The Commute

jonnny68

Maybe the culchies who constantly complain about Dublin can leave their jobs so people from Dublin who cant get jobs can replace them , as i said put up or shut up you cant have it all your own way!

Frowzy

ninja900 wrote: »

Bog-warrior whinge fest. They want their choice of world-class careers, they want them on their doorstep, and they want them now! And it's not as if anyone living in Dublin has ever emigrated... most of the people featured aren't commuters in any sane sense of the word, just emigrants in deep, deep denial.

syklops wrote: »

No one mentioned dubs versus non-dubs until you did.

@ Syklops - that's a bit unfair, Ninja900 did bring it up in fairness.....

markpb wrote: »

Perhaps you knew nobody in Dublin because you went home every evening?

This could be true, but the train ticket at the time was 45 pounds (yes pounds) per week, and I was living at home with Mammy, so I was saving money which I could put into the house and wedding. I've never been into the Dublin scene, I did stay up once or twice for work nights out but Dublin just wasn't for me....... I had just returned home from 3 years working abroad, I didn't want to be away from home again.

Lord Trollington

Some people are talking on this thread about moving to Dublin and the talk is like equating it to moving to an Island in the South Pacific.

There is 1.4million people living in Dublin, most speak English and are very sociable.

Lord Trollington

Frowzy wrote: »

@ Syklops - that's a bit unfair, Ninja900 did bring it up in fairness.....



This could be true, but the train ticket at the time was 45 pounds (yes pounds) per week, and I was living at home with Mammy, so I was saving money which I could put into the house and wedding. I've never been into the Dublin scene, I did stay up once or twice for work nights out but Dublin just wasn't for me....... I had just returned home from 3 years working abroad, I didn't want to be away from home again.

Can someone explain to me what is the "Dublin Scene"?

markpb

Frowzy wrote: »

This could be true, but the train ticket at the time was 45 pounds (yes pounds) per week, and I was living at home with Mammy, so I was saving money which I could put into the house and wedding. I've never been into the Dublin scene, I did stay up once or twice for work nights out but Dublin just wasn't for me....... I had just returned home from 3 years working abroad, I didn't want to be away from home again.

I'm glad it worked out for you unlike some of the people in the TV show but in my opinion, if you travelled up and down every day, only ever went out with work people and never spent any time in Dublin at all, you're not really in a position to say that Dublin isn't for you. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just that you didn't give it a chance at all.

It's the same with the midwife in the show - she hates London, hates the lack of life, hates being by herself when off-duty and feels sorry for the couple she met who had emigrated there and were settling down. And yet, they're doing the very thing that has a chance of fixing some of her problems. Fair enough, in her case moving a large family would be prohibitively disruptive but you can't ignore where you live and then say you don't like it.

jonnny68

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Some people are talking on this thread about moving to Dublin and the talk is like equating it to moving to an Island in the South Pacific.

There is 1.4million people living in Dublin, most speak English and are very sociable.

precisely, and many too are unemployed whilst certain culchies commute every day and then have the audacity to whinge and moan and slate Dublin at every given opportunity this is what gets on my nerves, ive no problem with anyone from anywhere working in my city but if your gonna whinge and moan all the time about it then do one!!

BIRDCAGE1

syklops wrote: »

The guy who commutes to dublin from limerick everyday. Why not get digs in dublin? The money you would spend on trains alone. Why wouldn't you just move up to Dublin? He has been doing it for 3 years. Thats nuts!

....This guys wife had a job in Limerick, which was the reason that they had moved back there from Dublin + he has a kid in Limerick. I can imagine trying to make that decision to commute or move back,.... yes it would probably work out better if he just got digs in Dublin or something, but then he only gets to see his kid at the weekends.

Frowzy

jonnny68 wrote: »

as for that programme, whilst i have every sympathy with people especially with families (i can relate to that) i cant be dealing with "culchie elitists" they'll gladly work in Dublin but generally hate the place and want to live in their own little backwater and constantly complain about the daily commute,well you cant have it all your own way your lucky to have a job so put up or stay on the dole.

jonnny68 wrote: »

Maybe the culchies who constantly complain about Dublin can leave their jobs so people from Dublin who cant get jobs can replace them , as i said put up or shut up you cant have it all your own way!

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Some people are talking on this thread about moving to Dublin and the talk is like equating it to moving to an Island in the South Pacific.

There is 1.4million people living in Dublin, most speak English and are very sociable.

