Kimi for williams 2012 ?

StephenHendry

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns23673.html

this report could be a bit premature for kimi to sign for williams yet, as it hints on a sponsorship deal to be agreed for him. it would be nice to see him back in F1 albeit in car that would be probably mid grid

brownacid

Kimi in a midfeild car would be a sight to behold, it would be reminiscent of his Sauber days. I reckon if he were to come back coming into a mid feild team would be the kind of motivation he would need to respark his enthusiasm for racing in F1. Kimi is like Alonso when he is motivated. He will drive the balls out of the car and get more out of it than anyone could have expected.

Here's hoping he does come back even if I'll only be reading about teh results after the race thanks to Bernie "I'm only worth £2.5 Billion" Ecclestone.

losthorizon

Why would you get rid of an experienced enthusiastic driver who has shown his ability and is good at setting up cars for someone who just doesnt give a pardon my french a ****. Rubens deserves a drive in F1 and he competed really well with Button in the Brawn team. That Williams is a dog of a car and any points that he and Maldonado have brought home this season should be regarded as a bonus.

ottostreet

losthorizon wrote: »

Why would you get rid of an experienced enthusiastic driver who has shown his ability and is good at setting up cars for someone who just doesnt give a pardon my french a ****. Rubens deserves a drive in F1 and he competed really well with Button in the Brawn team. That Williams is a dog of a car and any points that he and Maldonado have brought home this season should be regarded as a bonus.

Because Kimi is one of the most talented and exciting drivers to have ever graced an F1 car. Rubens has been there two seasons, and has not helped the team progress, they have gone backwards. There's no risk in hiring Kimi, they can't really get any worse.

frostie500

Dont forget that Williams are still waiting on confirmation that Maldonado can still bring in the Venezuelan oil money for next season. The team is in bad shape financially and a driver like Kimi could help generate some positive PR and bring in new sponsors.

Personally I still Sutil is much more likely to be hired because he is a solid driver who can bring in a lot of cash to a team. I dont see the value of Kimi for a team like Williams because it all depends on if Kimi is actually bothered to show up and race for a midfield squad. Seeing as he mailed in his last year with Ferrari I think its far from guarenteed that he would be motivated

cherryghost

Frostie just hit the nail on the coffin there. Maldonado is only there due to finance, although he has asserted himself a bit in the sport in a few races. Kimi & Barichello; an exciting pair-up!

Jordan 199

frostie500 wrote: »

Personally I still Sutil is much more likely to be hired because he is a solid driver who can bring in a lot of cash to a team.

I think he took Medion sponsorship with him to Force India, but I heard they were taken over by Lenovo (who I think sponsored Williams at one time).

Could be Sutil and Maldonado at Williams next year.

TheChrisD

frostie500 wrote: »

Dont forget that Williams are still waiting on confirmation that Maldonado can still bring in the Venezuelan oil money for next season.

Gotta love all that Venezuelan oil and petroleum products...

/me glares at PDVSA and CITGO

the culture of deference

PlanetF1 seem to think its done.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7268653/-Raikkonen-has-signed-Williams-deal-

Would love to hear Ej's opinion on this.


Here's why Kimi is electric to watch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_s-HVnJnv4

losthorizon

the culture of deference wrote: »

Here's why Kimi is electric to watch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_s-HVnJnv4

and heres why hes not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW_RfudK8nU

leading the race and runs into a back marker. I was sitting right in front of the accident he was daydreaming.


I hope this doesnt mean the ned of Rubens career and that he can find a drive if not at williams somewhere in F1

G-Money

They seem to think its a done deal out there on Twitter land. He's funny but he just doesn't seem to care which can come across as laziness.

Ghost Train

would be fun to see him back

6 world champions on the grid

might be tough for him to get back up to speed

Iron Hide

I doubt Rubens would get a drive next year if he's ousted by Kimi, maybe one of the backmarkers because he'll have 325 races under his belt and would extremely valuable in a test capacity at least.

However for pretty much all the teams bar Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes the main draw would be hard cash rather than a proven ability so if a 20 yr old with a years racing in GP2 turns up with $5 million in sponsorship money then they'll take the cash

vectra

Could be a repeat of earlier years.
Kimi to Williams for one year and replace Schuie at Mercedes 2013

Now that would be a nice pairing. Kimi and Rosberg

StephenHendry

if it falls through, i think they will go for sutil. if kimi and maldanardo are the partnership for williams in 2012 then hopefully rubens will get a drive. maybe lotus ? , he's not going to have many options for 2012 ?

