Living off grid question

eco2live

Hey all,

I am greatly interested in survival & self sufficiency and off grid living but with the way society is structured I think my options are very limited. I am renting and have no chance of buying land or property at the mo. I have looked into eco communities and such but all I have seen require money and really are not what I had in mind.

Are we the only creatures on this planet that depend on others for providing a home? and at what cost 35 year mortgages, 2 jobs, kids minded by others. It just feels like modern slavery.

I want to build my own home and provide my own food. I want to live in a community that take care of each other and help build each others homes in the knowledge that when they need help they will get it locally.

I feel that most society in general are one dimensional sheep and the media do not represent me with their greed inducing spin.

Is there any hope people?

Grizzly 45

You are going to have to define as to what you call off grid living to yourself.Do you mean drop out of society completly??That is becoming tougher every day.Especially on a little island like here.Stateside it is still a distinct possibility,as Americans move on average about 5 times in their lifetimes to different States.Us Europeans have a tendncy to stay put more or less.Which makes it easier to track us down.Ireland in all fairness to it,is still one of the last countries where you can duck down and disapper in Europe pretty easily.Ever wonder why we have a lot of "foriginers" over here??It isnt for our beautiful weather and scenery and craic,despite what alot of them claim to the contrary.
Maybe it is because Ireland hasnt any National ID card system....Yet.:rolleyes:
Or that you have to register your address with your local council to recive the basics of society,like schools,power sewage,etc.
Or a plethora of other paper trails that is part and parcel of European life.

So yes it can be done here,but from what you describe you want a more alternative"leave us the Hell alone"type community?
That friend,is the biggest challange and bugbear of survivalism.Setting up a group or community.As survivalists tend to be very individualistic people,its hard for them to lose their independance and take orders from somone else,so groups are the ultimate challange to keep together and functioning as a unit.
Then if you do set up this community or family..Because it avoids contact with the rest of society.It attracts society..Of the unpleasent Govt types!!:( You got kids..Are you going to home school them??

BING! Attraction no 1 Social workers and educators!! Are they being schooled adaquately [in Gaelic] no doubt!:rolleyes::rolleyes:.Thuss having to invite Govt busybodies and jobsworthies into your house to snoop around and report back to their bosses on the place,and wether the children are "in danger".
Send them to school locally.BING! Another light goes on!! Kids start to mix and blabber to their pals about all the plans and great things you are intending to do..[Unless you train kids to know when to STFU about certain things] This gets back to a "concerned parent",who informs the authorthies and before you know it..Govt types on your front door again!!:(

Off grid living is a massive survival aspect in itself and a sub forum could be dedicated to it .Its not simple ,and is even in America very difficult,so here it would be doubly difficult.

eth0

There is hope. The great robot revolution (although not as portrayed in sci fi), resource depletion will put an end to overconsumption and the idea that everyone needs a job. Jobs are a relatively recent invention in history and we're already seeing the rise of the 'unemployable underclass'. We simply arent buying enough crap we dont
need to keep everyone busy

Right now if if i want a new kettle i have to buy one made by a massive company that employs lots of admin staff and chinese workers slaving away. In 10 or 20 years i might print one using a 3D printer that was printed by my neighbour's 3D printer using an open source design

We won't see the end of people having jobs completely but this idea of everyone being expected to have one or be considered a lazy dole sponger will be gone out the window fairly soon

Red Neck Hughie

Get off your hole and do a bit in the back garden, start with composting (grass and kitcken waste). Its free, beneficial to everybody and not rocket science. Then grow some simple veg. I've grown savage pea plants from a 2L milk bottle. Lettuces in 500ml flower pot, tomatoes, strawberries, gooseberries, even potatoes in the compost bin (which was made from scrap). Any amount of herbs. And a lot more I've not mentioned.

This stuff is not hard to do even in rented accomodation. Its not expensive either.
Use canvas type bags and hang them against appropriate walls to maximise light.The kids love it and it helps them see where food comes from. If you ask the right people for laying hens you might get them for free. I know a lad who has farmed rabbits for the pot.:) Fishing if you do it right is almost free after the first purchases.
Fair enough you wont feed yourself much but its a start and you seriously need some positive thinking. Being self sufficient doesn't mean you need to opt out of society.
Apologies to yourself and mods if this is not allowed but i've glanced at your profile and i see you're posting in a game forum. So you dont like society still?
Of course you do. We all do. We just dont need to depend on it for the things our folks did for themselves.

Sticky_Fingers

Red Neck Hughie wrote: »

Apologies to yourself and mods if this is not allowed but i've glanced at your profile and i see you're posting in a game forum. So you dont like society still?
Of course you do. We all do. We just dont need to depend on it for the things our folks did for themselves.