While I take all your points, in fairness not everybody wants to live in Dublin, that isn't necessarily a diss to Dublin or anyone living there. Some people have no choice as to where they work, but they can choose where they live.

I guess it's a pity that there aren't more jobs outside the greater Dublin area. Would it be possible for the whole population to move to Dublin?

markpb

BIRDCAGE1 wrote: »

....This guys wife had a job in Limerick, which was the reason that they had moved back there from Dublin + he has a kid in Limerick. I can imagine trying to make that decision to commute or move back,.... yes it would probably work out better if he just got digs in Dublin or something, but then he only gets to see his kid at the weekends.

What about moving the kid to Dublin so (s)he could spend time with its father?

Frowzy wrote: »

While I take all your points, in fairness not everybody wants to live in Dublin, that isn't necessarily a diss to Dublin or anyone living there. Some people have no choice as to where they work, but they can choose where they live. I guess it's a pity that there aren't more jobs outside the greater Dublin area. Would it be possible for the whole population to move to Dublin?

Like it or not, the vast majority of jobs in most developed countries are in cities. Of course people have a choice where to live but you can't live in a rural location and expect jobs to be created there - it just doesn't happen. That's not to say that all the jobs will (or should) be in Dublin - Cork, Limerick and Galway are reasonably big too.

jonnny68

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what is the "Dublin Scene"?

a bit different from some backwater culchie town where everyone knows everyones business and gossip is the order of the day every day, jaysus i could think of nothing worse than living somewhere like that.:eek:

Frowzy

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what is the "Dublin Scene"?

lol.... fair point, I worked with people who considered themselves "professionals" and wouldn't have been caught dead propping up a bar from a high stool! Wasn't into the whole drinks in a cocktail bar after work thing!! (I realise I shouldn't generalise - apologies)

jonnny68 wrote: »

precisely, and many too are unemployed whilst certain culchies commute every day and then have the audacity to whinge and moan and slate Dublin at every given opportunity this is what gets on my nerves, ive no problem with anyone from anywhere working in my city but if your gonna whinge and moan all the time about it then do one!!

don't think this even deserves a response.......

Lord Trollington

jonnny68 wrote: »

precisely, and many too are unemployed whilst certain culchies commute every day and then have the audacity to whinge and moan and slate Dublin at every given opportunity this is what gets on my nerves, ive no problem with anyone from anywhere working in my city but if your gonna whinge and moan all the time about it then do one!!

I will state I'm not from Dublin. I don't live there.

But If i had to I would in the morning, no problem. I love the place. Fantastic city with some nice quiet suburbs.

syklops

Frowzy wrote: »

@ Syklops - that's a bit unfair, Ninja900 did bring it up in fairness.....



This could be true, but the train ticket at the time was 45 pounds (yes pounds) per week, and I was living at home with Mammy, so I was saving money which I could put into the house and wedding. I've never been into the Dublin scene, I did stay up once or twice for work nights out but Dublin just wasn't for me....... I had just returned home from 3 years working abroad, I didn't want to be away from home again.

Ninja900 didn't bring it up as a subject, he just called the programme a bog-warrior whinge-fest.

I've never been into the *Dublin scene*,

By *Dublin scene*, do you mean the 'pub'? Thats the only scene I was involved in in Dublin.

jonnny68

Frowzy wrote: »

lol.... fair point, I worked with people who considered themselves "professionals" and wouldn't have been caught dead propping up a bar from a high stool! Wasn't into the whole drinks in a cocktail bar after work thing!! (I realise I shouldn't generalise - apologies)



don't think this even deserves a response.......

why not what im saying is true, as i said previously ive no problem whatsoever with anyone from anywhere working in Dublin, if they choose not to live in Dublin and commute from wherever every day then that is their prerogative, however when they start their whinging and moaning about the "grind of the daily commute" what are we supposed to say "oh sorry about that mate yeah we have every sympathy with you" i don't think so, either move to Dublin and go home every weekend if you wish or zip it.

last post on the subject...........

Frowzy

syklops wrote: »

Ninja900 didn't bring it up as a subject, he just called the programme a bog-warrior whinge-fest.

Oh! excusez moi! perhaps you could explain what a bog-warrior is then?
I was assuming he was classifying non-Dublin residents........

syklops wrote: »

By *Dublin scene*, do you mean the 'pub'? Thats the only scene I was involved in in Dublin.

explained below (SIGH)

Frowzy

jonnny68 wrote: »

last post on the subject...........

