Attitude towards Sinn Féin

n32

First off I m not a Sinn Fein supporter but I m a keen follower of events in the North. I was reading the Sunday Independent yesterday and was taken aback by the amount of anti Sinn Fein articles in it. Eoghan Harris was talking about taking the opportunity to kick Sinn Fein out next Thursday and John Drennan had similar sentiments. In fact the Irish Indepenent and the media in general have been equally scathing of Sinn Fein during this campaign.
Now my question is as follows: During the troubles we always heard the cry of politicians and activists for the republican movement to ''leave the gun behind and go down the democratic route''. To their credit McGuinness and Adams have gone down the democratic route and contested elections. Yet still the media are insisting on treating them as second class citizens and saying they have no right to contest high office or be in government down here. If society demands that they go down the democratic route then they should be treated as equals when they do.

maccored

to be honest, I doubt SF give a toss what the papers say. They've always had massive opposition especially from the more established media, press and political parties. That'll never change.

jonniebgood1

I think they do deserve great credit but the attitude of the general public is more important than the Sunday Independent. The general attitude would seem to be that a SF President would not be a good thing at this time. I think that is fair enough. The credit they get is for making peace in NI and to get anywhere in the Republic they need to broaden their appeal.

drunkmonkey

Martin Mc Guinness is running as an independent not for SF.

Tazz T

The article in the Sunday Times on MMG by Brian Appleyard was appalling. Condesending an imperialistic, it seemed to be more an attack on the Irish than MMG.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Snakeblood

n32 wrote: »

If society demands that they go down the democratic route then they should be treated as equals when they do.

They have the same rights including the right to stand for election, and also the right not to be elected because people don't want to vote for them.

Penny Dreadful

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

And as with all other candidates they must be ready to have their past, past actions and associations examined and questions asked.
Personally I find the past actions of SF, Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness et al deplorable.

COYW

n32 wrote: »

In fact the Irish Indepenent and the media in general have been equally scathing of Sinn Fein during this campaign.

The media down have every right to question and query SF. Given the responses received from SF, I can't see that changing any time soon.

walrusgumble

n32 wrote: »

First off I m not a Sinn Fein supporter but I m a keen follower of events in the North. I was reading the Sunday Independent yesterday and was taken aback by the amount of anti Sinn Fein articles in it. Eoghan Harris was talking about taking the opportunity to kick Sinn Fein out next Thursday and John Drennan had similar sentiments. In fact the Irish Indepenent and the media in general have been equally scathing of Sinn Fein during this campaign.
Now my question is as follows: During the troubles we always heard the cry of politicians and activists for the republican movement to ''leave the gun behind and go down the democratic route''. To their credit McGuinness and Adams have gone down the democratic route and contested elections. Yet still the media are insisting on treating them as second class citizens and saying they have no right to contest high office or be in government down here. If society demands that they go down the democratic route then they should be treated as equals when they do.

Eoghan Harris was once, an intelligent man.

But he is a crank and a dangerous one at that. He is still bitter, from his association / time in another Republican Fraction, the Sinn Féin Workers Party. He is also highly predictable, yet prone to flip flop.

Media outlets like these are against Republicanism and don't want their cosy situation untouched (as if it would be affected in a free democratic world anyway). Sure if the SDLP were in power or seeking power down here, they would probably try and find a reason to hate them

I suppose another argument could be made is that established politicians don't like how Sinn Féin can make statements on say United Ireland, Left wing niceties etc which, they can't back up, yet with the cult of Republicanism take more votes away from the established groups.

Pand

I found Harris's accusation that RTE was doing a "Disservice to democracy" by not using every oppurtunity to attack McGuinness highly ironic considering he couldn stop moaning a few years about the "Undemocratic media witch hunt" on his old pal Bertie.

KeithAFC

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

I think they do deserve great credit but the attitude of the general public is more important than the Sunday Independent. The general attitude would seem to be that a SF President would not be a good thing at this time. I think that is fair enough. The credit they get is for making peace in NI and to get anywhere in the Republic they need to broaden their appeal.

SF didn't make peace in Northern Ireland by themselves. Going by Martin mcguinness and what he has said in recent weeks, you would think Sinn Fein stopped the whole thing themselves and came up with the Good Friday Agreement by themselves.

That is probably one of the many reasons people hate them.

cardwizzard

KeithAFC wrote: »

SF didn't make peace in Northern Ireland by themselves. Going by Martin mcguinness and what he has said in recent weeks, you would think Sinn Fein stopped the whole thing themselves and came up with the Good Friday Agreement by themselves.

That is probably one of the many reasons people hate them.

Well this is wrong. All I hear is him saying the work I have done with Paisley and Robinson in the peace agreement. I'll vote for him, but even I'm fed up hearing this!


Typical anti Martin post.

drunkmonkey

KeithAFC wrote: »

That is probably one of the many reasons people hate them.

