Survival situations in the post-feminist world

bronte

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't care as long as that nice boy Jack goes first.

LeixlipRed

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Sorry, I missed this. In my head the term 'post feminist' usefully denotes that we now live in a world where nobody with a brain disputes that men and women should have equal status in society. The argument has been won.

If you think that argument has been won you're severly deluded. Where has it been won? In Western society? Where the recession has led to an attack on working conditions that has forced women back into the home to care for children? Or a society where the majority of low paid jobs if you exclude students are done by women? Just thinking something is true doesn't make it be. You may believe than men and women are equal but the machinations of society haven't copped on to it yet.

Dudess

In the western world I would say women generally have it a lot better than they used to, and also, there are gender-based difficulties faced by men which aren't faced by women (and vice versa) as well as a sort of acceptance of men being belittled in various media, being sexually humiliated etc, but unfortunately, stuff like the latter is used by a vocal minority to attack women - constantly here for example.

Oh and the old "These days men have no rights and are second-class citizens", "the most repressed group today is white, western, middle-class, heterosexual males" stuff. Always good for a laugh.

irishh_bob

LeixlipRed wrote: »

If you think that argument has been won you're severly deluded. Where has it been won? In Western society? Where the recession has led to an attack on working conditions that has forced women back into the home to care for children? Or a society where the majority of low paid jobs if you exclude students are done by women? Just thinking something is true doesn't make it be. You may believe than men and women are equal but the machinations of society haven't copped on to it yet.

are you aware that men have been negativley effected by this rescession to a far higher degree than women

LeixlipRed

irishh_bob wrote: »

are you aware that men have been negativley effected by this rescession to a far higher degree than women

No, go on, tell me all about it...

The Sweeper

LeixlipRed wrote: »

No, go on, tell me all about it...

If women are unemployed they have to deal with a loss of confidence, financial hardship and depression.

If men are unemployed, they have to deal with a loss of confidence, financial hardship, depression and questions being raised over the size of their genitalia.

Nobody ever says 'Oh grow a womb'.

LeixlipRed

I think you meant to post that in AH. No one is denying that men have had a rough time out of the recession, young men in particular. But women are more in danger of reverting to pre-assigned roles, taking care of the children, etc,. Child care is so expensive, a women quits her job to look after her child or children and takes on a minimum wage job if she can for extra cash while her partner maintains a full time job and the cycle continues.

Ickle Magoo

I'd also add that unless you are making the rather ridiculous assumption that no woman has a relationship with any man or visa versa, the recession affecting one is going to directly affect on the other as well, in many cases...it's often a shared misery, let's not make it into a bloody competition. :rolleyes:

Jack B. Badd

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'd also add that unless you are making the rather ridiculous assumption that no woman has a relationship with any man or visa versa, the recession affecting one is going to directly affect on the other as well, in many cases...it's often a shared misery, let's not make it into a bloody competition. :rolleyes:

You'd be surprised at the number of people who have that attitude. I heard a guy in work rejoicing over the changes to insurances premiums when the companies were no longer able to discriminate on the basis of gender. This was despite the fact that his wife's insurance premium was increasing as a result & since she was a SAHM he was the one paying it. His premium didn't decrease as a result of course. I didn't disagree with his opinion on the matter but I found it very amusing that he didn't realise that he was one of the parties ultimately suffering by the ruling...

iguana

I'll add that a common complaint during the boom was that parents who wanted to stay at home minding their children could not afford to as getting a mortgage to buy a house required 2 incomes. Many people actually consider raising their children to be more important by far than working outside the home and are pleased that it's becoming an option again for more people.

irishh_bob

LeixlipRed wrote: »

No, go on, tell me all about it...

are your serious ? , the construction industry is the sector which has been hit hardest by far , this sector was male dominated to put it mildly

LeixlipRed

I was referring more to position in society. Obviously the recession has destroyed the lives of many men. But has it had a regressive effect on their standing in society?

iguana

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I was referring more to position in society. Obviously the recession has destroyed the lives of many men. But has it had a regressive effect on their standing in society?

I'm actually taking major issue with the idea that being a full time mother (or father) has a regressive effect on anybodies standing in society. If it does it's only because of narrow minded attitudes which see parenting as something of low standing.

Morag

oh look another thread which has become about men.

