Political allegiance of SU

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote:

You insinuate that this 'davis' typo was some long running bad joke I tried to propagate. It was a typo from yesterday for heaven's sake. You're deliberately distorting the truth to have a pop at me.

right i dealt with this bit here

you have been calling him derek davis for a while now..if its a simple mix up i apologise

again...if it was a simple typo..my bad...i was sure i saw it in other threads..got mixed up.

Did the SU president not endorse both Mary davis and Sean gallagher on his facebook?

sorry genuinely not getting your point here. Can you expand on this a bit?

You went to engage my question by repeating what we all already know and not adding any new content.

and that would be all i can give. Maybe you could have put what you already know in your OP so this could have been avoided. You asked what political allegiances have they..i gave the one we all know.
You asked does it interfere in their work, i gave an example of dereks work that went against his party allegiance and how that would seem to show how he has not let it interfere. I also left myself open to correction if someone had any evidence to the contary.
Was this not what you wanted, unless you were looking for info on the other sabbats in that case maybe you should edit the op to say its not Derek Daly

In your next post you call me a maggot which further confirms you have no genuine or legitimate interest in this thread but your sole aim is to antagonise me.

acting the maggot but lets not get into semantics

in fairness you had been just feeding me little push off one liners. i can understand you might have been the upset at the davis thing but since ive already apologised for this i dont think you can hold that against me...we've all made mistakes

So what exactly are you looking for if not what i just posted

freyners

god dang slow posting made half of that irrelevant anyways:rolleyes:

Sid_Justice

I'm not looking for everything from you I'm trying to ignore your posts but you keep pestering me.

We've established the SU president is a support of FF and FF politics and we can all appreciate that nobody can completely park their ideologies at the door when they go to work.

Moving on from that, I am interested in the political profile of the rest of the sabbatical team.

I am aware that generally speaking, this may not be my business but as they're elected representatives who represent the student body I'd like to know if they are influenced by outside political forces.

It just seems a bit suspicious that the president took time off during a busy week to go bothering people about voting in the presendial election while his colleagues had to stay at home and work.

You'd think that the SU pres would avoid taking personal holidays during term time and try to take them during the term holidays when he has considerably more free time.

Jester252

freyners wrote: »

sorry genuinely not getting your point here. Can you expand on this a bit?

something to do with Daly's party of choice
and from now on anything that sid says

Sid_Justice

Some serious paranoia, bad energy and nasty attitudes emanating from this forum.

These appear to be some of the facts:

Derek Daly is a long time FF supporter, for reasons unknown.
He campaigned on behalf of FF during parts of his (long) SU reign
He took time off from his SU duties to go knock on doors for FF
He made a public statement endorsing his support of Mary Davis (no relation) and Sean Gallagher.
He is anti SF and MMcG.

Is this information I am entitled to know?
Is this information that should be public?

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote:

He took time off from his SU duties to go knock on doors for FF

on this point alone...do you have any evidence to support that...did he miss any meetings, public engagements or miss any deadline by doing that?

If not is it just he used his time off to go knock on doors for FF, bearing in mind he, just like everyone else, is allowed to their time and doesnt work 24/7

shabouwcaw

As Baz said, the annual Derek is in FF thread hit early this year.... *yawn*

Derek Daly is a long time FF supporter, for reasons unknown.
He campaigned on behalf of FF during parts of his (long) SU reign
He took time off from his SU duties to go knock on doors for FF
He made a public statement endorsing his support of Mary Davis (no relation) and Sean Gallagher.
He is anti SF and MMcG.

"for reasons unknown"? I would imagine it is because he feels they represent the closest approximation to his chosen political ideology and made a free choice to join then, that's his perogative. Don't reply with some smart answer about FF's political ideology. Yes, there's corruption and problems in FF, but you can't tar everyone with that.

Secondly, you can campaign for people in your free time. As long as he doesnt campaign for FF while he's in work, that's fine.

Thirdly "he took time off" is the most important bit of that sentence. Again, he's allowed take time off, whether he spends that time canvassing for FF or murdering small animals, that's his choice.

