I don't understand why people are supporting Martin McGuinness

Godge

caseyann wrote: »

You are just saying what media says and propaganda fear mongering political terrorists of this country say.
But you can forgive queen and her soldiers and let her into our country while Ireland is still separated and allow unionists to govern over Irish in the north ?Please dont be a hypocrite.
Thats it you stay in the past and i am in present.
Have you seen or heard anyone condemn the deaths when they were Irish by loyalists?

Wow, you think I live in the past?

In the present, I am confronted with a man who has admitted to being a member of a terrorist organisation and refuses to condemn as murder the killings by that terrorist organisation. Furthermore, there is more than a whiff of suspicion that he was involved or had knowledge of some of those murders (I have no problem calling them murders). By today's standards, that is unacceptable to me.

In the past, people accepted the likes of De Valera who was guilty of similar things (though a bit like Mcguinness' claims of leaving the IRA in 1974, he spent a lot of the worst time oft he excesses in the US fund-raising and unlike today, you could not fly home in 1920s). That would not be acceptable to me by today's standards.

So I am not living in the past. A terrorist is unacceptable as President of Ireland by today's standards even if such a person was acceptable in the past. When the MMcG apologists stop the De Valera comparisons, they can start accusing others of living in the past.

Where To

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If you really want to understand (LOL) then why don't you go up to Derry and spend a few evenings in the pubs of the bogside and listen to the anecdotes of people around the same age as MMcG about the times leading up to and including bloody Sunday.

You're probably only being exposed to the far-removed proselytising of Unionist/British apologists in the Southern establishment meeja.

And if you get fed up with listening to barstool republicans you could spend an evening or two with many of the good people of creggan and the bogside and rosemount and everywhere else who had no time for McG and his private army.

Sir Oxman

Downlinz wrote: »

Would have given him a preference before his assault on Gallagher via his direct line to convicted criminals. Now he gets nothing.

that'd be the criminal Gallagher and FF had no problem grabbing 5k from while Cowen lifted his skirts for a photo?:rolleyes:

Godge

I Heart Internet wrote: »

This reminds me of tin-pot dictators in Central Asia and the Causacus. Western leaders send their ministers to visit them and have them visit their capitals to keep them vaguely on the track towards democracy (and to get their oil and gas companies on the ground). Said tin-pot dictator's media then braodcasts his meetings with western big-wigs to sure up their credibility. "See how much the UK and US respect me"

McGuinness is tolerated because of his position (in the past of course!) within the IRA and the fact that he can bring plenty of people along with him, who might otherwise turn to violence. Not because he's a respected world leader.

Yes, didn't McGuinness and Sinn Fein have representatives in Colombia at one stage somewhere out in the jungle. Libya, North Korea, Czechosemtexia (before the fall of the Berlin Wall) and Cuba were other international partners as well, I think.

Godge

where do i go from here wrote: »

And if you get fed up with listening to barstool republicans you could spend an evening or two with many of the good people of creggan and the bogside and rosemount and everywhere else who had no time for McG and his private army.

Or travel abroad and meet the many genuine nationalist people in the North who had to emigrate because of fear of reprisal from their own community. Poor Jean McConville wasn't as lucky as they were to get away not that you would call being forced to emigrate lucky.

I Heart Internet

Godge wrote: »

Yes, didn't McGuinness and Sinn Fein have representatives in Colombia at one stage somewhere out in the jungle. Libya, North Korea, Czechosemtexia (before the fall of the Berlin Wall) and Cuba were other international partners as well, I think.

Czechosemtexia LOL:)

You've put your finger on it there Godge. Martin McGuinness is widely respected internationally by terrorists and terrorist sympathisers. In fact, he's one of the best terrorists there is, I'd say.

RandomName2

hangon wrote: »

Dev and Collins took part in the rising,what is often overlooked is that they had almost no public support until the executions took place,that is what riled the people.
it was not a very clever move by the UK's force's.
without the executions 1916 might only have gone down as an 'incident' in history,not a source of inspiration for further rebellion.

Collins never intended to stop at the Treaty but saw it as a stepping stone to getting the 32.
Dev was more interested in power,when he sent Collins to do his dirty work and judged that the Treaty was not going down well on the Island he turned on Collins.
it should have been Dev sitting down with Llyod George,he instead let Collins identity be revealed then hung him out to dry.

Llyod gave a very time limited offer of the 26 to Collins,26 or nothing except a major clampdown on Republicans.

MMG and Gerry Adams learned this lesson well and did not divide like Dev and Collins,that is why i still suggest that MMG and G Adams will be judged very well by history.

