Books for children about cruelty against animals

Lawrence1895

I was just wondering, if there is any book, which deals with the issue of cruelty against animals?

I noticed recently, that my stepson is a bit rough with the rabbits, like lifting them inappropriately, or even trowing them.

He should know by now, that he hurts the rabbits, but all efforts so far to talk to him about it were not really successful, so I thought of getting a book for him, which shows him in a gentle way, how much he hurts the animals with his behavior.

Thanking you:)

Odaise Gaelach

Don't let him get near the rabbits to begin with! Keep him away from them, for their sakes if nothing else! :mad:

Explain to your stepson that what he's doing is wrong, and only - only - let him play with them again when he learns to treat them properly.

Sigma Force

Omg do not let him anywhere near the rabbits!!
Put a lock on the rabbit run for now if you have to.
He will not just hurt the rabbits if he's allowed near them and to throw them he is going to kill them.

As Odaise said do not let him near the rabbits you can work on his behaviour away from the rabbits for now.

How old is he, can't recommend anything unless we know the age of the child.

Lawrence1895

Sigma Force wrote: »

Omg do not let him anywhere near the rabbits!!
Put a lock on the rabbit run for now if you have to.
He will not just hurt the rabbits if he's allowed near them and to throw them he is going to kill them.

As Odaise said do not let him near the rabbits you can work on his behaviour away from the rabbits for now.

How old is he, can't recommend anything unless we know the age of the child.

He is 9 years of age, 10 next March.

Kept him away from the rabbits already, but I don't really know if he realizes what kind of damage he does to the poor little mites

Justask

Lars1916 wrote: »

He is 9 years of age, 10 next March.

Kept him away from the rabbits already, but I don't really know if he realizes what kind of damage he does to the poor little mites

Im shocked this child is 9 I thought you were going to say 1 or pushing it 2.

Sorry but why i gods name do you have pets if the child is doing this. There is no books out there why because this is not normal!!
:mad:

ppink

Is there anyone in the family like an uncle or such that your stepson thinks a lot of that can talk to him about it?
I noticed with my nieces/nephews they would never listen to their parents too much but there was always a "special" aunt or uncle that would be far more effective.
If he is not doing as you say now he more that likely wont be too concerned about a book you give him either??

Lawrence1895

ppink wrote: »

Is there anyone in the family like an uncle or such that your stepson thinks a lot of that can talk to him about it?
I noticed with my nieces/nephews they would never listen to their parents too much but there was always a "special" aunt or uncle that would be far more effective.
If he is not doing as you say now he more that likely wont be too concerned about a book you give him either??

No, not really...I am the only one in the family (well, apart from my family in Germany, but they all all but fluent in English, so they won't be able to talk to him) who does not say crap like 'It is only an animal'.

It is just heartbreaking to deal with such an attitude...maybe the little one will never change his attitude and will never respect any other life bar a human one

Justask

Lars1916 wrote: »

No, not really...I am the only one in the family (well, apart from my family in Germany, but they all all but fluent in English, so they won't be able to talk to him) who does not say crap like 'It is only an animal'.

It is just heartbreaking to deal with such an attitude...maybe the little one will never change his attitude and will never respect any other life bar a human one

Why not rehome the rabbits for their sake Im sure someone can give them a loving home where they will not be subjected to cruelty

Delancey

I really cannot see what good a book is going to do , I would have expected that ' direction ' from an adult would be a lot more effective OP.

Has the child behavioural problems ? I ask as the natural instinct of most children is to show kindness to animals and I would be very concerned at a child behaving cruelly towards them.

Delancey

Lars1916 wrote: »

It is just heartbreaking to deal with such an attitude...maybe the little one will never change his attitude and will never respect any other life bar a human one

OP , while I am not suggesting that your stepson is a potential serial killer I would remind you that in a previous thread I pointed out that the FBI Psychological Profiling team have made the connection between adult murderers who as children had a history of animal cruelty.
The Moors Murderer Ian Brady was first arrested aged 12 for throwing a cat off a high rise roof , Geoffrey Dahmer in the US was questioned by Police as a child in connection with neighbours pets dissappearing , the list is endless and the link is clear .