There is a God

I know a lad that travels back to the UK every weekend, his family moved here briefly but they didnt like it and he has a good job on big money so he said he will do it while its worth his while financially, he would be on much lower wages in the uk in an equivalent job. He is not actually here every week but he is always travelling somewhere in Europe for meeting etc.

Another guy I work with commuted back to the Netherlands almost every weekend for over a year, though he works from home mostly now and comes in for a few days every now and then.

Funny thing is they are nearly home as quick as it takes me to drive home to Galway from Cork although I usually only do it every second weekend unless there is something on, which there has been for the last 3 weeks in a row.

Lord Trollington

Frowzy wrote: »

lol.... fair point, I worked with people who considered themselves "professionals" and wouldn't have been caught dead propping up a bar from a high stool! Wasn't into the whole drinks in a cocktail bar after work thing!! (I realise I shouldn't generalise - apologies).

To be fair, the Dublin scene doesn't involve Cocktails and Tapas.

The Dublin scene is whatever you want it to be. You can drink cocktails if you wish, or you can go around Coppers before close drinking what's left in near empty glasses. Its up to yourself really.

There is a fundamental difference to I can't live in Dublin and I refuse to live in Dublin.

ImARebel

I'm a commuter and while it's not as far as London, it's heartbreaking none the less only getting to spend an hour with my daughter in the evening is killing me

We couldn't afford to buy in Dublin during the boom, we bought down the country and at the time were happy to make the sacrifice to own our own place, it was just the two of us and the pressures were different. There was never a plan to stay here full time but then the arse fell out of the market and here we are, stuck...

Now you could say it's our own fault, maybe so. But what sort of a price should we be expected to pay?

We are miserable, we have no life, my husband lost his job a few months into moving down there and there is now no hope of getting out. We're living in a town we hate, where we know no one, have no family, no ties to the place, nothing at all, we feel there are just no prospects, no chance of getting out.

The house is worth less than half of what we paid.

We will accept that debt, we will continue to pay it, but if only there was a way we could move back to dublin but with him not working and now having a baby to support, there aren't many options.

We are considering just moving back to Dublin and renting, plus trying to cover the cost of renting the place down the country (it won't make the full mortgage), we can't sell it as there are no houses selling in the estate.

it's one of those decisions, move back to dublin, have a life again, but then if your back is to the wall, will we even have a quality of life?

all I know as the winter sets in, it's another battle beginning trying to commute to dublin it's already getting me down and the snow and ice haven't even arrived yet.

I think the 2 of us will end up being treated for depression before next year is over if we continue on like this

and to the girl that is happy to only see her baby for an hour in the evening, take it from a mother that's been there, you can detach yourself and tell yourself you're doing it for her best etc but it's only as she get's older that you realise those first few years are so precious and time you will never get back again. It's only then you will have the regrets that I have...

I feel so guilty for making a decision to buy when we did, where we did, we thought we were making the right decision for our future and more importantly our baby's future, but we couldn't have got it more wrong

it's a bitter pill to swallow, but that's life I suppose

I'm not looking for sympathy, just telling it like it is. It's a decision we'll have to live with, but what's killing me is we didn't even live it up in the boom at least you could say we're paying the price for living the high life

we made a bad decision at a very bad time and there appears to be no way back from it unless we throw the keys in the letterbox and emigrate

southsiderosie

Frowzy wrote: »

Plain and simple fact is that there isn't enough jobs outside Dublin, but surely everyone can't move to Dublin?

Frowzy wrote: »

While I take all your points, in fairness not everybody wants to live in Dublin, that isn't necessarily a diss to Dublin or anyone living there. Some people have no choice as to where they work, but they can choose where they live.

I guess it's a pity that there aren't more jobs outside the greater Dublin area. Would it be possible for the whole population to move to Dublin?

Ireland has just over 4 million people. That is less than the population of Greater Madrid.

FAR more people could live in Dublin than currently do, but it would require 1) more high-density development, 2) a willingness to live in said high-density development, and 3) a far better rapid transit system and/or much stricter restrictions on driving.

The resistance to urbanization, and in particular to smart urban growth in Ireland is really surprising, especially from a non-Irish perspective.

