come in, say that and we'd all sell our Macs?

No, I'm just trying to answer the OP's question. If you've already bought a Mac then you're fine as is.

It's also ridiculous you'd think people with Apple computers would hate Microsoft.Why would they? All products have zealous fans, Apple are no different. It has NOTHING to do with the products!!!

Strange... So there are reasons for being a fan of Apple that don't relate to their products?

Colonel Panic

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. The products have nothing to do with boring Apple zealots or people like you who just don't get it.

partyatmygaff

Colonel Panic wrote: »

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. The products have nothing to do with boring Apple zealots or people like you who just don't get it.

So why the hell do people "like me" and boring Apple zealots discuss Apple? The only thing to love/hate Apple for is their products.

Hobbes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The rest are grossly overpriced and have far superior PC counterparts at the same price point.

Don't want to get drawn into a Mac vs PC, but I wanted to respond on this point.

When I bought an Apple product I factored in everything. I could save rakes of cash if I just bought the parts and built the machine from scratch.

However I value my time and I also want to factor in full peace of mind/support/backing up process and dealing with crap that pops up from time to time (trojan/viruses/other applications messing).

I bought the bottom of the range mac mini and then within a month switched over to the top of the range one. The realization that in that month that sitting at the machine wasn't working with an operating system to get stuff done, but just getting stuff done.

Also at the same time Apple support have been excellent right out of the gate. Versus my run ins with Dell / others they win hands down.

I got my mother a Mac 3 years ago, it is still working fine. I have only had 1 incident I had to fix for her in those 3 years. Prior that I was checking her windows machine every 1-2 weeks.

Form factor is just a bonus.

Now as for prices ... Apple store refreshes every couple of months. While PC vendors are continually refreshing. So at the time of a release of a new product in Apple you will not find anything with the exact same spec for less cash. However wait 2-3 months and the story is different.

The MBA is probably the exception as I don't believe there is anything that matches it for specs/design for much cheaper (I may be wrong).

So when people go on about how PCs are much cheaper, they don't factor in all the extra stuff that comes with it.

AlmightyCushion

Hobbes wrote: »

as for prices ... Apple store refreshes every couple of months. While PC vendors are continually refreshing. So at the time of a release of a new product in Apple you will not find anything with the exact same spec for less cash. However wait 2-3 months and the story is different.

The MBA is probably the exception as I don't believe there is anything that matches it for specs/design for much cheaper (I may be wrong).

So when people go on about how PCs are much cheaper, they don't factor in all the extra stuff that comes with it.

Not necessarily, the MacBook pro just had a refresh and yet the €1200 Samsung series 7 is a slightly higher spec than the 15" MacBook pro. It has a similar design (looks nicer in my opinion but the MacBook pro is still a fine looking thing), touchpad, screen and battery life. I've used the lower specced series 7 and even it is a great machine even compared to the MacBook pro.*

*Edit: I mean in terms of screen, touchpad, design etc and not processor, graphics etc. Don't want people thinking I consider the lower specced series 7 to be better than the pro.

partyatmygaff

Hobbes wrote: »

Don't want to get drawn into a Mac vs PC, but I wanted to respond on this point.

When I bought an Apple product I factored in everything. I could save rakes of cash if I just bought the parts and built the machine from scratch.

However I value my time and I also want to factor in full peace of mind/support/backing up process and dealing with crap that pops up from time to time (trojan/viruses/other applications messing).

When you've considerably less applications available to install you'll have considerably less chance of encountering a rogue application. As for saving cash, you're talking about a desktop Mac not a Macbook.

When it comes to the Macbook, the hardware is good, the software is nothing special but the price is much too high for it to be considered good value for money.

I bought the bottom of the range mac mini and then within a month switched over to the top of the range one. The realization that in that month that sitting at the machine wasn't working with an operating system to get stuff done, but just getting stuff done.

How exactly is "getting stuff done" on a Windows machine any more difficult than on a Mac? Give me something specific.

Also at the same time Apple support have been excellent right out of the gate. Versus my run ins with Dell / others they win hands down.

Dell... They sell €350 Celeron powered plasticky laptops and €3000+ mobile workstations. The cheapest laptop that Apple sells is the standard Macbook which starts at about €1000.

