When is a panel too old?

seosamh

KoolKid wrote: »

Again I must apologise for my PS skills..:o


Using this configuration with duel end of line resistors will give you the 3 individual zones fully tampered. The zones will need to be set to duel EOL.

This is great Koolkid, thanks. Can you just explain how dual EOL works and how the resistors are satisfying the panel so it is possible to get away with using one wire. Why two resistors?
I have the sensor contacts wired without tampers and I simply cut one wire which then is inserted into the contact and the other end coming out of the sensor and then use a piece of wire to bridge the sensor and contact. Then I select an uncut wire to pair with this at the panel to complete the circuit.
But rewiring them the way you drew would be a great way to solve this.
I don't have the engineer's code so I think I will need to reset the panel and programme the zones again.

KoolKid

seosamh wrote: »

This is great Koolkid, thanks. Can you just explain how dual EOL works and how the resistors are satisfying the panel so it is possible to get away with using one wire. Why two resistors?

Basically the system is measuring the resistence on the loop to determine the alarm condition of that zone.
One resistor is in series with the tamper & the second is across the zone.
This results in the following conclusions.
Resistence 4k7 Zone closed Tamper Closed:
The alarm sees the 4k7 resistor thats in series with the tamper but does not see the second resistor because the
zone being closed short out that resistor.
Resistence 9k4 Zone Open Tamper Closed:
The alarm sees the 4k7 resistor thats in series with the tamper but also sees the 4k7 resistor across the zone becuase the zone is now open and not shorting out the second resistor.
Resistence low or circut open:
If there is a low resistence short circut or an open circut the alarm will see neither resistors & register a tamper on that zone.
The reason you can return the zone on a single cable is because one side of each zone is a common negetive. If you meter out the continuity between each of these & negetive you will see they are all the one.

seosamh wrote: »

I have the sensor contacts wired without tampers and I simply cut one wire which then is inserted into the contact and the other end coming out of the sensor and then use a piece of wire to bridge the sensor and contact. Then I select an uncut wire to pair with this at the panel to complete the circuit.
But rewiring them the way you drew would be a great way to solve this.
I don't have the engineer's code so I think I will need to reset the panel and programme the zones again.

Where are the resistors at the moment?
Is it currently single , duel or NON EOL.

KoolKid

Apologies....:o
Just looked back over this and seen the panel you have.
Duel resistors are not an option. The configuration across the zone should still work & you would have the option to add tampers in this manner when you upgrade.

fred funk }{

I'm not sure what panel you're using but Koolkids way will only work when one side of the zone input on the panel is negative common. For example, that method won't work on HKC panels.

KoolKid

Another + for Siemens.....:D;)

seosamh

KoolKid wrote: »

Apologies....:o
Just looked back over this and seen the panel you have.
Duel resistors are not an option. The configuration across the zone should still work & you would have the option to add tampers in this manner when you upgrade.

So I ignore the tampers? How would that look in terms of your diagram? Thanks.

KoolKid

Take away the TT and the resistors. All the blacks into one side of the zone & return on the blue yellow & green as is.

altor

seosamh wrote: »

Following on from before, I used 2 of the 4 spare wires in a 6 wire cable to include the patio door with the hall door on its entry/exit zone. (2 wires were already in use for the veluxes and kitchen window)

Then last night I was watching Panorama about burglaries in which one break-in was done by removing slates from the roof, enough to allow the burglar to slip in and then he entered the room by a hatch door in the ceiling. THis put me thinking, that this is a quieter way of gaining entry, no glass breaking required. More probable I suppose is entry through forcing the patio door open. Anyway it convinced me that I should try putting in a PIR in the livingroom.

So back to my cable, can I use the two wires that I have used for the patio door for a PIR as well and then the final 2 wires for power to the PIR. Then can I put the PIR on the entry/exit zone with the hall door and patio door?

Thanks.

Before you go to all the trouble, do you have engineer access to the alarm to change the zone to allow access to this area when you come in the door ?

seosamh

No, unfortunately I don't have the engineer's code but I have the manual. There are only 5 zones so it should be easy to reprogramme after I reset the panel, right?