Medical advice is not permitted on boards.ie but I would suggest you explore this boys behaviour , I consider it highly unusual and may indicate a deeper issue.

Many American and British Police forces now maintain a database of children involved in animal cruelty so great is the fear of what they may do as adults.

ppink

I do agree that he is not necessarily going to respect humans if he does not respect animals. However this is obviously a common problem as when you type into google "children abusing animals" a load of different things come up which may be of some use to you. I am not professional in that area so have no clue other than try to research and see if you can put a stop to it.
I would also think if I were you if anything has happened in his life to make him want to inflict suffering on a smaller creature in the house.

Sigma Force

Where did he get the idea from that it's ok to treat them like this has he seen other adults treat animals badly? I would seriously think about rehoming them for their own saftey if you can't get to the bottom of the childs issues soon.

This is more of a behavioural thing the child has some issues that need dealing with for him to take his frustrations out on a small helpless animal., a book for him won't help much he needs to relearn how to behave with small creatures and possibly needs to work through whatever issues he is having.

Lawrence1895

Delancey wrote: »

OP , while I am not suggesting that your stepson is a potential serial killer I would remind you that in a previous thread I pointed out that the FBI Psychological Profiling team have made the connection between adult murderers who as children had a history of animal cruelty.
The Moors Murderer Ian Brady was first arrested aged 12 for throwing a cat off a high rise roof , Geoffrey Dahmer in the US was questioned by Police as a child in connection with neighbours pets dissappearing , the list is endless and the link is clear .

Medical advice is not permitted on boards.ie but I would suggest you explore this boys behaviour , I consider it highly unusual and may indicate a deeper issue.

Many American and British Police forces now maintain a database of children involved in animal cruelty so great is the fear of what they may do as adults.

:eek:

Well, there surely is more behind it than just the fact, that he is not aware of the fact, how much he hurts them rabbits...but that would lead to far away from this thread, I suppose.

But still, a 9-year old should well be able to distinguish between a toy and a creature, which has feelings.

Anyway, I still don't think, he hurts them on purpose, it's maybe just a lack of understanding, since I seem to be the first person in his life, who values an animal as much as a human being.

Justask

Lars1916 wrote: »

:eek:

Well, there surely is more behind it than just the fact, that he is not aware of the fact, how much he hurts them rabbits...but that would lead to far away from this thread, I suppose.

But still, a 9-year old should well be able to distinguish between a toy and a creature, which has feelings.

Anyway, I still don't think, he hurts them on purpose, it's maybe just a lack of understanding, since I seem to be the first person in his life, who values an animal as much as a human being.

If you value an animal as much as a human REMOVE the amimals from danger for god sake, it makes no difference if he hurts them on purpose the amimals are in danger and as an adult it is YOUR duty to protect the rabbits. :mad:

Cherry Blossom

OP, If, and only if, you can manage to keep the rabbits under lock and key and can ensure there is no way the child can access them I would try the following:

Get a decent book on rabbit care that you can read with your stepson and try to get him actively involved with the care of the rabbits ie. getting their food ready, washing up food bowls and water-bottles, cleaning them out - all under close supervision and without actual contact with the rabbits themselves. This can then progress to observing their behaviour. The aim being to get him interested in how they live and hopefully instilling the appeal of being responsible to a certain degree for keeping them alive.

Massively Off-topic for this forum but:

The child has learned this behaviour from somewhere though keep in mind the fact that if he is not primarily in your care that there will be limitations as to how much influence you can have over him. Have you discussed this behaviour with both his parents? That's a serious conversation that needs to happen and you need to push the fact that this can progress to other types of anti-social behaviour if not nipped in the bud.

I would also have him assessed for behaviour disorders, it's alarming how common these problems are becoming in children but again that's for a different forum. Does he come into contact with any other animals (cats, dogs etc.) and does he show the same attitude towards them?

