Why did the media leave Michael D alone?

lugha

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Good luck to him. And thanks to Martin McGuinness for lamping that phoney stealth Fianna Failer Gallager in the debate the other evening and helping avert what would have been a disaster for our country.;);)

Don't count your chickens yet. The ambush on SG may well have come to late.

And don't lose the run of yourself! It would not have been a disaster. Even the least-well suited candidate for the job would be just a bit of an embarrassment had they got in. We'll soldier on regardless.

Nitochris

I've pointed out on another forum that MDH has argued that the best and least costly (in terms of human life) way for Israel to achieve security is for a permanent peace to be reached (I can't remember the page number but it was in "Causes for Concern"). It is in this context that we must judge his position on the Middle East.

fishy fishy

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

If it is more important, why did he give it up to come down here and run for President?

keeping sinn fein in the picture = remember they gained 9 more seats this year, while teh failers lost how many.....over 50 was it

mmg is breaking new ground bit by bit - they'll be running the country soon

Letallent

Its absolutely amazing to read post after post where people have decided to vote for Sinn fein and excuse their actions of the past despite how atrocious they were and in the same sentance comdemn a man who was at best guilty by association with FF. Sure he was only grassroots... wheras mcguinness was the commander of the derry brigade.

Simply amazing

Liam Byrne

Letallent wrote: »

Its absolutely amazing to read post after post where people have decided to vote for Sinn fein and excuse their actions of the past despite how atrocious they were and in the same sentance comdemn a man who was at best guilty by association with FF. Sure he was only grassroots... wheras mcguinness was the commander of the derry brigade.

Simply amazing

You had me agreeing until the "grassroots" claim

K-9

seamus wrote: »

Michael D is inoffensive.

Ask most people about him and they won't have any particularly strong opinions about him, negative or positive.

But ask them about Dana, McGuinness or Norris and you'll find that most people give you a very strong answer in one direction or the other.

So printing stories about them sells more papers than stories about Michael D.

Plus being Anti mostly Republican US foreign policy and pro Palestinian aren't that particularly controversial topics in Ireland.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

While I quite like and respect Michael D I have to say I've got no idea why he got such an easy ride. If its just because he wont sell papers then that's a pretty shocking indictment of our media and doesn't really explain why no one challenged him at all during the debates.

He did have questions that could have been thown at him, an example being his outspokenness on American issues including his widely known distaste for Republicanism (which in fairness most of us share here). However its quite likely a Republican will be the next president of the US and Micheal D has particularly been harping on about how a president needs to represent us abroad and garner the respect of other heads of state if we are to encourage their investment in Ireland. Is he going to come over all fawning and sweet on our behalf in the White House now? Will he be telling a Republican president that he didn't really mean his past outcries against his/her party affiliation. I think this is one of a few questions that would've been interesting to get an answer to.

I think people know he'll respect the role of President and not let personal views not get in the way. In fairness, the only one I'd worry about in that respect is Dana.

Many Irish opposed the Iraqi invasion anyway and sided with the French view and after the Israeli attack on the flotilla showed what the Israeli's can be like, it wouldn't be that an unpopular opinion.

Letallent

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You had me agreeing until the "grassroots" claim

point taken Liam but my main issue was that MMcG was a lot closer to the heart of operations which resulted in fatalaties in NI wheras SG never sat at a cabinet meeting or got to decide/shape governmet policy and it appears that he's paying a far higher price...

dabestman1

Letallent wrote: »

Its absolutely amazing to read post after post where people have decided to vote for Sinn fein and excuse their actions of the past despite how atrocious they were and in the same sentance comdemn a man who was at best guilty by association with FF. Sure he was only grassroots... wheras mcguinness was the commander of the derry brigade.

Simply amazing

Hello Sean, Hows the election going?

MrJoeSoap

fishy fishy wrote: »

keeping sinn fein in the picture = remember they gained 9 more seats this year, while teh failers lost how many.....over 50 was it

mmg is breaking new ground bit by bit - they'll be running the country soon

57-10 = 47... So who won the other 47 seats then?

fishy fishy wrote: »

mmg is breaking new ground bit by bit - they'll be running the country soon

Not too soon, I hope.