He endorsed Mary Davis? AWFUL. Also, she's hardly FF. quite the opposite. Gallagher is FF-lite and I wouldnt vote for him personally, but meh, it's Dereks facebook, he can talk about voting for whoever he likes. Merely not having his privacy settings set to whatever you think is most appropriate doesnt mean it becomes an SU president facebook.

Lastly, people can be anti whatever political party they want. As long as it doesnt effect his dealings with students that are SF supporters who the hell cares. I'm not that fond of terrorists and murderers myself.


SO IN SUMMATION - No one cares.

/thread.

Delta Kilo

It seems like people are looking for any means to bash the hell out of Derek daly.

Firstly, I agree with freyners, sid its ironic that what you are accusing him of doing is exactly what you are actually doing, from what I can see is he is responding to your ill informed opinions of him and Derek.

Secondly, it's quite common that people in these positions have political aspirations and Derek is no acception to that. Many of todays politicians are former au presidents. Just because the party he is a member of isn't popular at present or is viewed negatively due to the actions of a small number of people who were in power for the last few years doesn't mean that there are no decent members still involved. Derek is entitled to do what he likes outside his role as au president

Im not one of his cronies, I have often been his critic, but I can tell you he does not mix his party with his role as a rep to ul students. There was a stage where personally he was pro fees, yet still campaigned against them because that was the view of ulsu. That is one example that comes to mind.

RE canvassing. When you enter the working world you will find you are entitled to this thing called annual leave. You have so many days and you can take them as you please. They are your days and what you do on them is your business.

His Facebook page is personal and that should be obvious to anyone with something between their ears. Its nobodys business what he puts on it but his own.

The attempted trolling in this thread is way too amateurish for my liking... disappointing in fact... movealong everyone.

Sid_Justice

Did you read my post?

This is my understanding:

SU officers are entitled to annual leave like any other worker.
It would be very reasonable for them to take elective annual leave at times when their jobs aren't busy - during the academic holidays.
Obviously in cases of emergency, bereavement that is different.
SU leave has to be signed off by a superior.
SU pres has no superior so he can take leave when ever he wants.

If the welfare officer wanted to go on a holiday in the middle of a busy su week would the su pres sign off on it? no he absolutely wouldn't. Therefore:

Why is the SU pres taking leave when he wouldn't let a colleague?

PROGRAM_IX

Oh look, more lame Fianna Fáil jokes. This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of things to bash Derek over. <rolleyes> If you wanted a debate you could have one; he's not shy of it in my experience. Otherwise you're clearly wasting everyone's time.

And I agree with Delta Kilo, if this is a troll thread, it is poor. Poor at best.

Sid_Justice

where are the ff jokes? seriously some people here have a serious problem with visual hallucinations. I don't care if it's FF or FG or Lab.

It's as if it's implied that calling someone a FF supporter is some kind of slur. That has never been stated, I don't know people seem to think that.

Sid_Justice

can someone give me a specific example of Daly-bashing?

It's actually mind boggling. People are getting annoyed about things that don't exist and then call it trolling. Seriously deluded people on this forum, must be something in the water.

PROGRAM_IX

Sid_Justice wrote: »

You've decided, probably for some exhibitionist attention seeking reason to make your voting in the presidential election public.

There's a bit of Daly-bashing. I wasn't talking about you with regard to the FF jokes. You haven't made any in this thread. Believe it or not you're not the only one posting.

Anyway, I think people are calling this a troll thread because there have been a couple of questionably-motivated threads recently that devolved into so much pointless arguing. You were involved in this arguing. I think you were even banned at one point. Understandably, the members are slow to accept a new thread that seems to follow in the same controversial vein.

Sid_Justice

That's an opinion which is very much correlated with reality.

If you take a photo on your mobile phone of your voting ballot and place it on facebook with settings set to public, it is obviously an attention seeking and exhibitionist act. Derek Daly wanted to make it clear to the world and sundry who he was voting for. I appreciate there was some history and context to it, that someone didn't believe he was voting davis over gallagher and he was, so to speak, putting his money where his mouth was.