Myrddin

vectra wrote: »

Could be a repeat of earlier years.
Kimi to Williams for one year and replace Schuie at Mercedes 2013

Now that would be a nice pairing. Kimi and Rosberg

I think they've a better pairing already

vectra

EnterNow wrote: »

I think they've a better pairing already

For what reason?

Myrddin

vectra wrote: »

For what reason?

The Schumacher part. Don't get me wrong, I like Kimi...but from a team direction & development point of view, Schumacher is worth 20 Kimi's.

vectra

EnterNow wrote: »

The Schumacher part. Don't get me wrong, I like Kimi...but from a team direction & development point of view, Schumacher is worth 20 Kimi's.

Really?
Maybe 10 years ago..
Schui'e contract is out end 2012. I cannot see Merc renewing it. Also,
Doesn't Norbert Haug have a soft spot for Kimi?
Not saying it will happen. But there is a grave possibility.

Myrddin

vectra wrote: »

Really?
Maybe 10 years ago..

Why not now, because his car isn't competetive? Sure Rosberg outqualifies him a lot, but on race day, Schumacher has been top dog for me for the past while. Probably over the last 6/7 races he's been pretty damn good in that car, & only for DRS we'd have seen him on the podium a few times.

You don't think a seven time world champion, & now with two full seasons under his belt with the likes of DRS & the new tyres would be more beneficial than someone who hasn't been in an F1 car for three years, & when he was in one seemed like he couldn't wait to get out of it?

As I said, I like Kimi as a driver, but I couldn't see him playing any part of development or direction. Kimi would consider showing up for race weekend a valid contribution.

frostie500

vectra wrote: »

Really?
Maybe 10 years ago..

Its been a while since Kimi was the force he used to be in Formula 1 as wel.....

If Raikkonen came back and was the Kimi we saw before he won his title he would be a massive addition back to the field. Everyone knows how special a driver he is when he is pushing himself but not going to Australia this year showed, ocne again, that when he isnt bothered he can be a nightmare for a team boss.

vectra

Time will tell

'05
'06
Schumacher couldn't win

'07
Enter Kimi
Won the wdc

'08
'09
Kimi did not do so well
Enter Alonso
What has he shown with all this hype about him?
Don't say "Bad car"
Kimi had a bad car in '09.

'10
'11
Enter Schumacher.
Outrun by a younger less experienced driver most of the time.

'12
Enter Kimi to Williams > One year of experience gathering to get into the swing of it

'12
Farewell Schumacher

'13
Welcome Kim to Mercedes
You never know what lies ahead in this world :pac:

Myrddin

vectra wrote: »

T'09
Kimi did not do so well
Enter Alonso
What has he shown with all this hype about him?
Don't say "Bad car"
Kimi had a bad car in '09.

In fairness, Kimi didn't really have to contend with these lads



RB were only emerging as the force they are today back then.

Kimi has a long wayto go before I'll rate him as I do Schumacher. Schumacher has nothing to prove, Kimi, to me at least, does.

Edit - finishing 2nd, 4 points behind Vettel wasn't too bad last year either for Alonso. Yeah he should have won it, but if your looking for what he's shown, he's the closest man to Vettel.

vectra

EnterNow wrote: »

In fairness, Kimi didn't really have to contend with these lads



RB were only emerging as the force they are today back then.

Kimi has a long wayto go before I'll rate him as I do Schumacher. Schumacher has nothing to prove, Kimi, to me at least, does.

Edit - finishing 2nd, 4 points behind Vettel wasn't too bad last year either for Alonso. Yeah he should have won it, but if your looking for what he's shown, he's the closest man to Vettel.

Hold on one second


You are confused..
What makes Schuie so special over Kimi??
Schuie did not have to contend with those guys either when HE had the best car on the grid.
When Renault suddenly had the better car whaere was the mighty Schuie?
Where is he now with a middle of the pack car?
Kimi would be doing just as well.


Anyhow.
I will not get into a debate over who is better than who.
All I was saying is there will more than likely be an opening for Kimi in Merc 2013 when Schuie is gone.
A repeat of history.
Then again... If Kimi did hop into Schuie's car I suppose it would be a case of " Ah. It was easy for him, Schuie had that car sorted for him"

Myrddin

vectra wrote: »

Kimi would be doing just as well.

I'm not saying he wouldn't, I'm not comparing their racecraft here...I'm comparing their dedication & usefullness to a team from a feedback & input kind of view. There's no contest between the two in that sense.