Cherryfizz

Ideally we would all get the job we want in the location we want but we dont live in an ideal world! We have to suck it up and just get on with it. There really seems to be a sense of entitlement in our culture that we need to build a bridge and get over it! The teacher coming home every weekend, I assume the GAA is paying his fare and been a Maths Teacher there are jobs, ok not permanent straight away. He needs to get his foot inside the door of a School first even if part-time. Principals love GAA heads that can train school teams! The builder living in London I felt some sympathy at the start until I saw the car that he said was worth a grand or two abandoned on the land he inherited. If he wanted to get home more and see his daughter more, sell the car or even the land, pure and simple! If I was stuck for money and I had an abandoned car somewhere that was mine it would be sold well before now. By the way he is in denial he is an emigrant and not a commuter! Fair play to the woman that went back as a mature student to college and trained as a mid-wife but since its a niche job sector you have to go where the jobs are. When I left School most of the girls had to go the UK to train as nurses. That was the way it was and they just had to get on with it! Some were then able to come home after afew years to get jobs here. Just because you a mature married woman with children doesnt make you immune to the lack of jobs! Ask anyone from the West or North West and all of them will tell you about the lack of jobs over there. OK you want your nice house built where you grew up but its not the movies its reality. I visited the locality where the Donegal couple built their house. Beautiful yes but there is nothing there so why are they surprised they have to get a job somewhere else! Companies dont locate in the middle of nowhere! We cant always get what we want in this life!

syklops

Frowzy wrote: »

Oh! excusez moi! perhaps you could explain what a bog-warrior is then?
I was assuming he was classifying non-Dublin residents........




explained below (SIGH)

I refuse to get pulled into the ridiculous dub/non-dub/anti-dub/pro-dub argument. I was born 'down the country' moved to Dublin at 19, emmigrated to Central Europe at 25. I love being at home, and I love Dublin. Why does it have to be either or?

I assume a bog warrior is someone like me, but you would have to ask him, what he meant.

Kerrydude1981

Just watched the programme on the RTE player,not surprised they covered a GAA player,its happening alot fellas now,leaving to work in London and coming at home at weekends to play for their clubs or in that lads case his county,I admire these people that do choose to commute its must be a very hard choice to make,but if you have a wife and kids to support and a mortgage to pay these people have no other choice.

cournioni

markpb wrote: »

Quality of life includes time spent relaxing, not time spent on a train or driving. The longer you commute, the lower your quality of life (coming from someone who used to commute 3 hours a day). The more dependency you have on long distance commuting, the more susceptible you are to problems like road closures, floods, traffic, etc. I gave up my commute and now live a 30 minute walk, 15 minute cycle or 10 minutes on the Luas to work. I leaves me with 3+ hours a day more to spend with my family.

A monthly ticket from Dundalk to Dublin is €267.00 assuming you're not travelling any futher by train or on any other form of transport. Parking is another €30 per month so that's almost €300 a month just to get to the city centre. Houses in Dundalk are between 500-700 a month so there's not much difference between Dundalk plus travelling costs and renting in Dublin.

Of course, if you dislike Dublin (having actually lived in it) and want to live in Dundalk, that's fair enough.

Quality of life is time spent in a place that you actually enjoy. Besides, it only takes an hour (sometimes less) to get from Dundalk to Dublin. A ten trip ticket with Matthews is €50 so it is €200 a month on the nose. It would take one hour to get to alot of places in Dublin with public transport some days. Last winter it was taking people hours and hours to get home in Dublin. She was home bang on time with the train each time.

She lived in Dublin for three years and hated it. IMO, if you can only afford a crappy apartment in Dublin, but it can get you a nice place an hour away. Go for the one an hour away every time.

My commute is 45 mins each way from where I am as I have both work and college, I don't find my quality of living any worse off than the 4 minute commute I used to have.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

southsiderosie wrote: »

Ireland has just over 4 million people. That is less than the population of Greater Madrid.

FAR more people could live in Dublin than currently do, but it would require 1) more high-density development, 2) a willingness to live in said high-density development, and 3) a far better rapid transit system and/or much stricter restrictions on driving.

The resistance to urbanization, and in particular to smart urban growth in Ireland is really surprising, especially from a non-Irish perspective.

To be honest, if Dublin was to be further developed to cope with a population of, say, 2.5 million people, we'd have to go back to basics first. As you point out, rapid transit would need to be developed to a mugh higher standard. However, the city has been ruined over the past 15 years through lack of investment in basic infrastructure and the fact that every little piece of available land seemed to have been developed. You saw what a few hours of heavy rain led to.

Dublin, albeit on a much smaller scale, suffers from similiar problems to Los Angeles. The desire for low-density semi-detached housing has led to chaotic urban sprawl which feeds the congestion and over-reliance on cars. The mentality here won't change quickly enough to save the city from itself.

HavingCrack

southsiderosie wrote: »

Ireland has just over 4 million people. That is less than the population of Greater Madrid.