Therefore this is not bashing, it's merely recording some events in this thread to give shape and structure to the daly caricature.

The unwritten question was " Is derek daly using his position as a SU president to influence UL students"

And the answer is a obvious and proven Yes he is - why else is he posting this stuff on his facebook where he is associated with hundreds of UL students.

I am not judging him for this, I am just stating facts and drawing opinions from them and making it clear when and how I am doing that.

People on this forum need to recognise that not every thread is a troll, not every question about Daly is bashing and understand that I, unlike 90% of the UL population it seems, will not be taken for a fool by the small group of people in this college with power.

There has been no denials, no rebuttals, or explanations from Daly on this other than to say he can use his facebook how he pleases.

Jester252

Sid_Justice wrote: »

The unwritten question was " Is derek daly using his position as a SU president to influence UL students"

And the answer is a obvious and proven Yes he is - why else is he posting this stuff on his facebook where he is associated with hundreds of UL students.

.

Black Helicopters much

Sid_Justice

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to troll me? There is nothing about my posts that warrant 'conspiracy theory much' slur. I did not quantify nor did I imply the magnitude of Daly's influence on the electorate. I merely stated facts:

daly promoted certain candidates via facebook
his facebook is viewed by 100s of UL students

ergo, daly's comment's influence electorate to some degree, possibly negligible, possibly significantly.

If you have absolutely nothing interesting, intelligent, mindful or relevant to say, please go troll another thread.

PROGRAM_IX

Sid_Justice wrote: »

If you take a photo on your mobile phone of your voting ballot and place it on facebook with settings set to public, it is obviously an attention seeking and exhibitionist act.

Sorry, what?
Even if I'm not a fan of them, Derek Daly, like anyone else, is allowed to have political views. Facebook is generally a place where personal things like political views are aired. Derek does not need our approval to set those views as being publicly available. Any attention he sought would have been wasted on people complaining about the politicians involved. I imagine that the photo in question has a long comment thread below it arguing about who is the lamest politician.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Therefore this is not bashing, it's merely recording some events in this thread to give shape and structure to the daly caricature.

At best it was sensationalist and aggressively phrased. I'd call it bashing, but whatever.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

The unwritten question was " Is derek daly using his position as a SU president to influence UL students"

I honestly didn't get that from your posts. Perhaps you should have written it. My answer would be no. You said to Jester252 above that he is influencing the electorate - I'd like to see some proof.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

And the answer is a obvious and proven Yes he is - why else is he posting this stuff on his facebook where he is associated with hundreds of UL students.

Derek is in a position to be friends with many UL students, and he's entitled to share what he likes with them. If he makes the shares public, that's entirely his own business. He's comfortable putting his political views out there and I can respect that. There might be more to it, but I doubt highly that he has plans to somehow snare students into some evil web of voting for Fianna Fáil...it would be highly unrealistic for a start.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I am not judging him for this, I am just stating facts and drawing opinions from them and making it clear when and how I am doing that.

Your tone says JUDGE in capital letters. You make Derek out to be some kind of creepy old man, foisting his political beliefs on a helpless student body. As far as I know, that student body is well able to speak up for itself when it doesn't like something, and as for blindly following a public figure...

Sid_Justice wrote: »

People on this forum need to recognise that not every thread is a troll, not every question about Daly is bashing and understand that I, unlike 90% of the UL population it seems, will not be taken for a fool by the small group of people in this college with power.

People on this forum do recognise that, at least from my on-off experience they do. But suspicion is going to be rife after the heated discussions you've been involved in recently. See above about blindly following a public figure.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

There has been no denials, no rebuttals, or explanations from Daly on this other than to say he can use his facebook how he pleases.

This (from Derek's Boards account) looks like a rebuttal to me. Because in fact, he can use his Facebook as he pleases. He specifies that it's not him as a Union representative, and I remember when I added him as a friend seeing that written clearly on his profile.

ninty9er wrote: »

I have personal opinions, which people may or may not be aware of, but they are never made as a Union representative on my personal Facebook profile. The profile happens to say that at the point where someone indicates their wish to add me as a friend.

