The Truth about Ireland's Puppy farms - tomoro @ 10pm TV3

DBB

caseyann wrote: »

DBB wrote: »

It was not. The presenter specifically said at the start of the show that "most" dog owners in Ireland cared well for their dogs.
Personally, I don't agree, but I wanted to correct an untrue assertion you're making about the show.

I didnt make any assertion i read from the other poster.

Did you see the show?

caseyann

DBB wrote: »

Did you see the show?

If you cared to read what i said and what i quoted and why i said what i said,
you would know that answer.

Zapperzy

lrushe wrote: »

Was a bit disappointed that health testing wasn't mentioned once during the programme. The breeder of the Shelties seemed to have done most things right but she never mentioned any health testing she had done before breeding her dogs therefore I don't think she should have been held up as a model breeder.

I noticed that too, I think they mentioned that her dog was a champion but said nothing other than that about shows either. So to your average joe soap watching what difference is there between her and another joe soap who just happened to breed their family pet once or twice since there was nothing said about health tests or showing. I thought there was too much emphases based just on the fact she was an ikc breeder, that just sends the message to people that if the pup is ikc reg then all is good.

DBB

caseyann wrote: »

DBB wrote: »

Did you see the show?

If you cared to read what i said and what i quoted and why i said what i said,
you would know that answer.

I am reading your posts, you seem to be changing your answers at every turn. You might want to think about accusing a show of doing something when you haven't even watched it... Instead you're going on 2nd hand information.
As per my post above, if you cared to read it, I quoted your exact words, where you said the show should not have alleged that all Irish dog owners are bad.
And I clarified that they hadn't.
So therefore, I was correcting your assertion about a show you didn't even watch.
The fact that you're drawing conclusions about a show you didn't watch, and your dismissive tone, are not helping you cause.

ppink

caseyann wrote: »

I agree alot more animal lovers and dog lovers in Ireland than the latter of this show.And it is disgraceful they would say that for a minority.
They should have said there is alot of uneducated people who want a dog now and dont consider it could be puppy farmers who treat the dogs badly.As they themselves cant imagine people can do that.
I hate these shows they blame everyone,when the only people at fault are the ones who puppy farm and the law for not changing it so they can take the animals immediately and ban those people from ever having any kind of animal again.
To the show could not watch makes me sick and i cant do anything about it.:(

I actually think it was a bit more close to the truth Caseyann. I mean if i think about everyone I know I trust 2 people close to me to mind my dogs. I trust they will care for them and follow my methods as best they can. Apart from them I would not trust most of my family!! and none of my friends! I dont know anyone who will even sign petitions for any type of animal cause in Ireland or around the world. A good friend of mine told me how they passed a dog every day for 3 days as it lay in a ditch hit by a car............and did nothing!! Even if they called me I would have sorted it.

I once had the misfortune of hearing a dog screaming and screaming. It was the middle of a thunderstorm and a poor dog was in agony, could not stand up. I went out to him and held him with the rain lashing down. my work collegues (all professional) watched me from the office. Then I discovered once the rain stopped that the ignorant B**** who ran over the dogs back was sat in his truck watching me!!!!! he calmly got out and asked if it was my dog!! Anyway role on to me meeting this guys wife, at a fair subsequently, who told me about how all their family just LOVED animals especially dogs! I wonder if she knew what she married.

I am a normal person (well mostly:o:o). I am well educated as are most of the people I know. So how the hell can it be that people just dont give a monkeys?

I am sorry for the long post, I dont normally do long posts.

caseyann

ppink wrote: »

I actually think it was a bit more close to the truth Caseyann. I mean if i think about everyone I know I trust 2 people close to me to mind my dogs. I trust they will care for them and follow my methods as best they can. Apart from them I would not trust most of my family!! and none of my friends! I dont know anyone who will even sign petitions for any type of animal cause in Ireland or around the world. A good friend of mine told me how they passed a dog every day for 3 days as it lay in a ditch hit by a car............and did nothing!! Even if they called me I would have sorted it.