If you buy a €1000 Dell Latitude you get excellent service from Dell. I would know as I used to have one.

The same goes for most other premium laptops with a few exceptions here and there.

I got my mother a Mac 3 years ago, it is still working fine. I have only had 1 incident I had to fix for her in those 3 years. Prior that I was checking her windows machine every 1-2 weeks.

Windows machines don't develop faults by themselves. They develop faults through user error. People clicking on every ad they see and blindly installing everything that comes in their way will obviously run in to issues with Windows. With greater freedom comes a responsibility to know what you're doing.

Now as for prices ... Apple store refreshes every couple of months. While PC vendors are continually refreshing. So at the time of a release of a new product in Apple you will not find anything with the exact same spec for less cash. However wait 2-3 months and the story is different.

Untrue. Apple almost always is behind the competition in terms of hardware spec even at launch.

The MBA is probably the exception as I don't believe there is anything that matches it for specs/design for much cheaper (I may be wrong).

There's the Samsung Series 9 and the new wave of ultrabooks due to be released this month. They're not that much cheaper though.

So when people go on about how PCs are much cheaper, they don't factor in all the extra stuff that comes with it.

Such as?

DubDJ

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Dell... They sell €350 Celeron powered plasticky laptops and €3000+ mobile workstations. The cheapest laptop that Apple sells is the standard Macbook which starts at about €1000.

If you buy a €1000 Dell Latitude you get excellent service from Dell. I would know as I used to have one.

The same goes for most other premium laptops with a few exceptions here and there.

Just wanted to butt in on this point. I've always been a Windows user all my life & just recently, in the last few months, started using Mac (Now have a MBP).

I bought a €1,200 Dell XPS which suffered with an inherent defect. It took me 3 months, 1 extremely rude call from Tech support, 1 registered letter before court action, 20+ calls to and from head office, 10+ emails, 3 separate repair attempts (2 collected, 1 house call), and after finally offering €400 compensation they cancelled the collection of the laptop 3 times and delayed it over a week and a half. So for 3 months I went without a proper laptop.

I highly disagree with your point that buy a premium laptop from any company and get premium service/customer care. The fact that I dealt with just about every aspect of Dell and they all we're a disgrace to the company just shows how bad they really are.

With Apple i've never had to contact them with a problem yet. I'm using Mac since February, have an iPad since March and an iPhone since 2009. It's not a very long time but friends who have had small problems with either an iPhone or a Mac have received excellent service and never charged for a repair.

I can't see myself going back to using a Windows machine after the problems i've had over the years with them an then the ordeal with Dell. I've become a big fan of Apple products and think i'll be staying put where I am unless something better comes along.

partyatmygaff

DubDJ wrote: »

Just wanted to butt in on this point. I've always been a Windows user all my life & just recently, in the last few months, started using Mac (Now have a MBP).

I bought a €1,200 Dell XPS which suffered with an inherent defect. It took me 3 months, 1 extremely rude call from Tech support, 1 registered letter before court action, 20+ calls to and from head office, 10+ emails, 3 separate repair attempts (2 collected, 1 house call), and after finally offering €400 compensation they cancelled the collection of the laptop 3 times and delayed it over a week and a half. So for 3 months I went without a proper laptop.

I highly disagree with your point that buy a premium laptop from any company and get premium service/customer care. The fact that I dealt with just about every aspect of Dell and they all we're a disgrace to the company just shows how bad they really are.

An XPS is not a latitude. One is a "premium" consumer product that isn't really all that premium and one is a business product.

DubDJ

partyatmygaff wrote: »

An XPS is not a latitude. One is a "premium" consumer product that isn't really all that premium and one is a business product.

My mistake, because it wasn't business aimed it isn't classed as premium? For €1,200 it is to me anyway. Compared to most other Windows laptops on the market, it is a very high price tag. One of the most expensive on the Dell site next to Alienware. I'd consider that premium.