+1 (mostly :P)

Incidentally the deaths of civilians was one of the reasons for the surrender of the 1916 forces - not that that did much to soften the anger of those Dubliners who pelted them with rotten fruit after the surrender.

I don't think Collins did divide - or at least did not do much that he couldn't have otherwise avoided.

MMG and Adams have divided their party as Sinn Fein has always been liable to divide (it's had five so far in its long, disjointed, anachronistic history). Mind you, that division was one of the only good things they have done - they divided in the same way that DeV divided Sinn Fein 3 when he chose to enter the Dail.

caseyann

Godge wrote: »

Wow, you think I live in the past?

In the present, I am confronted with a man who has admitted to being a member of a terrorist organisation and refuses to condemn as murder the killings by that terrorist organisation. Furthermore, there is more than a whiff of suspicion that he was involved or had knowledge of some of those murders (I have no problem calling them murders). By today's standards, that is unacceptable to me.

In the past, people accepted the likes of De Valera who was guilty of similar things (though a bit like Mcguinness' claims of leaving the IRA in 1974, he spent a lot of the worst time oft he excesses in the US fund-raising and unlike today, you could not fly home in 1920s). That would not be acceptable to me by today's standards.

So I am not living in the past. A terrorist is unacceptable as President of Ireland by today's standards even if such a person was acceptable in the past. When the MMcG apologists stop the De Valera comparisons, they can start accusing others of living in the past.

Ah but you dont object to Ireland doing business with terrorists.
Martin Mc Guinness was a freedom fighter and a human rights fighter.

RandomName2

gambiaman wrote: »

that'd be the criminal Gallagher and FF had no problem grabbing 5k from while Cowen lifted his skirts for a photo?:rolleyes:

Nearly. What Gallagher did wasn't criminal - but he did receive it from a criminal Sinn Feiner.

Sir Oxman

RandomName2 wrote: »

Nearly. What Gallagher did wasn't criminal - but he did receive it from a criminal Sinn Feiner.

I didn't say Gallagher was a criminal!

RandomName2

gambiaman wrote: »

I didn't say Gallagher was a criminal!

"that'd be the criminal Gallagher"

typo?

dublin_1990

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

No it doesnt. Anyway if you were born in 1990 you wouldnt know alot about what happened back then, especially if you are from Dublin.

It was a different world further north. But McGuinness has never been convicted of any "murder".

Anyway all this crap about murder. It was a flipping war for feck sake. The British murdered many innocent men women and children.

I heard about a talk recently from a famous speaker, about how he considered joining the IRA when British soldiers broke into his house and made him watch as they broke both his mothers knees.

He didnt join though but resonated with any who did. What would you do then Mr Know it all, on your first post? Probably some Labour TDs son by the timing.

Its easy to talk on the internet about baseless claims about others. Walk a mile in their shoes and see how you would feel about it.

There was no War there was terrorist attacks. I never said the British didn't do the same, that doesn't give the right to kill innocent people. And I never said he was convicted most of them weren't again that doesn't make it right.

And I am not the son or part of labour or any party or TD so stop making up crap. It doesn't matter about where I live or my age, I never claimed to know what it was like to grow up there. The fact is I don't want someone representing my country who was part of an organisation that killed many people... Again I said part of an organisation.

Godge

caseyann wrote: »

Ah but you dont object to Ireland doing business with terrorists.
Martin Mc Guinness was a freedom fighter and a human rights fighter.

You could get a job working for the North Koreans writing that kind of stuff:D.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/E-library.htm

Seriously, are you really suggesting that Martin McGuinness was a freedom fighter? Seriously?

Sir Oxman

RandomName2 wrote: »

"that'd be the criminal Gallagher"

typo?

that'd be the criminal Gallagher and FF had no problem grabbing 5k from while Cowen lifted his skirts for a photo?

a lost 'that', quoting "that'd be the criminal Gallagher" is unfair.

Oh_Noes

where do i go from here wrote: »

And if you get fed up with listening to barstool republicans you could spend an evening or two with many of the good people of creggan and the bogside and rosemount and everywhere else who had no time for McG and his private army.

I've a lot of family from that area and the support for McGuinness and what he has done in the past is extremely solid. He's also a very well-supported constituency MLA and works very hard locally doing a lot for people in the community.

Any people who live in Rosemount or Creggan that oppose McGuinness and what he's done in the past would be in a very small minority in my experience.

dublin_1990

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

The candidate supporters must have a easy day with the blackout tomorrow. Time to sign onto boards.ie for the day and blacken others names with lies!

Joined in February election time but made no post? It must be a late night in the Labour/Fianna Gael offices. Or maybe some Fianna Failer wants his say.