Miss Olenska

iguana wrote: »

Many people actually consider raising their children to be more important by far than working outside the home and are pleased that it's becoming an option again for more people.

Exactly! It's not necessarily a bad thing to want to stay at home for the first few years of your child's life until they start school.

Ickle Magoo

They key is choice tho, isn't it? I have heard sentiments such as women are taking a job off the market that an unemployed man trying to support his family could have when she should be home minding the kiddies - and I'm sure nobody wants to go back there, either?

irishh_bob

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I was referring more to position in society. Obviously the recession has destroyed the lives of many men. But has it had a regressive effect on their standing in society?

you dont think loosing your job effects your possition in society ?

Stheno

irishh_bob wrote: »

you dont think loosing your job effects your possition in society ?

Why would it be something more specific to one gender than another?

I know that last year when I lost my job I felt very adrift and unsettled, and getting a new job really made me feel better and I'm female.

MissFlitworth

Stheno wrote: »

Why would it be something more specific to one gender than another?

I know that last year when I lost my job I felt very adrift and unsettled, and getting a new job really made me feel better and I'm female.

+1 Sometimes people talk about unemployment like it's something that hits men much harder than women because their sense of self worth is so tied up in being a provider. I was made redundant at Christmas last year (bad Santa, that was *not* what I asked for) and I was a bottomless pit of feeling lost & sh1t about myself. Not being able to provide for yourself leaves anyone who's used to being independent feeling absolutely frickin awful.

irishh_bob

Stheno wrote: »

Why would it be something more specific to one gender than another?

I know that last year when I lost my job I felt very adrift and unsettled, and getting a new job really made me feel better and I'm female.

without knowing the context , you cannot appreciate my post , leixlip seemed hugely surprised that men were being effected more by this rescession than women , when i pointed to the fact that the construction sector was by far the biggest casualty and this sector is male dominated in the extreme , her reply was something about place in society , the reality is that a far greater percentage of men have joined the unemployment ranks than women in the past four years

rainbow kirby

irishh_bob wrote: »

without knowing the context , you cannot appreciate my post , leixlip seemed hugely surprised that men were being effected more by this rescession than women , when i pointed to the fact that the construction sector was by far the biggest casualty and this sector is male dominated in the extreme , her reply was something about place in society , the reality is that a far greater percentage of men have joined the unemployment ranks than women in the past four years

That's more of a discussion for tGC, tbh.

irishh_bob

rainbow kirby wrote: »

That's more of a discussion for tGC, tbh.

i wonder how often that line is used :rolleyes:

Ickle Magoo

irishh_bob, it's really very simple.

As the forum charter states loud and clear, this is a forum for discussion of issues from a female perspective.

If you want to throw a pity party in respect of, complain about, or discuss issues affecting men from your male perspective then use the appropriate forum. If you insist on using this forum to showcase men's issues from your male perspective and derail threads, you will lose your posting rights to this forum.

Please acquaint yourself with the forum charter before posting again

irishh_bob

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

irishh_bob, it's really very simple.

As the forum charter states loud and clear, this is a forum for discussion of issues from a female perspective.

If you want to throw a pity party in respect of, complain about, or discuss issues affecting men from your male perspective then use the appropriate forum. If you insist on using this forum to showcase men's issues from your male perspective and derail threads, you will lose your posting rights to this forum.

Please acquaint yourself with the forum charter before posting again

,


fine but i thought it was appropriate to inform leixlip of the gender breakdown in terms of how the rescession has effected unemployment , afterall , she did seem to be unaware of theese facts

over and out

Dolbert

Out of curiousity, why have you assumed that LeixlipRed is female?

rainbow kirby

irishh_bob wrote: »

,


fine but i thought it was appropriate to inform leixlip of the gender breakdown in terms of how the rescession has effected unemployment , afterall , she did seem to be unaware of theese facts

over and out

Clearly didn't read the charter well enough. If you have an issue with a moderator decision please take it to PMs, do not derail the thread further.

Charter wrote:

10) Argue with a moderator instruction in thread. This is considered derailing a thread. If you have an issue with a moderator instruction or warning, please pm one or more of the other moderators. Please be advised that moderators will discuss this amongst themselves if it is in relation to the moderating of the forum. This makes sure nothing untoward is happening from either side.