So what you are saying is that MMG ran for the presidency as a political stunt to improve Sinn Fein's standing in the government. That's not really treating the presidency, or the people who elected him in the north, with the respect that it or they deserve. The fact of the reality is that SF are as big now as they will probably ever be, and McGuinness' failure will be a good indication of that, even in as weak a field of candidates as this years election has.

K-9

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

57-10 = 47... So who won the other 47 seats then?



Not too soon, I hope.

So what you are saying is that MMG ran for the presidency as a political stunt to improve Sinn Fein's standing in the government. That's not really treating the presidency, or the people who elected him in the north, with the respect that it or they deserve. The fact of the reality is that SF are as big now as they will probably ever be, and McGuinness' failure will be a good indication of that, even in as weak a field of candidates as this years election has.

Measuring results by seats can be illusory. FF and Labour only had 2% between them but Labour nearly double the seats.

There's certain %'s that once you pass a threshold a big increase in seats results. 7/8% as SF found out, the PD's in the past, 19/20% mostly Labour's highest, 25/26% usually for FG and 36/37% and up for FF/FG with FF usually finding it harder to get extra seats.

Transfers play a big part, FF transfer toxic in the last election and SF always.

Min

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Can you supply the evidence showing every Palestinian man, woman and child firing rockets at Israeli settlement? If not, please refrain from making wild accusations?

Bluntly - pics or GTFO

They are the idiots that voted Hamas into power.

Then Michael D cries because the EU puts them on the list of proscribed organisations, it will be more than a pity if we have a terrorist sympathiser as president.

Min

Ellis Dee wrote: »

He's an all-round decent sort, a large-calibre intellectual and an honest man. I always vote Sinn Fein, but I gave Michael D. my number 2 and am sure it will help him get in.:D

Good luck to him. And thanks to Martin McGuinness for lamping that phoney stealth Fianna Failer Gallager in the debate the other evening and helping avert what would have been a disaster for our country.;);)

Now Martin can go back to his more important job in the North and know that Michael D. will do at worst a passable job in the Presidency.:)

Martin McGuinness was trying to help the Labour candidate, I suspect it is for some future arrangement between Sinn Fein and labour.

laoch na mona

i dont think he ever did anything controversial

Min

fishy fishy wrote: »

id say get ready to be embarrassed then and as for a "no" vote for MIchael D - did you get a different voting card than the rest of the country. LOL

I said I gave him no vote, I did not say I voted no for him.

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So you're against terrorists and those speaking up for them, and against abuse of children and those who are friends with them ?

Do I take it that you were therefore 100% consistent with your interpretation and avoided voting for either Norris or McGun ?

You are correct, I did not vote for them either.

Min

laoch na mona wrote: »

i dont think he ever did anything controversial

He had a man accused of sexually abusing his stepdaughter from the age of 11 over to visit him in Galway.
Daniel Ortega, but that is ok as he was against the Americans.

fishy fishy

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

57-10 = 47... So who won the other 47 seats then?



Not too soon, I hope.

So what you are saying is that MMG ran for the presidency as a political stunt to improve Sinn Fein's standing in the government. That's not really treating the presidency, or the people who elected him in the north, with the respect that it or they deserve. The fact of the reality is that SF are as big now as they will probably ever be, and McGuinness' failure will be a good indication of that, even in as weak a field of candidates as this years election has.

watch and learn, watch and learn :cool:

Liam Byrne

Min wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So you're against terrorists and those speaking up for them, and against abuse of children and those who are friends with them ?

Do I take it that you were therefore 100% consistent with your interpretation and avoided voting for either Norris or McGun ?

You are correct, I did not vote for them either.

Good to hear.

Now, can I ask - are you a member or supporter of any particular party or candidate ?

Min

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Good to hear.

Now, can I ask - are you a member or supporter of any particular party or candidate ?

No.

I thought the candidates available were not a good choice. My first preference went to a candidate who won't be elected but she was the only one who had the guts to go after Michael D Higgins unlike near all the media and that was Dana.

I voted for John McGuinness in the last election as I know him and he says what he thinks, like in this weeks local paper he said the state had enough powers without giving them more.
Not everyone in FF were yes men to Bertie or Cowen.

btw I gave my number 2 vote to Gallagher as I don't want MDH in the Aras.
It is a strange situation when having an association with FF is worse than having one with terrorism, however tenuous that support of terrorism is .