Regardless, I'd like to see Kimi back in F1.

vectra wrote:

All I was saying is there will more than likely be an opening for Kimi in Merc 2013 when Schuie is gone.
A repeat of history.
Then again... If Kimi did hop into Schuie's car I suppose it would be a case of " Ah. It was easy for him, Schuie had that car sorted for him"

Well it'd be more credible than "Kimi really took us in a new direction, his feedback & dedication have been instrumental".

lord lucan

Can't beat a Kimi thread for entertainment.:pac:





******Gets more popcorn******

vectra

lord lucan wrote: »

Can't beat a Kimi thread for entertainment.:pac:





******Gets more popcorn******

Salted for me please and coke :pac:

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

Salted for me please and coke :pac:

Don't feed the troll...

vectra

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Don't feed the troll...

Define troll

I was in discussion about Kimi..What are you doing here?

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

Define troll

I was in discussion about Kimi..What are you doing here?

OK then, in this case the troll is someone who consistently over a number of years has had such a hard on for Kimi that he is blind to the facts and is also someone who was previously banned from this forum for admitting that they were trolling on a thread not unlike this one.

What I am doing here is reminding others not to feed the troll.

losthorizon

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Im keeping an eye on this thread, guys lets not let this thread degrade into sillyness.

I post in motorsport .... its bound to

losthorizon

Ficus wrote: »

For whats its worth, i have been told the kimi deal is fully done, so i would expect for him to take Rubens seat for next near. As for what kimi does in 2013, nobody really knows or is saying at this moment.
I think its even a risk for williams to take him on really, yes he is a previous world champion, and by christ did he have a turn of pace, but that was only when he wanted, on his off days he was woeful, and simply gave up.
The fact that he turned to rallying shows me he really isnt bothered by f1, and lacks the 100% commitment to it, and that for me would mean i would pass him over when choosing a driver for my team.

Got the impression on the Beeb today that it wasnt done and dusted? If Williams arent a force next year it really will be interesting watching Kimi driving for a midfield (or worse) team. Hope Rubens gets a drive.

Jordan 199

losthorizon wrote: »

Hope Rubens gets a drive.

I think the only place Rubens might get a drive is with HRT or Virgin. Personally, I think he will retire at the end of this season.

Jordan 199

Ficus wrote: »

The fact that he turned to rallying shows me he really isnt bothered by f1, and lacks the 100% commitment to it, and that for me would mean i would pass him over when choosing a driver for my team.

If Kimi signs with Williams, I think it will be a tense relationship. If Kimi doesn't deliver the goods, blows hot and cold and doesn't give 100% commitment, Patrick Head will be breathing down his neck. He's one person you don't mess with.

vectra

EnterNow wrote: »

The Schumacher part. Don't get me wrong, I like Kimi...but from a team direction & development point of view, Schumacher is worth 20 Kimi's.

Ficus wrote: »

This is supposed to be a thread about kimi possibly moving to williams, not a kimi vs schumi thread, we`ve had those, and they descended into madness and silliness. So please lets ends that here.
.

Well,
I can safely say I did not introduce the Schuie Vs Kimi in this thread.
I only said It would/could be an option for 2013 for Kimi to replace him when his contract runs out.

G-Money

I've a hard time seeing Kimi being motivated at Williams. They seem to have fallen back a lot this year and are 9th in the constructors championship with 5 points. The only teams below them are Lotus, Virgin and HRT.

If they axe Rubens and give Kimi his seat, is Kimi really the guy to spend hours with the engineers giving them feedback and helping them develop the car?

Anyway we're all outsiders looking in. While I'd like to see Kimi coming back, I'm not sure he is the driver Williams need at the moment to help move them forward. However if next year's car is a big step forward, then who knows. But each of the past few years it seems that Williams have come out with quite a bit of fanfare that this year's car is better, only for them to slide even further back.

It's a shame as I think they're the one team that almost everyone likes and would want to see do well.

amacachi

With another Hamilton special today if I were in McLaren I'd be keeping an eye on Williams to distract them when Kimi arrives and sneak a different contract in front of him. :pac:

Jordan 199

G-Money wrote: »

I've a hard time seeing Kimi being motivated at Williams. They seem to have fallen back a lot this year and are 9th in the constructors championship with 5 points. The only teams below them are Lotus, Virgin and HRT.

If they axe Rubens and give Kimi his seat, is Kimi really the guy to spend hours with the engineers giving them feedback and helping them develop the car?

Anyway we're all outsiders looking in. While I'd like to see Kimi coming back, I'm not sure he is the driver Williams need at the moment to help move them forward. However if next year's car is a big step forward, then who knows. But each of the past few years it seems that Williams have come out with quite a bit of fanfare that this year's car is better, only for them to slide even further back.

It's a shame as I think they're the one team that almost everyone likes and would want to see do well.

I think Williams will improve next year, not by a huge margin but it will be a step in the right direction.