FAR more people could live in Dublin than currently do, but it would require 1) more high-density development, 2) a willingness to live in said high-density development, and 3) a far better rapid transit system and/or much stricter restrictions on driving.

The resistance to urbanization, and in particular to smart urban growth in Ireland is really surprising, especially from a non-Irish perspective.

Dublin is actually a very unusual case from an urbanisation perspective, in fact you can probably call it unique. It's the only city that I know of that you can really call a mono-polycentric city. It blends a large urban sprawl with a high enough inner city population (for a city that has urban sprawl if this makes sense, a lot of American cities have lost their core). It combines a relatviely efficent public transportation service via bus, rail and light rail in addition to cycling and heavy private car use. It's very unusual. If you can imagine a cross between Houston and Amsterdam, Dublin would probably be a fair example.

In Transportation Planning and Urban Geography Dublin is a regular case study as a result.

Abi

syklops wrote: »

You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder, yourself. No one mentioned dubs versus non-dubs until you did.

Until I did? well it came from ignorant posts like this, if you must know.

syklops wrote: »

Why cant you move to Dublin?

And exactly how do I have the chip on my shoulder when I'm saying nobody should be telling anyone to relocate, regardless of where they're from?








.

Old_-_School

Frowzy wrote: »

I did "The Commute" a few year ago, well in 1997/1998 to be exact (SHAME!)

On the train to the BIG Schmoke at 6.20am, into Heuston, hit the ground running to get the first bus (no luas then) up the quays and run over to College Green, phew...

home again at 8 that evening.....

I didn't have kids at the time, couldn't have done it if I had, but I didn't consider moving to Dublin because I knew absolutely nobody there (still don't).

That sounds crazy to me. Like a lot of people, I knew nobody when I moved to Dublin first. I moved in with 3 strangers in a houseshare through an ad in the Herald. We went out for drinks regularly and I became good friends with them and their circle of friends. Same happened with work. Joined a 5-a-side kickaround and met a few friends that way as well. Using the excuse "I knew absolutely nobody there" is nonsense. You make friends if you put in a small bit of effort.. I knew one guy who went home absolutely every weekend and complained about not having friends in Dublin. Of course you'll have no friends if you go home every weekend.

One aspect of commuting I never could understand is the spending the Sunday night at home and driving up on Monday morning even though it takes an hour and a half longer. I'm not talking about spending it with the missus or the kids, I'm talking about spending it at home with the folks and a sibling or two. How anyone could prefer that than to travel up Sunday evening/night and be well rested Monday morning rather than spend the day yawning is beyond me. Now, if it was the playboy mansion I'd say go for it alright!

Frowzy

southsiderosie wrote: »

Ireland has just over 4 million people. That is less than the population of Greater Madrid.

FAR more people could live in Dublin than currently do, but it would require 1) more high-density development, 2) a willingness to live in said high-density development, and 3) a far better rapid transit system and/or much stricter restrictions on driving.

The resistance to urbanization, and in particular to smart urban growth in Ireland is really surprising, especially from a non-Irish perspective.

.... And I'm assuming a bigger water supply? So you don't have to come cap in hand to us bog warriors / backwater culchies in Tipperary (as is happening now).

Actually, if Dubliners haven't enough water and have to beg Tipp Co Co for some perhaps you should all move to Tipperary....

southsiderosie

Frowzy wrote: »

.... And I'm assuming a bigger water supply? So you don't have to come cap in hand to us bog warriors / backwater culchies in Tipperary (as is happening now).

Actually, if Dubliners haven't enough water and have to beg Tipp Co Co for some perhaps you should all move to Tipperary....

If large companies were headquartered in Tipperary, then people would move there. However, Dublin is the economic engine of the country,and the most important area for employment, particularly in highly skilled industries. So just as the region uses a disproportionate share of resources, it generates a disproportionate share of the nation's wealth.

And, yes, the water needs to go where the people are. As an aside, agriculture and industry use far more water than residences do. It would help if the government spent some of the boom money on upgrading the antiquated pipe system, but oh well.

Honestly, from some of the comments I read on boards, you would think that people would rather go back to the 1940s, when the vast majority of the population lived in rural areas, and Ireland was one of the poorest countries in the Western world. I am not from Ireland, and I honestly don't understand why non-Dubs are always whinging about the city - that's where most of the true economic growth over the last two decades came from. Building houses in far-flung exurbs was an exercise in unsustainable lunacy.