I once had the misfortune of hearing a dog screaming and screaming. It was the middle of a thunderstorm and a poor dog was in agony, could not stand up. I went out to him and held him with the rain lashing down. my work collegues (all professional) watched me from the office. Then I discovered once the rain stopped that the ignorant B**** who ran over the dogs back was sat in his truck watching me!!!!! he calmly got out and asked if it was my dog!! Anyway role on to me meeting this guys wife, at a fair subsequently, who told me about how all their family just LOVED animals especially dogs! I wonder if she knew what she married.

I am a normal person (well mostly:o:o). I am well educated as are most of the people I know. So how the hell can it be that people just dont give a monkeys?

I am sorry for the long post, I dont normally do long posts.

I dont know about people who dont do anything,thats hardly equating to them being not dog lovers.Maybe lazy but not being bad people.
The man no idea what was on his mind but one man doesn't equate to all Irish.
I haven often gone out of my way to go into Gardaí and report dogs or cats on road etc..
Maybe the majority dont know who to call,and with puppy farms people dont think in their mind oh puppy farmer or back yard breeder.
Selfish in a way yes it could be doesnt make them as bad as them.
Anyway i am done.Jumped on for saying i dont believe Ireland has majority of people who dont care for their animals and other animals.
Beggars belief how Irish love to bitch and moan about Irish all the time in everything.

ppink

Ah now in fairness Caseyann I am not bitching or moaning about Irish. I am simply saying my experience with people around me.

As for laziness...perhaps but that is the big issue is it not? too lazy to check where Santa's puppy delivery is coming from??

I follow a lot of stuff an am well aware of the shark finning, southern ocean whales, faroe island whales, dogs skinned alive, bear bile farms, factory cow farms etc all over the world. one could discuss all day but that doea not excuse our own issues here.

DBB

caseyann wrote: »

Anyway i am done.Jumped on for saying i dont believe Ireland has majority of people who dont care for their animals and other animals.
Beggars belief how Irish love to bitch and moan about Irish all the time in everything.

That's a low blow, as I assume you're referring to the people here who corrected the fallacious stuff you posted about a show you didn't watch.
You might believe most owners are okay, but I don't know what you're basing it on. I think many owners are alright, but not "most". I am basing that on personal experience of being at the coalface of rescue. I see the very best in people, I see the very worst in people, and I see a lot in between. So I am basing my opinion on wide experience-based consideration, as are others here who see what it's really like out there for dogs.
Maybe to an average owner, things look pink and fluffy from their insulated world with their dog curled up at your feet, but believe me, there is a huge, major element of Irish people who are cruel and neglectful of animals, wilfully and not. People who have an online-bought dog curled up at their feet have in most cases, whether they know it or not, sponsored the ongoing cruelty and factory-farming from where their pup came. Their dog might be okay, but that's simply not good enough, because the bigger picture is a horrible thing to look at.
People who back yard breed, puppy farmers, all of their customers (including the good dog owners), and owners who allow their unneutered dogs roam free, are contributing to this. There's a reason why anywhere between 6,000 and 17,000 dogs have been PTS in Irish pounds over the past 10 years. The figures have come down for one reason only: there are more rescue groups now than there were 10 years ago, and rescues have new "outlets" for dogs in the UK, Sweden, and other EU countries.
The figures speak for themselves. They take the pink and fluffiness out of it, as did last night's show. And yes, I'm afraid, they paint Ireland in an accurate light in the big scheme of things in animal welfare, beyond your sitting room walls.

caseyann

ppink wrote: »

Ah now in fairness Caseyann I am not bitching or moaning about Irish. I am simply saying my experience with people around me.

As for laziness...perhaps but that is the big issue is it not? too lazy to check where Santa's puppy delivery is coming from??

I follow a lot of stuff an am well aware of the shark finning, southern ocean whales, faroe island whales, dogs skinned alive, bear bile farms, factory cow farms etc all over the world. one could discuss all day but that doea not excuse our own issues here.