Jimoslimos

Min wrote: »

They are the idiots that voted Hamas into power.

Then Michael D cries because the EU puts them on the list of proscribed organisations, it will be more than a pity if we have a terrorist sympathiser as president.

Oh dear me. Are you suggesting that the Israelis treatment of them is justified because they had the cheek to hold democratic elections.

Might as well lump all the IRA's past transgressions at the feet of the ENTIRE nationalist community up north because SF are in power now. "Sorry Mr Hume, you can give back that Nobel prize now - you're no different than the rest of the murdering republicans"

Ozymandius2011

Because the media are either biased towards Left-Liberalism (Irish Times particularly e.g. opposed citizenship referendum , opposes deportations etc.), or regard maintainiung their political influence as requiring the preservation of the current party-system. That means not letting non-party members (even if they have a past closely involved with a party) get into senior positions in Irish govt.

Questions I would have liked asked to Michael

- Why did the govt you served in introduce the tax-amnesty? How does this tally with your claim to support equality and social justice?
- Did Labour Ministers know when sitting in govt with Michael Lowry that he has availed of the 1993 tax-amnesty?
- Given his record of in your face opposition to American foreign policy, how can a President Higgins not be a liability to attracting US investment in this country?

Also, a number of present and former RTE journalists were former members of Labour or the Workers Party. e.g.

- Charlie Bird (WP)
- Orla Guerin (LP)
- Alex White (LP)
- Mark Little (LP)
- Rodney Rice (WP)

kraggy

Lemlin wrote: »

What a saint. He only had his TD wage of 100k or so plus 68k in expenses to keep him warm at night.

Incidentally, how much is the one pension he is going to draw down worth?

So if you were in his position you'd refuse the money that you paid into your pension in the first place?

He could have taken payments from all 3 pension. He didn't.

You're talking absolute crap.

Victor

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What utter nonsense. He's an ex public representative and ex-University lecturer. He paid into those pensions and as a TD he did not take any pensions while in office. He also said he will only draw down one of his pensions giving the rest back. The man gave 28 years public service as a University lecturer to UCG, 25 years in the Dail, 9 years in the Seanad. Who else has given that much public service to Ireland?

So he has worked for 62 of his 70 years?

Or had two (or more) jobs and wasn't concentrating on either?

Ellis Dee

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

If it is more important, why did he give it up to come down here and run for President?

He didn't give it up. He only took leave of absence from it, knowing full well that he was unlikely to win, but achieving a lot of valuable things nevertheless. Now he can get back to consolidating the peace process, thereby working for the good of all of Ireland.:):):)

Nitochris

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Because the media are either biased towards Left-Liberalism (Irish Times particularly e.g. opposed citizenship referendum , opposes deportations etc.), or regard maintainiung their political influence as requiring the preservation of the current party-system. That means not letting non-party members (even if they have a past closely involved with a party) get into senior positions in Irish govt.

Questions I would have liked asked to Michael

- Why did the govt you served in introduce the tax-amnesty? How does this tally with your claim to support equality and social justice?
- Did Labour Ministers know when sitting in govt with Michael Lowry that he has availed of the 1993 tax-amnesty?
- Given his record of in your face opposition to American foreign policy, how can a President Higgins not be a liability to attracting US investment in this country?

The official line from the Government at the time was it was to give Tax evaders one last chance to declare and therefore their taxable income could be within reach of the state just like anyone who is tax compliant. The fact is Labour were unhappy with it but did not see it as a reason to leave the Government. It became one of an increasing number of issues which led to Labour crossing the Floor to form the Fine Gael led Government of 1994/1995-1997.
Would you also like to ask him why he was instrumental in creating a state asset which directly employs 80 people and supports 350 private sector jobs?

Lemlin

kraggy wrote: »

So if you were in his position you'd refuse the money that you paid into your pension in the first place?

He could have taken payments from all 3 pension. He didn't.

You're talking absolute crap.

I don't claim to act on the behalf of the poor and needy. I don't take home AT LEAST 100k a year plus 68k expenses. Who knows what other committees the man is on?