Frowzy

Old_-_School wrote: »

That sounds crazy to me. Like a lot of people, I knew nobody when I moved to Dublin first. I moved in with 3 strangers in a houseshare through an ad in the Herald. We went out for drinks regularly and I became good friends with them and their circle of friends. Same happened with work. Joined a 5-a-side kickaround and met a few friends that way as well. Using the excuse "I knew absolutely nobody there" is nonsense. You make friends if you put in a small bit of effort..

Delighted for you......
..... I don't play soccer tho

I didn't want to live in Dublin, I spent 3 years away, I wanted to move home... Not to Dublin, what part of that is so hard to understand?

Frowzy

southsiderosie wrote: »

Honestly, from some of the comments I read on boards, you would think that people would rather go back to the 1940s, when the vast majority of the population lived in rural areas, and Ireland was one of the poorest countries in the Western world. I am not from Ireland, and I honestly don't understand why non-Dubs are always whinging about the city - that's where most of the true economic growth over the last two decades came from. Building houses in far-flung exurbs was an exercise in unsustainable lunacy.

Rubbish....
I didn't whinge about the city or put it down, I simply stated that I don't want to live there, I find it interesting that people who live in, or think that people should move there, result to using derogatory terms to refer to non-Dublin people or places.....

mossyc123

southsiderosie wrote: »

Honestly, from some of the comments I read on boards, you would think that people would rather go back to the 1940s, when the vast majority of the population lived in rural areas, and Ireland was one of the poorest countries in the Western world. I am not from Ireland, and I honestly don't understand why non-Dubs are always whinging about the city - that's where most of the true economic growth over the last two decades came from. Building houses in far-flung exurbs was an exercise in unsustainable lunacy.

Proof?

AFAIK it wasn't until the 1950's that we fell behind Western Europe and stayed there until the 1980's.

The poor economic situation Ireland was in during those 40 or so years was down to a number of factors.

Large workforces on the land as opposed to in factories wasn't ideal, but at least we got a few quid from Agri while Dublin provided what exactly during those years apart from Guinness?!

Dublin was the driver of the last 20 years with the IFSC, etc but there were/are many MNC's outside the Capital aswell... Intel, Pfizer, HP... it's not all Bog and Building Sites y'know!

southsiderosie

Frowzy wrote: »

Rubbish....
I didn't whinge about the city or put it down, I simply stated that I don't want to live there, I find it interesting that people who live in, or think that people should move there, result to using derogatory terms to refer to non-Dublin people or places.....

When did I say that you did?

fran oconnor

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what is the "Dublin Scene"?

Taking Drugs, beating people up and robbing :rolleyes:, its an ok place to come to work, but lord above don't bring your kids up in it eh.

bonzos

Dont see what the why such a big deal is being made about this programme.....John O'Donoghue had to fly over to Paris on a regular basis on "business" and Mary Harney(and hubby FAS Brian) had to fly to NZ for 17 days in search of work.She also had to fly to the super bowl on business,this has being going on for years. Both these people are now among our countrys 440k+ unemployed:rolleyes:

Frowzy

southsiderosie wrote: »

I honestly don't understand why non-Dubs are always whinging about the city.

southsiderosie wrote: »

When did I say that you did?

When did I say you said I did

I'm a "Non Dub", if not me who were you talking about?

southsiderosie

mossyc123 wrote: »

Proof?

AFAIK it wasn't until the 1950's that we fell behind Western Europe and stayed there until the 1980's.

The poor economic situation Ireland was in during those 40 or so years was down to a number of factors.

Large workforces on the land as opposed to in factories wasn't ideal, but at least we got a few quid from Agri while Dublin provided what exactly during those years apart from Guinness?!

Dublin was the driver of the last 20 years with the IFSC, etc but there were/are many MNC's outside the Capital aswell.

Yes, piss off Google and Facebook. Let's all return to the magical era where large families, grinding rural poverty, and mass emigration were the norm.

mossyc123

southsiderosie wrote: »

Yes, piss off Google and Facebook. Let's all return to the magical era where large families, grinding rural poverty, and mass emigration were the norm.

Glad you mentioned them.
Live near the EMEA's of those 2 and often wonder why every single employee of them that I meet seems to be from another EU country.
Would be surprised if even a majority of the employees were Irish.
Ultimately that means that the wages and benefits they pay don't all stay in the country. Not ideal.

Then there is the Tax Haven issue.
How much does the exchequer get from them again?

Better then a nothin says you and your right.
They do look nice on the CV of Ireland Inc, but it isn't and won't be the saviour of us.