He's not hated on either side of the border Keith, you need to also remember and i'm sure your well aware of it but this is a peaceful period in the North it does not necessarily mean lasting peace has being achieved. All it takes it a few rouge Unionists or Republican and the love kickstarts again.

McGuinness is trying to bring about lasting peace along with others. The only way I see that happening is a 32 country republic. Not something Unionists ever want to see happen but something that will never go away until fixed. Mc Guinness in the Aras can push that agenda along. Something I think your very afraid might happen if he gets elected. Rightly so I don't blame you but the reason i'm voting for him is the very reason you would vote against him if you were entitled to vote which you should be. McGuinness will give you that vote.

astrofool

Whatever about the past, SF's current policies are batsh*t insane, and would destroy the country. Until they stop going after the cheap vote, then they'll be, rightly, disregarded by the general electorate, and media.

SF need to make it about their policies for running the country, not a tirade against "west brits".

KeithAFC

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He's not hated on either side of the border Keith, you need to also remember and i'm sure your well aware of it but this is a peaceful period in the North it does not necessarily mean lasting peace has being achieved. All it takes it a few rouge Unionists or Republican and the love kickstarts again.

McGuinness is trying to bring about lasting peace along with others. The only way I see that happening is a 32 country republic. Not something Unionists ever want to see happen but something that will never go away until fixed. Mc Guinness in the Aras can push that agenda along. Something I think your very afraid might happen if he gets elected. Rightly so I don't blame you but the reason i'm voting for him is the very reason you would vote against him if you were entitled to vote which you should be. McGuinness will give you that vote.

A 32 county Republic will not bring a lasting peace in Ulster. It will if anything make it worse.

Godge

n32 wrote: »

First off I m not a Sinn Fein supporter but I m a keen follower of events in the North. I was reading the Sunday Independent yesterday and was taken aback by the amount of anti Sinn Fein articles in it. Eoghan Harris was talking about taking the opportunity to kick Sinn Fein out next Thursday and John Drennan had similar sentiments. In fact the Irish Indepenent and the media in general have been equally scathing of Sinn Fein during this campaign.
Now my question is as follows: During the troubles we always heard the cry of politicians and activists for the republican movement to ''leave the gun behind and go down the democratic route''. To their credit McGuinness and Adams have gone down the democratic route and contested elections. Yet still the media are insisting on treating them as second class citizens and saying they have no right to contest high office or be in government down here. If society demands that they go down the democratic route then they should be treated as equals when they do.

Your post does not make sense. It is impossible to be a keen follower of events in the North and also be taken aback by anti-Sinn Fein articles unless you only started following events in the North in the last few weeks.

To many Irish people, Sinn Fein are a party that they can never vote for because of their role as apologists for and supporters of the murders of many innocent people. A casual look at their website and its links or their newspaper and other publications will show you why they are abhorred by many decent ordinary people.

Now you can say that those decent ordinary people are wrong (that is what debate is about) but to come on here and say that you are taken aback by it displays extreme naivety at the minimum and/or a clear lack of understanding of the general Irish public. Look at why McGuinness is dropping like a stone - failure to answer questions about the murders of McCabe and Kelly.

They were told to get involved in the democratic process in order to show up whether they had real support. The fact that having dropped the IRA baggage and embraced the peace process and still remained a minority party shows that Sinn Fein/IRA never had any real support for their murdering and thuggery.

BTW, they are being treated as equals in the democratic process. They have put themselves forward and they are being told we don't want your sort of murderers representing us. A pity they didn't listen thirty years ago, a few more people might be alive.

sparkling sea

Godge wrote: »

To many Irish people, Sinn Fein are a party that they can never vote for because of their role as apologists for and supporters of the murders of many innocent people. A casual look at their website and its links or their newspaper and other publications will show you why they are abhorred by many decent ordinary people.

Now you can say that those decent ordinary people are wrong (that is what debate is about) but to come on here and say that you are taken aback by it displays extreme naivety at the minimum and/or a clear lack of understanding of the general Irish public. Look at why McGuinness is dropping like a stone - failure to answer questions about the murders of McCabe and Kelly.

They were told to get involved in the democratic process in order to show up whether they had real support. The fact that having dropped the IRA baggage and embraced the peace process and still remained a minority party shows that Sinn Fein/IRA never had any real support for their murdering and thuggery.

BTW, they are being treated as equals in the democratic process. They have put themselves forward and they are being told we don't want your sort of murderers representing us. A pity they didn't listen thirty years ago, a few more people might be alive.

One would have to wonder if McGuinness has any respect for the position of President at all, it seems he is just using his democratic right to stand for an apolitical position, to publicise Sinn Fein.

washman3

KeithAFC wrote: »

SF didn't make peace in Northern Ireland by themselves. Going by Martin mcguinness and what he has said in recent weeks, you would think Sinn Fein stopped the whole thing themselves and came up with the Good Friday Agreement by themselves.

That is probably one of the many reasons people hate them.