That means that the SU President doesn't make those points. Derek Daly does. And outside his job, Derek Daly can do what he likes.

Sid_Justice

PROGRAM_IX wrote: »

=
Derek Daly is allowed to have political views.

This is a truism, please don't post this kind of thing while quoting my posts. It doesn't need to be stated.

Facebook is generally a place where personal things like political views are aired. Derek does not need our approval to set those views as being publicly available. Any attention he sought would have been wasted on people complaining about the politicians involved. I imagine that the photo in question has a long comment thread below it arguing about who is the lamest politician.

Thank you for sharing with us a random assumption you had. It was very beneficial to the discussion.

At best it was sensationalist and aggressively phrased. I'd call it bashing, but whatever

.
No it wasn't, stop projecting.

I honestly didn't get that from your posts. Perhaps you should have written it. My answer would be no. You said to Jester252 above that he is influencing the electorate - I'd like to see some proof.

The great irony being you offer random assumptions and then ask for proof when I present logical explanations. It goes without saying that someone that reads Daly's posts will be influenced by them. Will it effect their voting? That depends on a suite of unknown factors. Probably the most conservative answer will be a small minority who were on the fence about a topic may have been persuaded by Daly.

Derek is in a position to be friends with many UL students, and he's entitled to share what he likes with them.

Thanks for sharing another mindless truism with us.

Your tone says JUDGE in capital letters.

Hi. Look up the word infer in the dictionary.

You make Derek out to be some kind of creepy old man, foisting his political beliefs on a helpless student body. As far as I know, that student body is well able to speak up for itself when it doesn't like something, and as for blindly following a public figure...

No I didn't. Don't lie please.

I said, Daly has not responded other to say he can say what he wants on face book. Then you repeat this. Again, thanks for wasting my time.

CiaranMT

This is very sad at this stage. 3 pages of utter personal crusade waffle.

@Sid, what exactly is at issue here?

Your original points have been addressed.

You seem to have taken offence to any and every other poster here, regardless of their views.

Sid_Justice

I want a wider discussion on the topic presented in the original post. I've had about 2 genuine comments the rest have been the rabble rabble mob looking to leap to Daly's defence.

People, like yourself, seem obsessed with talking about how the topic is discussed not the topic itself.

Jester252

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to troll me? There is nothing about my posts that warrant 'conspiracy theory much' slur. I did not quantify nor did I imply the magnitude of Daly's influence on the electorate. I merely stated facts:

nope you made it clear in your post that Daly influences the student union with his political view without any support

The unwritten question was " Is derek daly using his position as a SU president to influence UL students"
And the answer is a obvious and proven Yes

Such claims like this are similar to a conspiracy theory

daly promoted certain candidates via facebook
his facebook is viewed by 100s of UL students
ergo, daly's comment's influence electorate to some degree, possibly negligible, possibly significantly.

I think/hope that the average 3rd level student does not base their view on the world on what some guy posts on facebook and if they do I don't what to live on this plant anymore

If you have absolutely nothing interesting, intelligent, mindful or relevant to say, please go troll another thread.

maybe you should that your own advice

Sid_Justice

I don't know about you but when I was deliberating over the two referenda and changes to our constitution I sought council with friends and relatives via facebook. Some of those individuals would be close friends, some mere acquaintances. However, both groups presented me with excellent food for thought.

In fact, when Daly made the erroneous claim that his facebook is only viewable to his friends I doubled checked and found many posts relevant to the election and the referenda. While I already cast my vote and therefore was not in a position to be influenced, I found Daly's comments quite persuasive on the matter of article 30. Now I didn't completely agree with him, but he made some relevant points I had not already considered.

Seeing as I am probably far more intelligent, knowledgeable, better read and more experienced than the majority of DAly's friends on facebook it wouldn't be too much of a leap to suggest others have also been influenced.

There have been a number of false accusations made against me in the short history of this thread, all I can say is I have no person grudge with this Daly fellow nor do I have an axe to grind. I just read the forum, read the papers, keep my ear to the ground and report on select stuff on this forum. This week it's all been about Daly's role in FF campaigning, I felt it was relevant to the student body.