I wouldn't under-estimate how much influence the world around them has on kids, they can and do take their cues on how to behave from influences around them, be that other people, tv, computer games etc. . .

My 5 year old niece has announced she's never eating an animal again after a kids story about what animals are eaten by other animals and now has me trawling the net in an effort to find out if a vegetarian diet is appropriate and/or suitable for a 5 year old. :rolleyes:

<ETA> Some people have suggested re-homing the rabbits, probably better for the rabbits but I don't believe this would be good for the child, or any animals he may come in contact with in the future, you'd just be reinforcing his belief that they are of no value.

One more point - some petting zoos/urban farms incorporate a 'class' where kids are taught about the care of the animals etc. I would try contacting some near you and see if they might be willing to combine a visit with a knowledgeable member of staff accompanying you for some education on care, handling animals etc.

ShaShaBear

Agreed as above, a nine-year old boy would have picked this manner of dealing with the rabbits from somewhere. It might seem like a silly question to ask, but I noticed you said Stepson - how do you both get along? Are they your rabbits? How does he generally behave? It would be very unusual for a child to express intentional harm to an animal unless they believed that was the best course of action, likewise that no child will be afraid of any creature unless given reason.

Whispered

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

My 5 year old niece has announced she's never eating an animal again after a kids story about what animals are eaten by other animals and now has me trawling the net in an effort to find out if a vegetarian diet is appropriate and/or suitable for a 5 year old. :rolleyes:

AJ, I know off topic, but it says a lot for your nieces ability to think laterally at such a young age and you should be very proud of her. Not because she's decided to become veggie, but because she's thought of something and decided it was important to her. Most 5 year old toddle along with what everyone else is doing. Obviously an independent thinker (haha she'll prob be very headstrong too when she's older!).

Maybe you could ask in the V&V forum, there are some parents raising veggie kids who could give you tips on making the diet interesting and easy while still making sure she gets everything she needs.

Lawrence1895

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Agreed as above, a nine-year old boy would have picked this manner of dealing with the rabbits from somewhere. It might seem like a silly question to ask, but I noticed you said Stepson - how do you both get along? Are they your rabbits? How does he generally behave? It would be very unusual for a child to express intentional harm to an animal unless they believed that was the best course of action, likewise that no child will be afraid of any creature unless given reason.

It's not a bad relationship, but it could be better in terms of respecting me...but that's a tough one, as long as I'm called names and being laughed at for different (mostly stupid) reasons.

He told me about the rabbits in the pet shop, the OH and I felt pity with them and we brought them home, as they were in a poor condition, eg. a dirty and much too small cage. He says, they are his rabbits, but I have to clean the cage and feed them...but I don't mind that at all.

I would describe him as slightly hyperactive, especially when he is bored...but I don't see any connection between hyperactivity and hurting an animal in the moment

ShaShaBear

Lars1916 wrote: »

It's not a bad relationship, but it could be better in terms of respecting me...but that's a tough one, as long as I'm called names and being laughed at for different (mostly stupid) reasons.

He told me about the rabbits in the pet shop, the OH and I felt pity with them and we brought them home, as they were in a poor condition, eg. a dirty and much too small cage. He says, they are his rabbits, but I have to clean the cage and feed them...but I don't mind that at all.

I would describe him as slightly hyperactive, especially when he is bored...but I don't see any connection between hyperactivity and hurting an animal in the moment

No, but (and I say this with as much generalisation as possible), if he has issues respecting you then he simply isn't going to listen to you as far as the rabbits are concerned, and there is a possibility he is doing it to annoy or upset you, without really understanding the implications on the rabbits themselves. I would agree with other posters - talk to your other half and get those rabbits removed from the child. The last thing anyone would want would be for one of those rabbits to be killed from a shock or your stepson to be seriously harmed when the rabbits have enough. And if he has a temper, a bad bite might be all it takes for things to go one step further.

wolfpawnat

Slightly Off-Topic; Abuse to animals is a common and very noticeable part of the diagnosis of both Psychopaths (like Ed Harris) and Sociopaths (Ted Bundy). There are also other things that attribute to those conditions, and they are not diagnosable in a person under the age of 18 as teenagers are all victims of their own hormones.