And my experience with people about dogs cats and all animals is shock and horror and would do anything for an animal,even people who dont want them for themselves as pets.
So maybe you should focus on the good people rather than the bad as the bad are in the minority.
Lazy yes is a problem when someone doesnt think they should ring to report a a dog on side of road or what ever the case maybe.But i dont think that equates to cruel or being any less a animal lover.
And you could also describe people who get dogs off line as lazy and easy way to get a pet but not mean or cruel or any less a animal lover than someone who goes to a private breeder.Just means they in the majority dont think it is a back yard breeder or puppy farmer.

caseyann

DBB wrote: »

That's a low blow, as I assume you're referring to the people here who corrected the fallacious stuff you posted about a show you didn't watch.
You might believe most owners are okay, but I don't know what you're basing it on. I think many owners are alright, but not "most". I am basing that on personal experience of being at the coalface of rescue. I see the very best in people, I see the very worst in people, and I see a lot in between. So I am basing my opinion on wide experience-based consideration, as are others here who see what it's really like out there for dogs.
Maybe to an average owner, things look pink and fluffy from their insulated world with their dog curled up at your feet, but believe me, there is a huge, major element of Irish people who are cruel and neglectful of animals, wilfully and not. People who have an online-bought dog curled up at their feet have in most cases, whether they know it or not, sponsored the ongoing cruelty and factory-farming from where their pup came. Their dog might be okay, but that's simply not good enough, because the bigger picture is a horrible thing to look at.
People who back yard breed, puppy farmers, all of their customers (including the good dog owners), and owners who allow their unneutered dogs roam free, are contributing to this. There's a reason why anywhere between 6,000 and 17,000 dogs have been PTS in Irish pounds over the past 10 years. The figures have come down for one reason only: there are more rescue groups now than there were 10 years ago, and rescues have new "outlets" for dogs in the UK, Sweden, and other EU countries.
The figures speak for themselves. They take the pink and fluffiness out of it, as did last night's show. And yes, I'm afraid, they paint Ireland in an accurate light in the big scheme of things in animal welfare, beyond your sitting room walls.

They did not show m e anything,i made a post in regards to another poster,then someone else comes in calling the pet owners as bad as the back yard breeders etc.. and i replied to that.
And you are mistaken.Every country in world has the minority and some have a majority that cant afford their dogs or who are cruel and dump them.
Its not an accurate anything of Ireland its picking and poking at **** as usual and not doing anything about the small amount who do.So again back to the laws and making sure once they had a dog dumped it can not have one again and actually follow up on it or stop the puppy farmers with heavy fines and banning them owning any pets at all.
But whinging and moaning about how Ireland isnt a lot of pet lovers as we think is just a load of rubbish.

And i am sure in majority do not realize it and need to.

DBB

caseyann wrote: »

So maybe you should focus on the good people rather than the bad as the bad are in the minority.

But what are you basing this on? Your direct circle of people? Or the hundreds of people every year who surrender their unwanted dogs to you? and the other few hundred each year who want you to help them with their sick/aggressive/phobic puppy-farmed and BYB dogs?

And you could also describe people who get dogs off line as lazy and easy way to get a pet but not mean or cruel or any less a animal lover than someone who goes to a private breeder.Just means they in the majority dont think it is a back yard breeder or puppy farmer

They are not necessarily being directly mean or cruel, no. But paint it whatever way you like, they have bought into cruelty and... meanness. There is no way to get around this ethically. Whether they did it naively or deliberately, whetever way you look at this, they have supported and sponsored cruelty.
Indeed, I will tell you, that most people who surrender their dogs to me every year tell me they bought them online. Almost without fail, they say it guiltily and follow it up with "I know I shouldn't have". So I reckon that playing the naivety card belies the fact that many people know fine well they shouldn't source their pup online, and know all the recommendations about seeing pup with it's mother etc, but ignore it and hope for the best. Their laziness causes cruelty.
Bottom line, these people are in the majority, despite what you might want to believe. Not cruel themselves, but sponsoring cruelty.