KoolKid

That panel would be easy enough.You will get help here if your stuck anyway.

seosamh

So the solution only works for panels like mine and if I upgrade later I can't choose a HKC panel cause it doesn't allow a common negative? I suppose I could get a wireless PIR at that stage to avoid the hassle to laying a wire. But Seimens will work alright? I recently installed a HKC hybrid and it was straigtforward enough. Do Seimens do a hybrid panel?

KoolKid

All the Siemens panels can be Hybrid.
They also have some nice features / options over HKC.
Like access, X10 and Web server.

seosamh

KoolKid wrote: »

All the Siemens panels can be Hybrid.
They also have some nice features / options over HKC.
Like access, X10 and Web server.

Sounds good. Are they comparable price-wise? I think I paid 160e for 10 zone hybrid HKC.

KoolKid

They would be yes. Wireless devices should be cheaper.

altor

seosamh wrote: »

Sounds good. Are they comparable price-wise? I think I paid 160e for 10 zone hybrid HKC.

Price wise if you do want the Web server you will be paying extra for it. Same with the X-10.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Same with the X-10.

X10 is standard on all Siemens panels.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

X10 is standard on all Siemens panels.

So you don't need to buy any of the X-10 devices ?

KoolKid

The feature is standard as is wireless, but you have to buy those as well,,;)
Access is standard, but you might have to buy a mag lock:rolleyes:
Come to think of it , you have to buy sensors for the windows & doors as well.
Is that not the case with HKC then???:D:rolleyes:

fred funk }{

I'm using the siemens a lot lately and my customers think the web access is great and when a customer gets the x10 as well, it really blows them away.

The SPC 4300 is a great panel. 8 on board zones, web access and x10.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

The feature is standard as is wireless, but you have to buy those as well,,;)
Access is standard, but you might have to buy a mag lock:rolleyes:
Come to think of it , you have to buy sensors for the windows & doors as well.
Is that not the case with HKC then???:D:rolleyes:

You make it sound like your getting something for nothing, like everything, your not

KoolKid

Like for like your getting Access & X10 over the HKC 1070 for the same price. Try to say the devices arn't included is a bit silly really.
I could think up a million examples & anologys , but I think most sensible people will see the difference when comparing like with like.

altor

I am sure we all could. Handy features if they are going to be used.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

I am sure we all could. Handy features if they are going to be used.

Taking that logic we would all still be on Scope 3s or the likes.
So no its Siemens has more features( for the same price) but no one wants them & no one will use them.

altor

Yes I agree, most people wont use access control on there home. Some people will use X10.

KoolKid

They will use what they are told about. The ammount of stuff we are doing with cause & effect now is amazing. Especially with the addition of mapping gates.
People like features, featues sell devices, whether it be alarms , cars, phones or TVs.

altor

Yes they will and I agree you cant have enough features in a control panel. The web server should be standard also.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

The web server should be standard also.

I have suggested that many times to Ian & Troy. That & built in WiFi & I would be putting in nothing else.:cool:

fred funk }{

When I show potential customers, who aren't on a tight budget, the x10 working in conjunction with the web access, they tend to go for it even though it costs a few bob more.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I have suggested that many times to Ian & Troy. That & built in WiFi & I would be putting in nothing else.:cool:

What, you use other panels :eek:

I though this was the only panel for extra features for you and your customer :rolleyes:

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

What, you use other panels :eek:

I though this was the only panel for extra features for you and your customer :rolleyes:

As Right siad fred said....

fred funk }{ wrote: »

When I show potential customers, who aren't on a tight budget, the x10 working in conjunction with the web access, they tend to go for it even though it costs a few bob more.

There is 2 markets out there the basic of the basic with the likes of Eircom etc. & then the Good Stuff like Siemens HKC & ATS.
Like for like & price for price Siemens has the edge here. And better priced wireless now....
(All we need is the MC:p)