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I don't understand why people are supporting Martin McGuinness

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    #32
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Bergkamp 10 wrote: »
    Hundreds of British soldiers committed alot worse crimes than McGuinness.

    Where is/was the hunt for their convictions?

    Hypocrisy astounding on here. You cant call McGuinness a terrorist and wear a poppy for example unless you are a complete hypocrite and liar. Many in this country do however!

    What do you mean hypocrite? I'm not denying that the British army have been in the wrong. I'm just as critical of the BA, or even more, than I am of McGuinness. It doesn't take away from the fact that what McGuinness did was criminal.


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    #33
    Bergkamp 10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 189 ✭✭Bergkamp 10


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    What do you mean hypocrite? I'm not denying that the British army have been in the wrong. I'm just as critical of the BA, or even more, than I am of McGuinness. It doesn't take away from the fact that what McGuinness did was criminal.
    What did he do personally do?

    Did he kill people and if so, why after all these years and all his enemies hasnt he been put away?

    Maybe because there was no proof?


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    #34
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Whatever you think about the man he is a clever politician. With FF not running a candidate and having seen their support contract, SF are looking to become the largest Republican party in the South. This presidency race is pushing them further into the spotlight and into people's thoughts on voting for them in the future. SF have a long term plan, they are very patient and you could see them in power in within the next three governments. They understand that if their aspersions of a 32 county Ireland is to exist they need the support of the south.


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    #35
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    What do you mean hypocrite? I'm not denying that the British army have been in the wrong. I'm just as critical of the BA, or even more, than I am of McGuinness. It doesn't take away from the fact that what McGuinness did was criminal.

    If you are as critical of every conflict theres ever been, then I say more power to you.

    But if you view this conflict in the north differently than the civil war, the french revolution or any other war/conflict where murder is looked at in consideration of the conditions and environment, then you are indeed being hypocritical.


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    #36
    Mr Trade In
    Registered Users Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭Mr Trade In


    Bergkamp 10 wrote: »
    The one thing I dont understand though is why would Mcguinness go through this sort of thing if he wasnt becoming president.

    He has gained very little by not winning.

    He has all but put a stop to the wolf in Fianna Failure clothing from getting to the Aras, that is a win in my book.


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    #37
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Joey the lips wrote: »
    tbh i cannot understand why people are not supporting martin mc G

    but lets face it. We all know he wont get in. This is just a plan for greater publicity and tbh its working for him

    Given that last night's publicity included refusing to call the murder of Jean McConville a murder, he'd be better off without the publicity.


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    #38
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Didn't he say that "Ms McConvilles family may consider her death a murder and who am I to disagree" or something along those lines.


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    #39
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,168 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Given that last night's publicity included refusing to call the murder of Jean McConville a murder, he'd be better off without the publicity.

    How can he call it a Murder? He can't, not when you take it in the context he sees it from. He said he regretted it happened along with the whole troubles.


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    #40
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Given that last night's publicity included refusing to call the murder of Jean McConville a murder, he'd be better off without the publicity.

    How can he call it a Murder? He can't, not when you take it in the context he sees it from. He said he regretted it happened along with the whole troubles.

    My point is that he's unable to call a murder a murder.

    The fact that he can't is the reason he's unacceptable.


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    #41
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Didn't he say that "Ms McConvilles family may consider her death a murder and who am I to disagree" or something along those lines.

    Yup. Weasel words. "who am I to disagree" is a rhetorical question to make the listener deduce their own interpretation. It's not an answer.


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    #42
    riskyOz
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭riskyOz


    Bergkamp 10 wrote: »
    What did he do personally do?

    Did he kill people and if so, why after all these years and all his enemies hasnt he been put away?

    Maybe because there was no proof?

    He probably could of killed people himself in his early days but what is clear is that he was on the army council of a terrorist group up until 2005. Due to his position on that council it would of been impossible to gather evidence against him as the criminal activities would be carried out by "volunteers" with his orders.


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    #43
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Its easy for anybody sitting in an armchair in a conflict free society like southern Ireland to judge others who were not so fortunate.But if I was a young guy in Northern Ireland in the 70s or 80s depending on which community I had been born into I might/ probably have joined the IRA if Catholic or the UDA if protestant or if I was in the British Army I might well have lost control after being over stressed and provoked.Anyhow thankfully its all over..nothing can be served by digging up the bones and trying to start it all again.Its now a part of history and should be left there.


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    #44
    hangon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 374 ✭✭hangon


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    My point is that he's unable to call a murder a murder.

    That Liam is the truth of the matter without losing those he is trying to lead from the dark past into a democratic peaceful future.
    There is nothing in it for him and when he lose's he will have undone a lot of good work he has done in the NI assembly.
    it was a mistake for SF to have run him.
    SF have a long way to go before they will win high office in the ROI,i think it will be those who were never involved in violence who will make possible major breakthroughs in the future.
    i think SF know this and are willing to take their chance's long
    term.

    Honestly i think they have accepted that they are in it for the long haul.


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    #45
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,168 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    My point is that he's unable to call a murder a murder.

    The fact that he can't is the reason he's unacceptable.

    He does call murder murder or killing or what ever you choose to call it depending on the situation and the people around him.