Now now, lets not be throwing stones here, the OPs interest in games (like my own) doesn't mean a thing. Living off grid and going self sufficient does not mean you have to become a complete Luddite and shut yourself away from the world. It simply means (my take on it anyway) is that like many people on here they are getting fed up with the way things are going with Western society and wish to be left alone from too much government interference and "the greater good" busybodies who effectively force people to abide by their rules without any opt out clause (as long as your actions cannot harm anyone else but yourself that is).

As an example rules and regulations make it very difficult for a person to physically build their own home with their bare hands, it seems you need all manner of certs and qualifications before you are even allowed pick up a shovel. Thats understandable if there is a possibility that you are going to sell on in the future or want insurance cover but for people who don't want to sell/insure then that are stuck.

my 2 cents

Red Neck Hughie

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Now now, lets not be throwing stones here, the OPs interest in games (like my own) doesn't mean a thing. Living off grid and going self sufficient does not mean you have to become a complete Luddite and shut yourself away from the world. It simply means (my take on it anyway) is that like many people on here they are getting fed up with the way things are going with Western society and wish to be left alone from too much government interference and "the greater good" busybodies who effectively force people to abide by their rules without any opt out clause (as long as your actions cannot harm anyone else but yourself that is).

As an example rules and regulations make it very difficult for a person to physically build their own home with their bare hands, it seems you need all manner of certs and qualifications before you are even allowed pick up a shovel. Thats understandable if there is a possibility that you are going to sell on in the future or want insurance cover but for people who don't want to sell/insure then that are stuck.

my 2 cents

I'm not throwing stones but defending society I hope. O/p had a very negative perception there. As for certs in building, how many brickies/plasterers/carpenters are properly qualified?
Ask a properly qualified tradesman for the right answer, if you can find one.
You might need an engineer to sign off on quality, to keep a bank happy and if you can build to safe standards without training fair play to you.
No such certs needed unless you want grid electricity but thats 'society' isn't it.
Otherwise its a more-free country than you think. We just need to get off our arses and do more, (myself included, posting online at 1.20 am and 9am ffs)

eco2live

Thanks for the posts lads. I was not trying to be negative in my OP. A bit hopeless maybe from a housing option . I never said that I wanted to lock myself away from society. It was more the dependence issue rather then excluding myself. I am not adverse to society or want to lock myself or my family away from society. I understand and accept the requirement to contribute to healthcare, education and other public services.

Yes I like hard work, gaming, movies, art, books, food, music and loads of other things in life. I have no objection to any form of entertainment. I could live without most or all of it if need be.

I also really appreciate the small things in life like time spent with family, friends, a shower, a bed, warmth, food. I have no interest in hand bags, designer clothes, sports cars or bling of any kind.

I don't like greed and globalization and the effect that it is having on the media and people in general and I see trouble ahead.

I am renting and only have a small garden that the landlord put a bit of time into and I have nowhere at the mo to grow some food. I have inquired into an allotment but I have to wait for one for a while now. Its not a matter of getting off my arse

I have some provisions and have some recent skills in outdoor survival (that I greatly enjoyed). This is a new thing for me and I am looking for some pointers.

When I said off grid I meant that I would love to build an eco friendly home, grow and store my own food, generate my own electricity. I would also also like to take precautions to protect the same if need be. Dreams.....

By the way when I said society I really mean the government, big business and the establishment rather then the people although I do wish more people where not so greedy and had more respect for each others basic rights, a home and the ability to provide for themselves and their family.

Games are good

Grizzly 45

Terminology means alot here..."off grid" in the US /Western survival context means that you are trying to live as free as possible,with as little Govt interferance as possible in your life.Nothing to do with being energy self sufficent,or "homebrew power":)

the drifter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Terminology means alot here..."off grid" in the US /Western survival context means that you are trying to live as free as possible,with as little Govt interferance as possible in your life.Nothing to do with being energy self sufficent,or "homebrew power":)

I wish :P

eco2live

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Terminology means alot here..."off grid" in the US /Western survival context means that you are trying to live as free as possible,with as little Govt interferance as possible in your life.Nothing to do with being energy self sufficent,or "homebrew power":)

Ah I see. Sorry for the confusion. I thought it meant off the power grid

Little government interference is good also as they seem to make a bags of anything they do get involved in.

Ophiopogon

I read an article about a guy called Steve James who builds he's own low impact dwellings on leased land from local resources.

He builds temporary homes so does not require planning permission. Obviously,this does require a lot of skill but you can build on your skills now and also a lot of the time learn as you go along. It could be interesting to solve the lack of funds.