Cherry Blossom

Caseyann

No more off-topic posting/ranting in this thread!

See the title of the thread and comment on the show in the title. If you have not watched the show then go and do so OR do not post in this thread again.

DBB

caseyann wrote: »

And you are mistaken.Every country in world has the minority and some have a majority that cant afford their dogs or who are cruel and dump them.

What does this mean? Are you saying that most countries in the world have a amajority of pet lovers? What do you base this on? The way you want it to be?

Its not an accurate anything of Ireland its picking and poking at **** as usual and not doing anything about the small amount who do.

Ireland is, rightfully, known as the "puppy farming capital of Europe".
This is an accurate reflection, believe me. I know what I'm talking about here. Worldwide, we have a pretty poor reputation when it comes to companion animal care, and this has been shown empirically by international, peer-reviewed research of animal welfare across the world.
Thanks to pressure from Europe, our farm animals are enjoying an increasingly high standard o welfare: if it weren't for this rpessure, we'd ba back to the horrendous pre-EU farm conditions. That was a horrible place to be, if you were a farm animal.

So again back to the laws and making sure once they had a dog dumped it can not have one again and actually follow up on it or stop the puppy farmers with heavy fines and banning them owning any pets at all.
But whinging and moaning about how Ireland isnt a lot of pet lovers as we think is just a load of rubbish.

What have you done, personally, to ensure better regulation, enforcement of legislation etc?

caseyann

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Caseyann

No more off-topic posting/ranting in this thread!

See the title of the thread and comment on the show in the title. If you have not watched the show then go and do so OR do not post in this thread again.

Excuse me off topic ranting i see i see nice to know.Try telling the other posters to not go around making false accusations and then trying to say i said one thing and not even slightly suggested in my posts.
Letting mod rule go to your head a little are you?
And now its a rant so you can slap me for it if you want like i give a ****..
Pathetic.

caseyann

DBB wrote: »

What does this mean? Are you saying that most countries in the world have a amajority of pet lovers? What do you base this on? The way you want it to be?



Ireland is, rightfully, known as the "puppy farming capital of Europe".
This is an accurate reflection, believe me. I know what I'm talking about here. Worldwide, we have a pretty poor reputation when it comes to companion animal care, and this has been shown empirically by international, peer-reviewed research of animal welfare across the world.
Thanks to pressure from Europe, our farm animals are enjoying an increasingly high standard o welfare: if it weren't for this rpessure, we'd ba back to the horrendous pre-EU farm conditions. That was a horrible place to be, if you were a farm animal.



What have you done, personally, to ensure better regulation, enforcement of legislation etc?

lmao :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

caseyann wrote: »

Excuse me off topic ranting i see i see nice to know.Try telling the other posters to not go around making false accusations and then trying to say i said one thing and not even slightly suggested in my posts.
Letting mod rule go to your head a little are you?
And now its a rant so you can slap me for it if you want like i give a ****..
Pathetic.

You have made 11 nonsense, trolling posts, mostly made with the intention of antagonising other users in a thread about a show you haven't watched.

1 day ban for trolling, a second day ban for arguing with a mod, abuse and your last provocative post on this thread. Hopefully you can use the break to learn how to exercise a little self-restraint.

Sigma Force

I think it's great that TV3 has been highlighting puppy farms they've been great for covering welfare issues. I didn't watch it but know what goes on, what to look out for etc. It's bound to be repeated hopefully so might look at it then.
Hopefully some of the public watch it and have been educated but sadly a lot of people who couldn't care less as long as they got a cheap dog won't bother watching it. This is why the laws need to come in to force.

Back yard breeders are as bad as puppy farmers, e.g. stay at home mum who wants to make a few quid breeds her dog purely for profit.

Cherry Blossom

Sigma Force wrote: »

I didn't watch it but know what goes on, what to look out for etc. It's bound to be repeated hopefully so might look at it then.

