I don't understand why people are supporting Martin McGuinness

KELTICKNIGHTT · 26-10-2011 1:46pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjubwpREiU0

RandomName2 · 26-10-2011 2:33pm

maccored wrote: »

How? Didnt Collins order manys a death?

Collins' position had a popular mandate (after 1918, before which he could arguably be considered a traitor to democratic, parliamentary Irish nationalism), he didn't plant bombs and he recognised the Irish state when it was formed.

RandomName2 · 26-10-2011 2:35pm

jsd1004 wrote: »

Was the murder of Gadaffi a murder? If so are Cameron et al murderers. What about the innocent civilians who died. Were they murdered?

The murder of Gadaffi was of course a murder. I don't think I saw Cameron pulling the trigger in the video. Think it was a member of the NTC (or supporter of). Which would make him a murderer.

RandomName2 · 26-10-2011 2:36pm

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

mmg will go faster as terrorist and biggest Liar of all time

the fastest terrorist of all time!

Well he did canvass in three counties yesterday!

maccored · 26-10-2011 2:44pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Collins' position had a popular mandate (after 1918, before which he could arguably be considered a traitor to democratic, parliamentary Irish nationalism), he didn't plant bombs and he recognised the Irish state when it was formed.

the 1916 rebels had no mandate.

answer the question, didnt collins kill, and order the deaths of more than a few people? (the answer is Yes, but maybe your rose tinted spectacles wont let you see that)

caseyann · 26-10-2011 2:52pm

Typical a person comes on and says i dont understand why people support Mc Guinness.And rather get an answer the anti Mc Guinness crowd have to come in and wreck the thread with the usual old ****.:rolleyes:
Get a life

I support Mc Guinness because,he is sharp and smart and well spoken articulate and for the people of Ireland,He represents Irish all over Ireland and will protect and stand up for Irish rights and the country and bring in investments.He also has good relations with many top people all over the world.He is highly respected.He brings great leadership and that is a quality none of the others have or even emit.He has strong presence and he is able to let the past go and build on it and shake hands.
Also i like him met him loads of times he is a funny man and very easy to sit in a room with and have a chat with.:)
I personally feel he is the man who should bring Ireland into 2012 and the future.

Godge · 26-10-2011 3:02pm

caseyann wrote: »

Typical a person comes on and says i dont understand why people support Mc Guinness.And rather get an answer the anti Mc Guinness crowd have to come in and wreck the thread with the usual old ****.:rolleyes:
Get a life

I support Mc Guinness because,he is sharp and smart and well spoken articulate and for the people of Ireland,He represents Irish all over Ireland and will protect and stand up for Irish rights and the country and bring in investments.He also has good relations with many top people all over the world.He is highly respected.He brings great leadership and that is a quality none of the others have or even emit.He has strong presence and he is able to let the past go and build on it and shake hands.
Also i like him met him loads of times he is a funny man and very easy to sit in a room with and have a chat with.:)
I personally feel he is the man who should bring Ireland into 2012 and the future.

There are some things in the past that you might want to forgive and forget - say a person was a low-level member of a political party and was involved in some fund-raising and collected a cheque (Gallagher), you might forgive that. Or someone was a member of that party as a student and made some silly decisions as a Minister for another party but claimed to be anti-establishment (Higgins), you could just forget that. I could live with both of those.

But someone who was a high-ranking member of a terrorist organisation and continues to use mealy-mouthed words to avoid labelling the murder of Jean McConville? Can that be forgiven and forgotten? A bit harder, I am afraid and not for me.

caseyann · 26-10-2011 3:16pm

Godge wrote: »

There are some things in the past that you might want to forgive and forget - say a person was a low-level member of a political party and was involved in some fund-raising and collected a cheque (Gallagher), you might forgive that. Or someone was a member of that party as a student and made some silly decisions as a Minister for another party but claimed to be anti-establishment (Higgins), you could just forget that. I could live with both of those.

But someone who was a high-ranking member of a terrorist organisation and continues to use mealy-mouthed words to avoid labelling the murder of Jean McConville? Can that be forgiven and forgotten? A bit harder, I am afraid and not for me.

You are just saying what media says and propaganda fear mongering political terrorists of this country say.
But you can forgive queen and her soldiers and let her into our country while Ireland is still separated and allow unionists to govern over Irish in the north ?Please dont be a hypocrite.
Thats it you stay in the past and i am in present.
Have you seen or heard anyone condemn the deaths when they were Irish by loyalists?

anymore · 26-10-2011 3:18pm

caseyann wrote: »

Typical a person comes on and says i dont understand why people support Mc Guinness.And rather get an answer the anti Mc Guinness crowd have to come in and wreck the thread with the usual old ****.:rolleyes:
Get a life

I support Mc Guinness because,he is sharp and smart and well spoken articulate and for the people of Ireland,He represents Irish all over Ireland and will protect and stand up for Irish rights and the country and bring in investments.He also has good relations with many top people all over the world.He is highly respected.He brings great leadership and that is a quality none of the others have or even emit.He has strong presence and he is able to let the past go and build on it and shake hands.
Also i like him met him loads of times he is a funny man and very easy to sit in a room with and have a chat with.:)
I personally feel he is the man who should bring Ireland into 2012 and the future.