As I said, it's great to see yet another left wing representative practice what they preach.

And why would the man need a pension? He won't last the 14 years in the Dail anyway and we'll have all this cost of an election again.

MrJoeSoap

Lemlin wrote: »

And why would the man need a pension? He won't last the 14 years in the Dail anyway and we'll have all this cost of an election again.

What 14 years in the Dail? What are you on about?

You also missed my question above.

Sonic_exyouth

Min wrote: »

No.

I thought the candidates available were not a good choice. My first preference went to a candidate who won't be elected but she was the only one who had the guts to go after Michael D Higgins unlike near all the media and that was Dana.

I voted for John McGuinness in the last election as I know him and he says what he thinks, like in this weeks local paper he said the state had enough powers without giving them more.
Not everyone in FF were yes men to Bertie or Cowen.

btw I gave my number 2 vote to Gallagher as I don't want MDH in the Aras.
It is a strange situation when having an association with FF is worse than having one with terrorism, however tenuous that support of terrorism is .

Your vote was for Dana..

The woman who shielded an alleged sex offender?

Sonic_exyouth

Min wrote: »

He had a man accused of sexually abusing his stepdaughter from the age of 11 over to visit him in Galway.
Daniel Ortega, but that is ok as he was against the Americans.

He's also the democratically elected President of Nicaragua.

In a democracy all are innocent till proven otherwise.

Xenophile

"Let he who is without sin among us be first to cast a stone" The President elect did his best to practice this philosophy right though the campaign. We are all aware that nobody is perfect! Are we not?

anymore

Xenophile wrote: »

"Let he who is without sin among us be first to cast a stone" The President elect did his best to practice this philosophy right though the campaign. We are all aware that nobody is perfect! Are we not?

Higgins played the Boomerang principle.
You have to give him credit for his master stroke in bringing Norris back into play ! Genius ! And Norris says he gave second preference to Higgins - apparently Norris still doesnt understsnd that Higgind brought him in in order to give the media somthing to distract them from Higgins !

walrusgumble

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

He was strongly against taxi deregulation, calling it disastrous, supporting the previous uncompetitive situation instead of something that would increase supply and lower cost for people

now we have every tom dick n harry acting as a taxi driver, no guarantee that they are bone fide drivers and safe cars cause they treat it as easy money as oppose to a buisness. fares are still dear and there's times when its impossible to get one

Ozymandius2011

Did he know about the Eithne Fitzgerald letters offering access to Ruairi Quinn for £100 a plate during the last Rainbow govt? See page 253 of the preview of the book "Politics in the Republic of Ireland" here for more.

Both Ruairi Quinn and Eithne Fitzgerald were forced to apologise to the Dail over the affair. Not so squeaky clean as they make out!

Nitochris

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Did he know about the Eithne Fitzgerald letters offering access to Ruairi Quinn for £100 a plate during the last Rainbow govt? See page 253 of the preview of the book "Politics in the Republic of Ireland" here for more.

Both Ruairi Quinn and Eithne Fitzgerald were forced to apologise to the Dail over the affair. Not so squeaky clean as they make out!

Two points:
(1) Where does the book connect MDH to this? Your use of the term "Not so squeaky clean as they make out!" makes it clear that this is the inference you intended.
(2) It was infact raised during the campaign, it was raised by Vincent Browne in the aftermath of the Frontline debate it was put to Ivanna Bacik so people knew of it if they were engaged with the public sphere. It is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. It was the episode (25 October) with Glenna Lynch and the sketch had MDH and McGuinness being spoofed.

anymore

walrusgumble wrote: »

now we have every tom dick n harry acting as a taxi driver, no guarantee that they are bone fide drivers and safe cars cause they treat it as easy money as oppose to a buisness. fares are still dear and there's times when its impossible to get one

We always had every Tom Dick and Harry driving taxis particularily as so many plate owners had drivers working thier taxis rather than doing the driving themselves. I once drove for a a guy who had 13 taxis on the road and probably still does and he asked so few questions, I think I asked him if he wanted to know my home address !
NO every taxi driver whether they are an owner or driving for themselves has to go through the same routine with the Gardai when appyling for a driver's permit.