If they need an experienced driver to help improve the car, I think Heidfeld would be an excellent candidate, he is very good at the technical stuff.

You are right about almost everyone liking them and it's not nice seeing them 4th from bottom in the standings.

freestyla

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I think Williams will improve next year, not by a huge margin but it will be a step in the right direction.

I agree.. I mean they can't go more down anyway lol

I disagree with some talking about Kimi doesn't have great motivation for F1. Motivation is complex thing and I think we are so outsiders what comes to be motivated for such a professional level of sports.

Kimi said that one of the reasons for comeback is because of more overtakings with drs, kers and new tyres.
I guess Kimi meant also that engines are much more reliable and it's actually more likely to finish a race than have blown engine.

I think Kimi got very frustrated with Ferrari's unreliability in 2009 while 2 noob teams Brawn GP and RB were winning it all.

So yea I say welcome back ICE. Hopefully Williams will get some extra millions sponsorship and Kimi could replace Maldonado instead of Barrichello.

freestyla

Another buzz from some motorsport experts
Kimi made a contract (promised one?) with RedBull for 2013 but with condition that he drives somewhere 2012 just for practice and learning of new tyres, keeping himself in fit doesn't sound like Kimi style.. he can't plan things that well ahead :P

vectra

freestyla wrote: »

Another buzz from some motorsport experts
Kimi made a contract (promised one?) with RedBull for 2013 but with condition that he drives somewhere 2012 just for practice and learning of new tyres, keeping himself in fit doesn't sound like Kimi style.. he can't plan things that well ahead :P

If that were to be true then would it not be more logical to put Kimi in a STR for 2012 and ship off the RBR for 2013?

freestyla

vectra wrote: »

If that were to be true then would it not be more logical to put Kimi in a STR for 2012 and ship off the RBR for 2013?

That makes more sense what comes to STR - RBR relationship, I am just not sure about present driver's contracts.. Alguesuari is allright probably but Buemi is not so impressive anyway.. in other hand, STR is more like bouncing team for new drivers, like part of RBR young drivers development program whatever right?

This Williams/Renault thing is more likely related to their shared engines, dunno how related tho.. maybe if Renault would sponsor Kimi comeback?

amacachi

Wouldn't be the most crazy thing ever. As for not going to Torro Rosso, they're already overstaffed. :pac:

vectra

Ficus wrote: »

I heard about this too at the weekend.
Doesn't sound too off the wall to me. Kimi has a strong relationship with red bull stretching back to his sauber days, and recently with his wrc adventure.
I think its also a help to red bull if he is farmed out to another team as there will be a lot of learning for him to get on top of, and coupled with virtually no testing now, it makes sense for him to be someone elses problem. And toro rosso have been flying lately so why change that, especially with the chance that one driver change may be happening with Daniel Ricciardo next season.

Kimi to RBR
Now that would be something..
Kimi and Seb battling for fastest lap on the last lap of a race LOL
Jokes aside though... I always did wish to see Kimi in a RBR but now with the new rules will they be the best/fastest team/car ?

freestyla

vectra wrote: »

Kimi to RBR
Now that would be something..
Kimi and Seb battling for fastest lap on the last lap of a race LOL
Jokes aside though... I always did wish to see Kimi in a RBR but now with the new rules will they be the best/fastest team/car ?

I see RB as awesome, clever, modern, predictive, initiative, pro-active whatelse positive team. They got it all right approach to organization, economics, marketing, technical stuff, sporting spirit, morality... all is in perfect synchronization and balance so I don't see any reason why they would become much slower in a year or two. Unless something big unexpected happens which would shake whole team but I hope everything will be fine.

I admire them because of the awesome job they do but it's hard to be their total fan because of actual name RedBull I just hope one little change in RB, at least to see Nissan logo instead of Infinity then could cheer for them from the heart :pac:

ratedR

freestyla wrote: »

Another buzz from some motorsport experts
Kimi made a contract (promised one?) with RedBull for 2013 but with condition that he drives somewhere 2012 just for practice and learning of new tyres, keeping himself in fit doesn't sound like Kimi style.. he can't plan things that well ahead :P

That makes sense alright. I thought the whole Kimi to Williams thing was complete fiction until I heard Marty Brundle talk about it over the weekend. He doesn't usually offer an opinion on something unless there is some concrete truth behind it.

