Joining CIAT - POP record comments.

VickerDeePlank

Hi,
Im looking into joining the CIAT in the near future and in time I hope to progress to TCIAT status then MCIAT status.
I would love to hear your opinions and comments on how you handled your POP records. My experience working as an architectural technician is limited to just under 5 years and im slightly worried progression through the ranks may be difficult as a result.
Any and all opinions and advice welcome.
Thanks in advance.

No6

5 years experience should be loads for doind the pop record especially the TCIAT on. A lot of the stuff in the TCIAT pop is duplicated on the MCIAT pop but it is fleshed out a bit more, definately go for it !!!

bikermartin

I am a graduate of Hons degree architectural technology and currently an ACIAT member. i have indicated on application form for CIAT that i intend progressing to MCIAT in the future..... this is the problem. i have worked in construction for over 10 yrs before college , but not in a design releated job. I am currently on an internship with a profile member of CIAT. is there anything i can do to progress my membership, even to TCIAT membership. I believe i can complete the Knowledge sections of the pop records at the moment without office experience , but not 100 % sure ? Can case studys be used to complete the performance sections of the records ?

No6

bikermartin wrote: »

I am a graduate of Hons degree architectural technology and currently an ACIAT member. i have indicated on application form for CIAT that i intend progressing to MCIAT in the future..... this is the problem. i have worked in construction for over 10 yrs before college , but not in a design releated job. I am currently on an internship with a profile member of CIAT. is there anything i can do to progress my membership, even to TCIAT membership. I believe i can complete the Knowledge sections of the pop records at the moment without office experience , but not 100 % sure ? Can case studys be used to complete the performance sections of the records ?

You can use case studies for some of the performance modules but you would want some experience to be able to complete the POP record. One or two small jobs can give you the experience and allow you complete a lot of the modules. Start filling in you POP record now it costs you nothing to start and when you have gone over it a few times you will have a better idea of what you need to do the be able to complete it. Best of Luck!!

VickerDeePlank

No6 wrote: »

You can use case studies for some of the performance modules but you would want some experience to be able to complete the POP record. One or two small jobs can give you the experience and allow you complete a lot of the modules. Start filling in you POP record now it costs you nothing to start and when you have gone over it a few times you will have a better idea of what you need to do the be able to complete it. Best of Luck!!

Thanks No6. Good advice. That eases some of my concerns.
How are the supports for helping people to complete POP's in Ireland? I guess once a member you areput in contact with groups to help?

Also can some one tell me when its appropriate to call yourself a 'technologist' instead of technician. I was previously told by a colleague that if you held an Hons Deg in Arch Technology you may refer to yourself as a technologist. Now i believe you must hold TCIAT at least status to call yourself such?

Supertech

The old technican / technologist chestnut Basically you can call yourself whatever you wish as long as you don't use the Chartered Technologist designation which is reserved for those who have completed their progression to MCIAT level. Neither title is protected, and both are permitted under the Building Control Act.

No6

VickerDeePlank wrote: »

Thanks No6. Good advice. That eases some of my concerns.
How are the supports for helping people to complete POP's in Ireland? I guess once a member you areput in contact with groups to help?

Also can some one tell me when its appropriate to call yourself a 'technologist' instead of technician. I was previously told by a colleague that if you held an Hons Deg in Arch Technology you may refer to yourself as a technologist. Now i believe you must hold TCIAT at least status to call yourself such?

I dont think you are put in contact with groups, I know a few people who are doing the pops at the same time have formed their own support groups, CIAT can put you in touch with supervisors and I believe mentors if you need them.

As supertech says neither title is protected so you can call yourself what you like, I find the accedemic labeling amusing tbh, give me a technician with a level 7 degree and 10 years experiece over a technologist with a level 8 honours degree and feck all else any day!! I was once an RIAI technician member but someone decided to have a honours course and I becam a technologist over night, a bit like a birthday I still felt the same!!:D

bikermartin

I will send the membership office of CIAT an e mail to find out which sections can be completed using case studies for the performance sections . Am i right in presuming a supervisor will go through all the sections as a whole unit, before them being submitted to CIAT head office for assessment of all the sections at once ?

At what stage do i need a supervisor. Could i finish all the underpinning knowledge sections together before starting on the performance sections, i dont know if our industry is ever going to recover enough to enanable new graduates to progress their careers ?:(

No6

bikermartin wrote: »

I will send the membership office of CIAT an e mail to find out which sections can be completed using case studies for the performance sections . Am i right in presuming a supervisor will go through all the sections as a whole unit, before them being submitted to CIAT head office for assessment of all the sections at once ?

At what stage do i need a supervisor. Could i finish all the underpinning knowledge sections together before starting on the performance sections, i dont know if our industry is ever going to recover enough to enanable new graduates to progress their careers ?:(

You basicly need a supervisor from the start, if they know you and your work well (ie you work with them or for them!!) you probably will not have to show them all your performance evidence just the written performance statement, they will go thorugh all the sections, you can do them in any order you like and pass them on to your supervisor in dribs and drabs or as one lump when you have the finished!!