No again I'm not part of any party or any politician. And so what if I didn't make a post before did you not make a first vote before??
If you must know I joined in February to do the online voting. Not the parties you mentioned by the way. Again stop making up crap.

caseyann

Godge wrote: »

You could get a job working for the North Koreans writing that kind of stuff:D.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/E-library.htm

Seriously, are you really suggesting that Martin McGuinness was a freedom fighter? Seriously?

Could say the same for those who turned their backs on Irish up the north and left to fight for themselves so Irish could have it cushy down here.
Ostriches the British in north and Irish in south lay bigger eggs and stick their heads further in the sand then them.:D

Yes he is and so is everyone of them before peace was brought about by political means.
The ones now think they are but really need to stop.

Chuck Stone

dublin_1990 wrote: »

There was no War there was terrorist attacks.

What age are you? 'Terrorists' bad - Armies good is it?

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I've a lot of family from that area and the support for McGuinness and what he has done in the past is extremely solid. He's also a very well-supported constituency MLA and works very hard locally doing a lot for people in the community.

Any people who live in Rosemount or Creggan that oppose McGuinness and what he's done in the past would be in a very small minority in my experience.

I concur. My Father's side come from the Creggan and all my Uncles were young men during those times and some of the stories they would tell you about what they lived through would make you really angry.

dublin_1990

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What age are you? 'Terrorists' bad - Armies good is it?

What Are you saying? No read what I wrote and you might understand what I mean, stop twisting my words. I clearly said I didn't agree with what the British army did and I also said I didn't agree with what they IRA did. Seriously??? my age?? What's that got to do with it?

LuckyLloyd

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjubwpREiU0

I remember watching this interview live and cringing at Paxman throughout. It is amusing that anti McGuinness people look at pieces like this and think he comes out badly from them. You see what you want to see I guess.

caseyann

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I remember watching this interview live and cringing at Paxman throughout. It is amusing that anti McGuinness people look at pieces like this and think he comes out badly from them. You see what you want to see I guess.

I found a great piece written here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/world/europe/irish-election-portends-signs-of-reconciliation.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Should he upset heavy odds and win, Mr. McGuinness would move from his current base in Belfast, the Northern Ireland capital, to the Irish president’s residence, an 18th-century mansion outside Dublin that was home to Britain’s viceroys in Ireland. At a stroke, he would become a symbol of something that has been Sinn Fein’s ultimate goal, the reunification of Ireland under a single government in Dublin.
Irish commentators have seen his candidacy as part of a long-term plan to create a new “normal” in Ireland, slowly erasing the barriers between north and south. “Clearly, the people of Ireland would see me as president for all the 32 counties,” he said in an interview as he prepared for a speech in Galway to a hall packed with thunderously enthusiastic Sinn Fein loyalists.

Like Mr. McGuinness, both men have pledged to promote investment in Ireland to help speed up the country’s economic recovery. But neither has anything like the public profile of Mr. McGuinness, especially in the United States, where the former I.R.A. commander has been an energetic envoy for the Belfast peace pact, particularly among the 37 million Americans with Irish ancestry.

Mr. McGuinness has pulled off improbable outcomes before, notably in helping to bring Sinn Fein, the I.R.A. and Northern Ireland’s mostly Roman Catholic Republicans into the 1998 Good Friday peace agreement. That pact ended the 30 years of “Troubles,” which killed more than 3,500 people in Northern Ireland, 60 percent of them in I.R.A. shootings and bombings. Building on that record in the election campaign, he has vowed, as he said in an interview in Galway, to use the presidency as a platform to “further stabilize the peace process.”

Dudess

Chuck Stone wrote: »

dublin_1990 wrote: »

There was no War there was terrorist attacks.

What age are you? 'Terrorists' bad - Armies good is it?

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I've a lot of family from that area and the support for McGuinness and what he has done in the past is extremely solid. He's also a very well-supported constituency MLA and works very hard locally doing a lot for people in the community.

Any people who live in Rosemount or Creggan that oppose McGuinness and what he's done in the past would be in a very small minority in my experience.

I concur. My Father's side come from the Creggan and all my Uncles were young men during those times and some of the stories they would tell you about what they lived through would make you really angry.

Absolutely - it was vile how catholics were treated, but what did e.g. Jerry McCabe do to deserve what was done to him? Can you imagine the hurt it causes his family to hear stuff like McGuinness is a great man etc...

acer1000

People are supporting MMcG, because we're sick of the posturing and the BS, here in the 26.

The topic of IRA membership and what he did or didn't do is just middle class tosh, at this stage. I'm saying this as somebody who couldn't give a monkey's about a united Ireland, or the Irish language.