Can't find the article but heres a link that explains it a bit better.

eco2live

Ophiopogon wrote: »

I read an article about a guy called Steve James who builds he's own low impact dwellings on leased land from local resources.

He builds temporary homes so does not require planning permission. Obviously,this does require a lot of skill but you can build on your skills now and also a lot of the time learn as you go along. It could be interesting to solve the lack of funds.

Can't find the article but heres a link that explains it a bit better.

Thanks, that is the type of thing I am interested in.

Grizzly 45

I've met this guy..He has built his own straw bale house in Ireland for about five grand..In the middle of the celtic tiger as well.

www.manchan.com

Reckon if you had land and wanted a quick "tempoary structure" I'd put it together out of 40ft containers.
BTW,if a " tempoary structure" is on your land for over seven years and no one objects to it.I do belive it becomes permanent then.

Grizzly 45

eco2live wrote: »

Ah I see. Sorry for the confusion. I thought it meant off the power grid

No worries..

Little government interference is good also as they seem to make a bags of anything they do get involved in.

100% true...Best Govt is the least governing..Thomas Jefferson

Sticky_Fingers

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I've met this guy..He has built his own straw bale house in Ireland for about five grand..In the middle of the celtic tiger as well.

www.manchan.com

If it's the same guy I'm thinking about I think he had massive problems with dampness since he could not get the straw down to 20% moisture content needed. I think he also ran foul of An Board Planala (SP?). He wanted to demolish his straw bale house and rebuild but they won't let him because it was architecturally significant or something like that. The mind boggles

*Note this is just something I heard, might be complete nonsense

Reckon if you had land and wanted a quick "tempoary structure" I'd put it together out of 40ft containers.
BTW,if a " tempoary structure" is on your land for over seven years and no one objects to it.I do belive it becomes permanent then.

Of course you would not be advocating this because it is against planning laws :rolleyes:

To be clear here, if you want to put up a structure of a given size or for use as living accommodation on your land, temporary or otherwise you will need to get planning permission for it.

Grizzly 45

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

If it's the same guy I'm thinking about I think he had massive problems with dampness since he could not get the straw down to 20% moisture content needed. I think he also ran foul of An Board Planala (SP?). He wanted to demolish his straw bale house and rebuild but they won't let him because it was architecturally significant or something like that. The mind boggles

*Note this is just something I heard, might be complete nonsense

I'll ask him meself.As I know him pretty well. As soon as I can get hold of him.:)

Of course you would not be advocating this because it is against planning laws :rolleyes:

Of Course Not!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
But it isnt as that is LAW regarding temp structures.Somone has to object about it..I'll dig out the revelant act if you want.:cool:

To be clear here, if you want to put up a structure of a given size or for use as living accommodation on your land, temporary or otherwise you will need to get planning permission for it.

Hmmm,that means an awful lot of Hippies andnew age travellers in Clare are breaking the law then...Ah!!! thats proably why the use busses or old caravans that dont move for years ????:rolleyes::rolleyes:



http://www.channel4.com/programmes/planning-outlaws/4od

Pretty intresting documentary about those kind of questions.

Tabnabs

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Of Course Not!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
But it isnt as that is LAW regarding temp structures.Somone has to object about it..I'll dig out the revelant act if you want.:cool:

Here's a good explanation of the law

https://galwayplanningblog.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/default-planning-permission-after-7-years/

Red Neck Hughie

Eco2live how about you view it from a different angle. Your landlord presumably wont let you dig the garden - fair enough that's out. (Personally I wouldn't insult him/her with my hard earned cash anymore)

You don't own land - well building your own would probably mean getting ownership of land on trust of repayment in the future. Otherwise forget it. (Something like a mortgage possibly...see you just want what everyone else wants).

Well then...
Take a chance and go out on a limb. Ask for the use of a couple of neighbour's gardens, maybe in return for cutting grass etc. For most people it's something to be avoided. If you'd feel a bit of a weirdo knocking on doors try initiating something online. The community feeling you are looking for has to start somewhere, probably best by saying hello to a neighbour. If it starts by buying your way into a rich-hippie village then we're all ****ed.