Its difficult times for old graduates as well!!:eek: The industry is not going to pick up in the next 5 years at least in my opinion!!. It could take a while for you to finish your pop record but view every job you work on now as a possible canditate for some part of your POP record!!

bikermartin

I presume supervisor and mentor are same thing. one thing i havent been able to find out is, what would the likely fees to a supervisor be ? would it be a fixed rate for completiting the full TCIAT/MCIAT package or is it lilely to be a rate per hour. ? not looking for the rate charged just an indication of what is the norm. ? Plus trying to find someone near who is offering the service would be good ? wexford/wicklow/carlow area

No6

bikermartin wrote: »

I presume supervisor and mentor are same thing. one thing i havent been able to find out is, what would the likely fees to a supervisor be ? would it be a fixed rate for completiting the full TCIAT/MCIAT package or is it lilely to be a rate per hour. ? not looking for the rate charged just an indication of what is the norm. ? Plus trying to find someone near who is offering the service would be good ? wexford/wicklow/carlow area

A supervisor and mentor are not necessarily the same thing, they can be but not necessarily. Your supervisor has to sign off on your pop record modules and mentor if you need one will help you. Normally you should try to get someone you know who is suitably professionally qualified, MCIAT, MRIAI, MIEI, RICS or similar to be your supervisor. It does help if you are working for or with the person as if they are familiar with your work they will not want to see every scrap of evidence. If you cannot find a supervisor CIAT in London do have a list of members who will do it for you, I have no idea what they will charge but I assume they will. If you get someone you know its between yourselves what if anything you pay. Talk to James in London he can give you quite a lot of advice on supervisors and mentors and can give you a few names if you need them to.

VickerDeePlank

Thanks guys. Very informative!

ArchTech86

Has anybody any experience of setting up a POP record and becoming a member of CIAT?

If so, could you share your experiences, as I am thinking about undertaking the task myself.

Thanks.

P.S., I'm thinking about going for the TCIAT, not MCIAT. Also, is there any merit to becoming an ACIAT?

muffler

ArchTech86 wrote: »

Has anybody any experience of setting up a POP record and becoming a member of CIAT?

If so, could you share your experiences, as I am thinking about undertaking the task myself.

Thanks.

P.S., I'm thinking about going for the TCIAT, not MCIAT. Also, is there any merit to becoming an ACIAT?

Above post moved to existing thread on same topic

archtech

ArchTech86 wrote: »

Has anybody any experience of setting up a POP record and becoming a member of CIAT?

If so, could you share your experiences, as I am thinking about undertaking the task myself.

Thanks.

P.S., I'm thinking about going for the TCIAT, not MCIAT. Also, is there any merit to becoming an ACIAT?

There's a good few members whom have, myself included joined CIAT. Most have or are in the process of becoming MCIAT. Mush the same process to achieve TCIAT, except less information required and there's no interview. TCIAT gains you dome exemptions towards MCIAT, i you should decide to progress afterwards.

I'm not too familiar with the TCIAT POP record. If you've been involved in a project from start to finish, need only be a domestic extension, you should be well able to complete your POP record.

ArchTech86

I intend to sit down this weekend and have a good leaf through the whole thing on the CIAT website.

Quick question,

Do I have to have been involved in the same project from start to finish, or can I have worked on the different stages of a project, but not necessarily all on the same job?

How long has it taken most people to put their POP record together?

sydthebeat

you can equate different sections of the pop record to different projects.
IMHO thats a better way to do it as a lot of information may overlap between sections otherwise.

you can even create a fictional project if you feel theres an aspect of the record that you dont hae direct experience with, but are knowledgeable enough to carry out. You simply describe what you would do in the case.

it will become clearer when you see the different sections of the booklet.

ArchTech86

sydthebeat wrote: »

you can even create a fictional project if you feel theres an aspect of the record that you dont hae direct experience with, but are knowledgeable enough to carry out. You simply describe what you would do in the case.

That's what I like to hear

Really though, I'm assuming this is 'illegal', but that it does happen and people do get away with it, or is it actually not breaking any rules?

archtech

ArchTech86 wrote: »

That's what I like to hear

Really though, I'm assuming this is 'illegal', but that it does happen and people do get away with it, or is it actually not breaking any rules?

You can use case studies to demonstrate competences for the majority of the POP Record. It can be far easier however to work with a real project. You would need to have your case study done before submitting your POP Record. I a real project you don't have to package the evidence until requested to do so, you only have to know where it is and that you and your supervisor believe its sufficient to demonstrate what's required.

IN completing my POP Record, ( I used 4 different projects in total to cover all the units, there was an over lap in evidence.