If people want to return to talking about how many cans they drank before pissing themselves on the dance floor in the lodge by all means go right ahead.

Nockz

Elaborate joke character is elaborate.

Let's play;
So Derek Daly has views on Article 30 which his 'friends' on 'the tome of heads' can choose to take on board or ignore.

If that 'friend' chooses to ignore Daly's advice, he shall be known as Sid, because he was smart enough not to be seduced by Derek Davis' sexy, wordly wiles.

If that 'friend' was to consider what he had said, and so choose to agree with him, well may God have mercy upon his soul. For he is a mindless idiot, getting pissed in the lodge and being a mindless idiot.

What do I win?

PROGRAM_IX

That's a fair point. Perhaps this post will be less inflammatory than my others. :rolleyes:

Is your problem with the political allegiance of the SU generally, or with Derek's potential influence on the student body through Facebook? You've referred to both, but the latter seems to have got most of the discussion.

On that: you've said that Derek could theoretically influence a person or persons in one direction or the other with his post. That's close enough to saying any post of political opinion publicly, by anyone, on a social network could influence someone who reads it positively or negatively on that issue.

Would other people be held to such high standards as not being allowed to share political views with the public? I don't care whether people (whoever they are) post their political opinions or not. If I happen to be reading Facebook or whatever at the time, I may read what they think. And I agree that such posts can provide good food for thought. But why is Daly different? Or do you think every public figure should keep their political opinions to themselves?

Sid_Justice

PROGRAM_IX wrote: »

Is your problem with the political allegiance of the SU generally, or with Derek's potential influence on the student body through Facebook? You've referred to both, but the latter seems to have got most of the discussion.

I don't have a problem with any of the above. I have a problem with people saying things that are not true.

Would other people be held to such high standards as not being allowed to share political views with the public? I don't care whether people (whoever they are) post their political opinions or not

.

You need to reread the thread. Here is a summary:
Me: are SU sabbats party political?
Rabble: Everyone knows DD is FFer, but it doesnt matter
Me: How does it not matter?
Rabble: He parks it at the door?
Me: But he plastered his facebook campaigning for FF and certain Pres candidates?
Rabble: He's entitled do what he likes with his fb
Me: That's true, but the fact remains, within his role as Su pres he influences UL students politically
Rabble: Troll

If I happen to be reading Facebook or whatever at the time, I may read what they think. And I agree that such posts can provide good food for thought. But why is Daly different? Or do you think every public figure should keep their political opinions to themselves?

no, i never said that or anything like that. i just said what he says on his fb is propagated thru ul because he is president.

As a extreme example, Mary McAleese could set up a personal twitter which she states categorically is personal and not indicative of her irish presidency mandate or typical of irish people. Is it ok for her to lambaste ethnic minorities or ppl with disabilities etc. because it's personal?

Because it's personal are we to accept we shouldn't be worried as irish people because it's not official?

SarahBeep!

Why did you feel the need to start this thread when there's plenty of others?


Did you see evidence of someone's political views effecting their job?


Why are you focusing on one officer?

reunion

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I don't have a problem with any of the above. I have a problem with people saying things that are not true.


.

You need to reread the thread. Here is a summary:
Me: are SU sabbats party political?
Rabble: Everyone knows DD is FFer, but it doesnt matter
Me: How does it not matter?
Rabble: He parks it at the door?
Me: But he plastered his facebook campaigning for FF and certain Pres candidates?
Rabble: He's entitled do what he likes with his fb
Me: That's true, but the fact remains, within his role as Su pres he influences UL students politically
Rabble: Troll


no, i never said that or anything like that. i just said what he says on his fb is propagated thru ul because he is president.

I'm not friends with derek daly on facebook, nor do I see anything about his ballot paper on the SU website or his su president blog. you can't find somewhere on his page where he said FF candiates all the way the ULSU is behind you SU students vote FF.

If you wanted a proper discussion (and not derek daly bashing), what about someone on a club or society committee saying they are voting for someone and promoting it to people they ARE FRIENDS with on facebook?