Also like to point out you used a €1,000 laptop as an example, mine was more expensive and you said: "The same goes for most other premium laptops". Doesn't matter that it wasn't a Latitude. It's still a premium price tag.

partyatmygaff

DubDJ wrote: »

My mistake, because it wasn't business aimed it isn't classed as premium? For €1,200 it is to me anyway. Compared to most other Windows laptops on the market, it is a very high price tag. One of the most expensive on the Dell site next to Alienware. I'd consider that premium.

Also like to point out you used a €1,000 laptop as an example, mine was more expensive and said: "The same goes for most other premium laptops". Doesn't matter that it wasn't a Latitude. It's still a premium price tag.

Fully specced out it's €1200. It starts at around €550-€599 which is pretty mainstream.

Looking at Dell's website the XPS 15 starts out at €599. The 15" Macbook Pro starts out at €1,799. That's a €1,200 difference in starting price. It's ridiculous to compare the two.

Liameter

partyatmygaff wrote: »

An XPS is not a latitude. One is a "premium" consumer product that isn't really all that premium and one is a business product.

I think this thread is about Macbooks?
Therein lies the difference. ALL of Apples products are "Premium".

partyatmygaff

Liameter wrote: »

I think this thread is about Macbooks?
Therein lies the difference. ALL of Apples products are "Premium".

Yes, we're all aware.


That's why the only valid comparisons that can be made are those that put the Macbook up to Windows laptops of the same class. I'm sick of hearing the usual fallacious "Windows laptops suck in comparison to Macbooks. I used to have a €350 Acer Aspire and it was crap. I then bought a €1,799 Macbook Pro and it rocked so therefore Macbook > All"

noworries

partyatmygaff wrote: »

... I'm sick of hearing the usual fallacious "Windows laptops suck in comparison to Macbooks. I used to have a €350 Acer Aspire and it was crap. I then bought a €1,799 Macbook Pro and it rocked so therefore Macbook > All"

Stop listening to the voices dude - they go away if you ignore them ;-)

For the OP. I have not really heard of anyone who has either grown up on, or switched to, Apple Computer products say that they made an incorrect decision in opting for Apple.

For the same money you will certainly get a beast of a x86 machine, probably more powerful. At the end of the day - you pays your money and you live with your choices or not... there is always something better just around the corner no matter which tech you opt for.

What you have to understand is - it's ALL about the data and what you do with it that's important. The rest is just for kiddies to exercise their e-peen, regardless of which side of the 'argument' they are on.

When your purchasing power is such that it does not really matter if you save a couple a'hundred on something that is going to last you a good few years (more than 3) no one else's opinion matters a f***. or do what I have done.
In my house, we have 3 MBP;s iPad, Dell XPS(Windows XP), self-built server (Ubuntu), self-built gaming rig(Windows 7 -my 5th). Each one loved, cherished and used everyday by someone in my family.

---

Sent from my iPad or my XPS - does it really matter????

I've being using macs a while, and windows since 3.1, and many other *nix systems.

Macs are well designed and I find I'm very productive on them.

As for the price, I've purchased a couple of similar machines with the de-facto MS OS on them, and they age a lot quicker and on one occasion a Mobo on a €1200 Vaio went lights out after 13 months, it's only value was to remove the Ram and HD as Sony wouldn't accomodate me.

Anyways, I be more leaning to *nix systems, I prefer their Filesystems, memory management, etc to MS.

As for security, one would be foolish to think that Macs are failsafe, as far as I'm aware the only system out there which had no viruses written for, was open VMS (I'm open to correction on this). Regardless of whatever system your running an application layer firewall is a must.

Are they worth the money, it depends on what you want from it, what you do on it, and are you more productive on it, and for me, I do think they are worth the money.

Sad Professor

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The way I see it is that Apple eventually want to make the app store the only way to download and install apps for the iMac/Macbook. They've seen the billions they've made with the app store on their portable devices and want to extend it to their desktops and laptops using the "security feature" thing to slowly get people used to the idea of an app store before phasing out manual install. That's just my take on it from what I can see in the Mac App store.

You are not the only one who thinks this, but it isn't going to happen. It would destroy the Mac. As I said, Apple know the difference between a tablet and a computer. There's no reason for them to lock down the Mac like that, and there's nothing to suggest they will.