Why caseyanne, is it possible you find him sexy ???;);)

caseyann · 26-10-2011 3:23pm

anymore wrote: »

Why caseyanne, is it possible you find him sexy ???;);)

Where in the hell did you read that into it.:eek::D

maccored · 26-10-2011 3:35pm

Godge wrote: »

say a person was a low-level member of a political party and was involved in some fund-raising and collected a cheque (Gallagher), you might forgive that.

You mean someone who claims they are a 'grass roots' member with no working relationship further up the ladder, yet ends up he organised photo sessions for a fee with the high and apparently mighty? i wouldnt forgive that, as that person would be a bare faced liar.

anymore · 26-10-2011 3:37pm

caseyann wrote: »

Where in the hell did you read that into it.:eek::D

:DAlso i like him met him loads of times he is a funny man and very easy to sit in a room with and have a chat with.
I personally feel he is the man who should bring Ireland into 2012 and the future.

RandomName2 · 26-10-2011 3:43pm

maccored wrote: »

the 1916 rebels had no mandate.

answer the question, didnt collins kill, and order the deaths of more than a few people? (the answer is Yes, but maybe your rose tinted spectacles wont let you see that)

I just acknowledged that he did. You essentially asked whether there were any differences, and there were. The 1916 rebels meanwhile should never -ever- have done what they did. Some did it out of desperation, some due to heroic idealism, others idiotic opportunism. They were all wrong. It took until The Aglo-Irish Treaty that most natonalists came to their senses and saw that the parliamentary approach was the correct one. Others insisted on perpetuating a war against the Irish loyal to the Irish state. Ultimately DeV chose to enter the Dail. So DeV was a hypocrite along with his supporting the creation of an ultra-right wing that brought Ireland back to the Dark Ages. But neither Collins nor DeV were terrorists.

caseyann · 26-10-2011 3:46pm

anymore wrote: »

:DAlso i like him met him loads of times he is a funny man and very easy to sit in a room with and have a chat with.
I personally feel he is the man who should bring Ireland into 2012 and the future.

You read to much into it lol

RandomName2 · 26-10-2011 3:49pm

caseyann wrote: »

he is able to let the past go

Clearly this is untrue.

caseyann wrote: »

and build on it and shake hands.

That much I will agree with you on.

Happyman42 · 26-10-2011 3:55pm

Downlinz wrote: »

Would have given him a preference before his assault on Gallagher via his direct line to convicted criminals. Now he gets nothing.

In fairness now, FF and Gallagher had a nice wee lucrative line to the convicted criminal themselves. The hypocrites SF always said they were?

Chuck Stone · 26-10-2011 3:58pm

If you really want to understand (LOL) then why don't you go up to Derry and spend a few evenings in the pubs of the bogside and listen to the anecdotes of people around the same age as MMcG about the times leading up to and including bloody Sunday.

You're probably only being exposed to the far-removed proselytising of Unionist/British apologists in the Southern establishment meeja.

Ozymandius2011 · 26-10-2011 4:01pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If you really want to understand (LOL) then why don't you go up to Derry and spend a few evenings in the pubs of the bogside and listen to the anecdotes of people around the same age as MMcG about the times leading up to and including bloody Sunday.

What did Jerry McCabe have to do with Bloody Sunday? What did Don Tidey have to do with it? That's just an excuse.

Happytime42 wrote:

In fairness now, FF and Gallagher had a nice wee lucrative line to the convicted criminal themselves. The hypocrites SF always said they were?

He insists he didn't know at the time of Morgan's past.

Chuck Stone · 26-10-2011 4:05pm

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

What did Jerry McCabe have to do with Bloody Sunday? What did Don Tidey have to do with it? That's just an excuse.He insists he didn't know at the time of Morgan's past.

The point of my post.

You missed it.

maccored · 26-10-2011 4:06pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

I just acknowledged that he did. You essentially asked whether there were any differences, and there were. The 1916 rebels meanwhile should never -ever- have done what they did. Some did it out of desperation, some due to heroic idealism, others idiotic opportunism. They were all wrong. It took until The Aglo-Irish Treaty that most natonalists came to their senses and saw that the parliamentary approach was the correct one. Others insisted on perpetuating a war against the Irish loyal to the Irish state. Ultimately DeV chose to enter the Dail. So DeV was a hypocrite along with his supporting the creation of an ultra-right wing that brought Ireland back to the Dark Ages. But neither Collins nor DeV were terrorists.