Link to watch it online in post #11 if you have decent internet access.

softmee

<snip>

Cherry Blossom

softmee wrote: »

<snip>

Your post is off-topic, this thread (and this forum) is not for people to publicise their misgivings about specific rescues. Please read the forum charter

softmee

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Your post is off-topic, this thread (and this forum) is not for people to publicise their misgivings about specific rescues.

-no it is not of topic! Delete rescue name and post it back

Cherry Blossom

softmee wrote: »

-no it is not of topic! Delete rescue name and post it back

The entire purpose of your post was to slate a rescue because they deemed you unsuitable to adopt a dog from them, find a more suitable thread (there are plenty of them) or start a new one if you wish but do not name the rescue and it is NOT relevant to this thread!

softmee

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

The entire purpose of your post was to slate a rescue because they deemed you unsuitable to adopt a dog from them, find a more suitable thread (there are plenty of them) or start a new one if you wish but do not name the rescue and it is NOT relevant to this thread!

-it is VERY relevant to this thread

Sigma Force

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Link to watch it online in post #11 if you have decent internet access.

Thanks, I'll check it out when my connection improves.

Hellrazer

Softmee--So far two moderators have given you warnings on thread.I suggest you read the rules,calm down a bit and stop arguing with the other mods in this forum.

This is your final warning--if you come to my attention one more time Im giving you a week long ban.

Wibbs

Sigma Force wrote: »

Hopefully some of the public watch it and have been educated but sadly a lot of people who couldn't care less as long as they got a cheap dog won't bother watching it. This is why the laws need to come in to force.

That's the biggest problem. Ignorance and not giving a damn so long as they get their puppy. Just as there would be far far fewer thieves if no one bought stolen goods, there would be far far fewer puppy farmers if potential owners gave them a wide berth. If you've bought a dog without seeing the home/kennels of it's parents and observed the conditions they're living in then you're supporting such breeders as we saw in that programme.

westies4ever

Wibbs wrote: »

That's the biggest problem. Ignorance and not giving a damn so long as they get their puppy. Just as there would be far far fewer thieves if no one bought stolen goods, there would be far far fewer puppy farmers if potential owners gave them a wide berth. If you've bought a dog without seeing the home/kennels of it's parents and observed the conditions they're living in then you're supporting such breeders as we saw in that programme.

Ignorance is a big problem but a lot of people have no idea rather than not giving a damn. I got my first dog from an advert on a website from a back yard breeder. I hadnt a clue that puppy farms etc even existed. Thankfully, he was genuine - I saw the parents who were both well treated and he checked up on us for the first few months to make sure all was ok - I realise now thats not the norm on such websites! Since then, I have become very interested in animal welfare/rescue. My second dog is a rescue and I can honestly say I will never buy another dog.

The programme was heartbreaking. Education is the key.

Sigma Force

Starting with the schools, I know many rescue groups do school talks but we need more. Rescues are caught for time and it's not easy for them but would love to see it a regular thing in schools. Most kids love animals and the ones that don't are usually open to learning so unlike adults where sometimes there's no reasoning with them kids are willing to listen.

westies4ever

Sigma Force wrote: »

Starting with the schools, I know many rescue groups do school talks but we need more. Rescues are caught for time and it's not easy for them but would love to see it a regular thing in schools. Most kids love animals and the ones that don't are usually open to learning so unlike adults where sometimes there's no reasoning with them kids are willing to listen.

excellent point

magentas

It's great to see a show highlighting these issues.I know the show was about puppy farms but I'd hoped they'd touch on the subject of BYBs. The mentality of a lot of Irish people to "let her have one litter" or "sure ya can make 150euro on each pup" sickens me.
At least they stressed the importance of neutering and microchipping.

Also, a little dissappointed not much talk of health screening with responsible breeders but it's great to see shows like this on an Irish channel at a popular timeslot. Hopefully it'll promote responsible ownership on top of other important issues to a mainstream audience. Well done TV3