Thats rubbish Keith. i have listened to most of his interviews and he has never claimed this. during Saturday's debate with Charlie Bird on RTE radio he constantly referred to Peter Robinson. Just be fair.;)

washman3

astrofool wrote: »

Whatever about the past, SF's current policies are batsh*t insane, and would destroy the country.

So the country is not already destroyed??

Either you,or me have lived in a cave for the last 3 years.
Did Bertie,2 Brians,Harney,McCreevey along with their cronies from the Galway Tent combine with the Bankers and regulator bring this nation to its knees??

RandomName2

n32 wrote: »

During the troubles we always heard the cry of politicians and activists for the republican movement to ''leave the gun behind and go down the democratic route''. To their credit McGuinness and Adams have gone down the democratic route and contested elections. Yet still the media are insisting on treating them as second class citizens and saying they have no right to contest high office or be in government down here. If society demands that they go down the democratic route then they should be treated as equals when they do.

1. Qualifications for office: giving up terrorism for political office.
2. Qualification for approbation: See 1.

Being prepared to live in peace with former terrorists is a bit different from accepting a power grab on their part.

We all know how outrageously biased the Sunday Indo is at this stage.

jimmycrackcorm

Until Sinn Fein come into the centre right that is the Irish public then they will be continually derided for their viewpoints.

Capt'n Midnight

KeithAFC wrote: »

A 32 county Republic will not bring a lasting peace in Ulster. It will if anything make it worse.

The Unionists could have held the balance of power since most governments are coalitions.

ReefBreak

Sinn Féin have members of their party that are connected with the murders of innocent men, women and children. End of story.

I'm amazed that people are so surprised as to why the Shinners are hated so much.

maccored

People are free to hate Shinners as much as they wish. As a self confessed Shinner, I'd like to assure you though, that I love everyone

ReefBreak wrote: »

Sinn Féin have members of their party that are connected with the murders of innocent men, women and children. End of story.

I'm amazed that people are so surprised as to why the Shinners are hated so much.

astrofool

washman3 wrote: »

So the country is not already destroyed??

Either you,or me have lived in a cave for the last 3 years.
Did Bertie,2 Brians,Harney,McCreevey along with their cronies from the Galway Tent combine with the Bankers and regulator bring this nation to its knees??

How could a country with such a high rate of welfare and such an overpaid public sector "be on it's knees". SF's plan is to restore the previous even higher rates, and go back to the markets and pay 15%+ interest rates on what we borrow.

If you want to see a destroyed country, you need to travel elsewhere, or go to NI during the troubles.

golfball37

Im in my 40's and voted SF for the 1st time in February. The big 3 establishament parties here do not represent in any way the Irish people and the way we roll behind them when they call SF terrorists and robbers at all costs is very damaging. Even today Sean gallaghers defence is souding like Michael Lowry. No Gards were killed or banks robbed in this production. WTF. the country cannot turn a blind eye to the corruption just becasue SF murdered people 15 years ago. Can nobody see the wood through the Trees here?

The real tragedy about this country is that SF are the only real alternative to the state sponsored sponging we are seeing from the big 3 at the moment.

Until the Irish race grow a pair and challenge their masters we'll continue to be financally raped by our betters.

20055371

golfball37 wrote: »

Im in my 40's and voted SF for the 1st time in February. The big 3 establishament parties here do not represent in any way the Irish people and the way we roll behind them when they call SF terrorists and robbers at all costs is very damaging. Even today Sean gallaghers defence is souding like Michael Lowry. No Gards were killed or banks robbed in this production. WTF. the country cannot turn a blind eye to the corruption just becasue SF murdered people 15 years ago. Can nobody see the wood through the Trees here?

The real tragedy about this country is that SF are the only real alternative to the state sponsored sponging we are seeing from the big 3 at the moment.

Until the Irish race grow a pair and challenge their masters we'll continue to be financally raped by our betters.

I'm turned off by the whole IRA bombings and punishment beatings etc.
But it is hard not to agree with you!

gerbilgranny

I don't usually see The Sunday Independent, but had a look at it in my in-laws' house today.

I was shocked to see the references to SF today. Honestly didn't think such unbalanced reporting existed in this country!

Sunnyisland

gerbil granny wrote: »

I don't usually see The Sunday Independent, but had a look at it in my in-laws' house today.

I was shocked to see the references to SF today. Honestly didn't think such unbalanced reporting existed in this country!

Yep and most sundays is the same,Its not a news paper as such now, as it doesn't give news but personal opinions from a very one slanted bias viewpoint and God help anyone in there way.

Liam Byrne

gerbilgranny wrote: »

I don't usually see The Sunday Independent, but had a look at it in my in-laws' house today.

I was shocked to see the references to SF today. Honestly didn't think such unbalanced reporting existed in this country!

That's probably because you don't usually see the Sindo - it's chronic, and not just in the supposed "west brit" mindset - in general.