Williams are probably heading in the right direction from next year on, but they probably wont be a top 5/6 team for a few seasons yet. It's hard to see what Kimi's motivation would be to go to them. Yes the rallying is not going to plan, but if he was to come back, it could only surely be with an eye to get into a Red Bull. He's been at McLaren who couldn't give him a title, it really was down to their failings and not his, and his title at Ferarri was pretty lucky, by which time he looked like he had lost patience.

amacachi

ratedR wrote: »

That makes sense alright. I thought the whole Kimi to Williams thing was complete fiction until I heard Marty Brundle talk about it over the weekend. He doesn't usually offer an opinion on something unless there is some concrete truth behind it.

Williams are probably heading in the right direction from next year on, but they probably wont be a top 5/6 team for a few seasons yet. It's hard to see what Kimi's motivation would be to go to them. Yes the rallying is not going to plan, but if he was to come back, it could only surely be with an eye to get into a Red Bull. He's been at McLaren who couldn't give him a title, it really was down to their failings and not his, and his title at Ferarri was pretty lucky, by which time he looked like he had lost patience.

Quite frankly I'd be amazed if they're not a consistently top-5 team by the end of next year if Kimi comes in and, one would assume, they gave up on this year's car early. They've had no pace this year but I'd imagine their tumble would have something to do with giving up on this year. With all the reorganisation they've done there's bound to be major progress soon enough.

Also if they stumble across RB's secret they'll gain massively. Bear in mind that the RBs are slow in a straight line while Renault are one of the quickest. There's nothing wrong with the Renault engine yet RB don't like to turn it up often, and it can't just be down to the blown diffuser since Renault have one of the most extreme systems around. I get the feeling there's something mechanical about Red Bull's advantage. Perhaps the way the engine is mounted or stressed or something. There's some reason why they're so afraid to push the engine.

vectra

Taken from here >http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorsport/story/63487.html

Fingers crossed.

Williams shareholder Toto Wolff has confirmed that the team is negotiating with Kimi Raikkonen over a potential return to Formula One.

Rumours have been rife for a number of weeks that Raikkonen was keen on a move back to the sport having not raced since leaving Ferrari at the end of 2009. In that time he has tried his hand at rallying and NASCAR, but Williams appears to be the most likely destination for a return in 2012.

Team chairman Adam Parr admitted in India that Raikkonen would be a good fit for the team as it looks to rebuild after a poor season, and Wolff has now said that talks are ongoing with the 2007 world champion, as well as Ferrari reserve driver Jules Bianchi.

"Yes, it's true," Wolff told Kronen Zeitung. "The Kimi Raikkonen file is on the table. The story is not for show, we are negotiating seriously, but it is only one of several options. There will be a strategic decision.

"But there is another aggressive option with the boy Jules Bianchi, and Valtteri Bottas is worthy of consideration at least for Friday's practice."

guyfo

amacachi wrote: »

Quite frankly I'd be amazed if they're not a consistently top-5 team by the end of next year if Kimi comes in and, one would assume, they gave up on this year's car early. They've had no pace this year but I'd imagine their tumble would have something to do with giving up on this year. With all the reorganisation they've done there's bound to be major progress soon enough.

Also if they stumble across RB's secret they'll gain massively. Bear in mind that the RBs are slow in a straight line while Renault are one of the quickest. There's nothing wrong with the Renault engine yet RB don't like to turn it up often, and it can't just be down to the blown diffuser since Renault have one of the most extreme systems around. I get the feeling there's something mechanical about Red Bull's advantage. Perhaps the way the engine is mounted or stressed or something. There's some reason why they're so afraid to push the engine.

I wouldnt say they will be up there next season but if kimi came in they could be a force the year after in my opinion. They have had a bad year but then they havent finished in the top 5 in the championship since 07 so its been a fairly average year for them. I wouldnt see a reason to expect them to suddenly bounce back.

I would say that rbr dont turn it up because they plain dont need to

And as for the diffuser the most extreme solution isnt necessarily the best one. Adrian Newey is a genius and his designs are pure simple elegance. I dont know how he continues to do it but the only way williams will win next year is if they poached Newey from his rbr contract and he gave them all the plans for the rb7 with him!

StephenHendry

im not sure whether kimi would have the patience to stay 3 years with williams for example for them to be back up near the front. i heard reports of him going for a seat at torro rosso with a view to taking webbers seat at red bull

vectra

Update on Kimi

Will it be Williams or Lotus

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32000:f1--report-kimi-raikkonen-also-eyeing-williams-formula-1-team-co-ownership&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157

According to Bild newspaper, the only missing piece in Kimi Raikkonen's return to Formula One with Williams in 2012 is an official announcement.

The German newspaper said a media statement could be forthcoming from the British team this week, which was pleasing news for his friend Sebastian Vettel.

"He is a sensationally good racer and it would be great if he is coming back," said the back to back World Champion.