Collins murdered people - therefore he was a terrorist ... going by the general rule of thumb one hears of around here. Basically what you outlined is exactly what happened in the north .... moving into politics et al. I wish people would get rid of this childish 'oh but the "old IRA" didnt hurt anyone' hogwash.

maccored · 26-10-2011 4:08pm

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

What did Jerry McCabe have to do with Bloody Sunday? What did Don Tidey have to do with it? That's just an excuse.

What have either got to do with mmg?

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

He insists he didn't know at the time of Morgan's past.

Are you telling me he didnt know of morgans past, yet he went to Armagh - across the border - to collect the cheque from him. Gallagher is from Louth, and you;re telling me he didnt know anything about Morgan? Correction - he's saying he "didn't know at the time of Morgan's past" and you actually believe him? Thats incredible.

hangon · 26-10-2011 4:13pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

and there were. The 1916 rebels meanwhile should never -ever- have done what they did. Some did it out of desperation, some due to heroic idealism, others idiotic opportunism. They were all wrong. It took until The Aglo-Irish Treaty that most natonalists came to their senses and saw that the parliamentary approach was the correct one. Others insisted on perpetuating a war against the Irish loyal to the Irish state. Ultimately DeV chose to enter the Dail. So DeV was a hypocrite along with his supporting the creation of an ultra-right wing that brought Ireland back to the Dark Ages. But neither Collins nor DeV were terrorists.

Dev and Collins took part in the rising,what is often overlooked is that they had almost no public support until the executions took place,that is what riled the people.
it was not a very clever move by the UK's force's.
without the executions 1916 might only have gone down as an 'incident' in history,not a source of inspiration for further rebellion.

Collins never intended to stop at the Treaty but saw it as a stepping stone to getting the 32.
Dev was more interested in power,when he sent Collins to do his dirty work and judged that the Treaty was not going down well on the Island he turned on Collins.
it should have been Dev sitting down with Llyod George,he instead let Collins identity be revealed then hung him out to dry.

Llyod gave a very time limited offer of the 26 to Collins,26 or nothing except a major clampdown on Republicans.

MMG and Gerry Adams learned this lesson well and did not divide like Dev and Collins,that is why i still suggest that MMG and G Adams will be judged very well by history.

Happyman42 · 26-10-2011 4:22pm

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

He insists he didn't know at the time of Morgan's past.

Nonsense, everyone who had anything to do with business in the border area knew of Hugh Morgan and Morgan Fuels.

Plus he went from knowing nothing about him to knowing a lot about him in an Ad break. :rolleyes:

hangon · 26-10-2011 4:46pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Plus he went from knowing nothing about him to knowing a lot about him in an Ad break. :rolleyes:

Sure most of us knew nothing about Dana's family until after an Ad break either.
jeepers this campaign was dirtier than any General election!:)

I Heart Internet · 26-10-2011 4:46pm

caseyann wrote: »

.............He is highly respected.................

He's highly tolerated you mean?

Happyman42 · 26-10-2011 4:48pm

hangon wrote: »

Sure most of us knew nothing about Dana's family until after an Ad break either.
jeepers this campaign was dirtier than any General election!:)

Yes, but Dana knew.........I think.:D

caseyann · 26-10-2011 4:53pm

I Heart Internet wrote: »

He's highly tolerated you mean?

You wish thats what i meant.

dogpile · 26-10-2011 5:04pm

caseyann wrote: »

I support Mc Guinness because,he is sharp and smart and well spoken articulate and for the people of Ireland,He represents Irish all over Ireland and will protect and stand up for Irish rights and the country and bring in investments.He also has good relations with many top people all over the world.He is highly respected.He brings great leadership and that is a quality none of the others have or even emit.He has strong presence and he is able to let the past go and build on it and shake hands.
Also i like him met him loads of times he is a funny man and very easy to sit in a room with and have a chat with.:)
I personally feel he is the man who should bring Ireland into 2012 and the future.

All of this...if I was to vote (and I'm not, never have voted in any election/ referendum never will) I would vote McGuinness ....he's not a "career politician" there is a purpose and a reason to him

hangon · 26-10-2011 5:18pm

dogpile wrote: »

if I was to vote (and I'm not, never have voted in any election/ referendum never will)

Moved to the Robert Mugabe forum :pac::pac:

I Heart Internet · 26-10-2011 5:37pm

caseyann wrote: »

You wish thats what i meant.

This reminds me of tin-pot dictators in Central Asia and the Causacus. Western leaders send their ministers to visit them and have them visit their capitals to keep them vaguely on the track towards democracy (and to get their oil and gas companies on the ground). Said tin-pot dictator's media then braodcasts his meetings with western big-wigs to sure up their credibility. "See how much the UK and US respect me"

McGuinness is tolerated because of his position (in the past of course!) within the IRA and the fact that he can bring plenty of people along with him, who might otherwise turn to violence. Not because he's a respected world leader.

I don't understand why people are supporting Martin McGuinness

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