Developing high quality Agri products, Tourism and indigenous tech exporters will be of more benefit to us in the long run.

As for your hellish description of rural life in Ireland in the past, I think you've been watching too much misery revisionism on RTE.

I come from a large rural family.

Comfortable house, huge garden, nice area... all paid off on a middle management single income over a 20 year mortgage.

God, I hope we never return to that hellish past

Abi

Frowzy wrote: »

I simply stated that I don't want to live there, I find it interesting that people who live in, or think that people should move there

It's an ignorant attitude. At this stage, quite a bit of my family have moved to more rural areas in both Ireland and England, and while there is a commute for them to get to work or the nearest town, they have never been happier. I live barely just inside Dublin in a little village area, and I'd be gone too if my circumstances weren't complicated.

Dubliners taking the attitude that the non-Dub's have to move to Dublin or shut up about it makes my blood boil.




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southsiderosie

mossyc123 wrote: »

Glad you mentioned them.
Live near the EMEA's of those 2 and often wonder why every single employee of them that I meet seems to be from another EU country.
Would be surprised if even a majority of the employees were Irish.
Ultimately that means that the wages and benefits they pay don't all stay in the country. Not ideal.

Then there is the Tax Haven issue.
How much does the exchequer get from them again?

Better then a nothin says you and your right.
They do look nice on the CV of Ireland Inc, but it isn't and won't be the saviour of us.

Developing high quality Agri products, Tourism and indigenous tech exporters will be of more benefit to us in the long run.

As for your hellish description of rural life in Ireland in the past, I think you've been watching too much misery revisionism on RTE.

I come from a large rural family.

Comfortable house, huge garden, nice area... all paid off on a middle management single income over a 20 year mortgage.

God, I hope we never return to that hellish past

As a non-EU citizen who worked in Ireland, the vast majority of my wages were spent in the country. I paid grossly inflated rent, I bought overpriced groceries, I drank a lot, and I used public transport. And I still had to pay taxes in my home country.

As the great-granddaughter of someone who left rural Ireland, all I can say is that the depopulation of the West speaks for itself.

Ireland lagged far behind the rest of Western Europe (with the possible exception of Portugal) for most of the 20th century. The fact that foreigners would not only want, but would be able to work in Ireland says a lot about how far it has come economically.

DEFTLEFTHAND

bonzos wrote: »

Dont see what the why such a big deal is being made about this programme.....John O'Donoghue had to fly over to Paris on a regular basis on "business" and Mary Harney(and hubby FAS Brian) had to fly to NZ for 17 days in search of work.She also had to fly to the super bowl on business,this has being going on for years. Both these people are now among our countrys 440k+ unemployed:rolleyes:

Don't forget that bloody President of ours using the Government jet for internal flights.

flash1080

I'm working in the UK at the moment, go home most weekends. Totally worth it.

mossyc123

flash1080 wrote: »

I'm working in the UK at the moment, go home most weekends. Totally worth it.

You'll never get a poignant RTE Documentary made about you with that attitude :pac:

Storminateacup

ImARebel wrote: »

and to the girl that is happy to only see her baby for an hour in the evening, take it from a mother that's been there, you can detach yourself and tell yourself you're doing it for her best etc but it's only as she get's older that you realise those first few years are so precious and time you will never get back again. It's only then you will have the regrets that I have.

I am not happy seeing my little girl for an hour a day. It breaks my heart leaving her in the mornings and knowing I'm missing out all day. Ideally, Id spend all day with her. But, it's just not an option.

At the moment - Im working insane hours a day so as I can build a future for all of us. I'm gaining invaluable experience, experience that isn't available to me in my own town. I'm hoping to open my own business working in my own town, in the near future. I simply cannot afford to be a stay at home mother and I would crawl over broken glass for my child, rather than have her grow up on social welfare.

It's not easy and it's heartbreaking feeling like you're missing out, but I have to
do it. I'm a listtle ipset that people think this makes me a bad
mother, but I'm doing what I feel is best for her.

I Want her surrounded by her family - people who love her, and not just tossed into a crèche with someone who has 10 other kids to watch.
I want her to grow up with her cousins, have a safe place to play, and when she gets older, a safer place to be at night time.

It's just not an option to move to Dublin. It's still going to mean I'll be gone at least 11 hours a day. Again, I hope it's short term.

Whispered

Storminateacup, I was born in the mid 80's, my dad would be gone from 6am - 10pm. He did this so we would have food to eat, shoes for school etc. My overriding memory of my dad at a young age was hiding behind the couch on a Saturday when I was 4 years old because I was shy.

