Property tax

eth0

[as request to keep seperate topics]

Just wondering what people who are living self sufficient in places like the UK and USA do about property tax, are any exempted for very low income or how do they manage.

One of the big reasons I can't stand this impending tax or any other ownership tax like the 80 euro gun license is that it doesn't take into account people living self sufficient or with very little income.

It seems like a tax to keep people 'on the grid' and dependent on the government or else just designed without the consideration that there are some people living self sufficient who don't use much for local services because they might not exist where these people are living

Sparks

eth0 wrote: »

ownership tax like the 80 euro gun license

[ObPoint]Not actually an ownership tax; costs far less per annum than the ammunition unless you're using an airgun.[/ObPoint]

Grizzly 45

Different states have different property taxes and depending what kind of a state it is [IE an extreme to live in state like Alaska,it will have very low to nil,bar in the cities which are muncipility [sic]taxes for services,the cost of living is high,as everything has to be imported into Alaska.]
In Arizona it is the water that is the expensive one,but property tax is low.In CAlifornia,it is the Sunshine and welfare system that you pay for..No wonder the state is broke!!:rolleyes:.
It does also take into consideration what is the property value,wether it is easily accesible,wether it has power lines and whatnot. If you are living in a clapboard shack or trailer ,they wont charge you as much as if you built a 20 room palace on the same spot.It is alot more complex than just this,but it does still get you the one thing we Will not get here,thats service and efficency in fixing roads,collecting garbage etc,as we all know it is just another tax to Europe to pay for corrupt crooks who ruined this country with their gambling debts.:mad:

Grizzly 45

eth0 wrote: »

[as request to keep seperate topics]


It seems like a tax to keep people 'on the grid' and dependent on the government or else just designed without the consideration that there are some people living self sufficient who don't use much for local services because they might not exist where these people are living

Perish the thought that there are people who actually DONT want the big brother state looking after them from cradle to grave!!!I mean they are weird ..And proably dangerous too,I mean look at America those "nutty "survivalists in Ruby ridge and Waco[factually wrong that point but try and explain it to the ignorant]...They proably have food stockpiled and ..shudder!! ....know about and own GUNS!!!:eek::eek:

Yes,we must be all good little sheeple ..Ready to be slaughterd in wartime and shorn at tax time,so shut up pay your taxes and the kindly big brother EU state will look after you.NOT!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

eth0

Looks like that absolute miserable **** Phil hogan is intent on pushing this tax upon us. I really have no clue how you'd live self sufficient if you're expected to cough up a grand or more to the govt for owning a house.

'Temporary' structures or doing up abandoned buildings in the middle of nowhere might be a plan. or else move to a country that doesn't have it like Iceland

Grizzly 45

Or possibly get out and protest about this??The more protesting the more they will have to reconsider.If a bunch of pensioners could fight for their pensions and get a U turn of Fine Failure. 150 hardcore activists could make the Iron lady back down on the Poll Tax in 80s Britan.What do us Irish need to get going???:rolleyes:

eth0

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What do us Irish need to get going???:rolleyes:

800 years of heavy oppression.

Agent_47

It was clearly stated in the Sindo today that revenue will use the ESB NPRN number, PRTB and welfare to track home owners.
So if you have no meter, a post box number and don't claim welfare you can avoid being caught for the tax

KrustyBurger

Firstly I'm not defending the property tax, the government can dress it up any way it wants but essentially we're paying off bondholders for the gambling losses of private banks.

However the idea of living off the grid is in my opinon not really feasible and therefore the idea of tax is not morally wrong. Sure you can be self sufficient but when it comes to things like hospitals, education, roads etc that are provided by the state then it's impossible to live off the grid competely.

Grizzly 45

Agent_47 wrote: »

It was clearly stated in the Sindo today that revenue will use the ESB NPRN number, PRTB and welfare to track home owners.
So if you have no meter, a post box number and don't claim welfare you can avoid being caught for the tax

Be intresting to see how they will get around the data protection act on that one.TBH it was tried before on somthing revenue gathering exercise and failed miserably.:D This isnt the USA or the EU.It is still a Hell of a job to gather info on people here.[As a private eye I do a lot of this] and it is still go out and thump on doors,rather than mouse click still.