And Apple's profits from the App Store are very small. They definitely aren't making billions from it. Like the iTunes Store, they see it as a feature to make their hardware more appealing. Their goal with it is mostly to break even. I suspect they make a nice profit from it, but not enough to justify turning the Mac into a closed platform like iOS.

I wasn't talking about the UI, I don't know where you even got the idea I was talking about the UI. I'm talking about the way applications are installed on the OS. With this app store selling Apple-approved sandboxed apps it appears to me that they eventually want to make the App Store the only way to download and install Apps for Mac OS X. Sure it could kill off a few power users from their userbase but they don't really represent the vast majority of Mac OS X users. The revenue they would make from a desktop/laptop App store would more than make up for the loss of a few power users from their userbase.

I wasn't talking about the UI either. By saying that Apple wanted to turn the iMac into a giant iPad you were suggesting that Apple are going to lock-down the Mac, which as I said is rubbish and isn't going to happen.

Apple are a hardware company. They make nearly all their profits from selling hardware, not selling music or apps. Screwing their Mac users isn't the way to sell more computers.

This is a pie chart of where Apple's revenue comes from



The iTunes and App Store is part of "Other".

So lets say Mac sales dropped by several percent as a result of turning it into a closed platform. Do you really think Mac App Store sales would make up for that? I don't think so.

JohnSmith17

A good question is to ask a mac owner would they buy an other one in the future and I personally think most people would say "Yes"

Hobbes

They aren't the same though (re: Series 7). The Samsung is heavier, chunky, noisier and doesn't have the exact same specs (eg. Thunderbolt).

Hobbes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

When you've considerably less applications available to install you'll have considerably less chance of encountering a rogue application.

I can only assume this is a troll comment. Next you will be telling me there are no games for the Mac and that I can only use a one button mouse.

Hobbes

DubDJ wrote: »

I bought a €1,200 Dell XPS which suffered with an inherent defect. It took me 3 months, 1 extremely rude call from Tech support, 1 registered letter before court action, 20+ calls to and from head office, 10+ emails, 3 separate repair attempts (2 collected, 1 house call), and after finally offering €400 compensation they cancelled the collection of the laptop 3 times and delayed it over a week and a half. So for 3 months I went without a proper laptop.

I had almost the same issue with Dell. 3 Months of daily calls to support and having to listen to being asked the exact same steps, long wait times and when transferred the previous engineer forgets everything.

It took threats of the small claims court and mailing a diary of exact dates/times of the three months to get a machine that worked.

Dell Premium support on the other hand would be on par with Apple support.

Hobbes

One last thing for the OP. Macs hold their value very well.

Sold an earlier Mac Mini for 200 euros less then I bought it (a year old) and within a week of putting up for sale.

Compare that to a gaming rig I was selling worth over 2K at the time and less then 6 months old. I ended up selling that for 1K a few months after I put up for sale, but not before getting inundated with people asking me to strip the machine to bits and sell those bits at a greatly reduced cost.

DubDJ

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Fully specced out it's €1200. It starts at around €550-€599 which is pretty mainstream.

Looking at Dell's website the XPS 15 starts out at €599. The 15" Macbook Pro starts out at €1,799. That's a €1,200 difference in starting price. It's ridiculous to compare the two.

Well put it like this. I buy a €1,200 euro laptop off Apple, either a MacBook Pro starter model, MacBook Air or whatever it is it's still the price I'm paying. I get exellent customer service and support on an already solid machine. They often repair out of warranty too for free.
I buy a €1,200 laptop from Dell, which I personally have, I get terrible customer service even though I display to them its an inherent defect and they must sort it for free. I got through a 3 month ordeal with them too.

There's my point right there. Specs are irrelevant to my point as I'm taking price wise.

So OP that's my personal experience of bad customer from one side and good customer service from the other. It's these added extras like piece of mind you get with an Apple Laptop. People sometimes don't factor it in when calling Apples MacBook over priced. But the extra money you pay up front is worth the extra's like this you get from Apple.

AlmightyCushion

Hobbes wrote: »

They aren't the same though (re: Series 7). The Samsung is heavier, chunky, noisier and doesn't have the exact same specs (eg. Thunderbolt).

The series 7 is smaller and lighter.