    What exactly would you like him to say about murder?


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    #46
    hangon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 374 ✭✭hangon


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    He does call murder murder or killing or what ever you choose to call it depending on the situation and the people around him.
    What exactly would you like him to say about murder?

    Gerry Adams carried coffins of Freedom fighters/terrorists during the GFA negotiations,He and MMG had to convince those who did not favour a peace that they were both still 100% Republicans.
    the fact that in the end they convinced so many is a tribute to their political skills IMO.


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    #47
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Sectarian doesn't even cover it, since the IRA murdered at least as many innocent catholics as other religions.

    This is wrong and a lie and you know it Liam.


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    #48
    Nodferatu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Nodferatu


    i can't understand how anyone is supporting any of them, non of them stand out


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    #49
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Oh_Noes wrote: »
    Same go for Dev, Collins et al?

    FOr the last time DeV and Collins were leagues apart from the PIRA in their behaviour - and even then what the hell is so good about DeV? :confused:

    To answer the OP's question:

    nationalism
    to help aid creation of united Ireland
    nod to peace process
    nod to euroskepticism
    support of Sinn Fein in general
    support of IRA campaign and legacy in general


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    #50
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    FOr the last time DeV and Collins were leagues apart from the PIRA in their behaviour

    How? Didnt Collins order manys a death?


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    #51
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    He does call murder murder or killing or what ever you choose to call it depending on the situation and the people around him.

    What exactly would you like him to say about murder?

    Was the murder of Gadaffi a murder? If so are Cameron et al murderers. What about the innocent civilians who died. Were they murdered?


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    #52
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    dublin_1990 wrote: »
    He has admitted his involvement in the IRA. So therefore he has admitted to killing innocent civilians; Men, Women and CHILDREN. I don't care if he says he joined because of the troubles in Derry and it was the fight against the British forces it does not excuse the fact that he was part of an organisation that took the lives away of perfectly innocent people and destroyed the lives of many more. I really don't understand how people can ignore all this and say he wants to do good for Ireland now. A little too late if you ask me. We cannot ignore what he did just because it was long ago. If a convicted murderer or rapist claimed to have changed their ways I would not be voting for them.
    The bottom line is he was part of an organisation that killed innocent civilians and this was even before 1974 which is when he claimed to have left.

    this has been done to death over the past few weeks.


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    #53
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Bergkamp 10 wrote: »
    The one thing I dont understand though is why would Mcguinness go through this sort of thing if he wasnt becoming president.

    He has gained very little by not winning.

    I would disagree - they have gained hugely - they're playing the long game. :D they'll be running the country yet. Thats what has FF and their supporters shaking in their shoes - they little nestegg will be well and truly cracked. :D


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    #54
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    What do you mean hypocrite? I'm not denying that the British army have been in the wrong. I'm just as critical of the BA, or even more, than I am of McGuinness. It doesn't take away from the fact that what McGuinness did was criminal.

    can you elaborate on what he did?


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    #55
    Downlinz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    Would have given him a preference before his assault on Gallagher via his direct line to convicted criminals. Now he gets nothing.


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    #56
    Jaap
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Jaap


    Bergkamp 10 wrote: »
    What did he do personally do?

    Did he kill people and if so, why after all these years and all his enemies hasnt he been put away?

    Maybe because there was no proof?

    I don't think we will ever find out the real truth about what Martin McGuinness has been involved with.
    You can certainly not trust any denials he has made. I wouldn't trust a thing that came out of the man's mouth.
    As for not being put away...he was jailed in the Republic twice.
    He is too important to the British Government to pursue these days even if their HET team uncovered any findings linking him to murders. It is the price the innocent people of NI with no links to terrorists have to pay....accept terrorists and supporters of sectarian murders walking the streets...and even running government.


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    #57
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Downlinz wrote: »
    Would have given him a preference before his assault on Gallagher via his direct line to convicted criminals. Now he gets nothing.

    who's connection - Fianna Fails or Gallaghers- fancy going to a convicted criminal and asking him for money - just shows how slimy FF are :D


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    #58
    Jaap
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Jaap


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    can you elaborate on what he did?

    Have you not been reading the stories in the papers?
    And that is probably the tip of the iceberg unfortunately!


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    #59
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    maccored wrote: »
    How? Didnt Collins order manys a death?

    nah, they just played with conkers, them lot. :D:D


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    #60
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Jaap wrote: »
    Have you not been reading the stories in the papers?
    And that is probably the tip of the iceberg unfortunately!

    ahh the papers - a bit like the bible them papers - versions of stories from people what weren't even around at the time, who concoct their own headlines LOL .

    but then again if people can believe water can be turned into wine in front of their eyes.... ;);)

    speaking of the tip of the iceberg - Gallager is going down like the titanic after the iceberg hit hopefully.


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    #61
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    ahh the papers - a bit like the bible them papers - versions of stories from people what weren't even around at the time, who concoct their own headlines LOL .

    but then again if people can believe water can be turned into wine in front of their eyes.... ;);)

    speaking of the tip of the iceberg - Gallager is going down like the titanic after the iceberg hit hopefully.

    mmg will go faster as terrorist and biggest Liar of all time


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