@ krusty,
Thing is we already pay for road usage.Called Road tax if you have a motor vechicle.
Hospitals,keep your self fit and accident free, or alternative medicine.Education, home school your kids,and proably raise 100% smarter kids than what our learning factories produce.
There is nothing wrong with taxation if it is being used for the upkeep and betterment of your society.However in this case it has nothing got to do with paying for our societies upkeep .It is simply money being thrown down a black hole to pay for irresponsible gambling debts of speculators.
Nor is th is a fair tax either.It is already giving too many exemptions to the usual suspects.

Tabnabs

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Thing is we already pay for road usage.Called Road tax if you have a motor vechicle.

When's the last time you paid Road Tax or were taxed directly for road usage?

skippey

Like oil and water a property tax and Ireland just don't mix and seeing as they have brought it in it will probably be the reason that most of us will vote no to the next EU treaty referendum that they demand us to vote yes for.
From interviews on the news i see Hogan , Noonan and gang are seeing if they can find a way to get it passed with out going to the people
either way i while i pay all my taxes i wont pay this one
That cabin in the mountains is looking mighty tempting for the future of me :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

Tabnabs wrote: »

When's the last time you paid Road Tax or were taxed directly for road usage?

Six months ago,when I paid an outrageous sum for a piece of paper.

kildare.17hmr

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Six months ago,when I paid an outrageous sum for a piece of paper.

That was motor tax grizz and goes straight into the exchequer, nothing to do with the roads at all

kildare.17hmr

Im renting thank fook but am looking forward to the day im asked by the LL to pay this to him. Pay someone elses taxes for them??? not likely:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

Trouble is Kildare,your LL isnt getting any benefit from this either...Same as PTRB registration which is for the tenants benefitt[whatever that benefit is I havent a clue..] Truth be told you ARE already as all of us are paying for somone elses bad debts and stupidity.

kildare.17hmr

I know im payin for others debts as it is and believe me i pay enough out of my pay cheque every week it makes me sick:( but if my LL thinks im going to pay this he has another thing coming!

BigBoi83

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

That was motor tax grizz and goes straight into the exchequer, nothing to do with the roads at all

That explains why Irish roads are such a disgrace then...

Surely the purpose of a MOTOR tax is to contribute towards the upkeep of our roads etc so we can use our motors..

As far as paying a tax for using a road, wouldnt a TOLL road fall under that category

eth0

BigBoi83 wrote: »

That explains why Irish roads are such a disgrace then...

Surely the purpose of a MOTOR tax is to contribute towards the upkeep of our roads etc so we can use our motors..

As far as paying a tax for using a road, wouldnt a TOLL road fall under that category

Motor tax is to pay for brand new motorways that lead to Dublin and a variety of other non-road related uses

Norwayviking

eth0 wrote: »

Motor tax is to pay for brand new motorways that lead to Dublin and a variety of other non-road related uses

I thought the toll on the motorway was for that??????
who is gettin the money there then??:eek:

eth0

Norwayviking wrote: »

I thought the toll on the motorway was for that??????
who is gettin the money there then??:eek:

The lads who run the toll booths for the next 40 or so years

Norwayviking

eth0 wrote: »

The lads who run the toll booths for the next 40 or so years

Ok doesnt make sense though

eth0

Norwayviking wrote: »

Ok doesnt make sense though

Most toll roads here are 'public private partnership'.

The govt pony up some of the money and some company ponies up another bit in return for being allowed charge tolls to the people who actually use the road. That company might also help with the construction of the road but after a given term (40 or 50 years) the road becomes property of the government again

Norwayviking

eth0 wrote: »

Most toll roads here are 'public private partnership'.

The govt pony up some of the money and some company ponies up another bit in return for being allowed charge tolls to the people who actually use the road. That company might also help with the construction of the road but after a given term (40 or 50 years) the road becomes property of the government again

And then the motortax on top of this??
Thats what i dont understand.
Why cant the goverment control it all,and then hire some company to do the maintenance??
Alot of money into some privat owned motorway,who probaly can adjust the rates as they please.:eek:

GY A1

property tax

will people pay it tho

Norwayviking

GY A1 wrote: »

property tax

will people pay it tho

Property tax i dont mind paying.
Its just 100 euros, no big deal.

GY A1

Norwayviking wrote: »

Property tax i dont mind paying.
Its just 100 euros,big deal.

it will start at 100, but how much next year, people cant afford more of this

Norwayviking

GY A1 wrote: »

it will start at 100, but how much next year, people cant afford more of this

I get that, but other countries have had property tax for a long time.
It was really just a matter of time before it came to Ireland.
In Norway we pay 0.5-0.7% of the market value of the house each year,its really nothing new to me.

