NAMA

shanered

What do you think of around 180 developers that have properties in NAMA with two of these earning at least €200,000 a year to "manage" their portfolio for NAMA.
Disgrace, I seen in last nights oireachtas report and was fairly angered by this.
Would there not be a say of enriching maybe a team of 5x €40,000 property managers who didn't make the gamble and now having the taxpayers bail them out.
Much rather see my money going to 5 other families then to futher bankroll these developers and their high life.
:mad:

anymore

Apparently their track record as developers means they are the people best equipped with the skills and judgement to ensure the various projects they coundnt finish can now be finished ....ahem, I think,.....

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

shanered

Well off the top of my head, and this isn't brian storming over the problem for too long since its an amost instant reply but;
The could put out a tender for property managment, their is many people out there that have the know-how on how to manage properties.
The amount of gradutes of property managment and auctioneers, builders and other property and managment professionals who are out of work since the property crash, it would be great if a team of professionals or ex-builder/foremen where offered jobs.
Put the ads up for these jobs on these "NAMA managment teams" and have a team of people with all the nessessary skills hired to manage the properties.
I am sure the job will get done.
Plenty of gradutes of property management out there dying for some experiance get them on the job on an experiance only basis until they start being able to manage the whole thing.
This is just off the top of my head but I definitely think the pie should be taken away from these failed developers and our wider society benifit from this.
You say cost effectively....
If it wasn't worth doing the job these developers wouldn't be bothered doing it all.
Just definitely think there are others that have the skills and could do the job.

MagicMarker

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Pay them 70k instead of 200k?

shanered

MagicMarker wrote: »

Pay them 70k instead of 200k?

Good point there, our leader Enda Kenny has a salary of €200,000, think these guys after what they done they deserve a little less pay than the chap running the country, no?
I'm sure if we ran a brain storming session we would get many great ideas on how to run them more cost effectively.
And more importantly stop giving money to the people who got Ireland into the trouble it is already in.
Developers and bankers all being givin nice jobs and pay-offs to cushion the blow of losing millions.
Give the money to a few graduates coming from college with some property manager for expertise.
Give the main guy €80,000 with four other gratudates that are exceptionally good €30,000 jobs so that they don't have to leave the country.
Sure five people could do a better job than the one feckless developer.

Jaysoose

I disagree with these people being allowed to draw a wage from NAMA, their only skill during the boom was securing the funding to build white elephant developements. All the leg work was done by architects and contractors, these people managed to fill out the paperwork required and then spoof the relevant bank official to get it rubberstamped...hardly the greatest acheivement during the boom as the banks were lending to every tom dick and harry.

The clue as to what NAMA should be doing is in its name. The whole situation is a disgrace and these bull**** artist "developers" need to be removed from the process.

shanered

Too right, its an absolute disgrace.

Brian2850

I get that NAMA is a touchy subject to say the least but people need to understand that NAMA has to make decisions in the best interest of the taxpayer...

NAMA dont have to pay these guys wages... They can enforce and take the property from them if they like and appoint external managers. The reason they dont, it would cost many multiples of the salaries being paid...

People might sleep easier if NAMA did that but the cost of NAMA would balloon.... I dont believe that all developers are essential to the management of their portfolios and NAMA could outsource some of that but suggesting that NAMA could just throw out all developers and manage a €74 billion portfolio is extremely naive...

meglome

MagicMarker wrote: »

Pay them 70k instead of 200k?

The reality is if NAMA hire people on the open market to manage these portfolios it will cost far more. Look I don't think any of us are going to be delighted that 2 of the developers that helped us into this mess are getting €200k a year. However let's not cut off our noses here, it's €200k Vs millions if full markets rates were being paid to someone else.

jimmycrackcorm

shanered wrote: »

Too right, its an absolute disgrace.

No, it's an example of why you shouldn't mix business with pleasure (in this case the pleasure of punishing these guys).

shanered

True I understand what your saying, I just don't think that these guys are the supermen that can't be replaced for the same money malark.
I really think their are capable people out there that would jump at the prospect of the job. For the same price too! €200,000, sure you would find two capable people for €100,000 that could do the job of any of these failed developers.
Has their been any attempt at all to fill their positions?
I highly doubt it for some reason.
Set a price for the job and put it for tender that's what I say.
I just think it was easier to leave them in place, its just not progressive enough. I don't think we should instantly just throw out all of the developers but a cautious easing into what we would like to see, which is the properties being taken away from them. Full Stop. They've messed up enough take it right off them. There really is people who would take the jobs of running the portfolios, but as said the aim should be to wein the 180 deveolpers off them and set up new jobs for tender to the public. Its what the government promised. It would also create jobs, which is another thing that we would like to see, jobs being created out of the mess, rather then lining the very same guys who got us into the mess in the first place.

K-9

MagicMarker wrote: »

Pay them 70k instead of 200k?

In fairness, 70-100k was the average.

I don't know how they can justify 200k, unless it's the biggest developers, and their experience isn't necessarily a good thing!

nesf

shanered wrote: »

I really think their are capable people out there that would jump at the prospect of the job. For the same price too! €200,000, sure you would find two capable people for €100,000 that could do the job of any of these failed developers.

The problem is it's only really worth hiring someone if they've a track record of doing well managing multi-billion Euro portfolios. Such people won't work for 100K a year or anything remotely close to it.

nesf

K-9 wrote: »

In fairness, 70-100k was the average.

I don't know how they can justify 200k, unless it's the biggest developers, and their experience isn't necessarily a good thing!

The issue is if these developers refuse to work for less than 200K the other option is giving 1% of the portfolio per year to a professional management company. Rock, hard place.

K-9

nesf wrote: »

The issue is if these developers refuse to work for less than 200K the other option is giving 1% of the portfolio per year to a professional management company. Rock, hard place.

Guys that were probably on Millions before. Management Companies charge way more than 1% for Apartment blocks so it's hard to know what they'd charge for company running costs.

Also as somebody proposed, Estate Agents, Managements Companies are hardly ideal candidates for running multi million pound property portfolios. I'd say they aren't too far behind developers in public opinion!