You seem to think derek daly isn't allowed any opinions, next you will be saying because he eats at the stables he is promoting them to students when he should be eating at the shop.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

As a extreme example, Mary McAleese could set up a personal twitter which she states categorically is personal and not indicative of her irish presidency mandate or typical of irish people. Is it ok for her to lambaste ethnic minorities or ppl with disabilities etc. because it's personal?

Because it's personal are we to accept we shouldn't be worried as irish people because it's not official?

In that extreme example, you are an obvious troll.

Should we be worried about a personal email or text derek sends from his own personal email/phone?

My summary:

Some Joker: Troll
Rabble: common sense
SJ: Obvious troll
Rabble: not feeding
SJ: Why you no feed?!

If you really feel that strongly about it, start a thread in the debating section of boards and not the ul section. As you pointed out, it's a problem with politics and any public figure so clearly warrents a discussion from everyone and not just from the people in UL.

Otherwise continueing means either you can't comprehend what people are saying to you or you are a troll stubborn.

Suggestion:
Lock the thread and move a similar one to the debating section.

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote:

.

You need to reread the thread. Here is a summary:
Me: are SU sabbats party political?
Rabble: Everyone knows DD is FFer, but it doesnt matter
Me: How does it not matter?
Rabble: He parks it at the door?
Me: But he plastered his facebook campaigning for FF and certain Pres candidates?
Rabble: He's entitled do what he likes with his fb
Me: That's true, but the fact remains, within his role as Su pres he influences UL students politically
Rabble: Troll

wrong. Him using his role to influence students would him sending out an email/standing in front of the SU/handing out leaflets saying vote AB or C because I am your SU pres, or your SU president endorses AB or C

he sharing his personal viewpoint, to his friends on FB, probably unaware that people can read his posts if they arent connected to him because he has more open privacy settings than others. If you or anyone whos connected with him doesnt like it dont look/remove him from friends or block him

in fact he sets it out very clearly on his FB page if you would care to look it through instead ofpicking out one thing and running with it..ill quote it to you

Derek Daly wrote:

Is this a ULSU page? No...so all opinions expressed are personal...don't like it, don't look.

Sid_Justice

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Why did you feel the need to start this thread when there's plenty of others?


Did you see evidence of someone's political views effecting their job?


Why are you focusing on one officer?

Did you read the thread? Why are commenting if you obviously haven't?

Point 1 - other threads on SU party politics are a year old, the population of this college rolls over by 25% every year. It is impolite to drag up old threads. You should know this.

Point 2 - yes, derek daly was campaigning for a FF politician during the week. He was not doing his SU job.

Point 3 - I have not focused on anyone, the discussion has, if anyone else feels it appropriate to bring the political views of other officers to the discussion I would appreciate that, demonstrated by the fact I have encouraged people to do so.

Sid_Justice

reunion wrote: »

I'm not friends with derek daly on facebook,

neither am i.

If you wanted a proper discussion (and not derek daly bashing), what about someone on a club or society committee saying they are voting for someone and promoting it to people they ARE FRIENDS with on facebook?

Can you rephrase this in more comprehensible English.

You seem to think derek daly isn't allowed any opinions, next you will be saying because he eats at the stables he is promoting them to students when he should be eating at the shop.

Typical straw man, you need to look up logical fallacies, you're too ill informed to comment on this.

In that extreme example, you are an obvious troll.

Personal abuse will not be tolerated on this foru,.

Should we be worried about a personal email or text derek sends from his own personal email/phone?

Maybe if he's doing it during the times he is supposed to be working as a SU officer. Is his mobile paid for by the su? maybe I should request a break down of his phone calls on the freedom of information act to see how many calls go to ff head office.

If you really feel that strongly about it, start a thread in the debating section of boards and not the ul section. As you pointed out, it's a problem with politics and any public figure so clearly warrents a discussion from everyone and not just from the people in UL.

You really have no idea about what you're talking about. This thread is about UL officers and their political influences.

Otherwise continueing means either you can't comprehend what people are saying to you or you are a troll stubborn.

Serious cause of the pot calling the kettle black.

Suggestion:
Lock the thread and move a similar one to the debating section.

you're not a mod here.