re-apply every year

homerhop

Has anyone else in kildare who got the S on their license have to apply every year for their mod? Is it not a 3 year thing the same as your license? 2 friends of mine are in that situation and no one seems 100% sure on if what is being asked is a requirement or just the local superduper being difficult.

bazza888

its the super in kildare being difficult i got letters saying that a mods basicly a firearm and he wants you to reapply every year in writing to him for it,or they may come and take it,it wont cost you any money.all my licenses have the s which means its granted for 3years but he still wants a letter every year

Cass

I have posted this before, but it got "lost" in a thread so again the Official position on the "S" on your license is:

• You must have an "S" on your license to be covered to own, possess, and use one.
• A letter from your Super no longer "cuts" it unless the "S" is also on your license.
• If the "S" is not on your license then you are not on PULSE as having permission.
• While the letter from your Super "would" stand as authorisation the reason behind the "S" on the license was that ANY Garda can see immediately that you are covered to have one.
• A letter from the Super with no "S" on your license means only the Gardai in your local station would know you have permission from the Super, but it still means you are not registered on PULSE as having authorisation.
• The "S" on your license is your authorisation, and runs for the lifetime of the license.

To me it seems some Supers are issuing letters rather than granting on PULSE the authorisation for the mods, so that you must apply to them every year for the letter meaning they have stricter control of the amount and frequency. If they all put the authorisation as the "S" on your license rather than a letter it means if they wanted to reduce the amount of mods each year they would have to find a valid reason to revoke the authorisation rather than refuse to re-issue the letter, and it means removing the authoorisation from PULSE rather than simply refusing to issue you with a new letter of authorisation.


I checked all this out over a year ago, and was told the above is the proper method. So basically:

• You need the "S"
• A letter while legally "okay", is not wanted and counteracts the objective of having the "S" printed on a license.

This is why i have always told people with a letter to request a re-issuing of thier license with the "S" on it.

bazz888 wrote:

that a mods basicly a firearm and he wants you to reapply every year in writing to him for it

It is a firearm. However the re-application each year thing is not in keeping with the idea of the new 3 year licenses.

homerhop

Thats what I am saying Ez,they have the "S" on the license but they also got a letter from the super saying that he wants them to re apply every year for their mod.

Cass

If they have the "S" then the letter is moot.

homerhop

what way will that go then when the license expires and they go to reapply, can he refuse a license on the grounds that they did not conform to his requests?
Bear in mind that this is a super that is refusing to change a .22 swift down to a .223 and says it is a new application

LB6

Any point in asking the NARGC/KRGC to clarify this?

A mod is firearm in it's own right. Firearms are licenced for 3 yrs. This is the law. A Super should be asked why he requires yearly renewals. How would the Super explain/allocate the funds, €80 for each mod, that comes into his barracks?

Just another way of robbing the legal shooter and trying to get them to give up. Why not go after the bad guys?

Cass

The problem here is the Super (obvious i know, but bear with me). The Super is creating this problem by his/her insistance that a yearly renewal be applied for, and not the 3 year "S" on the license.

As the person deemed authorised to issue the license the Super holds the "keys" to you getting the license. By issuing a letter he has deemed you fit to have one. By insisting on the letter and not the "S" on a license he is not following SOP as dictated by the FPU.

It is redundant making you re-apply yearly when your have the "S". If you have it you are authorised. End of. The letter, even to your Super, is silly, and moot as your "S" still gives you authorisation. Even if he revoked the letter he would have to revoke the authorisation through PULSE and have a new license issued to you without the "S".

As said the reason he wouldn't is it requires a reason for him to revoke it. A letter, and everything kept "in house" means he doesn't have to go through this process.

Can he refuse your renewal/re-application at the expiry of your license? - Yes. He is within his remit to do so. However you could always appeal the decision, and the fact you have prior authorisation would be hard to discredit unless there was evidence of abuse, recklessness, etc.

The problem here is the problem we have everywhere. The Supers are not abiding by either the law, in it's spirit at least, or the guidelines or even the FPU that is there to guide, and advise them. They are creating these problems where none SHOULD exist.

bazza888

hes not making you pay,its not an official application,he wants a letter saying i bazza888 aplly to retain my .22 and 223 mod,with a reason why.he wont issue some people mods for deer rifles either.

Cass

bazza888 wrote: »

hes not making you pay,

If the full proper channels were to be followed then there are only two reasons for you not having to pay.

1. Its being put through as an amendment so no fee attached.
2. There is no "S" on your license, its not registered on PULSE, therefore does not stand as authorised.

its not an official application,he wants a letter saying i bazza888 aplly to retain my .22 and 223 mod,with a reason.

If it is not on an FCA1 then its not an application. The only legally recognised form for applying for a firearm/mod is the FCA1.

If you are writing out a "secondary school essay" application this is for your Super ONLY, and the only record of your authorisation/application will remain at station level.

he wont issue some people mods for deer rifles either

If they don't have the "S" or a letter, and he refuses to grant them at all, then there is nothing, bar an appeal through the court, to get them. He is legally within his rights to refuse an application for a mod.

LB6

ok - I missed that part it's a letter - think fek it - he needs something to read - do it and be done with him. Long as it doesn't cost and he can't revoke your S without good reason. Sod it.