Back OT: What I would say is this boy is more than old enough to comprehend the difference between right and wrong, even my 2 year old knows to gently rub our gerbils and shows great amounts of restraint in his interactions with them compared to his interactions with other people.

OP, you need to sit him down and explain that these are living creatures and feel pain exactly as you and I do and are not able to defend themselves, and the harming of them will have SEVERE consequences. Explain that it is a crime to intentionally hurt them and even talk to an animal warden/community garda if needs be.

If the boy tries to harm these animals again, rehome them immediately and severely alter his lifestyle (remove anything fun) until he grasps the severity of his actions. He is not a tiny child any more, regardless of the family's nationality in the EU it is illegal to do these things to these animals and the family should all be behind this!

Justask

Lars1916 wrote: »

He told me about the rabbits in the pet shop, the OH and I felt pity with them and we brought them home, as they were in a poor condition, eg. a dirty and much too small cage. He says, they are his rabbits, but I have to clean the cage and feed them...but I don't mind that at all.

You felt pity for them before and removed them from poor conditions . Why not do the same again They are in worse conditions now :mad:

They may have been in dirty and small cages which is disgusting but now they are in danger of physical harm which is worse :mad::mad:

Lawrence1895

Justask wrote: »

You felt pity for them before and removed them from poor conditions . Why not do the same again They are in worse conditions now :mad:

They may have been in dirty and small cages which is disgusting but now they are in danger of physical harm which is worse :mad::mad:

I don't let him near them again, there is a lock in front of the hutch and I'm hiding the keys to the back garden since yesterday.

And I was able to talk to him a few minutes ago on my own. He is on his last chance...but as it seems to me, he at least realizes what he did

Justask

Lars1916 wrote: »

I don't let him near them again, there is a lock in front of the hutch and I'm hiding the keys to the back garden since yesterday.

And I was able to talk to him a few minutes ago on my own. He is on his last chance...but as it seems to me, he at least realizes what he did

Great to hear they are safe now i dont know how you are living with that situation there is no way I would be able to. Hope it works out for you

Cherry Blossom

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Slightly Off-Topic; Abuse to animals is a common and very noticeable part of the diagnosis of both Psychopaths (like Ed Harris) and Sociopaths (Ted Bundy). There are also other things that attribute to those conditions, and they are not diagnosable in a person under the age of 18 as teenagers are all victims of their own hormones.

Off-topic again but I just have to point out that conditions like these are extremely rare seeing as people seem to be running off with worst case scenario in this thread. OP has said her stepson is hyperactive and of all the behavioural illnesses something like this certainly would be bottom of the list and extremely unlikely. I would have thought ADHD or an autism spectrum disorder would be a more likely cause for people to bring up rather than something so extreme. Why people would compare some 10 year old child they have never met or know anything about other than the fact that the OP has said they are too rough with with their pet rabbits to Ted Bundy is beyond me. Think about what you are saying before you post it please.

By the way, pets are often an invaluable aspect of the treatment for some of these conditions for some kids, it just needs to be done correctly and safely. This is the responsibility of the OP and as far as I can see the purpose of this thread was to ask for advice in how to get this information across to the child.

Lawrence1895

Justask wrote: »

Great to hear they are safe now i dont know how you are living with that situation there is no way I would be able to. Hope it works out for you

The main problem is, I am not at home all the time, I'm working irregular shifts, including night duty (but the keys are with me), so I can't be of a good influence on the child's behavior all the time...but that's another story, more like family related business and counselling, I guess :rolleyes:

Justask

Lars1916 wrote: »

The main problem is, I am not at home all the time, I'm working irregular shifts, including night duty (but the keys are with me), so I can't be of a good influence on the child's behavior all the time...but that's another story, more like family related business and counselling, I guess :rolleyes:

The folk in the parenting forum are very friendly and could help you with those issues

Lawrence1895

Justask wrote: »

The folk in the parenting forum are very friendly and could help you with those issues

Thanks, I will take this advice when the time comes. First of all, I want to see the long term effect of taking the bunnies away from the child. But I hope, he learnt his lesson there and he will never cause any harm to any animal from now on.

littlebug

I think he would be better to spend more time with the rabbits with you there, but with rules around his handling of them, teach him about them and let him see how you handle them, let him get to know the little individual personalities etc.
Also... there is a big difference between rough handling/ not quite getting that such roughness can really hurt the rabbit and deliberately hurting/ torturing/ killing an animal for kicks... with the aforementioned serial killers falling into the latter category. So I really wouldnt get overly concerned about that.

It sounds to me like this is just quite a rough boy with little experience of animals and little guidance on respect and caring for animals. He needs to mature and dampen his tendency to roughhousing and learn more about animals.... as living feeling creatures rather than "things". I don't think any book can give him the understanding that more contact and experience with animals can.

egan2020

I have to say I'm a bit stunned at some posters comparing the child to famous serial killers. I'm well aware of the link between psychopaths and previous torture of animals but it doesn't mean that every child who hurts an animal is going to go on a murdering spree a few years later.

Just wondering has the child had pets previously. I have two children but they have been around animals from the start. I currently have a 5 month old baby. She has started grabbing the dogs hair and pulling it. He doesn't mind but obviously I'm teaching her that she can't do it. The next thing will be the cats and I have no doubt she will receive many scrapes from the cats but she'll simply have to learn the hard way that she can't do it. Worked for my other child. What I'm saying is that children don't automatically know how to treat animals. Just today I had to call the neighbour's child over and tell her to stop her new puppy around like it was a doll.

Lawrence1895

littlebug wrote: »

I think he would be better to spend more time with the rabbits with you there, but with rules around his handling of them, teach him about them and let him see how you handle them, let him get to know the little individual personalities etc.
Also... there is a big difference between rough handling/ not quite getting that such roughness can really hurt the rabbit and deliberately hurting/ torturing/ killing an animal for kicks... with the aforementioned serial killers falling into the latter category. So I really wouldnt get overly concerned about that.

It sounds to me like this is just quite a rough boy with little experience of animals and little guidance on respect and caring for animals. He needs to mature and dampen his tendency to roughhousing and learn more about animals.... as living feeling creatures rather than "things". I don't think any book can give him the understanding that more contact and experience with animals can.

And that is exactly the point, where I might be successful. The OH sees animals as 'things' as well, I am much more calm in my nature...and maybe the book was a bad idea after all. I just mentioned it, because he reads loads of books, and I thought, this might be a possible access point.

Sigma Force

Perhaps books in general about animals in general Willard Price wrote a series of adventour books on various wildlife in various countries (the whale one might be controversial in this day and age but all are worth reading) they aren't specifically to do with animal cruetly but they give a child an insight in to the world of animals.

Perhaps a book on the general care of rabbits as well a book that explains exactly how to handle and care for them, there's usually a few in book shops perhaps have a look through them and see which one would best suit.

It'll do no harm in giving him these types of books to read anyway, any books that involve adventour and animals so he can connect with them.

Here is a link that might help with some book suggestions http://alternativeculture.com/books/animals.htm

Good idea about the parenting forum as well and do have a work with OH as well who really needs to rethink the way she sees animals as well because if her attitude doesn't chance then the kid is just going to copy her behaviour towards them. She doesn't have to be lovey dovey with the rabbits but just at least pretend to show an interest and an air of kindness even just making up little plates of veggies for the rabbits and making a big deal of it in front of the child, saying things like she's gonna treat them to some nice fresh carrots today it's important they are well looked after. Just little comments in passing like that kids pick up on and will copy.

I wouldn't trust him around them yet, in fact probably not for a long time so don't let your guard down and do keep having the occasional chat with him, just mention it now and then so he knows you haven't forgotten and that you are keeping an eye.