I understand he had to do it and I have so much respect for him for doing it. I'm now married and whenever my husband and father go for a drink together my poor Dad tells him how he never saw me as a child and missed me growing up. It's a huge regret and it upsets me terribly. He feels guilty for doing something he had to do.

I don't know what my point is really, I suppose I just wanted to say how much I respect my dad for doing what he did and I'm sure your daughter will feel the same when she's older. I hope your sacrifices are all worth it.

Yahew

filthymcnasty wrote: »

This daft programme had something of an identity crisis: the people featured living abroad are essentially emigrants, not commuters.
Anyone foolish enough to fly back to Ireland each week to play for a hurling team needs their head examined.
The midwife from Cork- well its just too bad theres no maternity hospital in her back yard to work in. People have migrated towards work since time immemorial, sadly its not the other way round.

Man up: our forefathers have been emigrating for generations and were lucky to get back from the UK once a year- those in the US and further afield were lucky to come back at all. Thats not to say our diaspora should only come back once a year, but a bit of perspective is needed here.

The guy flying home every weekend is being entirely rational. His life is no different from a London banker who has a place in the Cotswolds, and travels there every weekend. In fact the journey might be cheaper and take less time. The other cost is housing over there. He may have two mortgages, or one mortgage and pay rent, or his house in Ireland might be paid off ( in which case the cost - bar travel, which is cheap - is no different from someone who has moved indefinitely).

Travelling distances to London from within England is quite common. I travel from a nicer city about 2-3 days a week, which necessitates sleeping there 1-2 times a week, which is hardly killing me. Many londoners take 2 hours to get to work, I walk when I am there since I can choose where to live ( costs can be written off against tax). Plenty of people travel to London from Edinburgh, or Glasgow. Or Newcastle to work a few days a week, nothing different from Dublin.

Thats a bit different from travelling 4 hours a day, right enough. I wouldn't call that sane. However:

The Dubliners on here are anti-commuting when it suits them. Move closer to work, they say. Except, not really. The logic of the anti-commuting position is that you live close to work within Dublin - i.e. always rent, or sell up to move when a job presents itself Except people don't do that, do they? ( Born in Southside, die in the Southside).

And there is a new motorway network. Getting to somewhere on the M50 might be quicker from Thurles, than getting across Dublin. Similarly a fast train from Tipperary might get to work close to Heuston ( or the IFSC) as fast as someone from Blanch on a busy morning. Train to Heuston - Luas to the IFSC.

So why don't Dubliners move within Dublin?

I've only seen a bit of the programme as I'm busy, but I don't get whining about commutes. If you want/need to work in a city, then bloody move there. I'm from the middle of nowhere, my parents still live there. I haven't lived there since I was 18 because there's nothing there for me. I worked in Dublin, abroad and now I work in London. I go home two or three times a year and the rest of the time, I rent a flat here like a normal person. I don't really like London, I'd much prefer to live somewhere quieter, but I'm not prepared to commute from the arse end of nowhere on an overcrowded commuter train. I miss my family, but I'm not prepared to go home every weekend. I just made a new life and found new friends here in London, like most people do. Why would I cling on to my old life?

It seems to me that most of these people, like the guy who went home to play hurling, were making a choice, and not a very logical one at that. Fair enough, horses for courses, but it's ridiculous to whine about it.

NIMAN

For me the guy coming home to play hurling should not have featured in the programme, and probably only got in cos he is the Capt on his county hurling team.

He has a good job in London, and seemed to have no children or girlfriend to miss when he was at work. His only reason for commuting was to play sport. Thats hardly the same as the rest of the folk who were leaving family behind to go to work, seeing children for an hour a day, only at weekends etc.

I felt sorry for most of them, but not him tbh.

I travel 30min each way to my work, I now feel so happy that its so short.

CatFromHue

In my opinion commuting to work is your daily time travelled. If you move to London and travel back on the weekend that's moving abroad for work, not commuting.

I currently have the option of getting the DART to work which takes about 2.40 to 3hrs a day, or driving which takes about 1.50 to 2.10 hours a day.

I long for when I used to cycle to work, about 50mins commute, or when I worked in Shannon which was about 50 mins also commute.

When I get home from work I'm frustrated and tired but I wouldn't be like this when I actually walk out of my work building. It's the sitting in traffic and interacting with my fellow motorists that does this to me.

Ultimately this isn't the life I want to live.