You said it there "i bazza888 apply to retain my .22 and 223 mod,with a reason why" you should/may still have a copy of your original application - just copy the letter from that - change the date"

He's not worth losing sleep over. Just another penpusher/deskjockey. Sorry to all cops out there - but some just take the biscuit!

bazza888

i have the s on all licenses,a letter came saying the super wants you to write a letter to him to reapply every year,i rang up raging saying am i going to be expected to pay 8oe everyyear even though im granted the mods for 3years,the female garda said no dont worry thats just his thing,he sets down for moderators its just a note to say you have it and want to keep it but if you dont do that they may come and take the mods

bazza888

ill find the letter over the weekend and post it up with my info blanked out,im going foxing now with my 2firearms at once (the mod and my rifle)!

LB6

ya sure ya can carry them both at the same time?

Cass

LB6 wrote: »

................- think fek it - he needs something to read - do it and be done with him...............!

Seriously. So next time a Super demands something not necessary and you refuse s/he will deny your request. Also how do you explain pandering to his needs previously.

We all know that there are to sets of laws. One that is in black and white, and the other that is applied at the authorising personel's decretion.

I could spout of all the legal crap as it stands, but at the end a Super need only say "I'm not doin that, see you in court if you want to fight it" so we end up folding and doing as they demand to get what we want. The thing is if we continue with this the Acts, SI's etc will be null and void, and we will be literally at the mercy of each Super and their wants for their district.

I'm not saying take to the streets or any of that crap, and God knows if you were to ring the FPU, or some other body and fight the issue that even if you win now, you loose in the long run. Its unfair, harsh, and a crap system so it all depends on how far you wish to push the issue.

..............no dont worry thats just his thing,he sets down for moderators its just a note to say you have it and want to keep it but if you dont do that they may come and take the mods

I would love to say what i think that is, but won;t for fear of a defamation charge. So i'll put it poliely, do as i say or else loose it. Thats not authorisation on th merits of an application. Also if you have the "S" i'd love to see him try and revoke the license to remove the "S", and the reason he gives for revoking it. You cannot loose your firearm/mod simply because he feels like it, There has to be a reason.

To be brutally honest i would contact the FPU. They read Boards i'm sure and have probably gotten simialr calls in the past. I would explain to them that you are authorisaed with the "S" on your license, but you are now being TOLD by your Super that if you do not write in on a yearly basis, requesting to be allowed keep the mod that you have been threatened with having it revoked. If they ask about your use of the word threatened, i would elaborate that you have been told that if you do not do as demanded they (local station) have told you they will reovke the license To me that is a threat to comply or risk loosing it.

See what they say. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. Its not as easy as saying it i know, but at some stage you need to say thats enough.

LB6

Ezridax wrote: »

Seriously. So next time a Super demands something not necessary and you refuse s/he will deny your request. Also how do you explain pandering to his needs previously.

The thing is if we continue with this the Acts, SI's etc will be null and void, and we will be literally at the mercy of each Super and their wants for their district.

To be brutally honest i would contact the FPU. They read Boards i'm sure and have probably gotten simialr calls in the past. I would explain to them that you are authorisaed with the "S" on your license, but you are now being TOLD by your Super that if you do not write in on a yearly basis, requesting to be allowed keep the mod that you have been threatened with having it revoked. If they ask about your use of the word threatened, i would elaborate that you have been told that if you do not do as demanded they (local station) have told you they will reovke the license To me that is a threat to comply or risk loosing it.

See what they say. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. Its not as easy as saying it i know, but at some stage you need to say thats enough.

Won't ever be easy - as far as the law is concerned, they are guidelines only and the final say will always be at the Super's door.

As for pandering to previous requests - I'm sure you would be able to descipher the difference between writing a short letter to keep an ejit happy and jumping through hoops to pander to them up there on their high horse. Whatever the hell you do, if it's a phone call, a visit or whatever, get a diary and write down names, dates, times and location.

PS. Don't whatever you do be taken for a fool - know your rights and I agree with Ez - ring the FPU!

Cass

LB6 wrote: »

............ I'm sure you would be able to descipher the difference between writing a short letter to keep an ejit happy and jumping through hoops to pander to them up there on their high horse.........

Problem there is they are the same thing. Granted on a "small" scale. Write a letter today, two grandparents, with their parets the next time. :rolleyes:

Its a slippery slope. Plus the need for a letter ASWELL as the "S" is not in the guidelines or the law. So thats my reason for not letting it slide.

E. Fudd

I applied for a mod 3 weeks ago. I live in Kill, Co. Kildare. 3 weeks to the day a new license came in the door with the magic "s" on it. No mention of reapplying every year.

The unusual thing is that the license came from Clondalkin (Dublin) Garda station. I did used to live in Dublin but had my licenses changed to my new address in Kildare. Any ideas?

Cass

Ideas on what? Sorry its late and i'm missing the point.

E. Fudd

Ezridax wrote: »

Ideas on what? Sorry its late and i'm missing the point.

Sorry Ez.
Why would I have been issued my new license from a Dublin station when I'm living in Kildare?

Cass

Was clondalkin your issuing station when you got the new three year licenses?
Where did you submit your sub application? (Kildare i presume)

E. Fudd

Ezridax wrote: »

Was clondalkin your issuing station when you got the new three year licenses?
Where did you submit your sub application? (Kildare i presume)

Yeah Clondalkin was my issuing station when I first applied and got my three year licenses.

I submitted my sub application to my local station in Kildare.

Cass

This is a pure guess, but it seems as though Kildare contacted Clondalkin for reference, etc, and Clondalkin simply issued the sub. Kildare will most likely issue from now on or when the re-applications are due next year?

Its an odd one though.