Whereabouts are you anyway? Maybe we can help.
****ing word editor edited my ****ing profanities

Grizzly 45

Ask your landlord if you can do a barrel garden on the balcony or in the utility area.[Most are agreeable so long as they dont have to tidy up after you leave and move out.And of course that the balcony will hold the weight too!]
Get a blue plastic 55 gal drum and drill various size holes in it on all sides after removing the top,dont forget the bottom drainage holes.Fill it with earth and compost in a 50/50 mix and then plant your various veggie plants in the different sized holes and water it.Takes about 2hours to do properly costs 20 quid for the barrel,and the use of a keyhole saw and or amulti core drill bit and drill[Beg borrow or steal if not to hand]

To make it easier to move about,I'd suggest a four wheeled little trolly which you seat the barrel on ,as moving about a 1/4 ton of earth isnt that much fun,and it allows light to get to the plants.Did it this year with strawberry plants.Am amazed at the produce and the amount of ground saved by doing this.No weeding,as you know what soil you put in there,fertilize once inawhile with liquid fertilizer concentrates.Pretty ideal garden for a city dweller.:cool:

eco2live

I was talking to my Wife last night and we are going to move in the new year. Landlord here won't let us do anything with the place. I am in a housing estate in Kildare at the mo but can move wherever needed as I can work from home.

Builderfromhell

The whole topic of building your own low energy house in a remote area without planning permission might be worthy of another thread.

But for now, I can confirm you even need planning permission for a mobile home on a vacant site as well as permission for water treatment unit, new entrance etc.
As it should be if you think about it. can't have people building crappy houses and polluting rivers, streams and ground water with effluent.

Grizzly 45

Builderfromhell wrote: »

As it should be if you think about it. can't have people building crappy houses and polluting rivers, streams and ground water with effluent.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Words Celtic Tiger,shoddy quick buck building and planning,flood plains,rural septic tanks, and brown paper envelopes suggest that your last sentence MIGHT be taken with a pinch of salt????:D:D:D

Corsendonk

There use to be a loophole for a polytunnel, a few people built them to prove they were working the land of the plot to strengten their case for planning permission. Another problem is the planning authorities have a limited imagination, if you go to them with plans for a dormer bungalow your more likely to get that signed off than say a super energy efficient house buried in the ground out of the neighbours view. I have friends that built super sized dormers iin North co dub because it was the only design the planners would go for in a rural setting.

I can't see anyone letting you use land for free with this been Ireland and the Bull McCabe mentality of holding what you got within families.

The barrel on the balcony planting method works for strawberries, herbs and bush toms but its very limited if you want a decent crop of spuds, nothing beats drills.

cards

Some interesting options on http://www.diggersanddreamers.org.uk/index.php?one=mes&two=mes&sel=pro

for anyone that dreams of a different way but can't find a way.

CamperMan

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I've met this guy..He has built his own straw bale house in Ireland for about five grand..In the middle of the celtic tiger as well.

www.manchan.com

Reckon if you had land and wanted a quick "tempoary structure" I'd put it together out of 40ft containers.
BTW,if a " tempoary structure" is on your land for over seven years and no one objects to it.I do belive it becomes permanent then.

but how much did the land cost him?

Grizzly 45

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'll ask him meself.As I know him pretty well. As soon as I can get hold of him.:)

Just to revitalise this thread.
I spent an hour today talking to him about the joys and pitfalls of alt material building here and his experiances of it.

1] No he did not build this with planning permission. County council werent intrested.Considerd it a non runner and a pile of straw bales not even a temp structure. No he had nothing along the lines of it being perserved as a unique structure etc..Thinks it has fallen down by now.
Some councils are more liberal than others on this whole plannig/temp structure lark than others.So you would have to sound them out first in a roundabout way.

2] No.. HE WOULD NOT RECOMMEND straw bale houses in our very inclement weather. They will get damp,no matter what you do to try and keep them dry in weather proofing .

3] Dont bother trying for planning permission for houses made out of waste tyres here.Even if underground...Councils consider them a fire hazard.

4] Best idea here would be hemp mixed with lime,poured in channels and built up as walls.
At worst I suppose if things got really bad we could have a decent smoke from our burning houses!:D

Doc Ruby

How about a rammed earth house, building materials are all but free and after it dries its basically perfect for our climate?

krissovo

Doc Ruby wrote: »

How about a rammed earth house, building materials are all but free and after it dries its basically perfect for our climate?

I like the look of this, I wonder could it be used as a small garden wall or does it need a structure and roof?

Red Neck Hughie

krissovo wrote: »

I like the look of this, I wonder could it be used as a small garden wall or does it need a structure and roof?

I've no experience of those walls but even a normal block or brick wall suffers from water penetration if the top is not capped, frost damage is far worse then also. I assume the same would be true for rammed earth walls and the whole structure would be eventually soften completely.
Otherwise - they are pretty cool.

Doc Ruby

krissovo wrote: »

I like the look of this, I wonder could it be used as a small garden wall or does it need a structure and roof?

As far as I know once it hardens its to all intents and purposes rock.

krissovo

I may give it a go, I have loads of what appears suitable material for this and no cash for a real wall. Plus a block wall looks horrible, the worst that can happen is that I have to knock it down and start again.