FFS, the type of business ethos and practice as represented by Sean G, which were mainly F Fail in nature, but not solely so, has wrecked this country. It has majorly contributed to an escalating suicide problem with general misery for many.

Use your imaginations, there are many ways to kill a person. Do it indirectly and the idiots won't notice.

On Frontline, who had the balls and the spirit to adequately tackle the symbol of what's wrong in our little pisspot of a country?

maccored

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I remember watching this interview live and cringing at Paxman throughout. It is amusing that anti McGuinness people look at pieces like this and think he comes out badly from them. You see what you want to see I guess.

You know, i reckon mr paxman posts on this forum - notice how he kept asking the same question, even though it was already answered? There many threads on here that go the same way ....

Where To

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I've a lot of family from that area and the support for McGuinness and what he has done in the past is extremely solid. He's also a very well-supported constituency MLA and works very hard locally doing a lot for people in the community.

Any people who live in Rosemount or Creggan that oppose McGuinness and what he's done in the past would be in a very small minority in my experience.

I'm not referring to those that oppose him, I'm referring to those that despise him and his fellow criminals. Do you see much support in Derry from the dozens of families that these mercenaries and profiteers destroyed?

maccored

where do i go from here wrote: »

I'm not referring to those that oppose him, I'm referring to those that despise him and his fellow criminals. Do you see much support in Derry from the dozens of families that these mercenaries and profiteers destroyed?

Do you honestly believe there is anyone in the north who is happy that such a conflict happened?

My family in the north werent very big SF supporters at all over the years, but they all want to see mmg doing well - so theres certainly some who didnt have time for him before, but who do now.

The Cookie Monster

acer1000 wrote: »

People are supporting MMcG, because we're sick of the posturing and the BS, here in the 26.

The topic of IRA membership and what he did or didn't do is just middle class tosh, at this stage. I'm saying this as somebody who couldn't give a monkey's about a united Ireland, or the Irish language.

FFS, the type of business ethos and practice as represented by Sean G, which were mainly F Fail in nature, but not solely so, has wrecked this country. It has majorly contributed to an escalating suicide problem with general misery for many.

Use your imaginations, there are many ways to kill a person. Do it indirectly and the idiots won't notice.

On Frontline, who had the balls and the spirit to adequately tackle the symbol of what's wrong in our little pisspot of a country?

Great post, I used this analogy while arguing with a FF voter recently, he said he hed never vote for SF because of their murderous past, which is fair enough, i then asked him how many people he knew who died at the hands of SF, and how many people he knew who had commited suicied after losing jobs or houses due to FF handling of our economy and subsequent social cuts.................

his final answer was SF 0, FF 2.

phog

maccored wrote: »

Do you honestly believe there is anyone in the north who is happy that such a conflict happened?

My family in the north werent very big SF supporters at all over the years, but they all want to see mmg doing well - so theres certainly some who didnt have time for him before, but who do now.

and they were some you had time for him before that dont now, CIRA/RIRA????

He dismisses them and the cause they are fighting for but he tries to justify the atrocities of the IRA that he joined, supported and commanded.

Sacred_git

dublin_1990 wrote: »

He has admitted his involvement in the IRA. So therefore he has admitted to killing innocent civilians; Men, Women and CHILDREN. I don't care if he says he joined because of the troubles in Derry and it was the fight against the British forces it does not excuse the fact that he was part of an organisation that took the lives away of perfectly innocent people and destroyed the lives of many more. I really don't understand how people can ignore all this and say he wants to do good for Ireland now. A little too late if you ask me. We cannot ignore what he did just because it was long ago. If a convicted murderer or rapist claimed to have changed their ways I would not be voting for them.
The bottom line is he was part of an organisation that killed innocent civilians and this was even before 1974 which is when he claimed to have left.

and whats your opinion on the many highly powerful presidents/prime ministers who encourage the killing of innocent civilians if they are in the wrong place at the time, we welcomed one of them over here a couple of months ago!!!
Martin McGuinness would not be the first political figure to be elected to a high profile position within a country nor will he be the last!!! The IRA were gone and came back due to British brutality up north, i dont support killing people but in reality it was the only option and they succeeded in getting a level playing field for the catholics - eventually, just a shame killing lots of people got the message across - welcome to the world!!! You need to wake up from your bed of roses, the tiger has long since gone,and it looks like he went back to India!!

dublin_1990

Sacred_git wrote: »

You need to wake up from your bed of roses, the tiger has long since gone,and it looks like he went back to India!!

No I'm aware of that, thanks for your pointless comment though.