From Apple's website:

Size and weight

Height:0.95 inch (2.41 cm)
Width:14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Depth:9.82 inches (24.9 cm)
Weight:5.6 pounds (2.54 kg)1

From Samsung's website:

Dimension (WxDxH) 362.1 x 238.5 x 23.9mm (14.2" x 9.3" x 0.94")
Weight 2.29kg (5.04lbs)

I don't know about noise but any review I seen of the series 7 didn't mention it as a bad point so I imagine it isn't that loud relatively speaking. Sure while the series 7 doesn't have thunderbolt it does have usb 3 and expresscache. Of course they're not exactly the same. Either of them will have features that are better than the other.

Freddie59

JohnSmith17 wrote: »

A good question is to ask a mac owner would they buy an other one in the future and I personally think most people would say "Yes"

In a heartbeat. I used PCs from 1998 until June last year, when I bought an quad-core i7 iMac. Almost 18 months later not an hour of bother.I have w7 installed via Parallels. When I first installed w7 it was very fast. The usual shyte happening now. Slowing down, ages to close, etc.

The Mac? No different. 50 seconds to working desktop - 10 seconds to shut down (alright, it was 7 seconds when I got it - I'll give you that):D.

Cards on the table here. Anyone who knows me would confirm I'd be far from a fanboy. I don't have an iPhone, don't use iTunes in the main (odd purchase here & there).

But this thing is so reliable it's unbelievable. Never hangs doing video (a crucifixion on any PC I ever owned). It just works. Full stop. The overall build is fantastic; the display quality unbelievable.

I suppose the only thing that would prevent a future purchase (which won't be for another four years or so) would be the cost. They ARE expensive. No two ways about it. But I would most definitely recommend them.

440Hz

This argument is drawing to a close! I'll give this thread another 24 hours and if the same vibe continues, and the same reports keep coming in, then it's gonna be locked. Wrap it up please folks.

mickoneill30

My last 2c so.
Also as a disclaimer I work in IT so I'm more technical than the average user, hopefully.

In my opinion (only an opinion, don't shoot me), if you're more technically minded a Windows or Linux machine is the better buy. A lot of the issues mentioned above never happen to me or for the people I set up PCs for. For home I use stuff like Photoshop, Dreamweaver and a pile of video apps. For work and for anybody I've installed a PC for I don't think they're huge power users. For me I can get the same productivity out of a cheap Windows machine as I can with an Apple machine. So I wouldn't pay more.

If you don't know what you're doing with Windows and buy an Apple PC it won't magically make you productive. You have to put in the effort to learn that OS too. There's one girl in my office that bought a MacBook for working on documents. She uses OpenOffice and keeps on complaining about the "Mac" not being compatible with Windows. I know (and I've told her) it's OpenOffice but whatever she's gained productivity wise by getting an Apple she's lost by skimping on the software.
There's another girl who was doing a graphics course. She was told that Macs were better so bought one. She was used to Windows and came in complaining about the Mac. It wasn't the Macs fault. I had little interest in helping her as she was high maintenance and I'm not familiar enough about them. She sold her Mac and bought a €400 PC. I set it up for her and she bought her software. She was way more productive then and was badmouthing the Mac. It wasn't that Windows was better, it was just better for her.

The support from Dell that the guys are talking about about is disgraceful. And it shouldn't be typical. I buy the cheapest PCs going for work. Typically about €360 ex VAT for something without a monitor. Over the last two years we've been buying HP. The support is excellent. Out of about 80 PCs bought in the last couple of years I've had to replace the motherboard on one. The guy (from India I think) talked me through the troubleshooting and had the motherboard with me a day later. I had to replace that myself which a lot of users probably wouldn't like. I wasn't on the phone for hours and the problem was resolved in a couple of days. This is on a PC that cost about €380. A few months ago I had a problem with WiFi on a laptop. The problem was a connector on the WiFi chip not plugged in. Our laptops are typically less than €500+VAT. We don't buy pricey stuff here. The only other problems we get with the laptops is cracked screens when idiots drop them or treat them roughly. I'd prefer they do that on a cheap HP than an expensive Mac. They're the only two times I can remember having to ring HP in the last year. We bought Lenovo before (wouldn't ever touch them again).