ArchTech86

Thank you very much for your reply archtech. Could you provide an estimate of how long you reckon it took you to prepare the record? Are we talking 1 month, 6 months, more, less?

archtech

It basically depends on how much evidence you have as it is and how much time you can afford to complete the POP Record. I know of chartered members whom were chartered within six months of joining and others whom took much years. For myself I was at it on and off for about 3 years, until I got stuck into it and did a bit every night until I was finished.

Mellor

ArchTech86 wrote: »

That's what I like to hear

Really though, I'm assuming this is 'illegal', but that it does happen and people do get away with it, or is it actually not breaking any rules?

Perfectly legal. But its only allowed for some sections.

ArchTech86 wrote: »

Thank you very much for your reply archtech. Could you provide an estimate of how long you reckon it took you to prepare the record? Are we talking 1 month, 6 months, more, less?

For somebody years of experience, they could prob did out enough evidence for all sections, and do the write ups over a few months if they spend the time on it.

But, going by your user name, you prob have a few years of exp only. so you'll probably have to fill out each section as it comes along. i've been doign this and tbh, there's been a few projects where I didn't have time and I regret not filing evidence at the time.

Also, you will prob have to go for TCIAT membership and then MCIAT membership. But luckily a lot of the info is related to both.

ArchTech86

Mellor wrote: »

But, going by your user name, you prob have a few years of exp only. so you'll probably have to fill out each section as it comes along. i've been doign this and tbh, there's been a few projects where I didn't have time and I regret not filing evidence at the time.

Correct, as my user name does suggest, I'm 25 years old. I have 2 years of office experience. I'm now looking to 'upskill', though I don't think that's the appropriate word in this context, by becoming a member of CIAT.

Mellor wrote: »

Also, you will prob have to go for TCIAT membership and then MCIAT membership. But luckily a lot of the info is related to both.

TCIAT is my envisioned option at the moment. Like I said in a previous post somewhere, I've got to sit down this weekend and just trawl through the CIAT website and come to some decisions then.

bikermartin

Mellor wrote: »

Perfectly legal. But its only allowed for some sections.


Do you know what sections of MCIAT or TCIAT can be done by case studies ?

ArchTech86

Just found out that I've got to be ACIAT before I can submit a POP record for TCIAT, resulting in 2 fees that would need to be paid to get assessed.

Maybe I'm naive in thinking that one fee would have been enough, but 2 payments of €187 seems a bit excessive to me! I attended a CIAT approved college, WIT, so I don't understand why they insist on associate membership before submitting for either TCIAT or MCIAT...

Like most people at the moment i'd imagine, I can't justify spending €384 on it at this moment in time.

Mellor

bikermartin wrote: »

Do you know what sections of MCIAT or TCIAT can be done by case studies ?

AFAIK, it is listed in the POP record notes.

ArchTech86 wrote: »

Just found out that I've got to be ACIAT before I can submit a POP record for TCIAT, resulting in 2 fees that would need to be paid to get assessed.

Maybe I'm naive in thinking that one fee would have been enough, but 2 payments of €187 seems a bit excessive to me! I attended a CIAT approved college, WIT, so I don't understand why they insist on associate membership before submitting for either TCIAT or MCIAT...

Like most people at the moment i'd imagine, I can't justify spending €384 on it at this moment in time.

I think you need to read it again. €187 is the yearly membership. It's less after november as there only half a year left and its less if you are unemployed, 59 I think.
Firstly of all you join as a ACIAT member, then start on your pop record and when you finish you pay €129 to get assessed. You won't be finished for a year or so, so you don't pay the two fees at the same time.

No6

Check out the facebook page there is often membership discounts available there. Its unlikely as mellor says that you will pay both in the same year unless you put your POP record together very fast, which most of us in Ireland don't manage to do, it usually takes between one and three years for us to get around to it!!:D

ArchTech86

Thanks guys, must look at it again. Somehow got a warped version of the truth!

shane6977

I know this is an old thread but I thought I would share this info from James Banks, Membership Director of CIAT for anyone reading through it with a view to joining the institute:

JOIN CIAT for a Reduced Fee:

Given the current circumstance in Ireland, CIAT is offering a special promotional offer for new members joining or old members re-joining through “LinkedIn” and we are pleased to offer you a waived application fee and a 50% reduction in your first year subscription. You can forward this offer to colleagues and anyone can join using the reduced offer.

This is a maximum saving of €120. The fees applicable are €51 per Associate member or €42 per profile candidate.

This offer is valid until Wednesday 2 January 2013 and is subject to the necessary membership registration approvals.

For further information about joining CIAT, please visit www.ciat.org.uk and download the membership application pack or alternatively email membership@ciat.org.uk

When applying please submit your application as a hard copy and quote reference LINKROI to ensure you receive your reduced rate.

To gain a further insight into the qualifying processes and the type of work our members undertake, visit our YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/ciatechnologist

If you have any queries about membership or routes to attaining Technician (TCIAT) or Chartered (MCIAT) membership, please do not hesitate to membership@ciat.org.uk