Grizzly 45

Norwayviking wrote: »

Ok doesnt make sense though

NOTHING very much in Irish life makes any sense at all NV:rolleyes:
Apart from the fact that you as a taxpayer will foot the bill for some of the most dumbest,harebrained,idiotic schemes and ploys ever,while financing a bunch of incompetant clowns of all political hues to run this circus!:mad:

WRONG!! It just STARTS at 100 Euros!!! by next year it could be 500 euros and if you own a "mansion".[Whatever the definition of such is in IrelandAnywhere else it is a house with over 20 rooms.Here it will proably be five!]you could be looking at 2 grand per annum!!!:(

You can be assured you will still be paying for a private company to haul your rubbish away.The roads will still be pot holed,your libary will still be a joke,you will still have to drill a well for relatively clean water,or be installing a filtration system to clean the chemical swill the Irish laughingly call "tap water".So ,if you are a survivalist who has their own well,recycles 95 % of their rubbish,are nowhere near a libary,you pay motor or road tax for driving on the goat tracks..er ..roads here.What service from the councils are you getting for your 100 quid????
You will get a fat assed Jobsworth in local govt thanking you for keeping them in the style they are accustomed to,nothing else!
This is why its becoming a big deal here!!! Weare waking up to the fact that we are not getting value for our money from our Govt compared to Europe.
Yeah in Norway and Europe it is the norm,but you have clean roads,clean water,proper public amenities,and dont have to worry about a bill to call the fire brigade.

Norwayviking

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

NOTHING very much in Irish life makes any sense at all NV:rolleyes:
Apart from the fact that you as a taxpayer will foot the bill for some of the most dumbest,harebrained,idiotic schemes and ploys ever,while financing a bunch of incompetant clowns of all political hues to run this circus!:mad:

WRONG!! It just STARTS at 100 Euros!!! by next year it could be 500 euros and if you own a "mansion".[Whatever the definition of such is in IrelandAnywhere else it is a house with over 20 rooms.Here it will proably be five!]you could be looking at 2 grand per annum!!!:(

You can be assured you will still be paying for a private company to haul your rubbish away.The roads will still be pot holed,your libary will still be a joke,you will still have to drill a well for relatively clean water,or be installing a filtration system to clean the chemical swill the Irish laughingly call "tap water".So ,if you are a survivalist who has their own well,recycles 95 % of their rubbish,are nowhere near a libary,you pay motor or road tax for driving on the goat tracks..er ..roads here.What service from the councils are you getting for your 100 quid????
You will get a fat assed Jobsworth in local govt thanking you for keeping them in the style they are accustomed to,nothing else!
This is why its becoming a big deal here!!! Weare waking up to the fact that we are not getting value for our money from our Govt compared to Europe.
Yeah in Norway and Europe it is the norm,but you have clean roads,clean water,proper public amenities,and dont have to worry about a bill to call the fire brigade.

Yes and we also struggle with the same frustration in norway,where they have billions in a oil fund and dont spend a penny back home,all invested in foreign stocks,but still we have to pay tax to keep the country going.
I remember when my mother and father was on 17% interst rate on there mortage and still had to pay property tax on top of this.
So i dont mind paying at all:D

eth0

Norwayviking wrote: »

And then the motortax on top of this??
Thats what i dont understand.
Why cant the goverment control it all,and then hire some company to do the maintenance??
Alot of money into some privat owned motorway,who probaly can adjust the rates as they please.:eek:

Toll increases do have to be approved I think. The govt can do lots of things, like not bail out private companies, spend money efficiently, tell merkozy to feck off when they get too demanding. but they choose not to for various reasons we'll never understand

Norwayviking wrote: »

I get that, but other countries have had property tax for a long time.
It was really just a matter of time before it came to Ireland.
In Norway we pay 0.5-0.7% of the market value of the house each year,its really nothing new to me.

Property tax is a popular cash cow for governments alright and has been around in various forms for thousands of years because it's easy to collect and hard to avoid.

FF had the good sense (back when they still had a bit of sense) to get rid of it but now the EU insist on having us bring it back because it makes Ireland a less apealing country to live in. It's like the low corporate tax rate, mainland Europe high-tax countries can't stand this and they intend to drain us out financially.