We have PCs here that are 7 years old. I had one guy contact me saying his PC was running slow. I did a systeminfo and saw it was installed in 2004 :eek:
We have laptops that are ancient but do the job. I would like to replace our PCs every 3 - 5 years but I can't due to constraints on spending so I'm stuck with old stuff. But the old stuff is working well enough.

That is what I mean about technical users. Our PCs are updated frequently and have up to date AV on them. Most importantly they're not admins of their PC. Some of them are but only the guys we trust not to install every app they find on the internet. If you're an admin and know what you're doing or if your a user who doesn't have a clue and also is not an admin then the Windows PC should last for ages.
Although I gave my folks (the most non technical people in the universe) an old laptop a couple of years ago. It's about 5 years old now. They just use it for surfing, watching video, the odd bit of MS Office work and email. It's still going fine and has needed no support from me. They're admins on the laptop.

I don't hate Macs or love Windows. I just want a tool to help me with my job or to use at home so for me spending the extra for a Mac isn't worth it.

Colonel Panic

mickoneill30 wrote: »

My last 2c so.
Also as a disclaimer I work in IT so I'm more technical than the average user, hopefully.

In my opinion (only an opinion, don't shoot me), if you're more technically minded a Windows or Linux machine is the better buy.

<snip>

Ha, I don't get this argument at all. It's got nothing to do with being technically minded or not, it's about liking the products and OS.

The OP's question was are they worth the money. The answer is that they products are well made, last long and hold their value well. If you can afford one and want one, it's worth the money!

You're entitled to your opinion, but prefixing it with the fact that you work in IT doesn't give it more credibility!

mickoneill30

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Ha, I don't get this argument at all. It's got nothing to do with being technically minded or not, it's about liking the products and OS.

My answer is from an IT technical perspective. I don't buy an OS just because I like it. I buy it because it's functional. If you're buying it because you like it then fine. They're all functional but technically I want the product that does the most for the least cost.

I wasn't saying it to give me more credibility. To imply that is a bit daft. I'd say most people who read my post would understand that.

Colonel Panic

Then why say it at all?

Plus, you haven't really said why it's better from a technical perspective, you just go on to talk about some girl who got a Mac and didn't want to learn the differences so she sold it!

Regarding functionality, Windows and OS X are about as functional and stable as each other these days. Plus liking how something works is a valid deciding factor!

440Hz

mickoneill30 wrote: »

In my opinion (only an opinion, don't shoot me), if you're more technically minded a Windows or Linux machine is the better buy.

Fair opinion, but just to balance it out, I am a comp sci researcher, so pretty technical lol, (that's not meant as a qualifier either, just balancing the reply), I would always choose Mac. I use all three on a daily basis. In the toss up between Mac and Windows, Mac is infinitely more reliable, in my experience, plus it is just a nicer user experience all round. Many other Mac users in my department agree.

At the end of the day it is simply every individual's personal choice. Some people love Mac and are happy to pay the price for the quality they expect. Others, are happy not to have that extra little sheen and don't pay the money. However, I don't know anyone that I have recommended to switch that has regretted it. Once you go Mac, you never go back

mickoneill30

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Then why say it at all?

Oh ffs. I thought the post was long enough. I did go on to say about supporting Windows PCs in work. That is technical for me.
For me if I bought a Mac I'd have a pile of programs I'd have to switch back to Windows for. I know I can do that on a Mac, but for me, why pay extra to use Windows on a Mac when I've no problems with Windows machines.

mickoneill30

440Hz wrote: »

Fair opinion, but just to balance it out, I am a comp sci researcher, so pretty technical lol, (that's not meant as a qualifier either, just balancing the reply), I would always choose Mac. I use all three on a daily basis. In the toss up between Mac and Windows, Mac is infinitely more reliable, in my experience, plus it is just a nicer user experience all round. Many other Mac users in my department agree.

That's fair enough.

Colonel Panic

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Oh ffs. I thought the post was long enough. I did go on to say about supporting Windows PCs in work. That is technical for me.

Heh, no worries man. I'm just asking, not trying to give you grief!